CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

[musicaljoke]

Yeah, it would always be a bit of a rush, both in the fall and again in the spring, although I think the spring would give a greater window of opportunity. But, every year is a bit different, so who knows. They won't likely have much time to search.

ETA, Cadaver dogs can have success searching through snow, so they may be able to search in the winter,

Correction l.. searching in the winter is not recommended. Neither is searching in the summer.

"Inclement weather can also affect a search. Working during winter months on frozen or snow-covered ground is not recommended. The summer months may also present challenges to detection, since hot temperatures cause odours to rise quickly from the earth’s surface, reducing detectability. The most ideal search times are the spring and fall, when the weather is cooler and the scent remains closer to the ground, but searches can continue in the summer months if conducted early or late in the day. Areas with dense vegetation are also challenging for odour detection and naturally take longer to survey than areas lacking debris."

Historic Human Remains Detection Dogs

Dogs have an extraordinary ability to detect scents - and they can be trained to identify the location of specific scents, including that of human burials.Author: Sarah Beaulieu

coa.ubc.ca

 

[su5ie]

Does everyone remember from janies interview, she mentions her dog barking . I was wondering if people can remember if she said the dog barked before or after she heard the kids .

I also wondered did the dog usually bark to alert for family members coming and going in the yard or only to alert for animals and strangers . I know its impossible to speculate as the question was not asked but it would be great to know .

 

[Twistinginthewind]

^^ This in my opinion. I can imagine, the priorities were about the same before Lilly and Jack disappeared.

For what it's worth, I agree with both of your opinions on this @su5ie and @FromGermany1

In my mind that MBM's priorities were what they were before and after they disappeared, perhaps one and the same?

With a gentle caveat of my own, though, that if MBM was subsuming herself to DM for her own and her three children's well being and survival in a nonideal home life situation, to, as the saying goes "go along to get along", she could have very well been in "fawn" mode, IMO.

Of the age old overarching trope of human trauma or stress response, the threesome of the "fight, flight, or fawn".

Posted upthread in MSM links I read back when:

Her father said she had been wanting to leave DM for months.

Her mother and/or grandmother said DM would hold her down and take away her phone and used the word "scared", as in she, MBM, was in a scared living situation with DM and her three children.

Her partner with anger and drug and alcohol struggles or issues he has admitted to in public.

And there were financial strains as well on their "2 years together living there" family unit.

So 6 or so months on from her giving birth to his daughter who was 18 months old at the time her 2 older children disappeared, was the nexus of their 24 months together.

Re their finances surrounding the time Lilly and Jack disappeared:

MBM was a young mom with 3 small children who was not working, so she had no steady income, except presumably, governmental assistance, which it was stated in MSM could have been recently jeopardized by DM as a custodial parent "not filing taxes" or something along those lines.

DM was a young father of 5, 2 his older ones with another mother/ex, and 1 with MBM, as well as her 2 older ones with another father/ex, and he had been laid off from full time work and was working 1 or 2 overnight shifts a week, catch as catch can, IIRC.

So although they were possibly living "for free" in the trailer home on his family's property, and Lilly and Jack were attending free public school and taking the free bus and perhaps getting free meals or snacks while at school, and they could maybe do their laundry "for free" at relative's places, and shop for essentials at the Dollarama store, and their 18 month old daughter's needs weren't much...

IMO, it was probably a very difficult financial situation to be in, with them wanting to provide play structures and a pool for the kids, which were still "in the works" on their property by DM and his family on their shared property at the time.

Anyway, what I'm leading up to here, is that, IMO, DM and MBM were possibly really struggling.

And were doing their level best to take care of their family(ies), and themselves, and it was really hard just the same, no matter what kind of help or assistance they were getting. They were still living "in rural poverty", IMO, just trying to and doing their best.

And IMO, MBM was in the most difficult situation any woman and mom could be in, with no escape hatch at the ready when her two children disappeared, until they did, and she ran from an incredibly fraught and difficult living situation right away, and did what she did to survive and protect herself and Meadow.

I realize there are many sides to every story, and there is no hard evidence MBM was in a domestic violence (DV) situation, or wasn't in control of her own life and able to make her own decisions for herself or her children utilizing the resources she had to hand.

However, finally getting to my point...

IMO, she could have been flat out scared and alone living there with him and on the auspices of his family, and sort of estranged from hers (e.g., can only hint things are a bit going sideways, but can't say what exactly if she is a "kept woman", again just able to care for her youngest foremost and herself and Lilly and Jack as best she could relying on DM who was trying too)...

And she had been beyond desperate to get away from DM of late, for months on end possibly, and was barely holding her head above water.

I don't think anyone can truly imagine what her life was really like, nor how disempowered she felt or was going through at the time her sweet kids didappeared...

The duress and stress she could have been under could have been insurmountable, and if she had "no quarter", she had to revert to:

"flight" -- leaving her home of 2 years where she was a victim of circumstance, IMO

After "fight" and "fawn" didn't work -- trying to tell people what was going on and trying to keep the peace and DM holding her down and taking her phone/lifeline away.

She has my utmost respect and empathy as a mother and possible victim of DV under a possibly horrifying home life situation she had no easy way out of, IMO.

One final note, is, by the way, in some countries/provinces just verbal abuse or threatening behavior or coercive control on the part of their partner is legally considered DV.

And the government provides a stipend of up to $5,000 for a woman subject to DV, even if "just verbal or coercive control" to relocate to a place where she will be safe.

In Australia, for example.

In other countries too.

 

[twomoresmores]

I'm presuming no one has seen any further mention of the searches that were due to take place?

 

[BCSleuth]

[...]

Her father said she had been wanting to leave DM for months.

Her mother and/or grandmother said DM would hold her down and take away her phone and used the word "scared", as in she, MBM, was in a scared living situation with DM and her three children.

[...]

Very interesting.

Does someone have a source for what the father said? I was able to find a source for the second statement:

"After the children’s disappearance, Malehya also confided in her paternal grandmother, [...]. She described how Daniel would hold her down and take her phone. 'He was having her, I don’t know what you call it, scared.'"

Source is Globe and Mail, here.

(Unfortunate that Globe and Mail wants $8/week. That's pretty steep!)

So that explains, then, why she left so suddenly and blocked him on social media. She was ready to leave anyway.

I really want to know, for sure, when MBM last saw the kids. Did she see them when she phoned them in sick at around 6AM? Did she really see Lilly later that morning? Or is that just narrative provided by DM?

 

[su5ie]

Very interesting.

Does someone have a source for what the father said? I was able to find a source for the second statement:

"After the children’s disappearance, Malehya also confided in her paternal grandmother, [...]. She described how Daniel would hold her down and take her phone. 'He was having her, I don’t know what you call it, scared.'"

Source is Globe and Mail, here.

(Unfortunate that Globe and Mail wants $8/week. That's pretty steep!)

So that explains, then, why she left so suddenly and blocked him on social media. She was ready to leave anyway.

I really want to know, for sure, when MBM last saw the kids. Did she see them when she phoned them in sick at around 6AM? Did she really see Lilly later that morning? Or is that just narrative provided by DM?

Yes I would like to know if she seen the kids that morning . From recall but I could be wrong I think it is only Daniel that seen lilly come in the room and jack in kitchen

I think this is where Maleyhas family were able to accuse DM because she did not know if DM did something or not because she couldn't back up his statement

 

[su5ie]

Very interesting.

Does someone have a source for what the father said? I was able to find a source for the second statement:

"After the children’s disappearance, Malehya also confided in her paternal grandmother, [...]. She described how Daniel would hold her down and take her phone. 'He was having her, I don’t know what you call it, scared.'"

Source is Globe and Mail, here.

(Unfortunate that Globe and Mail wants $8/week. That's pretty steep!)

So that explains, then, why she left so suddenly and blocked him on social media. She was ready to leave anyway.

I really want to know, for sure, when MBM last saw the kids. Did she see them when she phoned them in sick at around 6AM? Did she really see Lilly later that morning? Or is that just narrative provided by DM?

I recall an article in an earlier thread talking about Maleyha attempting to leave DM on previous occasions. It was the same article I think as the statement about holding her down .

 

[su5ie]

I'm presuming no one has seen any further mention of the searches that were due to take place?

No been checking twice daily morning and night on approved and unapproved sources

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Very interesting.

Does someone have a source for what the father said? I was able to find a source for the second statement:

"After the children’s disappearance, Malehya also confided in her paternal grandmother, [...]. She described how Daniel would hold her down and take her phone. 'He was having her, I don’t know what you call it, scared.'"

Source is Globe and Mail, here.

(Unfortunate that Globe and Mail wants $8/week. That's pretty steep!)

So that explains, then, why she left so suddenly and blocked him on social media. She was ready to leave anyway.

I really want to know, for sure, when MBM last saw the kids. Did she see them when she phoned them in sick at around 6AM? Did she really see Lilly later that morning? Or is that just narrative provided by DM?

Regarding MBM's father and what I recall he said about her telling him she wanted to leave for months, I can't find an MSM link to that right now. It could have been removed. Or maybe I've misspoken about that, sorry if that's the case, but I personally do not read anything on SM (Youtube or Reddit, etc.) on cases I follow here that I would mention here, so can't say where I got that, I truly thought it was posted here early on with a link in MSM.

I also want to know when MBM last saw Lilly or Jack and if LE has been able to confirm what she stated.

In addition, what DM was doing the night before and that morning and if LE has been able to confirm what he stated.

From the beginning of following this case here on WS and somewhat regularly searching for updates on MSM, primarily using Google Canada's search engine:

I've felt there are possibly some really important details which are unknown on the hours between the "proof of life" of Lilly and Jack on video footage shopping with their family the day before, and both of them, 4 and 6 year old siblings disappearing together from home the next morning.

It's nothing new for me to wonder, of course, and perhaps or probably LE know more on what was able to be confirmed on the "timeframe", but AFAIK, LE has not been able to publicly state they know when they were last seen besides in public shopping the day before, and the rest is uncomfirmed, IMO.

So a gap exists, of say 18 hours (?) between them being seen shopping with their family on the afternoon before and their mom calling 911 the next morning.

I'm here for the duration for little Jack and Lilly, until they are found, or justice for them comes from some aspect of LE's knowledge from their investigation, even if it's a best guess, which tragically happens in some cases, as to what happened to them after they "left home" by wandering or otherwise.

Hope springs eternal LE will find something/anything enlightening as to what happened soon as they are working so hard on it.

MOO

 

[Bigditch]

Does everyone remember from janies interview, she mentions her dog barking . I was wondering if people can remember if she said the dog barked before or after she heard the kids .

I also wondered did the dog usually bark to alert for family members coming and going in the yard or only to alert for animals and strangers . I know its impossible to speculate as the question was not asked but it would be great to know .

My recollection is the dog barked when the kids came outside. According to Janie.

 

[Slebby]

Twistinginthewind, I think it’s possible you’re remembering correctly the comment about MBM wanting to leave DM but attributing it to the wrong grandparent. In the same Globe and Mail Aug 8 article, it was BG who said MBM didn’t want to stay there, BG said if she had known, she would have helped, and MBM said yes, her mother said the same thing. Paraphrasing.
IMHO

 

[su5ie]

My recollection is the dog barked when the kids came outside. According to Janie.

I also recall janie said she didn't look outside when this occurred, she stated she only heard the kids .

Now if this moment was the cusp of the disappearance is it not plausible that the dog could for all sense and purposes been barking because the kids were not alone

Edited for spelling mistakes

 

[Serononin]

I also recall janie said she didn't look outside when this occurred, she stated she only heard the kids .

Now if this moment was the cusp of the disappearance is it not plausible that the dog could for all sense and purposes been barking because the kids were not alone

Edited for spelling mistakes

Perhaps, but I think if Janie thought that was a serious possibility, she would have played it up (or at least mentioned it) in her interview in order to direct suspicion away from DM and the family

 

[su5ie]

I came across this thread as it was referenced by another poster really interesting

Thread 'Remains Found in Area After LE/SAR Searches' Remains Found in Area After LE/SAR Searches

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Does everyone remember from janies interview, she mentions her dog barking . I was wondering if people can remember if she said the dog barked before or after she heard the kids .

I also wondered did the dog usually bark to alert for family members coming and going in the yard or only to alert for animals and strangers . I know its impossible to speculate as the question was not asked but it would be great to know .

IIRC, Janie said her dog was barking after she said she "heard them playing outside".

Good question on whether Janie's dog had a tendency to bark about regular comings and goings all the time, or at any unusual or unfamiliar noises/smells/presences or activities of humans or animals which may have alerted the dog and caused it to bark.

Most people I know who live rurally and have a dog rely on it to bark to alert of unusual comings and goings, and that's one of the primary reasons they have a dog.

It also depends on the training, breed, and temperament of the dog.

I live rurally and have neighbors whose dogs are trained from a pup to bark at a potential threat/to alert their owners, and others who bark at anything they sense, hear, see which is out of the ordinary for them.

I think they all share an awareness of "out of ordinary" happenings regardless, in their own contexts, and alert to it instinctually by barking and/or growling and/or raising their hackles.

Some dogs have an extremely high "arousal response" to any little thing, and it can be a precursor to them attacking. Whereas other dogs may not be aroused and able to sleep through anything and/or ignore things going on around them, i.e., if they are more docile.

So it would be interesting to know more about Janie's dog's training, breed, and/or barking behaviors as you've said, and whether her dog barking as she said it was that morning could have any bearing on the happenings on or around their rural property that morning when Lilly and Jack went missing.

IMO, if her dog was barking (and it was more fierce than usual) around the time they went missing, and her son DM said after LE arrived he thought he heard screaming but it was drowned out by the noise of search helicopters...

Well, then, maybe it could mean something taken together that the dog heard or sensed something unusual and a bit later, DM said he heard screaming that morning.

MOO

 

[su5ie]

IIRC, Janie said her dog was barking after she said she "heard them playing outside".

Good question on whether Janie's dog had a tendency to bark about regular comings and goings all the time, or at any unusual or unfamiliar noises/smells/presences or activities of humans or animals which may have alerted the dog and caused it to bark.

Most people I know who live rurally and have a dog rely on it to bark to alert of unusual comings and goings, and that's one of the primary reasons they have a dog.

It also depends on the training, breed, and temperament of the dog.

I live rurally and have neighbors whose dogs are trained from a pup to bark at a potential threat/to alert their owners, and others who bark at anything they sense, hear, see which is out of the ordinary for them.

I think they all share an awareness of "out of ordinary" happenings regardless, in their own contexts, and alert to it instinctually by barking and/or growling and/or raising their hackles.

Some dogs have an extremely high "arousal response" to any little thing, and it can be a precursor to them attacking. Whereas other dogs may not be aroused and able to sleep through anything and/or ignore things going on around them, i.e., if they are more docile.

So it would be interesting to know more about Janie's dog's training, breed, and/or barking behaviors as you've said, and whether her dog barking as she said it was that morning could have any bearing on the happenings on or around their rural property that morning when Lilly and Jack went missing.

IMO, if her dog was barking (and it was more fierce than usual) around the time they went missing, and her son DM said after LE arrived he thought he heard screaming but it was drowned out by the noise of search helicopters...

Well, then, maybe it could mean something taken together that the dog heard or sensed something unusual and a bit later, DM said he heard screaming that morning.

MOO

I can't understand why DM seemed to add this thought to hear screaming later in the narrative tbh . I'm doubtful of the validity of this statement from him solely because it would have shut down a lot of rumour and fingerpointing early on if he had said it right at the beginning ,say when he gave the interview statement saying leave Malehya alone

 

[Slebby]

I can't understand why DM seemed to add this thought to hear screaming later in the narrative tbh . I'm doubtful of the validity of this statement from him solely because it would have shut down a lot of rumour and fingerpointing early on if he had said it right at the beginning ,say when he gave the interview statement saying leave Malehya alone

To be clear, from the documents released, DM said he “thought” he heard a scream, but when he stopped, any sound was drowned out by a helicopter. To me this did not sound like a certainty a scream was heard. IMHO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Twistinginthewind, I think it’s possible you’re remembering correctly the comment about MBM wanting to leave DM but attributing it to the wrong grandparent. In the same Globe and Mail Aug 8 article, it was BG who said MBM didn’t want to stay there, BG said if she had known, she would have helped, and MBM said yes, her mother said the same thing. Paraphrasing.
IMHO

Thanks, Slebby. I appreciate you bringing this up as a possibility it was BG. And I recall what she said about MBM "living scared", paraphrasing.

What I was recalling, perhaps incorrectly, but my memory is like a steel trap usually, was...

MBM's father Henry Brooks and his mother/her grandmother Connie Brooks were interviewed at some point, and IIRC, so was MBM's stepfather (one of her mother's partners, current or past, who had been involved in raising her at some point?).

So maybe it was her stepfather or some father figure of hers from her past upbringing, and not her biological father, I read had said that.

It's not really an important detail, I suppose, in and amongst the other details in my post, for which I was paraphrasing from memory as having been linked here upthread.

I don't wish to derail things here any further on such a minor detail, so apologies, and this is all I'll say about what I recall going forward.

IMOO, there have been plenty of times on other cases I followed and posted on here, when an MSM link to an article or photo or video "early on" "went away" later, and could no longer be relied on.

There are many methods and means, again, IMOO, for interested parties to "scrub" publicly available links from the internet as time goes by, and perhaps in the interest of privacy of people involved and/or the integrity of an investigation, which may have been determined by the professionals to be unnecessary to keep "live".

JMHO, and I could be wrong about him (MBM's father or maybe stepfather or father figure) being the one to say she was wanting to leave DM for months, but it was a man in MBM's extended family, in my recollection, FWIW.

 

[Bigditch]

I came across this thread as it was referenced by another poster really interesting

Thread 'Remains Found in Area After LE/SAR Searches' Remains Found in Area After LE/SAR Searches

Wow. How interesting.

 

[Serononin]

IIRC, Janie said her dog was barking after she said she "heard them playing outside".

Good question on whether Janie's dog had a tendency to bark about regular comings and goings all the time, or at any unusual or unfamiliar noises/smells/presences or activities of humans or animals which may have alerted the dog and caused it to bark.

Most people I know who live rurally and have a dog rely on it to bark to alert of unusual comings and goings, and that's one of the primary reasons they have a dog.

It also depends on the training, breed, and temperament of the dog.

I live rurally and have neighbors whose dogs are trained from a pup to bark at a potential threat/to alert their owners, and others who bark at anything they sense, hear, see which is out of the ordinary for them.

I think they all share an awareness of "out of ordinary" happenings regardless, in their own contexts, and alert to it instinctually by barking and/or growling and/or raising their hackles.

Some dogs have an extremely high "arousal response" to any little thing, and it can be a precursor to them attacking. Whereas other dogs may not be aroused and able to sleep through anything and/or ignore things going on around them, i.e., if they are more docile.

So it would be interesting to know more about Janie's dog's training, breed, and/or barking behaviors as you've said, and whether her dog barking as she said it was that morning could have any bearing on the happenings on or around their rural property that morning when Lilly and Jack went missing.

IMO, if her dog was barking (and it was more fierce than usual) around the time they went missing, and her son DM said after LE arrived he thought he heard screaming but it was drowned out by the noise of search helicopters...

Well, then, maybe it could mean something taken together that the dog heard or sensed something unusual and a bit later, DM said he heard screaming that morning.

MOO

I obviously can't answer most of those questions, but based on the dog's brief appearance in JM's interview, the breed appeared to be a poodle or doodle of some kind IIRC. I know my parents' toy poodle mix gets what I can only describe as FOMO and starts barking if she sees any of us in the yard without her