CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

[MistyWaters]

IMO as a parent, it is very very strange she has been silent since the day they disappeared. I definitely wouldn't be giving any thought whatsoever to my dignity but rather every ounce of my being to locating my child and in this case TWO of her children which IMO includes making public appeals.

Public appeals are unnecessary if the children wandered into the forest and eventually perished. Maybe she’s come to terms with accepting that conclusion?

 

[OneLove]

But you’re assuming there was a criminal element involved in their disappearance. The RCMP recently stated they’ve found nothing to indicate the children are dead therefore they’ve not found evidence to indicate anyone was involved in their deaths.

So it would be a natural progression to involve cadaver dogs to assist in determining if indeed the children perished in the forest, no foul play involved.

What value would it serve to give up your last shred of ‘dignity’ in advance of the RCMP’s plans to search?
JMO

There are other viable ways the kids could have disappeared & even still be alive, maybe even hearing about searches. It has happened before. A random drive by took them home then gave them to someone else, a family member squirreled them away, a well meaning but mentally challenged adult took them home "to play", something tribal, a school-adjacemt worker "took matters into their own hamds", a sexual deviant has them, and other possibilities.

There was a boy taken from his school bus stop in Missouri, held for several years by a sexual deviant who was a pizza manager. The kid was sex trafficked across state lines for his pleasure & personal gain. Kid was chained up at home while captor worked long work shifts. He watched his parents plead tirelessly for the duration on TV & knew they never gave up on finding him alive. It gave him strength to live until he escaped. And my own story: I had a 6th grade student who had been kidnapped from a convenience store by a trucker, traded truck to truck for a year, kept docile by needle drugs & nakedness, & escaped by rolling out of the road-work slowed truck on the interstate and running nude across traffic to the other side of the median. The girl's mother NEVER quit pleading for her return. She was an amazing young woman to have survived her ordeal. Knowing she had strong family gave her both hope and strength.

 

[LadyL]

Disappearance of Lilly and Jack Sullivan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"... The siblings' maternal grandmother Cyndy Murray spoke with The Canadian Press over the phone, stating that the family is hoping and praying for the recovery of the children. She also stated that police had advised the family "against speaking to the media".
Rbm.
If this is accurate, it may explain why MBM left early on and is silent ?

Also in every missing child case I've followed this is the first one , where LE told the family they could not hold a press conference and plead for the children's safe return; or give reporters information to get Lilly and Jack's pics and information out there.
It's difficult to believe LE would tell the family this.
Again if this is accurate, maybe C.M. misunderstood LE ?

Some families would ignore it in desperation and at least ask if they could hold a presser, or do anything.
Let people know what the kids are like, what their fav. tv shows are, afraid of bugs ? Fav. foods.
What IF they're alive somewhere ?
Omo.

When Jayme Closs went missing her family held a press conf. and even described her favorite coffee drink ?

From missing to found alive: A timeline of the Jayme Closs case

The search for Jayme Closs ended Thursday when she was found alive in northwest Wisconsin.

www.kare11.com

Advised against it is not the same as being told they couldn't JMO.

 

[Chimera]

The young woman already has experienced deep trauma by her children going missing, maybe she doesn’t want to put herself on public display where surely more judgement will follow, it’s her call.

I agree with this sentiment however she has been putting herself on display in social media pictures - you are right, it is her call but you wouldn't find many other missing children's mothers leaving the scene of the disappearance the day after, never to return and never to again address her missing children publicly. Its a very unusual set of circumstances which I think gives rise to people questioning.

Bbm.
I don't follow SM very much but it sounds like MBM would be ok with public exposure, then ?

It seems like she cooperated with LE/RCMP when they contacted her, but they haven't said she initiated contact towards them, i.e., called them for updates or to schedule a presser.

Here's a question : Is it possible in the beginning, if LE asked either mom or boyfriend to speak up publicly to raise awareness ?
Even though the kids wouldn't necessarily try to call home if they saw a presser on tv ... it would help get more attention to the case and that's important.
Again if LE have never done that, b/c they know what they have, but not enough evidence, then this case takes a different turn altogether.
Imo.

As far as the second bolded ; Yes, like I'd stated earlier -- this is the first missing kid's case where the bio parent left the house the kids lived in and cut contact with the other adult who lived with her.
It would be odd if people did not question the choices made.
Omo.

 

[Chimera]

Advised against it is not the same as being told they couldn't JMO.

Agreed.
Thanks for clarifying that.
I was thinking the same, but didn't say it.
So nothing preventing anyone from speaking out, then ?
Imo.

 

[LadyL]

Agreed.
Thanks for clarifying that.
I was thinking the same, but didn't say it.
So nothing preventing anyone from speaking out, then ?
Imo.

as in every case, there is nothing illegal about speaking to the media
there is also nothing illegal or wrong about not speaking to the media, especially when advised against by police

 

[Bigditch]

There are other viable ways the kids could have disappeared & even still be alive, maybe even hearing about searches. It has happened before. A random drive by took them home then gave them to someone else, a family member squirreled them away, a well meaning but mentally challenged adult took them home "to play", something tribal, a school-adjacemt worker "took matters into their own hamds", a sexual deviant has them, and other possibilities.

There was a boy taken from his school bus stop in Missouri, held for several years by a sexual deviant who was a pizza manager. The kid was sex trafficked across state lines for his pleasure & personal gain. Kid was chained up at home while captor worked long work shifts. He watched his parents plead tirelessly for the duration on TV & knew they never gave up on finding him alive. It gave him strength to live until he escaped. And my own story: I had a 6th grade student who had been kidnapped from a convenience store by a trucker, traded truck to truck for a year, kept docile by needle drugs & nakedness, & escaped by rolling out of the road-work slowed truck on the interstate and running nude across traffic to the other side of the median. The girl's mother NEVER quit pleading for her return. She was an amazing young woman to have survived her ordeal. Knowing she had strong family gave her both hope and strength.

All the above -- heart wrenching.

 

[Chimera]

as in every case, there is nothing illegal about speaking to the media
there is also nothing illegal or wrong about not speaking to the media, especially when advised against by police

Yes, no one said it was wrong or illegal ... but many question not speaking out for the kids.
It's odd advice from LE to not make a plea for their return.
But again LE probably know much more than we do, looking at their actions.
So we wait for a break in this case.
Omo.

 

[sapphire blue]

Thank you for saying that. To me it feels as if observing people who are grieving put on public display is similar to morbid entertainment. As soon as it’s over, then comes the rush of judgement, was she sincere, did she or sound look guilty…it’s easy to forget these are real people, not actors in a movie.
JMO

Exactly. There is no one correct way for a mother (or father) to behave. As an example consider the treatment Lindy Chamberlain received when her baby daughter Azaria disappeared from a campsite. No matter what she did she was judged and found wanting, the vitriol and hatred remains to this day from some who are still convinced she or one of the other children murdered Azaria. People seem to forget these are real people who are navigating a deeply distressing traumatic experience that will affect them for life.

 

[OneLove]

Thank you for saying that. To me it feels as if observing people who are grieving put on public display is similar to morbid entertainment.
JMO

The questions seem to be is she "grieving" because she knows they're dead (even though tracking dogs did not pick up their live scent leaving the property into the woods, only where the driveway enters the road) and why would she assume they're dead based on the information that is (publicly) known by the search and investigation efforts already done?

Given that it is NOT known (at least by anyone else) that they are dead, it's puzzling that she is not pleading for their safe return OR any information that lead to a break in the case.

The situations I have personally seen that were highly publicized and ended in the safe return of precious children that had been kidnapped were thought to have ended successfully, in part, because the parents NEVER gave up on their missing children. They did NOT just start assuming their missing children to be dead and go radio silent leading pol to assume they were grieving. Shock and trauma are certainly unquestionable but assuming your missing children to be dead when NO evidence has pointed to that is.... something that profilers and investigators look very closely into.

The maintenance and updating of Facebook and social media pages by families, jounalists' radio and newspaper spots, law enforcement briefings and updates, local posters at stores, restaurants, in neighborhoods and community boards, have become a routine and even expected part of the effort to bring about safe return of missing children. These almost always involve the families' close participation. Categorizing caring people interested in helping bring those terrifying situations to a satisfying end in any way they can as "morbid entertainment" is... quite the interesting take.

It is very understandable that the mother might be *overwhelmed* and thus mentally/emotionally unable to assist in the recovery effort of her children she started out that morning saying they would "go with anybody and talk to anybody" and leaned toward suggesting someone took them. With nothing that leans toward them walking into those dense woods, including tracking dogs that failed to pick up their scent, it's difficult to think she'd leap to "they're dead in the woods" and call it a day.

 

[Slebby]

I was reviewing some of the info that came out from the released court documents (around Aug 22 iirc)
It got me thinking about the wrench on the door. Apparently DM would place a wrench atop the front door (ie not the sliding glass door) because there has been a bear hanging around.

I live rurally in AB, it would not surprise me to have a black bear thru my yard, I’ve already seen one, scared the liver out of me! We had a mama and her 2 cubs hanging around 2 years ago, caught on our neighbors security cams. On both these occasions, I spent the next couple weeks escorting my dog outside, making a ton of noise, with my trusty bear spray in hand, until I felt sure they’d moved on and were hibernating.

What I know is that bears don’t come to the door. So I question if the wrench above the door was intended for bear detection, or to detect another threat, say, human?

Second, if a bear was hanging around, it surprises me they had garbage outside. Indeed, my garbage is in my garage at the moment, and afaik, I don’t have a bear hanging around. If I couldn’t keep garbage inside, like when I back country camp, I would string it up in a way that bears couldn’t get into it, couldn’t get habituated to dining on my trash, until the trash can be carted away.

Third, if a bear was hanging around, it surprises me the house is not locked down in a way small children could not open a door and get outside. If the sliding door was not lockable I would have a heavy barrier in front of that door, especially given that it is the door leading to their play area.

It’s puzzling to me. It makes me wonder again if there was actually a fear of humans, not bears. Humans use doors, not bears. In fairness to MBM, she might not have been aware of any threats faced by DM and she may have believed a bear had been hanging around. We know of DM’s own admitted drug use, which it seems he kept hidden from MBM for a time (Globe and Mail Aug 8) so its not a stretch to believe he might have kept a threat hidden as well. I am pretty naive to the ways of the criminal drug world, but I do believe it is possible DM could have had interactions with unsavory types, or potentially owed money he could not repay.

Unless cadaver dogs discover something, it looks less likely to me that the children went into the woods. The adults in the home passed polygraphs. One remaining possibility is foul play. A good question LE would ask is, do you have any enemies?

IMHO

 

[Megnut]

I was reviewing some of the info that came out from the released court documents (around Aug 22 iirc)
It got me thinking about the wrench on the door. Apparently DM would place a wrench atop the front door (ie not the sliding glass door) because there has been a bear hanging around.

I live rurally in AB, it would not surprise me to have a black bear thru my yard, I’ve already seen one, scared the liver out of me! We had a mama and her 2 cubs hanging around 2 years ago, caught on our neighbors security cams. On both these occasions, I spent the next couple weeks escorting my dog outside, making a ton of noise, with my trusty bear spray in hand, until I felt sure they’d moved on and were hibernating.

What I know is that bears don’t come to the door. So I question if the wrench above the door was intended for bear detection, or to detect another threat, say, human?

Second, if a bear was hanging around, it surprises me they had garbage outside. Indeed, my garbage is in my garage at the moment, and afaik, I don’t have a bear hanging around. If I couldn’t keep garbage inside, like when I back country camp, I would string it up in a way that bears couldn’t get into it, couldn’t get habituated to dining on my trash, until the trash can be carted away.

Third, if a bear was hanging around, it surprises me the house is not locked down in a way small children could not open a door and get outside. If the sliding door was not lockable I would have a heavy barrier in front of that door, especially given that it is the door leading to their play area.

It’s puzzling to me. It makes me wonder again if there was actually a fear of humans, not bears. Humans use doors, not bears. In fairness to MBM, she might not have been aware of any threats faced by DM and she may have believed a bear had been hanging around. We know of DM’s own admitted drug use, which it seems he kept hidden from MBM for a time (Globe and Mail Aug 8) so its not a stretch to believe he might have kept a threat hidden as well. I am pretty naive to the ways of the criminal drug world, but I do believe it is possible DM could have had interactions with unsavory types, or potentially owed money he could not repay.

Unless cadaver dogs discover something, it looks less likely to me that the children went into the woods. The adults in the home passed polygraphs. One remaining possibility is foul play. A good question LE would ask is, do you have any enemies?

IMHO

If I had to guess, I'd say the wrench was the equivalent of a poor man's security system.

Better'n a lock because locks can be picked. And quietly. But a wrench will fall and fall loudly, giving "the poor man" time to arm himself.

And technically, it would also serve as a security system in the other direction. Nobody's leaving the house by that door either, unless they want to be clobbered by a falling wrench.

However, why jury rig the front door if the slider is unlocked from both sides?

As someone upthread said recently, the "story isn't storying" for me either.

JMO

 

[iveyguy]

New article today. Cadaver dogs searched 40 km but found no trace whatsoever...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/human-remains-were-not-found-during-cadaver-dog-s-search-for-lilly-and-jack-sullivan-9.6931359

In summary: LE is still "considering all possibilities." "We’ll keep going until we determine, with certainty, the circumstances of the children’s disappearance and they’re found,"

 

[iamshadow21]

New article today. Cadaver dogs searched 40 km but found no trace whatsoever...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/human-remains-were-not-found-during-cadaver-dog-s-search-for-lilly-and-jack-sullivan-9.6931359

In summary: LE is still "considering all possibilities." "We’ll keep going until we determine, with certainty, the circumstances of the children’s disappearance and they’re found,"

They may yet be out there, but from the beginning, I've had the gut feeling that they're not there, and that all the searches have been in the wrong place.

There should have been a landfill search within days, in my opinion.

MOO

 

[Chimera]

New article today. Cadaver dogs searched 40 km but found no trace whatsoever...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/human-remains-were-not-found-during-cadaver-dog-s-search-for-lilly-and-jack-sullivan-9.6931359

In summary: LE is still "considering all possibilities." "We’ll keep going until we determine, with certainty, the circumstances of the children’s disappearance and they’re found,"

Certainly can't say LE/RCMP haven't done their due diligence.
Lack of answers doesn't mean no answers.
I believe this case will someday be resolved.
Imo.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Staff Sgt. Stephen Pike of the RCMP Police Dog Services Training Centre said the dogs are highly trained to detect the scent of human remains, so if the dogs did not alert their handlers, "it suggests the dogs were never in the presence of human remains odour." “However, this doesn’t definitively rule out the presence of remains in the areas that were searched," said Pike. "It means either the odour is there and couldn’t be detected or the odour isn’t there."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/human-remains-were-not-found-during-cadaver-dog-s-search-for-lilly-and-jack-sullivan-9.6931359

I think at this point it's a very reasonable assumption that these kids are not, and maybe never were, in those woods.

jmo

 

[JoHyphen]

My gut tells me these kids are alive and were taken. If they were killed at their home, don't you think the police would have found some indication. It is hard to clean everything plus, why kill two kids.

 

[wvmoonangel]

Cadaver dogs found nothing,if they weren't found by the dogs then someone has taken them. Someone knows something and they need to come forward.

Cadaver dogs fail to find human remains in search for missing Nova Scotia children

Police in Nova Scotia say no human remains have been found during recent searches for two young missing siblings in Pictou County.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[iveyguy]

I think at this point it's a very reasonable assumption that these kids are not, and maybe never were, in those woods.

I agree. In fact, this was my initial reaction, based solely on their ages and the unforgiving density of the nearby forest. A four-year-old in a pull-up and rubber boots simply would not have made it very far in those conditions, and massive search efforts have found nothing. I think it's far more likely that they left in a vehicle.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

If MBM was so scared of D why would she stay in bed and let him take care of the kids that morning? She sure was trusting that mourning when Lilly came into the bedroom and let D handle things.

IMO, perhaps because she was scared of him and his behavior towards her -- not any of the kids.

MBM said pretty quickly to MSM, paraphrasing, that DM was a very involved father and helped take care of them, especially when she overwhelmed, and that he had a voice they would listen to, and he was not a scary or violent stepdad was what she implied.

Also, just saying based on experience, women who are coercively controlled by their partner may do everything to keep the peace and keep the kids separate from what the dynamic is between their parents. As in, I'll put up with your behavior myself, but not towards the kids.

I don't think we'll ever know if the black eyes Lilly and Jack previously had were from accidents playing or something more, but maybe things were escalating in DM's treatment of them behind her back -- she had his 18 month old to take care of and the kids were attending school, so maybe DM did the heavy lifting with them sometimes and she had no reason to mistrust him if all was normal.

So that morning and/or the evening before if she was overwhelmed or just tired and he did the majority of the caretaking of Lilly and Jack it would not be unusual according to her, therefore no reason for her to be scared for them if all was status quo.

e.g., DM getting them to bed, communicating to MBM to call them in sick to school the next morning due to a cough, keeping an ear out for them, seeing Lilly come in and out of their bedroom and perhaps being the one to wake up and interact with her if MBM went back to sleep after she called the school at 6:15 am.

JMO