CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

[OneLove]

How do we know he wasn’t out there day after day, already searching every square inch of the same area the cadaver dogs later covered. Would be expect they’d find anything, if he didn’t?

Even if he WAS out there "searching" every day, it could simply be as a cover up. We do not yet know what we do not yet know and must consider EVERY possibility. Remember that IF he committed a heinous crime that disappeared the kids, he is fighting for his life.

Although i have zero firm conviction (because we just don't know), my first thought on his claim of frantically wading through culverts and mud before searchers arrived was it could easily muddle evidence and/or accoint for wet muddied clothing from much earlier than he said. Might, might not. Every possibility must be considered. Its an ongoing investigation.

 

[MistyWaters]

Even if he WAS out there "searching" every day, it could simply be as a cover up. We do not yet know what we do not yet know and must consider EVERY possibility. Remember that IF he committed a heinous crime that disappeared the kids, he is fighting for his life.

Although i have zero firm conviction (because we just don't not know), my first thought on his claim of frantically wading through culverts and mud before searcher arrived was that could easily muddle evidence. Might, might not. Every possibility must be considered. Its an ongoing investigation.

Yes, but what proof is there that he committed a heinous crime that disappeared the kids, other than what’s built upon opinion and speculation?

Every possibility includes DM is as innocent as the day is long.

 

[musicaljoke]

Even if he WAS out there "searching" every day, it could simply be as a cover up. We do not yet know what we do not yet know and must consider EVERY possibility. Remember that IF he committed a heinous crime that disappeared the kids, he is fighting for his life.

Although i have zero firm conviction (because we just don't know), my first thought on his claim of frantically wading through culverts and mud before searchers arrived was it could easily muddle evidence and/or accoint for wet muddied clothing from much earlier than he said. Might, might not. Every possibility must be considered. Its an ongoing investigation.

Except that is exactly what most of us would do if our kids were missing. Would we wait for searchers to arrive, or would we frantically search everywhere including the culverts? His account rings true. Now if he said that he just made a quick trip into town to pick up the dry cleaning while waiting for the searchers, then I would give him a stink-eye.

 

[flowershop]

There would be an email trail, or bank irregularities, or witnesses, or unusual vehicle activity, or airport video, or evidence of an irregular passport. Taking a child out of Canada is no easy task. This is not nearly as simple as one could imagine.

Could Jack and Lilly have been taken to tribal land? Would it be harder for RCMP to search there?

Just thought it might be worth considering since the children are First Nation and their family may have connections there.

 

[OneLove]

Except that is exactly what most of us would do if our kids were missing. Would we wait for searchers to arrive, or would we frantically search everywhere including the culverts? His account rings true. Now if he said that he just made a quick trip into town to pick up the dry cleaning while waiting for the searchers, then I would give him a stink-eye.

Yes, absolutely and understood. But at the same time, this action does not prove he is innocent either or that he does not know more than he is telling.

Its still an open investigation. Every possibility is still on the table until it is not.

 

[Bigditch]

Could Jack and Lilly have been taken to tribal land? Would it be harder for RCMP to search there?

Just thought it might be worth considering since the children are First Nation and their family may have connections there.

Yes that theory was talked about earlier on. Who knows, but the general consensus was probably not likely.

 

[Marzipan]

I've just remembered lily got a black eye at patti's was this this Wednesday. They were officially off school that day for teacher training. But the Thursday and Friday they were meant to be in school

I had often wondered if the parents checked to see if lilly was still too sick for school on Friday. And I thought a black eye is not a good look if you've had recent cps visitation .

I don't think the kids were sick I think they were kept home to hide an injury . Lilly's visible injury and the chance jack might tell would be motivation enough to ring in a sick day for both .

Now what if lilly wanted to go to school . I wonder did she have access to an ipad or phone . If she had discord she could potentially call someone if she had been given a number by someone to ring in case of emergency. After all we are given the impression things weren't rosy in the garden at home

Prehaps someone had told her if you ever need anything call me . The staff were providing for the children . Could a well intentioned person have collected them to teach the parents a lesson and then it blew up too big to confess

I wonder did lilly have a secret number in her backpack or a phone ?? That's why she kept it close ?

Pure speculation and possibly overactive imagination and just my alternative scenario

Or a not well-intentioned person? I mean, as long as you are thinking about a phone or iPad hidden in the backpack.
Not my primary thinking but I like the fresh ideas so taking off on them. Is Lilly too young to be groomed to that degree or not?

 

[musicaljoke]

Could Jack and Lilly have been taken to tribal land? Would it be harder for RCMP to search there?

Just thought it might be worth considering since the children are First Nation and their family may have connections there.

It is not more difficult to search on First Nations land than anywhere else. Some reserves have their own police, and others are policed by the RCMP. Generally the RCMP and First Nations Police Services work together on cases of mutual interest.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes, absolutely and understood. But at the same time, this action does not prove he is innocent either or that he does not know more than he is telling.

Its still an open investigation. Every possibility is still on the table until it is not.

Yes it sure is still an ongoing investigation so please allow us to discuss it with an open mind. As DM’s not been charged, let alone convicted, one possibility on the table is that he’s entirely innocent of any criminal involvement.

 

[OneLove]

Yes it sure is still an ongoing investigation so please allow us to discuss it with an open mind. As DM’s not been charged, let alone convicted, one possibility on the table is that he’s entirely innocent of any criminal involvement.

Of course. And likewise, one possibility is he's entirely NOT innocent.

Any strong lean one way or the other without evidence is sheer wishfullness.
I'm very well aware of that.

An open investigation is for the purpose of recovering the children and no possibilities are excluded on the basis of emotion rather than evidence.

 

[Sillybilly]

Of course. And likewise, one possibility is he's entirely NOT innocent.

Any strong lean one way or the other without evidence is sheer wishfullness.
I'm very well aware of that.

An open investigation is for the purpose of recovering the children and no possibilities are excluded on the basis of emotion rather than evidence.

ADMIN NOTE:

The big difference though is ... that to speculate family are not innocent is a violation of one of Websleuths most fundamental principles. We basically give them the benefit of the doubt until it is no longer possible to do so.

from: The Rules: Etiquette & Information

VICTIM FRIENDLY

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing known victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way, and only when such behavior is known to be relevant to the case.

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This does not mean, however, that statements made by family members and other third parties cannot come into discussion as the facts of the case are reported in the media. Members may reasonably discuss what is said in MSM by them or about them, but do not make random accusations, insinuations, suggest their involvement, trash, bash or attack them, or speculate negatively about them.

 

[LadyL]

Doesn’t it seam inappropriate for a handler to be having that conversation

I think it was likely a police officer trained as a handler but still ... seems odd to me as well.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

yeah I'm just trying to figure out its purpose

The wrench is weird to me. I feel like the wrench was a noise alert, not to be used for weapon possibly.

Why a wrench for protection (from bear or man or whatever) and not a baseball bat? Or crowbar?

Baseball bat is a more common protective weapon in a home I'd think. But if it was a matter of means at hand, then a wrench might suffice. The whole wrench thing doesn't make sense to me MOO...

I'm catching up only now from days ago so likely missed the whole discussion, so sorry to repeat any thoughts

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Good question! Surely LE are not solely focused on DM as is mainly the case here.

I’ve wondered why Malehya told Police she thought biodad picked up the children and took them to NewBrunswick. LE also got a tip that he and the children were sighted in a NB hotel. However BG says Cody was asleep when LE arrived at her home the morning of May 3, the day after they disappeared.

So has anybody an idea why MBM would accuse Cody of kidnapping given he claims he had no contact with her nor the children for three years? It just seems unusual to accuse him of something so serious. IIRC Cody and BG live 1/2 hour away from the Martell residence. It’d be really odd if DM and CS were strangers, maybe did they go to school together?

Just a comment, on a list of who benefits from the children going missing, one is Cody since it relieves him from many years of child support payments.
JMO

That's an interesting angle I hadn't considered yet. Who all benefits if a human was involved in their disappearance?

Cody was in jail or just got out IIRC? Who are his "friends" and associates? MBM mentioned maybe he picked them up, was this a subconscious thought? Was she half awake/woken up/confused and heard the car going back and forth and recognized the car as someone she's familiar with in the night?

I'm so bad at details of this case...so sorry I can't remember all the tidbits!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

There had to be something to make her think of CS being a potential suspect , one does not usually point the finger at someone that hasn't had any contact in 3 years imo

Which brings me to my next point mbm stated CS wasn't paying Child support , he stated he was .

When reading back over the G&M article re the court documents. The polygraph results read as follows CS truthful , DM truthful , MBM truthful when asked specific questions. She is the only person where this line is added . Does this tell us MBM is capable of lying even in the circumstance in which her two children are missing?

I'm wondering if CS was paying through a 3rd party like Family Maintenance that takes part of your pay and is semi forced (I think that's how it works and I think that's what it's called here in BC, unsure about NS)?

If so, the transaction would be documented and 'receipted' whereas paying her cash (under the table kinda thing) is not documented nor really proven - it would be he said/she said unless LE asked for bank statements where she may do a deposit of same amount every month with no source. She could say she sells homemade cookies though, no way to prove the cash deposits really.

If he was paying her cash, she doesn't claim it on income tax and I believe gets more money from the government/welfare or whatever. If CS was paying through a 3rd party, there's more a paper trail.

I don't see CS benefitting from cash only arrangement, but MBM would get more money every month. Unless CS was being nice and throwing her and the kids a bone to get more money, so hard to say.

He would only be motivated to get rid of the kids if he was paying with a 3rd party and 'forced'. If he was handing her cash in a casual arrangement it might be more flexible where he's not stretched for cash. All MOO JMO

 

[FromGermany1]

I've just remembered lily got a black eye at patti's was this this Wednesday. They were officially off school that day for teacher training. But the Thursday and Friday they were meant to be in school

I had often wondered if the parents checked to see if lilly was still too sick for school on Friday. And I thought a black eye is not a good look if you've had recent cps visitation .

I don't think the kids were sick I think they were kept home to hide an injury . Lilly's visible injury and the chance jack might tell would be motivation enough to ring in a sick day for both .

Now what if lilly wanted to go to school . I wonder did she have access to an ipad or phone . If she had discord she could potentially call someone if she had been given a number by someone to ring in case of emergency. After all we are given the impression things weren't rosy in the garden at home

Prehaps someone had told her if you ever need anything call me . The staff were providing for the children . Could a well intentioned person have collected them to teach the parents a lesson and then it blew up too big to confess

I wonder did lilly have a secret number in her backpack or a phone ?? That's why she kept it close ?

Pure speculation and possibly overactive imagination and just my alternative scenario

What, if the woman with the golden car was someone from school ....? (Against my theory a bit, but that doesn't matter. Brainstorming is all, we can do.)

 

[seasideForest]

That's an interesting angle I hadn't considered yet. Who all benefits if a human was involved in their disappearance?

Cody was in jail or just got out IIRC? Who are his "friends" and associates? MBM mentioned maybe he picked them up, was this a subconscious thought? Was she half awake/woken up/confused and heard the car going back and forth and recognized the car as someone she's familiar with in the night?

I'm so bad at details of this case...so sorry I can't remember all the tidbits!

I don't have all the details down pat either but I thought I read somewhere reputable, maybe on here in fact, the Cody Sullivan released from prison shortly before the disappearance of J and L was not their bio-father but just somebody with the same name.
JMO

 

[su5ie]

IIRC there’s no MSM link to “patti’s on wednesday”. According the documents her name isn’t mentioned. Here’s the timeline for Wednesday. I wonder how it’s known they arrived home precisely 10:19p.m? That exact time is rather curious.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/extensive-rcmp-scrutiny-of-missing-children-s-mother-stepfather-suggests-no-criminal-involvement-1.7615551

“On Wednesday, April 30, all five, including Jack and Lilly's baby sister, went to Brooks-Murray's grandmother's house to do laundry at 2 p.m.

More than an hour later, Brooks-Murray took the baby with her to get a licence plate for her car while Martell stayed at her grandmother's house with Jack and Lilly.

According to the documents, "they went to the Ultramar in Millbrook to get gas and she stopped to get a vape for Daniel at High Grade."

The entire family later went for groceries and eventually arrived back home at 10:19 p.m…..”

Prehaps a phone call was recieved or location was captured as they arrived back home .

I speculate that the exacting of the time has something to do with tech of some kind either cctv along garlioch Road or phone location or a vehicle's geolocaction.

I do think the use of the word [ entire ] family is more of a point being made in the documents. My question is how do you validate the entire family arriving home ? Did LE believe MBM and DM even though they are regarding the disappearance as suspicious?

Obviously this is the Wednesday timeline and the kids were spotted on cctv the next day which was Thursday the 1st of May . Why are we not given the same statement re that evening , why no timestamp from LE stating exact time of arrival home of the [ entire ] family from that day out ? I can't remember but was that redacted information?

We seem to have an exact timeline for Wednesday whereas the Thursday is more shadowy and not as concise . Do LE speculate as I do that prehaps May the 1st could be the date they disappeared in reality ??

Sometimes it's not the details that arr given ,sometimes it's the details that are not given is where you have to look , from May the 1st after arrival home from New Glasgow we have been given very little information re ,adult interaction with lilly and jack . We have been given details of what the adults and meadows ,morning of the 2nd looked like , we have been given details of what PM and DMs even8ng of the 1st looked like but not lilly and jack .

Apart from DMs word of lilly popping her head in and out of the bedroom and all three adults stating they heard the children , there is no other details of what the kids where or where not doing .

I also noticed from the released court documents that MBM'S estimated time of kids go8ng missing is redacted, before my assumption was based on JMs timeline of hearing the kids which would have given the kids approximately 30 minutes head start on the adults on the property and approximately an hour and a half head start on LE arrival which was circa 10 .30 am .

So many thoughts ,very little clarity and a case were so much is secretive. I don't know what to think anymore . When you have information like the school bus driver helping in the search redacted , is anything else in the redaction really worth hiding ?

Sorry for the long winded post

Edited for spelling mistake

 

[Bigditch]

Yes, absolutely and understood. But at the same time, this action does not prove he is innocent either or that he does not know more than he is telling.

Its still an open investigation. Every possibility is still on the table until it is

Prehaps a phone call was recieved or location was captured as they arrived back home .

I speculate that the exacting of the time has something to do with tech of some kind either cctv along garlioch Road or phone location or a vehicle's geolocaction.

I do think the use of the word [ entire ] family is more of a point being made in the documents. My question is how do you validate the entire family arriving home ? Did LE believe MBM and DM even though they are regarding the disappearance as suspicious?

Obviously this is the Wednesday timeline and the kids were spotted on cctv the next day which was Thursday the 1st of May . Why are we not given the same statement re that evening , why no timestamp from LE stating exact time of arrival home of the [ entire ] family from that day out ? I can't remember but was that redacted information?

We seem to have an exact timeline for Wednesday whereas the Thursday is more shadowy and not as concise . Do LE speculate as I do that prehaps May the 1st could be the date they disappeared in reality ??

Sometimes it's not the details that arr given ,sometimes it's the details that are not given is where you have to look , from May the 1st after arrival home from New Glasgow we have been given very little information re ,adult interaction with lilly and jack . We have been given details of what the adults and meadows ,morning of the 2nd looked like , we have been given details of what PM and DMs even8ng of the 1st looked like but not lilly and jack .

Apart from DMs word of lilly popping her head in and out of the bedroom and all three adults stating they heard the children , there is no other details of what the kids where or where not doing .

I also noticed from the released court documents that MBM'S estimated time of kids go8ng missing is redacted, before my assumption was based on JMs timeline of hearing the kids which would have given the kids approximately 30 minutes head start on the adults on the property and approximately an hour and a half head start on LE arrival which was circa 10 .30 am .

So many thoughts ,very little clarity and a case were so much is secretive. I don't know what to think anymore . When you have information like the school bus driver helping in the search redacted , is anything else in the redaction really worth hiding ?

Sorry for the long winded post

Edited for spelling mistake

Hi Su5ie, can you repost the court documents that show timeliness and redacted info, or tell me where I will find it. Thanks

 

[MistyWaters]

<snipped to reply>

So many thoughts ,very little clarity and a case were so much is secretive. I don't know what to think anymore . When you have information like the school bus driver helping in the search redacted , is anything else in the redaction really worth hiding ?

Sorry for the long winded post

Edited for spelling mistake

The original reason for redaction might’ve related to video surveillance from the school bus but it’s still a wild guess as to why. Were by chance the children observed to be outside (or not) when it passed by on May 2nd, the bus driver already notified of their absence? Another piece of the puzzle. It will be interesting if there’s more opening of redactions to be released. JMO

Grandmother of missing N.S. children says RCMP should share more information on case | Globalnews.ca

The grandmother of two missing Nova Scotia children says she's disappointed by how little information about their case has been publicly shared by RCMP.

globalnews.ca

“The RCMP agreed to remove some redactions this week, revealing that video surveillance was retrieved from the children’s school bus and that the bus driver joined the search for the children.”