CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

[Serononin]

If a time comes when the children's remains are found will the cps file be made public at an inquest in to the circumstances of their disappearance?

A poster mentioned that if the children were alive , with the fact there is prior cps involvement the public may never be told if they were being hidden for their wellbeing by mbm . So would the public be led to believe they where still missing?



Imo ,no one can deny circumstances weren't good in the home as these statements indicate ,even if we just address the lack of money to meet basic needs . The tension and mental health issues this causes can make for a difficult environment for kids to thrive and adults to function with full engagement of parenting imo .

I'm assuming when reports are made from the school to cps they are viewing the whole picture concerning the child's wellbeing. If we have circumstances where a parent is not being open in regard to conversation about the difficulties causing the neglectful appearance of the children . School staff can report so they can find out the underlying issue from a third party ( cps) I feel if more schools reported in circumstances where there are unsure reasons ,children may not slip under the radar .

I agree that most of the debates about this case is speculative as we really don't know much . If what is being released is the tip of the iceberg god only knows what happened

I think DM said it best in his sit down interview " there is a lot going on that the public aren't aware of "

I don't know what the laws are in Canada, but here in the UK there were quite a few Social Services records about Sara Sharif made public after her killers had been convicted, so possibly Canada might have a similar process for disclosing that kind of information after an investigation is fully completed

 

[musicaljoke]

I’m catching up on posts and probably missed discussion about Lilly going to sleep with her backpack. What does anyone make of that? (Guarding what was in it?)

They also confirmed that two pieces of Lilly’s blanket were found and they were part of a whole. One off Lansdowne Road, and another piece in the family garbage.

I wonder if Lilly was upset about the blanket being thrown out and decided to take it away from the house. Maybe building a fort with it around that spruce tree.

The CBC article linked above discusses the blanket. It had been used by Lily as a doll blanket. It was not her special blanket. It had been torn up and used in the winter to stop the drafts. Then, when the better weather came at the beginning of May, it was tossed in the garbage. It was in the garbage before the children went missing, so finding it in pieces in the garbage was not unexpected. However, finding a piece of the blanket far from home was a concern.

 

[Serononin]

The CBC article linked above discusses the blanket. It had been used by Lily as a doll blanket. It was not her special blanket. It had been torn up and used in the winter to stop the drafts. Then, when the better weather came at the beginning of May, it was tossed in the garbage. It was in the garbage before the children went missing, so finding it in pieces in the garbage was not unexpected. However, finding a piece of the blanket far from home was a concern.

It wasn't a doll blanket AFAIK, it was a regular blanket with an LOL Doll design on it, but the rest is correct

 

[musicaljoke]

Another piece of blanket was seized from a garbage bag in a bin at the end of the family's driveway. Martell tells CBC it was the same blanket but had been ripped apart.

Brooks-Murray told police it was Lilly's LOL doll blanket that she had "sometimes dragged around with her" but had decided she no longer wanted. Martell had been using it to stop a draft around the door, according to her statement.

"Malehya took the blanket from the door because the weather was getting nicer about a week before and she threw it in the garbage," the documents said. "There was already a piece missing from it when she did that because Daniel ripped it off when he put it up."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/extensive-rcmp-scrutiny-of-missing-children-s-mother-stepfather-suggests-no-criminal-involvement-1.7615551

 

[su5ie]

Another piece of blanket was seized from a garbage bag in a bin at the end of the family's driveway. Martell tells CBC it was the same blanket but had been ripped apart.

Brooks-Murray told police it was Lilly's LOL doll blanket that she had "sometimes dragged around with her" but had decided she no longer wanted. Martell had been using it to stop a draft around the door, according to her statement.

"Malehya took the blanket from the door because the weather was getting nicer about a week before and she threw it in the garbage," the documents said. "There was already a piece missing from it when she did that because Daniel ripped it off when he put it up."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/extensive-rcmp-scrutiny-of-missing-children-s-mother-stepfather-suggests-no-criminal-involvement-1.7615551

If the investigation has reached a stage where there is no suggestions of criminal involvement will the next step be cadaver dogs or will the rcmp wait until a member of the public stumbles upon the remains ??

Does hunting season start soon in nova scotia ? Is it the 14th of September or October?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

If a time comes when the children's remains are found will the cps file be made public at an inquest in to the circumstances of their disappearance?

A poster mentioned that if the children were alive , with the fact there is prior cps involvement the public may never be told if they were being hidden for their wellbeing by mbm . So would the public be led to believe they where still missing?



Imo ,no one can deny circumstances weren't good in the home as these statements indicate ,even if we just address the lack of money to meet basic needs . The tension and mental health issues this causes can make for a difficult environment for kids to thrive and adults to function with full engagement of parenting imo .

I'm assuming when reports are made from the school to cps they are viewing the whole picture concerning the child's wellbeing. If we have circumstances where a parent is not being open in regard to conversation about the difficulties causing the neglectful appearance of the children . School staff can report so they can find out the underlying issue from a third party ( cps) I feel if more schools reported in circumstances where there are unsure reasons ,children may not slip under the radar .

I agree that most of the debates about this case is speculative as we really don't know much . If what is being released is the tip of the iceberg god only knows what happened

I think DM said it best in his sit down interview " there is a lot going on that the public aren't aware of "

I think if Jack and Lilly’s remains are found, or someone moves to have Jack and Lilly declared deceased, and there’s an inquest, the results will be made public.

Years ago in Ontario, there was an inquest into the murder of a young girl who was in and out of the care of CPS. When the results of the Coroner’s Inquest were released we learned about the details of their involvement and how many relatives tried to intervene. Unfortunately CPS placed her in what turned out to be an unstable environment where she ultimately was killed.

Background on Jennifer’s case. (I didn’t want to sidetrack the thread). She died trying to save her killer’s mother. A Toronto park is named in her honour of her bravery.

In 1996, Jennifer Koval's-kyj was murdered by her court-ordered caretaker while trying to stop him from murdering his mother. She was in and out of the care of Ontario’s version of CPS for almost her entire life as her mother had mental-health challenges. Instead of putting the name of the biological father on Jennifer’s birth certificate, she put her roommate —or possible partner— as Jennifer’s father, a man suffering from schizophrenia. Almost from birth, Jennifer ended up in and out of foster care. Ultimately, CPS gave the man named on her birth certificate custody as he had some positive involvement in her life. Many people, most notably her maternal grandparents, tried unsuccessfully to get custody.

He ultimately stopped taking his medications needed to control his schizophrenia and murdered his mother. Jennifer walked into the room as he was killing her, she tried to stop him, and he killed her as well.

I don’t see how Jack and Lilly’s paternal relatives can’t get access to CPS’s files on them. The bio dad was paying child support so he was still legally tied to them, despite not being involved.

 

[TMich6811]

I think if Jack and Lilly’s remains are found, or someone moves to have Jack and Lilly declared deceased, and there’s an inquest, the results will be made public.

Years ago in Ontario, there was an inquest into the murder of a young girl who was in and out of the care of CPS. When the results of the Coroner’s Inquest were released we learned about the details of their involvement and how many relatives tried to intervene. Unfortunately CPS placed her in what turned out to be an unstable environment where she ultimately was killed.

Background on Jennifer’s case. (I didn’t want to sidetrack the thread). She died trying to save her killer’s mother. A Toronto park is named in her honour of her bravery.


I don’t see how Jack and Lilly’s paternal relatives can’t get access to CPS’s files on them. The bio dad was paying child support so he was still legally tied to them, despite not being involved.

In the US you can lose both physical and legal (we call this MedEd) guardianship - no rights to them at all- but still be responsible for child support. Is that a similar thing there?

 

[steff13]

In the US you can lose both physical and legal (we call this MedEd) guardianship - no rights to them at all- but still be responsible for child support. Is that a similar thing there?

Yeah, you can sign away your legal rights to your child but that doesn't absolve you from financial responsibility unless the child is adopted by someone else.

I don't know what the situation with that is in Canada but the only thing that we do know is that the biological father's mother said that he no longer has legal rights to the children and that he signed them away. Maybe that's not legally possible but that's what she said.

 

[MistyWaters]

Hasn’t heard this before, another explanation for the bootprint at the pipeline trail recalling the tracking dog was unable to detect a trail. If other people along with their young children were searching, thinking they were just being helpful, I can see how that’d create confusion.

Warrants in Jack and Lilly Sullivan case raise questions but have few answers

If there are clues for finding Lilly and Jack Sullivan in the warrant documents, they’re redacted. If there’s hope, it can be taken from the extent and thoroughness they show of the efforts by RCMP investigators and search and rescue teams who have been seeking the two missing Pictou County...

www.saltwire.com

“(Search and rescue) heard reports of people with kids out searching,” reads the RCMP synopsis of the investigation into the boots.
“So they were not sure the boot prints belonged to Lilly and Jack. They did think it was an out of the way area for people to bring their kids to search.”

Same link, torn blanket and rags too?
“On the evening of the Friday that Jack and Lilly disappeared, family members found a torn piece of pink blanket in bushes off the Lansdowne Station Road, a kilometre from the home. Below it on the ground were some rags. Brooks-Murray and Martell confirmed it was a piece of Lilly’s blanket.”

 

[MistyWaters]

I don’t see how Jack and Lilly’s paternal relatives can’t get access to CPS’s files on them. The bio dad was paying child support so he was still legally tied to them, despite not being involved.

I don’t think the file would be released to ‘family members’ nor does the biogram have any legal standing in Canada pertaining to grandchildren. Does the biodad want to get involved, we don’t know that. He’s an adult so his mother can’t act on his behalf. She seems to be the one pointing the fingers of blame, he’s silent. The biodad could probably try to petition the courts to get a copy of the CPS file however by the sounds of it, he didn’t contest Maleyha getting sole custody so that could mean, along with waiving his right to make decisions on the children’s behalf, he also waived his entitlement to matters of their care in general.
JMO

 

[Slebby]

I don’t think the file would be released to ‘family members’ nor does the biogram have any legal standing in Canada pertaining to grandchildren. Does the biodad want to get involved, we don’t know that. He’s an adult so his mother can’t act on his behalf. She seems to be the one pointing the fingers of blame, he’s silent. The biodad could probably try to petition the courts to get a copy of the CPS file however by the sounds of it, he didn’t contest Maleyha getting sole custody so that could mean, along with waiving his right to make decisions on the children’s behalf, he also waived his entitlement to matters of their care in general.
JMO

In what way is “biogram” BG pointing fingers of blame? At who?
What I’m seeing is a victim in this, a grandma who has lost her precious grandchildren through no fault of her own, now asking important questions about what might have led to their disappearance. She’s calling for a public inquiry, which, imo, would be a good thing.

As a gramma myself, I cannot imagine her grief, fearing they’re gone forever. I for one am glad she’s a strong advocate for Lily and Jack.
IMHO

 

[TMich6811]

In what way is “biogram” BG pointing fingers of blame? At who?
What I’m seeing is a victim in this, a grandma who has lost her precious grandchildren through no fault of her own, now asking important questions about what might have led to their disappearance. She’s calling for a public inquiry, which, imo, would be a good thing.

As a gramma myself, I cannot imagine her grief, fearing they’re gone forever. I for one am glad she’s a strong advocate for Lily and Jack.
IMHO

Right? Good for her. Being louder than their own mother is so I don’t care if she’s grandma or Dolly Parton, at least she’s doing something.

 

[MistyWaters]

In what way is “biogram” BG pointing fingers of blame? At who?
What I’m seeing is a victim in this, a grandma who has lost her precious grandchildren through no fault of her own, now asking important questions about what might have led to their disappearance. She’s calling for a public inquiry, which, imo, would be a good thing.

As a gramma myself, I cannot imagine her grief, fearing they’re gone forever. I for one am glad she’s a strong advocate for Lily and Jack.
IMHO

It’s too late to become an advocate in my opinion.

How’s a copy of a CPS report going to help find the children?

 

[Slebby]

It’s too late to become an advocate in my opinion.

How’s a copy of a CPS report going to help find the children?

I’ve not seen her asking for a copy of a report, but maybe I missed that. What was reported in the Globe and Mail was her call for a public inquiry both into how the RCMP handled the disappearance as well as the CPS investigation, in case there were warning signs that were overlooked.
I’m not sure what you mean by “it’s too late to become an advocate”.

IMO

 

[su5ie]

I’ve not seen her asking for a copy of a report, but maybe I missed that. What was reported in the Globe and Mail was her call for a public inquiry both into how the RCMP handled the disappearance as well as the CPS investigation, in case there were warning signs that were overlooked.
I’m not sure what you mean by “it’s too late to become an advocate”.

IMO

Possibly meaning BG should have advocated for her grandchildren within the 2 year timeframe she did not see them or Possibly is seen that she didn't push hard enough or encourage her son to maintain contact so at least she could see them even if he didn't want too .

Prehaps being too reliant on the good will of mbm to continue the grandchild / grandmother relationship was in hindsight a mistake on her part and her grief and prehaps guilt from that has spurred her into action now . Doing something is better than doing nothing for state of mind

Because I'm assuming Canadian law doesn't grant grandparents rights as a given prehaps BGs energy would best be used campaigning for this to come into law alongside of her request for an inquiry . It might get a stronger backing than her campaigning for something she can't really get because the law makers / courts may see that requesting an inquiry is the job of a legal guardian?

Does Canadian law allow for a mediation process with a third party concerning grandparents and ex partners of their adult children where grandkids are concerned so even if sons sign away rights or are just deadbeats. grandparents even though not written in law can manage to have a relationship with their grandkids . Or is it just tough luck your son doesn't want to see them so that means you too ?

I'm just wondering if BG could have done anything within those two years or where her hands tied completely

 

[su5ie]

Possibly meaning BG should have advocated for her grandchildren within the 2 year timeframe she did not see them or Possibly is seen that she didn't push hard enough or encourage her son to maintain contact so at least she could see them even if he didn't want too .

Prehaps being too reliant on the good will of mbm to continue the grandchild / grandmother relationship was in hindsight a mistake on her part and her grief and prehaps guilt from that has spurred her into action now . Doing something is better than doing nothing for state of mind

Because I'm assuming Canadian law doesn't grant grandparents rights as a given prehaps BGs energy would best be used campaigning for this to come into law alongside of her request for an inquiry . It might get a stronger backing than her campaigning for something she can't really get because the law makers / courts may see that requesting an inquiry is the job of a legal guardian?

Does Canadian law allow for a mediation process with a third party concerning grandparents and ex partners of their adult children where grandkids are concerned so even if sons sign away rights or are just deadbeats. grandparents even though not written in law can manage to have a relationship with their grandkids . Or is it just tough luck your son doesn't want to see them so that means you too ?

I'm just wondering if BG could have done anything within those two years or where her hands tied completely

I used sons here when describing a parent who wants to cut contact with biological children as its BGs son not a daughter that was not involved. For clarity and gender equality there is also deadbeat mothers

 

[su5ie]

I was looking up grandparents rights in Canada and came across these articles. It would appear one can apply for access to see your grandchildren through a contact order and also if you qualify for free legal aid this is granted for cases under that heading if there is a change you will succeed

Parenting time (formerly access) - Legal Aid Ontario

Parenting time (formerly access) is the right to visit—or be visited by—your children. It also means the right to get information on your child’s health, education and well being. People often get confused by decision-making responsibility (formerly custody) and parenting time. Decision-making...

www.legalaid.on.ca

Grandparents Rights in Ontario | SD&A

We are experienced in helping family members understand the rights grandparents have to seek parenting, contact, and access to their grandchildren. Contact us.

www.stephendurbinandassociates.com

Belynda is a victim in all this and I'm not aware of what circumstances surrounded her not seeing the children and if she tried this route and didn't succeed.

I was just curious to see if grandparents have any route to seeing beloved grandchildren in scenarios where their sons or daughters don't want to be involved ,

it seemed unfair if grandparents did nothing wrong and lost out on cherished relationships because of decisions made by deadbeat sons and daughters

 

[MistyWaters]

Possibly meaning BG should have advocated for her grandchildren within the 2 year timeframe she did not see them or Possibly is seen that she didn't push hard enough or encourage her son to maintain contact so at least she could see them even if he didn't want too .

Prehaps being too reliant on the good will of mbm to continue the grandchild / grandmother relationship was in hindsight a mistake on her part and her grief and prehaps guilt from that has spurred her into action now . Doing something is better than doing nothing for state of mind

Because I'm assuming Canadian law doesn't grant grandparents rights as a given prehaps BGs energy would best be used campaigning for this to come into law alongside of her request for an inquiry . It might get a stronger backing than her campaigning for something she can't really get because the law makers / courts may see that requesting an inquiry is the job of a legal guardian?

Does Canadian law allow for a mediation process with a third party concerning grandparents and ex partners of their adult children where grandkids are concerned so even if sons sign away rights or are just deadbeats. grandparents even though not written in law can manage to have a relationship with their grandkids . Or is it just tough luck your son doesn't want to see them so that means you too ?

I'm just wondering if BG could have done anything within those two years or where her hands tied completely

Exactly! I don’t buy the story that the onus was on Maleyha to bring the children over to visit her. That seems a feeble excuse for her not having seen the children for two or three years. As commonly happens, once her son was out of the picture seems like she also shut the children out of her life. It’s never the children’s fault when families split up, they don’t understand why visits to grandmothers never happen again. An ex-grandmother who intends to maintain a relationship with her grandchildren has to take some part in making it happen. They only lived 1/2 hr away, is my understanding.

Until the RCMP announce they have exhausted all avenues of their investigation, it’s unrealistic to expect a public inquiry. An inquiry to determine the involvement of CPS and the RCMP’s early action, if not to insinuate blame, then what would be the point as it can’t be known at this time if either impacted the children’s unsolved disappearance. If she really does care about the children, she should not want to disrupt the course of the investigation (which according to police reports, one avenue has involved her very own son).
JMO

 

[Slebby]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/lilly-jack-sullivan-grandmother-missing-children-1.7563400

From the article:
Despite the fallout, Gray wanted to maintain her own relationship with the children and Brooks-Murray had no objections.
"Any time we wanted to see the kids, she'd come by for a visit. She'd bring them by all the time," Gray said.
But contact between Gray and her grandchildren eventually dwindled and stopped completely after Brooks-Murray moved in with her new boyfriend, Daniel Martell, in Lansdowne Station.
- -
In fairness to BG, it sounds like she did maintain a relationship with the children up until the move in with DM.
As a grandmother, I try to maintain a respectful boundary with my DIL and with requesting visits with my granddaughter. If my DIL and my son were to split, I imagine it would make visits trickier. It doesn’t sound to me like BG just gave up, imo.
I see BG as a victim in need of our compassion. My heart hurts for her.

IMHO

 

[MistyWaters]

I was looking up grandparents rights in Canada and came across these articles. It would appear one can apply for access to see your grandchildren through a contact order and also if you qualify for free legal aid this is granted for cases under that heading if there is a change you will succeed

Parenting time (formerly access) - Legal Aid Ontario

Parenting time (formerly access) is the right to visit—or be visited by—your children. It also means the right to get information on your child’s health, education and well being. People often get confused by decision-making responsibility (formerly custody) and parenting time. Decision-making...

www.legalaid.on.ca

View attachment 611898

Grandparents Rights in Ontario | SD&A

We are experienced in helping family members understand the rights grandparents have to seek parenting, contact, and access to their grandchildren. Contact us.

www.stephendurbinandassociates.com

Belynda is a victim in all this and I'm not aware of what circumstances surrounded her not seeing the children and if she tried this route and didn't succeed.

I was just curious to see if grandparents have any route to seeing beloved grandchildren in scenarios where their sons or daughters don't want to be involved ,

it seemed unfair if grandparents did nothing wrong and lost out on cherished relationships because of decisions made by deadbeat sons and daughters

Unless a grandparent is perceived to be a negative influence, I can’t think of a reason why a single parent wouldn’t appreciate voluntary regular mini visits between grandparents and the children, which generally would occur during joint custody.

But in this situation, the biodad didn’t want visitation arrangements with Lilly and Jack. Considering he was most recently living at the home of his mother, that would make for somewhat awkward and complicated situation.
JMO