CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #6

[MistyWaters]

July 18 segment on CBC's The Current about Jack and Lilly. The RCMP states again that there is no evidence of abduction. The crime reporter in Nova Scotia who has worked in many rural areas confirms she has never been somewhere as rural as Landsdowne Station. The step-grandmother who lives on the property reiterates what many of us saw in a birthday party video that Lilly is always screaming and very excitable. A silent abduction is nearly impossible to imagine. She also asserts she does not believe they are in the woods, confirming how dense the area is and that she often had to 'drag ... carry Jack' through the brush. Paternal grandmother says she has not seen the children in 2 years, around the time MBM moved in with DM on the trailer property. This is an interesting statement IMO.

IIRC the bio-grandmother said MBM had brought the children over for visits and then stopped after she moved in the DM. But she said nothing about making numerous attempts to contact MBM and was just ignored. So maybe MBM ended the visits because she felt the bio-grandmother wasn’t any more interested in the children than was her son, the biofather? Maybe she felt the step-grandmother could’ve done more to urge her son to remain a part of the lives of the children? We really don’t know, nothing can be concluded without knowing more of the situation or both sides of the story.
JMO

 

[branmuffin]

No disrespect to everyone involved, but from the media interviews and police coverage, I did not get the sense these were people who 'get up and get their gear on and go outside in incremental weather and do chores.' MBM and DM were supposedly dozing with Meadow at 10 a.m. while the two children were supposedly outside playing. I can't cast an opinion on JM, but she also went back to bed around 9:30 a.m. May in Ontario and Nova Scotia is cold. It sometimes snows, and it is black fly season. Nobody is getting their gardens ready let alone a pool. I found JM's instistence that the children did not go into the woods interesting, as it pushes the same theory that MBM and DM raised from the get-go: abduction. But the RCMP is still saying abduction is not a theory they are pursuing.

I don't think anything is written in stone when you start preparing when it comes to gardening. I guess it depends whether you garden for pleasure or garden for food. Considering that JM raises chickens and economics might play a role in preparing a garden bed for food it's possible she was out early preparing the earth for planting. Once the snow melts and the ground thaws there's nothing stopping you from doing that.

 

[Izzylizzy]

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Jul 18, 2025 #news #novascotia #cbcnews
The step-grandmother of Lilly and Jack Sullivan showed CBC News around the Nova Scotia property where the children disappeared 11 weeks ago. Janie Mackenzie and another family member say they’re frustrated with the RCMP’s investigation.

Longer video with step-grandmother.

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[branmuffin]

I think you’re referring to First Nations land. First Nations people can live there, (on Reserves),but they do not own their house or land. MBM is First Nations, but not DM family. His mother owns their house or land the trailer is on. Nothing known about DM family. It has been said by DM that j&L have been given First Nations status but not Meadow.

Here's a pretty concise explanation of property ownership on reserves. As far as I know the land where the kids went missing is not reserve territory.

Real property ownership and family homes on reserves - FREE Legal Information | Legal Line

The following information has been provided with the assistance of Lakehead University Faculty of Law, Aboriginal Law Studies. Ownership of real property on reserves Under the Indian Act, all land on reserves is owned by the Crown (Government of Canada), but it is given to the First Nation or...

www.legalline.ca

I'm sure Meadow wouldn't be granted FN status based on the rules.

Loading…

www.nwac.ca

Edit to correct

 

[branmuffin]

That thought crossed my mind as well. Government forced testing could possibly pose a serious threat if inclined to believe in wacky conspiracy theories.
JMO

It could also be cultural trauma related to suspicion and fear that a diagnosis could mean losing the child based on historical facts of children being removed from their families.

 

[seasideForest]

It could also be cultural trauma related to suspicion and fear that a diagnosis could mean losing the child based on historical facts of children being removed from their families.

It certainly could!

Especially since those 'historical facts' aren't exactly in the dawn of time or anything but within my own lifetime.

MOO

 

[su5ie]

Here's a pretty concise explanation of property ownership on reserves. As far as I know the land where the kids went missing is not reserve territory.

Real property ownership and family homes on reserves - FREE Legal Information | Legal Line

The following information has been provided with the assistance of Lakehead University Faculty of Law, Aboriginal Law Studies. Ownership of real property on reserves Under the Indian Act, all land on reserves is owned by the Crown (Government of Canada), but it is given to the First Nation or...

www.legalline.ca

I'm sure Meadow wouldn't be granted FN status based on the rules.

Loading…

www.nwac.ca

Edit to correct

Sorry if my original post caused confusion as to where i was going with the question. I was merely asking about land ownership because I wondered if in the case it didn't belong to DMs family or was given to them by the land commissionfor a period of time .prehaps the kids disappearance was engineered by someone eager to get them off the property.

Silly now when I think about it and it was late at night for me so probably going down a rabbit hole of conspiracy with the train of thought .

In ireland, years ago travelling families living in caravans and mobile homes would move onto land and claim squatting rights until money was paid for them to move which they then did . Only to set up "camp" in the next field and the process would be the same . Nice earner !!

The government and councils of each county cottoned on and started to build a type of travelling community compound with houses and space for mobile homes . There is many communities like this in dublin and beyond. Nowadays many travelling families are what we call ' settled " travelling families. Living alongside and integrated fully with non members of their community.

 

[su5ie]

So the children were to be tested for autism the same month they went missing, just a coincidence I suppose.

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/friday-july-18-2025-episode-transcript-1.7588759

“Now, he also acknowledges that Child Protective Services did visit the house prior to the disappearance. He says the visit was prompted by teachers who were concerned about the children's behaviour at school, and social workers wanted to meet them to see if they could get them in to be tested for autism. He says that testing was supposed to take place in May, the month that they disappeared.”

Would this be the usual process for the pathway to assessment or is it done when a parent prehaps doesn't engage with the school about contacting an assessment officer within the health board

In ireland which is the only one I'm expierenced with . The process is started like so , children from about 3 months old see a public health nurse up to the age of about 2 and a half to ensure they are hitting their milestones , eating , talking ,walking , tasks appropriate for their age stacking blocks etc . If the public health nurse spots delays she/ he may forward the child for an assessment of need . This process involves an intial overall assessment. If it indicates further exploration, the child is placed on a list for assessment by different professionals qualified in physiotherapy, psychology, occupational therapy and speech and language. Generally the child will have started school by the time it's complete and the school will then also add their assessment. Then it is all looked at by a consultant who specialises in diagnosing children with special needs.

It doesn't involve the need for cps or social workers if you are engaging with the services and willing to accept any advice to help and encourage your child

 

[AnnieOakley123]

I don't think anything is written in stone when you start preparing when it comes to gardening. I guess it depends whether you garden for pleasure or garden for food. Considering that JM raises chickens and economics might play a role in preparing a garden bed for food it's possible she was out early preparing the earth for planting. Once the snow melts and the ground thaws there's nothing stopping you from doing that.

Nobody is arguing the mechanics of gardening. JM never said she was gardening, and if you've seen the property from the days during the early investigation, you can observe that this was not a place where people were creating garden beds for food or otherwise. It's not a topic that relates to the case anyway.

My point was about deductive reasoning from what we've seen, heard, and read from MSM, and whether JM is a reliable source. I'm not saying she isn't; I'm offering my own critical thinking opinion. The paternal grandmother shared her story a month ago, and, from my perspective, she has no reason to lie. She hasn't seen the missing children for almost two years, right about the time MBM moved onto DM's property and went to the courts to seek full custody (as per statement from BG, so take with a grain of salt). BG also said she was shocked at the condition of the trailer property when she went out to help search for the children, since MBM had always been very tidy. She also confirmed what most of us thought -- that it is logistically and physically impossible that the children wandered into the woods. The lack of cadaver dogs on the property and in the surrounding wooded area confirms that the RCMP also does not believe they are/were in the woods.

IMO: MBM was in a vulnerable situation. She had two children from a prior relationship with their bio dad, who chose not to be involved in their lives. She had an 18-month-old baby with DM. She sought sole custody of Lilly and Jack, severing ties with the paternal side of the family. She lived on a property with DM's mother, and DM's extended family members also lived on Landsdowne Road. MBM self-described as being a stay-at-home mother. DM self-described as working one day a week at a sawmill. This is a very isolating situation for a young mother with three children ages six and under.

[I've shared the paternal grandmother's interview above. Police expert interview with Global News from June 13 for curious minds.]

 

[AddyFinch]

Yes, Paternal Granny had zero to gain. Her interview wasn't about her or her son, it was all concern for the kids, and possibly a soft spot for MBM. At first I didn't trust her actions or story, but after comparing her to the other Granny, I think Belinda showed empathy, compassion and honesty.

In Ontario Bill 34 does allow grandparents to apply to the courts for custody, or access etc, but I imagine it's costly and exhausting. The courts have the right to refuse based on their reasons and applications etc. I think except in extreme cases where children are severely neglected or abandoned, the process might be more harmful than good.

 

[TMich6811]

So the children were to be tested for autism the same month they went missing, just a coincidence I suppose.

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/friday-july-18-2025-episode-transcript-1.7588759

“Now, he also acknowledges that Child Protective Services did visit the house prior to the disappearance. He says the visit was prompted by teachers who were concerned about the children's behaviour at school, and social workers wanted to meet them to see if they could get them in to be tested for autism. He says that testing was supposed to take place in May, the month that they disappeared.”

This doesn’t add up. Can someone in Canada help please

Speaking of my extensive professional knowledge of CPS in the US -

- The behaviors related to autism would not result in a call to CPS
- Parents are allowed (to a neglectful extent) to refuse evaluations and it takes extensive meetings to reach a point of involving CPS due to noncompliance
- if a school called and said a child was showing ASD behaviors CPS wouldn’t investigate unless there was something attached to it that was abuse or neglectful

So with my knowledge - were they refusing intervention for the kids prior? Were the behaviors significant behaviors that sometimes occur with ASD but need diagnosed and a rule out of abuse first (self injury sometimes or sexualized behaviors are examples, there are more)

Would actual ASD/developmental behaviors be reason alone to call CPS in Canada? This line of thought is confusing for me and could absolutely be different in Canada

I find myself wondering if they were actually scheduled for forensic interviews also

 

[AddyFinch]

I have zero experience with this, but think in Ontario families with diagnosed autistic children who are registered, receive monies, the amount decreases after the age of ??5 or 6 and continues like most things til 18 yrs of age. I'm not sure if Nova Scotia also has this benefit.
And I agree MBM might not want the kids diagnosed due to some peoples stigma attached to kids with learning disabilities. I haven't personally seen it in my later years, but am sure it goes on.

 

[AddyFinch]

Can;t speak from personal experience, but will say this, in Ontario and someone correct me if wrong, CAS (CPS) is not called unless evidence of physical abuse is noted, bruising, cuts, no lunches, child relaying a story of abuse or police attendance at the home and they call the CAS. I suspect if a school board has advised the family to seek professional assistance for child and the parent refuses, it could be judged as "neglect". In the old days truancy used to have a follow up by the truant officer, but they got rid of him around the Moon Landing. Nowadays it's a text message to the parent why child is not at school.
When a child needs testing, it is referred by teacher to a "board" and peer reviews/discussions are done. In Moon Landing days, the school used to have a school psychologist who started the ball rolling for further testing. He/She became the feared referral as a stigma was instantly attached to the child. Often without reason). I think they now make suggestions to the parents of private testing covered by the government.
In the real world, in a small community would a teacher have a conversation with a CPS rep, maybe for some advice???? You betcha.

 

[MistyWaters]

This doesn’t add up. Can someone in Canada help please

Speaking of my extensive professional knowledge of CPS in the US -

- The behaviors related to autism would not result in a call to CPS
- Parents are allowed (to a neglectful extent) to refuse evaluations and it takes extensive meetings to reach a point of involving CPS due to noncompliance
- if a school called and said a child was showing ASD behaviors CPS wouldn’t investigate unless there was something attached to it that was abuse or neglectful

So with my knowledge - were they refusing intervention for the kids prior? Were the behaviors significant behaviors that sometimes occur with ASD but need diagnosed and a rule out of abuse first (self injury sometimes or sexualized behaviors are examples, there are more)

Would actual ASD/developmental behaviors be reason alone to call CPS in Canada? This line of thought is confusing for me and could absolutely be different in Canada

I find myself wondering if they were actually scheduled for forensic interviews also

Purely my speculation, but I notice in Canada neglectful parenting also falls under the authority of Child Welfare and education is one of the categories. I’d think that would cover a situation if a parent refuses to allow a child any educational opportunities. Or if a child’s behaviour is constantly disruptive to the classroom and parent refuses to have the child tested by medical professionals to determine the cause of behavioural difficulties, it seems to be the schools obligation would be to contact Child Welfare seeking intervention. What else could the school do? Allow the student plus the classmates to fall behind while each day chaos prevails and the importance of education was neglected? I think the same would apply in the US.
JMO

ETA In a hypothetical situation as above, the solution is for the school board to hire a teachers aid to work one-on-one with the student. But without testing and diagnosis and a learning plan nothing can happen if the parent refuses to cooperate as funding will not be granted on a whim. So IMO this would (or definitely SHOULD) be where Children Welfare steps in.

 

[TMich6811]

Purely my speculation, but I notice in Canada neglectful parenting also falls under the authority of Child Welfare and education is one of the categories. If a child’s behaviour is constantly disruptive to the classroom and parent refuses to have the child tested to determine the cause of behavioural difficulties, it seems to be the schools obligation would be to contact Child Welfare seeking intervention. What else could the school do? Allow the student plus the classmates to fall behind while each day chaos prevailed? I think the same would apply in the US.
JMO

Yes I noted this.

 

[TMich6811]

What is the school calendar in this area? Like start to finish dates I mean. I’ll look when I get a sec

 

[MistyWaters]

Here's a pretty concise explanation of property ownership on reserves. As far as I know the land where the kids went missing is not reserve territory.

Real property ownership and family homes on reserves - FREE Legal Information | Legal Line

The following information has been provided with the assistance of Lakehead University Faculty of Law, Aboriginal Law Studies. Ownership of real property on reserves Under the Indian Act, all land on reserves is owned by the Crown (Government of Canada), but it is given to the First Nation or...

www.legalline.ca

I'm sure Meadow wouldn't be granted FN status based on the rules.

Loading…

www.nwac.ca

Edit to correct

I learned something I didn’t know before. While we know Lilly and Jack are members of the Sipekne'katik First Nations through their mother’s/paternal grandfather’s lineage, however they do not require to be registered under the Indian Act to be eligible to be a member of the band. Indian Status depends on the ‘degree of descent from ancestors’ and I have no idea what is the minimum requirement is.

About Indian status

Indigenous Services Canada - Indian status. Find out more about entitlement, benefits and registration under the Indian Act and the Indian Register.

www.sac-isc.gc.ca

“To be registered under the Indian Act isn't the same as being a First Nation member or citizen….”

 

[MistyWaters]

What is the school calendar in this area? Like start to finish dates I mean. I’ll look when I get a sec

https://www.ednet.ns.ca/docs/schoolcalendar-2024-25-en.pdf

 

[musicaljoke]

Well said,

AnnieOakley123​

I completely agree hence the hesitation to put my thoughts to the Granny interview.The cleaning of the yard, fresh paint, the settee and flowers etc startled me with my first thought.. "all this yard work when they could have been out searching for those kids". The paint job was haphazard and hastily applied, if you'll notice especially on the green stain, the placement of outdoor furniture as if they were expecting company (maybe they were). I wondered if it wasn't a response to the negative online comments, then was it, for the custody case that may ensue for the little one. Or was it a normal reaction to seeing a photo from someone's lens and you think omg!
I don't know the answer, but suspect as Annie Oakley stated, that yard was unkempt (I would describe it as dangerous for little kids) and was probably a daily norm for them. The stove pipe in the RV window gives me concern for asphyxiation issues, but maybe unfounded as I dont know what appliance is inside.

I think the paternal Granny spoke more from the heart with honesty, but maybe the step Gran feels threatened so responds differently?
My bottom line is the cbc interview sadly wasn't done with a journalist interview, no probing questions (maybe they agreed on that narrative from the start).

My unease comes with the fixing up of the property. The preparing soil in the spring before the pool is even purchased. The lack of proper tools...?? a fan rake?? Maybe the iron one was in the shed.
Location was not in a fenced area, and not near a hose?? I do have experience with a pool. And yes, the heater was turned on May 1 every year, but the water was (shhhhhhh 95 degrees). My impression she was talking about a kiddie pool, and not an above ground one. Our gardening is started in April, but we don't have a ton of black flies this far south and no we don't wear bug protectors , only mosquito repellant hiking, at evening parties or gardening in the shade.
I'm not sleuthing the step Gran, only the videos and photos that MSM or she herself has shown of property. And yes, I do have thoughts re her, but until LE makes a statement I won't comment.

The early videos of the yard were taken about May 3rd, before the weather had become pleasant enough to start yard work. It isn't unusual for rural homes to have some accumulation of winter things that need to be put away properly once Spring comes. Yard raking, repainting, and repairing, all normally happen once the weather is decent, usually around the long weekend in May. We shouldn't expect that the yard in July would still be the same as the yard in early May unless the place had been abandoned.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes I noted this.

Then why do you dispute behaviours associated to autism could result in a call from the school to Child Welfare. According to the bus driver Jack would throw his shoes at him to get his attention and Lilly had a habit of squealing and screaming. Behaviour such as that on a regular basis would certainly be disruptive to other children’s learning in the classroom, especially as teachers’ options to deal with it are extremely limited.
JMO