CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

  • #61
Yes no doubt it impacted their learning. Malehya admitted the children had fallen behind their classmates in school.

It’s perplexing, she admitted they might be autistic and they’d fallen behind at school yet she didn’t do anything to try to improve the situation. Curious why that would be? So the way I see it by the school filing a report with CPS, they may’ve wanted to move her forward into taking action. That’s not entirely negative as it was for the best interests of the children.
JMO
I haven't seen any evidence from her or the school cited in MSM that "she didn't do anything" about issues with her children.

AFAIK, she was only quoted in MSM as saying they had some learning issues at school and had fallen behind.

We still don't know, and maybe never will, what the concerns were that CPS was contacted about by the school, nor any follow up or plans to address any of it being developed and/or complied with by anyone, including Malehya.
 
  • #62
Not sure where their mom's partner DM, who they were living with on his family's property and being raised by with mom, who is the father of their half sibling -- or their bio dad -- may fit in or if it was all on their mom and only her to address those issues of concern

He is the mother's partner but he's not the biological father of the children and probably doesn't have any parental responsibility for them. If for some reason she wasn't responding to the school's attempts to address the children's behavior, I doubt that he could have done anything. The biological father similarly no longer has parental responsibility so the buck has to stop with her.
 
  • #63
FWIW— here in NS we all have the legal obligation to report the possible abuse of a minor.

“Duty to Report
Every individual in the province of Nova Scotia has a legal obligation to report concerns of abuse or neglect of a child under the age of 19 in order to ensure
children are protected from harm. Failure to report is a criminal offence.
Three Types of Reporting
1. Duty to report for every Nova Scotian
2. Duty of professionals and officials to report
3. Duty to report third-party abuse”

 
  • #64
Yes no doubt it impacted their learning. Malehya admitted the children had fallen behind their classmates in school.

It’s perplexing, she admitted they might be autistic and they’d fallen behind at school yet she didn’t do anything to try to improve the situation. Curious why that would be? So the way I see it by the school filing a report with CPS, they may’ve wanted to move her forward into taking action. That’s not entirely negative as it was for the best interests of the children.
JMO

Don’t really we can say any of what you just did as we know none of it. We know what she said but we don’t know she did or didn’t do anything or why the school reported or if it’s even related in every way.
 
  • #65
Don’t really we can say any of what you just did as we know none of it. We know what she said but we don’t know she did or didn’t do anything or why the school reported or if it’s even related in every way.

True, however it’s quite safe to conclude by general knowledge of the English language the phrase “possible autism” means the diagnosis hasn’t been confirmed. One other thing, while we don’t know why the school reported the children, nowhere is it stated it was due to abuse at the hands of Daniel. In fact if we’re looking for facts, we don’t know much at all.
 
  • #66
True, however it’s quite safe to conclude by general knowledge of the English language the phrase “possible autism” means the diagnosis hasn’t been confirmed. One other thing, while we don’t know why the school reported the children, nowhere is it stated it was due to abuse at the hands of Daniel. In fact if we’re looking for facts, we don’t know much at all.

I appreciate the tone and education on the English language.
Working with folks whose children are going through the diagnostic testing for autism here’s a few other possible definitions for “possible autism”

- undiagnosed but suspected
- diagnosed but in denial
- parents say it’s autism, evaluator says it’s environmental
- autism has been ruled out but parents disagree
 
  • #67
I appreciate the tone and education on the English language.
Working with folks whose children are going through the diagnostic testing for autism here’s a few other possible definitions for “possible autism”

- undiagnosed but suspected
- diagnosed but in denial
- parents say it’s autism, evaluator says it’s environmental
- autism has been ruled out but parents disagree
Don't forget "the testing was completed and they weren't able to diagnose it but the evaluator wants you to come back in X time as they think it's likely your child is autistic but compensating for now"!
 
  • #68
I haven't seen any evidence from her or the school cited in MSM that "she didn't do anything" about issues with her children.

AFAIK, she was only quoted in MSM as saying they had some learning issues at school and had fallen behind.

We still don't know, and maybe never will, what the concerns were that CPS was contacted about by the school, nor any follow up or plans to address any of it being developed and/or complied with by anyone, including Malehya.

What evidence did you notice to indicate an improvement had occurred?

‘Only quoted’ as saying they had some learning issues at school and had fallen behind. Maybe you don’t see that as cause for alarm but I sure do. It’s the responsibility of the school system to educate ALL children and if there’s something preventing them for doing so they should care. Thankfully it’s no longer the way to ignore the children that can’t keep up. Studies have shown the importance of early education is strongly connected to later success in life.

Whether or not this has any connection to their disappearance, hopefully time will tell.
JMO
 
  • #69
I appreciate the tone and education on the English language.
Working with folks whose children are going through the diagnostic testing for autism here’s a few other possible definitions for “possible autism”

- undiagnosed but suspected
- diagnosed but in denial
- parents say it’s autism, evaluator says it’s environmental
- autism has been ruled out but parents disagree

How can we know this as the appointment hadn’t occurred yet? IIRC as I can’t find a link at the moment, possibly G&M, but Daniel said the appointment for assessment was to occur the following week, had the children not went missing.

A report by the school followed by a visit by a social worker, than all only a coincidence the children were to be assessed to determine the reason behind their developmental difficulties. All a coincidence? I don’t think so.
 
  • #70
How can we know this as the appointment hadn’t occurred yet? IIRC as I can’t find a link at the moment, possibly G&M, but Daniel said the appointment for assessment was to occur the following week had the children not went missing.

We have no idea that’s the point isn’t it
 
  • #71
We have no idea that’s the point isn’t it

We have no idea about anything relating to this case actually. For me it ranks right up there near the top in terms of massive speculation in lieu of solid information directly sourced from police.
 
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  • #72
What evidence did you notice to indicate an improvement had occurred?

‘Only quoted’ as saying they had some learning issues at school and had fallen behind. Maybe you don’t see that as cause for alarm but I sure do. It’s the responsibility of the school system to educate ALL children and if there’s something preventing them for doing so they should care. Thankfully it’s no longer the way to ignore the children that can’t keep up. Studies have shown the importance of early education is strongly connected to later success in life.

Whether or not this has any connection to their disappearance, hopefully time will tell.
JMO
We don't know about the timing of any of the communications thus far, only that MBM said they had fallen behind and DM said they were about to be evaluated the next week after they disappeared.

For all we know MBM could have done everything she possibly could and was expected to do once it became an issue teachers brought up, and was eager for the upcoming evals.

A 2 year old and 5 year old are on the young side for being evaluated in my experience, in the US public schools anyway.

In my personal experience in several regions I've worked in and having several family members and long time friends who work with children with learning or behavioral issues, there are differences of opinion on when evals are warranted and what to do with the results in deciding on the best support and acommodations if needed in providing the best educational environment for a given child. No less how to implement accomodations and then gauge improvements.

Imo, the whole process can drag out even with school aged children (older than preschool/kindergarten aged Jack and Lilly), and even if they have full participation from the family and teachers and an IEP (Individualized Education Plan) in place.

I know many kids and their families who had to wait months & sometimes years for the issue to be raised, the evals, the IEPs to be put in place, reassesed and tweaked along the way sometimes with no clear benchmarks to measure if it was working/the child's learning experience in school was improving.

I have a 6 year old family member first flagged by teachers in preschool as possibly having issues affecting his ability to function as well as the rest of the kids in a school setting, and the school first met with his parents to get the ball rolling, in the Summer, like Jack & Lilly, and they told the parents he should be evaluated once school started, and it took a whole school season for the evals to happen, and the whole time the parents were totally onboard and very eager to get him evaluated and seek the support he may need.

This is the crux of the matter, IMO, that we don't know any details about where in the process they were with Jack and Lilly, and whom did or didn't do what might have been expected or after waiting how long, etc.

So without evidence to the contrary, it's purely speculative, like many aspects of this tragic case, with regards to what MBM did or didn't do for her kids or if she had or had not yet to be given the tools and advice and a plan to participate in addressing their issues.

Because nothing has come out about it at all except the 2 statements above about them falling behind and about to be evaluated from MBM, and DM, respectively.

MOO
 
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  • #73
IMO, there were extenuating circumstances regarding Malehya's abilities to prevent or even mitigate anything which might have been not right and/or safe and/or in flux in their home environment leading up to her two older childrens' sudden disappearance.

This age old trope comes to mind regarding what humans do when in crisis, and yes, I do believe there was a crisis building up at home with the 5 of them which affected Lilly and Jack's safety and well being:

1. Fawn

2. Fight

3. Flight

1 was likely for months according to her family.

3 was what saved her and her baby daughter Meadow from being in an ongoing potentially worsening or untenable or terrible situation.

2 no telling if it was attempted by her previously in the interim, and she was unsuccessful in that regard.

I'm just soooo thankful her family stepped in and have been able to help her survive the disappearance and loss of her dear sweet children, now going on 4 months.

I hold her and her missing babes in my heart, and am so very sorry for this unimaginable tragedy she is dealing with every day she wakes up without them.

💔

MOO
 
  • #74
Yes visit had ready occurred, which assumably then led up to an appointment having been made for the assessment had they not gone missing. We don’t know what the evaluation would’ve been, I merely repeated the mother’s own comments about possible autism.

“A child protection worker visited the children's home in the months before their disappearance, The Globe and Mail reported. The visit came after concerns were raised by someone at the children's school, according to the outlet. The findings of the investigation are shielded by privacy laws.”
Interestingly, I have to wonder if the assessment timing may be a red herring to trigger the disappearance. I am thinking no connection...

If anything, I would think an assessment could have benefitted MBM at least financially.

From what I know (not an expert) there are government grants for families if dependents have ADHD and I think autism as well.

So MBM could have been a candidate to receive hundreds of dollars a month per child if they were both diagnosed with either. MOO JMO
 
  • #75
I think that prior to calling children services the school probably reached out to the mother multiple times with concerns, possibly offering referrals for interventions or other types of services and for whatever reason she didn't take advantage of those. At some point the behaviors were not improving, the mother was not taking any steps to try to help address the behaviors, and the school had no choice but to make a children's services referral.

Without going too deep down a rabbit hole about why she wouldn't want children services interventions or any other type of interventions with her children, I can't help but think that there's a chance that the disappearance happening between that children services visit and the scheduled autism assessment is not a coincidence.
I do think MBM was definitely getting overwhelmed.

Young baby/lack of sleep, and if getting an onslaught of calls/emails/letters with all the government jargon in the letters, forms, etc. it can be stressful trying to keep up with it all and intimidating if she's had no prior experience with any of it.

She possibly felt in over her head for most of it. She actually had a lot on her plate I feel.... DM likely not much help in that department and likely like a child himself!

It's a shame MBM didn't seem to want to reach out to her family for help if she was drowning in it all...

All JMO MOO
 
  • #76
The biological father similarly no longer has parental responsibility so the buck has to stop with her.
As far as I know the bio dad was not stripped of his parental rights by a court. So he might be a deadbeat, but it does not mean his parental responsibilities and duties magically vanished.
 
  • #77
As far as I know the bio dad was not stripped of his parental rights by a court. So he might be a deadbeat, but it does not mean his parental responsibilities and duties magically vanished.
In the interview with his mother she said he signed away his rights to the children. It might not mean the same thing in Canada but here in the US He would have no legal right to do things like make medical decisions etc.
 
  • #78
In the interview with his mother she said he signed away his rights to the children. It might not mean the same thing in Canada but here in the US He would have no legal right to do things like make medical decisions etc.
You cannot just sign away your parental rights in Canada. There must be valid reasons for that, like the child being given up for adoption, or being adopted by the step parent. In each case the parental rights are terminated by the court, after considering what's the best for the children. "I got bored with playing a dad" does not cut it.

There is no evidence MBM and the bio dad went to the court. There is no evidence DM ever thought about adopting Jack and Lily. So yeah, I suppose "he signed his rights off" sounds better than "he does not care".
 
  • #79
If a time comes when the children's remains are found will the cps file be made public at an inquest in to the circumstances of their disappearance?

A poster mentioned that if the children were alive , with the fact there is prior cps involvement the public may never be told if they were being hidden for their wellbeing by mbm . So would the public be led to believe they where still missing?


The Globe & Mail article from August 8th has several additional details that are relevant to this discussion. The first three quotes below relate to events that happened before the disappearance and would likely be relevant to CPS:

"They were developmentally behind other children, and arrived at school grubby and without appropriate winter clothing, prompting staff to provide it for them, according to a school board employee with direct knowledge."

"Last December, Jack came to school with a black eye, according to a photo of him posted by his elementary school."

"Daniel’s father Earle said he bought the couple groceries and gas, and provided firewood to heat their home"

"Malehya also confided in her paternal grandmother ... how Daniel would hold her down and take her phone. “He was having her, I don’t know what you call it, scared. She couldn’t go anywhere, do anything,”

"<DM> has admitted to taking methamphetamines and “pretty much everything.” He said he recently started attending Narcotics Anonymous three times a week, and is taking online courses in anger management, depression, parenting, child protection, substance abuse, suicide and violent behaviour."
Imo ,no one can deny circumstances weren't good in the home as these statements indicate ,even if we just address the lack of money to meet basic needs . The tension and mental health issues this causes can make for a difficult environment for kids to thrive and adults to function with full engagement of parenting imo .

I'm assuming when reports are made from the school to cps they are viewing the whole picture concerning the child's wellbeing. If we have circumstances where a parent is not being open in regard to conversation about the difficulties causing the neglectful appearance of the children . School staff can report so they can find out the underlying issue from a third party ( cps) I feel if more schools reported in circumstances where there are unsure reasons ,children may not slip under the radar .

I agree that most of the debates about this case is speculative as we really don't know much . If what is being released is the tip of the iceberg god only knows what happened

I think DM said it best in his sit down interview " there is a lot going on that the public aren't aware of "
 
  • #80
as to RCMP concluding there was no criminal involvement I see that differently as well.

an unidentified investigator writing in court documents we do not know the date of "At this point in the investigation, Jack and Lilly's disappearance is not believed to be criminal in nature. I do not have reasonable grounds to believe a criminal offence has occurred."

means to me that that unnamed investigator hasn't found sufficient grounds of criminal involvement in this case.

The RCMP maintained that they had not ruled out any scenario while the files were being assessed under the Missing Persons Act.
Lilly and Jack Sullivan update: Polygraph test results revealed

MOO IMO
That's the thing that confuses me. This makes it sound like the conclusion of no apparent criminality was the opinion of a single investigator, but other articles I've read are reporting as though the RCMP as a whole have reached that conclusion, so have I missed something?
 

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