CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #6

[aggiekel2005]

The no trace is important here. Not 1 but 2 small children and no trace of a diaper smell by a dog, footprints, clothes, toys, snacks, body or anything at all. Not impossible but dang close.

And the police aren’t using cadaver dogs in the woods. I go back to that

This is the part I can't get past and makes me feel very confident that they did not wander off alone.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I haven't thought they "wandered from home" since I first saw this thread title and caught up on the basics, nor since following this case and more details being revealed.

It could be because my brain is thinking statistically, what the chances are a 6 & 4 year old in good health and never having wandered off their property before AFAIK would do so for unknown reasons.

Other than their mom apparently called them into school sick that day, and maybe they were bored and felt at a loss for what to do with their day off (if not actually too sick to get out of bed).

Though it seems pretty early and cool out for them undertaking an adventure or running away from home, at that point in the day.

Again, never having done this before AFAIK.

It would be interesting to hear from their mom what the illnesses or reasons were for calling them in sick, or if she was not feeling well and/or just didn't have the energy to get up and get them ready for school, so called them in sick.

I remember doing that a few times when I had young kids, calling their school on a day that we were all just needing a day at home and saying they're not coming in today. In fact, I don't think I even had to say they were sick or with what, just they were going to be absent.

I wonder if that (going to be absent) was all she said, and it's been lost in translation.

As to what happened to cause them to disappear, I'm leaning towards them having been spirited away by someone versus the wandered from home hypothesis their parents could only guess at when they spotted the piece of Lilly's blanket & maybe a child-sized bootprint.

JMO

 

[thelesis]

According to the information that’s been communicated with the general public, there’s absolutely no reason for the children to even be missing. Yet here we are.

So what’s your best theory?

I'm about 75% death by misadventure, 25% accident by neglect one or both parents are covering up.

I think most people severely underestimate how hard it can be to find someone, especially a child, in dense brush. And they also underestimate how far kids can move on their own. Kids aren't rational or logical, they do things adults would find odd, so I'm reluctant to trust in any 'kids would never do X!'. Maybe if I have some free time I should do some research to see if anyone has done any studies on child behavior in rural survival situations!

Now that I'm thinking about it, I wonder if there are any old septic tanks and wells in the area, but SAR would have covered those.

I'm also open to the idea that someone on the property may have left some substances around that the kids got into, or an ATV accident, or something similar.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I think given the possibilities:

- wandered off
- kidnapped by a random stranger
- disappeared (and safe) by a family member
- killed & hidden by someone

None of them really sound believable to me except the idea they really did head into the woods, went too far & met with tragic circumstances. I'd much rather learn they're safe somewhere, but that sounds more like a straight to streaming movie than real life.

 

[su5ie]

Police fear Little Emile's body could have been stored in a FREEZER

Analyses of bones found near a river in the sleepy French hamlet of Haut Vernet early last year suggest they had moved before they were discovered

www.dailymail.co.uk

I've been thinking about Èmile's disappearance and similarities between the two cases . Only now is it transpiring that he was allegedly murdered . It did take a long time for msm to report any inklings of homicide, I had always believed up to that point that he wandered off and got lost in a similar manner to lilly and jack .

My feeling on a couple of theories doing the rounds at the moment whether on SM , MSM or from the very few locals who have spoken to the media is that there is an element of conspiracy to them .

But these conspiracies didn't imo just spout out of now where in people's minds. And I've been trying to work out where each stems from and how they may have grown legs . And why is it that this case is not being taken at face value and the kids did just wander into the woods and got lost

Grant it I can see the parents being viewed in a negative light as neglectful because two assumed special needs children were left unsupervised while they slept in and we have Daniels statement saying they were told to be quiet and I'm speculating here ,to allow meadow to sleep with mum and stepdad . But does that warrant the abuse and amount of conspiracy that surrounds this case ??

I'm just going to list a number of theories that seem to be doing the rounds just as an exercise in where they may be stemming from and why they may have been thought as a possibility.

Let's start with the one that seems to be most prominent :
Band Took Them or are involved in some way ; imo this stems from an 'US" and "Them "standpoint. It is rooted in conscious or unconscious racism imo . Just because a person belongs to a minority grouping does not mean they do not follow the same societal laws as every other human on this planet. They have communities just like our own with family loyalties , crime rates and other normal societal statistics regarding drugs ,dv , employment etc .
I feel referring to the Band as being part of some conspiracy to hide the children conjures up images of biased Hollywood movies of a minority group coming together sat around a camp fire and conspiring to avenge a harm done to them . One person does not make a community and if anyone from MBMs family did help remove the children they did it as an individual and because they are a relative or friend of MBM .

Second opinion I've seen on WS and SM is because it's been reported in MSM the children missed school since the tuesday this therefore must insinuate that they have been murdered . I can see where this may have grown in opinion as to what has happened as this has been a red flag in many a notable case . Obviously the timeline has been narrowed by cctv footage on the 1st of May and this imo should rule out that missing school may not have had anything to do with any scenario of possible homicide . Covering up of injuries like bruises maybe ?

Third opinion I've seen is DM harmed them or is a DV perpetrator or on drugs or all three . DM himself has discussed this in msm interviews . In regards to this speculation, I will concede that in a lot of cases the above are factors in the murder or accidental death of minors more so if the parent is not a biological one and step fathers in particular have been statistically convicted of abusing and killing minors . For me I see no evidence put forward to indicate DM is to blame .The only doubt I have about him stems from MBM leaving him so soon afterwards and cps not allowing him access to meadow unless supervised. Which I'm assuming is because they have evidence he was a risk to the child as again I'm assuming unless there is evidence of a risk , cps will not involve themselves in visitation or access even if the mother holds some personal grievance or grudge . I see this in the courts all the time being played out mother doesn't want the father to see the kids for some grievance she holds against the father for example infidelity and the judge will grant shared custody as no history of harming the kids .

Lastly I see a lot of hate , speculation and allegations against MBM . This is a hard one to form an opinion about as the question that pops up in my head is , Has she done herself any favours by her actions up to this point ? Are people looking for confirmation of maternal instinct ? With allegations running wild on SM mainly from alleged family members doing podcasts etc ( I previously linked an msm article in thread 5 from the local poet discussing this ) what do you believe here ? . Is her silence a want for privacy or to help the RCMP by not saying anything to impede the investigation? Or is it to hide guilt ? ,that is a matter for individual opinion.

I do think the fact the monetary reward has been put in place signifies that the RCMP feel this is more leaning towards a case with foulplay being a factor as we see with Dylan . E . His case did not qualify for this . Which then brings one back to being unable to completely shut down all the different conspiracy theories in one's mind and compartmentalise them as just that conspiracy.

Is it just unfortunate that the kids did just wander into the woods and they were missed by searchers . We know statistically this can happen. Usually it involves one child but could it just be that one child is a leader and one is a follower? I'm putting a lot of weight on the fact Jack was wearing a pull-up and the dogs should have smelt it but did he take it off before venturing out ? , was he known to do this and was it checked out ? Did he only wear it at night time and would not have ever worn it outside?

 

[Slebby]

I don’t think these children wandered away. DM and MBM said a lot of things about them (they’d be easy to take, they’ll talk your ear off) but one thing they did not say was that they were wanderers, or adventurous. I do not believe these kids, at the first opportunity to go on an adventure, ventured so far away as to never be found by a large well-organized search team.

When I was a little girl, almost 5 years old, the neighborhood dads took the bigger kids on a hike. I was mad to be left behind because I was “too small”. I slipped out of my house to go find them. I managed to walk about 5 blocks away, on paved concrete sidewalks, on a sunny day. I do not see these 2 kids getting very far in dense bush, on a cold morning, on empty stomachs. Oh, and one of them was allegedly sick, too sick for school.

I believe it is possible there was some substance abuse on the part of DM and/or MBM. The paternal grandmother of L and J spoke in glowing terms about the kind of mother MBM had been, said something like “she was made to be a mother”. That said, she noted things later changed and expressed concern at the living conditions of MBM and the children. I believe it is possible MBM fell into some sort of substance abuse. This might account for 2 young barely employed able-bodied adults needing to sleep until almost 10 am, leaving 2 children to their own devices, and possibly just too tired/hungover/drugged to perform the simple task of getting kids off to school, so kept them home instead.

In one of the more recent interviews, DM was asked about the rumor of a drug party. He answered very specifically, not “no”, but “no, not that night”. If I was the interviewer, I would have followed up on that. “Not that night? What about other nights?”

Getting back to Lilly and her alleged illness, I wonder, what was the errand, so important that DM and MBM took a sick child, all the children, into town? One or the other adult could have easily stayed home with any or all three kids while the other went for, say, groceries. What required both adults to go to town with the kids? Oh, and Lilly was healthy Thursday PM but not Friday am? But well enough Friday am to wander so far away as to never be found? Too many inconsistencies, imo.

All my random thoughts and musings on what could have happened here.

IMO

 

[Serononin]

Police fear Little Emile's body could have been stored in a FREEZER

Analyses of bones found near a river in the sleepy French hamlet of Haut Vernet early last year suggest they had moved before they were discovered

www.dailymail.co.uk

I've been thinking about Èmile's disappearance and similarities between the two cases . Only now is it transpiring that he was allegedly murdered . It did take a long time for msm to report any inklings of homicide, I had always believed up to that point that he wandered off and got lost in a similar manner to lilly and jack .

My feeling on a couple of theories doing the rounds at the moment whether on SM , MSM or from the very few locals who have spoken to the media is that there is an element of conspiracy to them .

But these conspiracies didn't imo just spout out of now where in people's minds. And I've been trying to work out where each stems from and how they may have grown legs . And why is it that this case is not being taken at face value and the kids did just wander into the woods and got lost

Grant it I can see the parents being viewed in a negative light as neglectful because two assumed special needs children were left unsupervised while they slept in and we have Daniels statement saying they were told to be quiet and I'm speculating here ,to allow meadow to sleep with mum and stepdad . But does that warrant the abuse and amount of conspiracy that surrounds this case ??

I'm just going to list a number of theories that seem to be doing the rounds just as an exercise in where they may be stemming from and why they may have been thought as a possibility.

Let's start with the one that seems to be most prominent :
Band Took Them or are involved in some way ; imo this stems from an 'US" and "Them "standpoint. It is rooted in conscious or unconscious racism imo . Just because a person belongs to a minority grouping does not mean they do not follow the same societal laws as every other human on this planet. They have communities just like our own with family loyalties , crime rates and other normal societal statistics regarding drugs ,dv , employment etc .
I feel referring to the Band as being part of some conspiracy to hide the children conjures up images of biased Hollywood movies of a minority group coming together sat around a camp fire and conspiring to avenge a harm done to them . One person does not make a community and if anyone from MBMs family did help remove the children they did it as an individual and because they are a relative or friend of MBM .

Second opinion I've seen on WS and SM is because it's been reported in MSM the children missed school since the tuesday this therefore must insinuate that they have been murdered . I can see where this may have grown in opinion as to what has happened as this has been a red flag in many a notable case . Obviously the timeline has been narrowed by cctv footage on the 1st of May and this imo should rule out that missing school may not have had anything to do with any scenario of possible homicide . Covering up of injuries like bruises maybe ?

Third opinion I've seen is DM harmed them or is a DV perpetrator or on drugs or all three . DM himself has discussed this in msm interviews . In regards to this speculation, I will concede that in a lot of cases the above are factors in the murder or accidental death of minors more so if the parent is not a biological one and step fathers in particular have been statistically convicted of abusing and killing minors . For me I see no evidence put forward to indicate DM is to blame .The only doubt I have about him stems from MBM leaving him so soon afterwards and cps not allowing him access to meadow unless supervised. Which I'm assuming is because they have evidence he was a risk to the child as again I'm assuming unless there is evidence of a risk , cps will not involve themselves in visitation or access even if the mother holds some personal grievance or grudge . I see this in the courts all the time being played out mother doesn't want the father to see the kids for some grievance she holds against the father for example infidelity and the judge will grant shared custody as no history of harming the kids .

Lastly I see a lot of hate , speculation and allegations against MBM . This is a hard one to form an opinion about as the question that pops up in my head is , Has she done herself any favours by her actions up to this point ? Are people looking for confirmation of maternal instinct ? With allegations running wild on SM mainly from alleged family members doing podcasts etc ( I previously linked an msm article in thread 5 from the local poet discussing this ) what do you believe here ? . Is her silence a want for privacy or to help the RCMP by not saying anything to impede the investigation? Or is it to hide guilt ? ,that is a matter for individual opinion.

I do think the fact the monetary reward has been put in place signifies that the RCMP feel this is more leaning towards a case with foulplay being a factor as we see with Dylan . E . His case did not qualify for this . Which then brings one back to being unable to completely shut down all the different conspiracy theories in one's mind and compartmentalise them as just that conspiracy.

Is it just unfortunate that the kids did just wander into the woods and they were missed by searchers . We know statistically this can happen. Usually it involves one child but could it just be that one child is a leader and one is a follower? I'm putting a lot of weight on the fact Jack was wearing a pull-up and the dogs should have smelt it but did he take it off before venturing out ? , was he known to do this and was it checked out ? Did he only wear it at night time and would not have ever worn it outside?

Re. Jack wearing a pull-up, I guess it's possible that he was getting to the stage where he didn't really need it at night and was just wearing it as a precaution. So it might well not have been wet/full, meaning that it (presumably) wouldn't smell any different to the dogs than if he hadn't been wearing it

 

[su5ie]

I don’t think these children wandered away. DM and MBM said a lot of things about them (they’d be easy to take, they’ll talk your ear off) but one thing they did not say was that they were wanderers, or adventurous. I do not believe these kids, at the first opportunity to go on an adventure, ventured so far away as to never be found by a large well-organized search team.

When I was a little girl, almost 5 years old, the neighborhood dads took the bigger kids on a hike. I was mad to be left behind because I was “too small”. I slipped out of my house to go find them. I managed to walk about 5 blocks away, on paved concrete sidewalks, on a sunny day. I do not see these 2 kids getting very far in dense bush, on a cold morning, on empty stomachs. Oh, and one of them was allegedly sick, too sick for school.

I believe it is possible there was some substance abuse on the part of DM and/or MBM. The paternal grandmother of L and J spoke in glowing terms about the kind of mother MBM had been, said something like “she was made to be a mother”. That said, she noted things later changed and expressed concern at the living conditions of MBM and the children. I believe it is possible MBM fell into some sort of substance abuse. This might account for 2 young barely employed able-bodied adults needing to sleep until almost 10 am, leaving 2 children to their own devices, and possibly just too tired/hungover/drugged to perform the simple task of getting kids off to school, so kept them home instead.

In one of the more recent interviews, DM was asked about the rumor of a drug party. He answered very specifically, not “no”, but “no, not that night”. If I was the interviewer, I would have followed up on that. “Not that night? What about other nights?”

Getting back to Lilly and her alleged illness, I wonder, what was the errand, so important that DM and MBM took a sick child, all the children, into town? One or the other adult could have easily stayed home with any or all three kids while the other went for, say, groceries. What required both adults to go to town with the kids? Oh, and Lilly was healthy Thursday PM but not Friday am? But well enough Friday am to wander so far away as to never be found? Too many inconsistencies, imo.

All my random thoughts and musings on what could have happened here.

IMO

There is one thing I will say about the alleged cough . If the cough was so bad to require a day off school , why could it not be heard by searchers in a remote rural location. Grant it an urban location would have a lot of noise pollution but would a cough be heard in a area with minimal noise ?

My opinion on the illness is unless there was signs of illness in school on Tuesday like lilly seemingly not herself, scratchy throat or temperature I personally don't believe it . I think it was a case of kids off Wednesday due to training day for teachers and parents just being lazy or something just kept them off gor rest of week . Happens all the time and would be a common occurrence of absenteeism in schools after a Bank Holiday or some other reason for school closure .

 

[su5ie]

Re. Jack wearing a pull-up, I guess it's possible that he was getting to the stage where he didn't really need it at night and was just wearing it as a precaution. So it might well not have been wet/full, meaning that it (presumably) wouldn't smell any different to the dogs than if he hadn't been wearing it

I'm surprised the family have not expanded on the routine the day/ night before or if the kids had been excited about something planned for the weekend

 

[su5ie]

In a poll what would people tick .

Kids wandered off □
Homicide direct or indirect □
Handover □
Abduction □
Other □ and what is your theory

 

[TMich6811]

Re. Jack wearing a pull-up, I guess it's possible that he was getting to the stage where he didn't really need it at night and was just wearing it as a precaution. So it might well not have been wet/full, meaning that it (presumably) wouldn't smell any different to the dogs than if he hadn't been wearing it

While he may have been, the likelihood of not having accidents in the pull-up in 8 weeks of being missing is basically none.

 

[tlcya]

In a poll what would people tick .

Kids wandered off □
Homicide direct or indirect □
Handover □
Abduction □
Other □ and what is your theory

#2 is where I am at currently

 

[TMich6811]

In a poll what would people tick .

Kids wandered off □
Homicide direct or indirect □
Handover □
Abduction □
Other □ and what is your theory

2 here also

 

[FansBlowing]

Definitely 2.

 

[cckp72]

I don’t think these children wandered away. DM and MBM said a lot of things about them (they’d be easy to take, they’ll talk your ear off) but one thing they did not say was that they were wanderers, or adventurous. I do not believe these kids, at the first opportunity to go on an adventure, ventured so far away as to never be found by a large well-organized search team.

When I was a little girl, almost 5 years old, the neighborhood dads took the bigger kids on a hike. I was mad to be left behind because I was “too small”. I slipped out of my house to go find them. I managed to walk about 5 blocks away, on paved concrete sidewalks, on a sunny day. I do not see these 2 kids getting very far in dense bush, on a cold morning, on empty stomachs. Oh, and one of them was allegedly sick, too sick for school.

I believe it is possible there was some substance abuse on the part of DM and/or MBM. The paternal grandmother of L and J spoke in glowing terms about the kind of mother MBM had been, said something like “she was made to be a mother”. That said, she noted things later changed and expressed concern at the living conditions of MBM and the children. I believe it is possible MBM fell into some sort of substance abuse. This might account for 2 young barely employed able-bodied adults needing to sleep until almost 10 am, leaving 2 children to their own devices, and possibly just too tired/hungover/drugged to perform the simple task of getting kids off to school, so kept them home instead.

In one of the more recent interviews, DM was asked about the rumor of a drug party. He answered very specifically, not “no”, but “no, not that night”. If I was the interviewer, I would have followed up on that. “Not that night? What about other nights?”

Getting back to Lilly and her alleged illness, I wonder, what was the errand, so important that DM and MBM took a sick child, all the children, into town? One or the other adult could have easily stayed home with any or all three kids while the other went for, say, groceries. What required both adults to go to town with the kids? Oh, and Lilly was healthy Thursday PM but not Friday am? But well enough Friday am to wander so far away as to never be found? Too many inconsistencies, imo.

All my random thoughts and musings on what could have happened here.

IMO

One thing I caught with the party thing he said was that the person who started the rumour was trying to get the heat off themselves.
So is he insinuating that that person had something to do with the kids or an unrelated offence?

 

[cckp72]

In a poll what would people tick .

Kids wandered off □
Homicide direct or indirect □
Handover □
Abduction □
Other □ and what is your theory

I'm leaning towards 1 myself but I asked my friend who is a homicide detective (different province and he knows only what's on the news also) and he said without a doubt it's number 2. FWIW

 

[Serononin]

One thing I caught with the party thing he said was that the person who started the rumour was trying to get the heat off themselves.
So is he insinuating that that person had something to do with the kids or an unrelated offence?

That stuck out to me, too, I was surprised the interviewer didn't ask him what he meant by that

 

[Sarahlou]

#2 is where I am at currently

Agreed. This case might seem confusing but in the end I think the outcome will be the same old sad story of kids being hurt by those closest to them, that we've seen way too many times.

 

[su5ie]

I'm undecided between 1 and 2

Reasons I think #1 kids got bored inside and possibly went looking for nature bits . Reason for not believing, seems to tidy meaning door closed over , both kids putting on boots and neither child leaving a clue such as a discarded item in woods or evidence of playing in the garden before venturing further .

Reason for number #2 statistics and separation of parents so soon afterwards and lack of appeals on milestone days such as marking of 1 month missing and reward being offered . I do think it's a distinct possibility they died accidentally and DM out looking and searching was possibly hiding and concealing.MOO Both parents are Aware .

For some reason ,I think they will be found within 1km of home and in a culvert or water . Probably because DM mentioned water in his intial interview about searching .

I think the kids could have been locked in somewhere to allow DM and MBM sleep and both suffocated . I don't see a double overdose or both kids been beaten and killed at the same time .

 

[missourimom2]

I'm about 75% death by misadventure, 25% accident by neglect one or both parents are covering up.

I think most people severely underestimate how hard it can be to find someone, especially a child, in dense brush. And they also underestimate how far kids can move on their own. Kids aren't rational or logical, they do things adults would find odd, so I'm reluctant to trust in any 'kids would never do X!'. Maybe if I have some free time I should do some research to see if anyone has done any studies on child behavior in rural survival situations!

Now that I'm thinking about it, I wonder if there are any old septic tanks and wells in the area, but SAR would have covered those.

I'm also open to the idea that someone on the property may have left some substances around that the kids got into, or an ATV accident, or something similar.

Yes. I’m a mom of several. I could see children that age wander away while trying to follow an animal they’ve spotted or a number of other reasons while playing. It would be easy to get turned around in a dense forest. I’m not holding on to this theory, but it is a possibility.