CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

[RandyMcDonald]

Yesterday I came back from a short trip to PEI. My last trip two years ago I saw that many of the trees knocked over by Fiona were still leaning over, even in cities like Charlottetown. My impression was that, two years later, between natural decay and human repair, the downed trees have been mostly removed from inhabited areas. Even in hedgerows, though, there are still plenty of broken and uprooted trees.

Northern Nova Scotia is much less developed than the "million acre farm" on the other side of the Northumberland Strait. If the children are in the forests, it would be a surprise if they were easily found.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I wouldn’t call it lying or mistruth.

I would call it strategic

It could also be some potential evidence is discussed verbally between LE / their legal support while getting ready to alert the judge who it's being put in front of for a decision on approval, to make sure they have all their t's crossed and i's dotted, before it's all put down in court documents, e.g., a search warrant.

So it's airtight and will meet probable cause to justify it -- called a Probable Cause Affidavit [PCA] in some court systems -- and sometimes required for warrants of both kinds (search and arrest), it depends on the laws and jurisdictions.

So after an overview is discussed verbally they then agree to decide what they're going to include or leave out or redact or un-redact after they have more info.

So there could be some knowledge or potential evidence LE has not put in writing in court documents which is germane to their investigation.

And that could change and it gets put into writing down the road once it's vetted or eliminated as things evolve.

LE has to tell the truth but they don't have to tell the whole truth/all they know or suspect in court documents, to protect the integrity of their investigation.

[Edited]

JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

It could also be some potential evidence is discussed verbally between LE / their legal support / while getting ready to alert the judge who it's being put in front of for a decision on approval, to make sure they have all their t's crossed and i's dotted, before it's all put down in court documents, e.g., a search warrant.

So it's airtight and will meet probable cause to justify it -- called a Probable Cause Affidavit [PCA] in some court systems -- and sometimes required for warrants of both kinds (search and arrest), it depends on the laws and jurisdictions.

I don't know if this is the case in NS, maybe it's more straightforward in this situation, "two missing siblings" investigation, with urgency prioritized.

Perhaps some of the potential evidence that could go into a search warrant is discussed verbally with the judge as a "warm up", e.g., something along the lines of:

"While drafting the X of X search warrants for X, we think we have X pieces of evidence or knowledge of likely places to search that are solid and justify the warrant, but Y and Z may not be solid yet or may be seen to implicate certain individuals who are protected as potential victims or witnesses, and we just don't know yet where Y and Z might lead."

So after an overview is discussed verbally they then agree to decide what they're going to include or leave out or redact or un-redact after they have more info.

Again, it varies by locale, but the strategy and discussions behind what ends up going in to court documents such as a search warrant can originate from verbal discussions with a judge before or while they are being presented for approval, even by phone in the middle of the night.

So there could be some knowledge or potential evidence LE has not put in writing in court documents which is germane to their investigation that a judge could be aware of.

And that could change and it gets put into writing down the road once it's vetted or eliminated as things evovle with the investigation.

IANAL and don't know how it goes in Canada.

Maybe someone who is an attorney can correct me if I'm wrong...

Just pointing out a potential aspect of what LE puts in writing in court documents such as a search warrant could have a "verbal history with the court" that is a "read between the lines" subtlety.

LE has to tell the truth but they don't have to tell the whole truth/all they know or suspect IN WRITING in court documents, to protect the integrity of their investigation.

JMO

We don't have any verified Canadian lawyers at WS, and although I'm not a lawyer, I do have a legal background in Canada from many moons past. IMO, this would be highly unethical if not outright judicial misconduct. Judges have to maintain integrity and remain impartial.

Snippet from "Ethical Principles for Judges"

JMO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

We don't have any verified Canadian lawyers at WS, and although I'm not a lawyer, I do have a legal background in Canada from many moons past. IMO, this would be highly unethical if not outright judicial misconduct. Judges have to maintain integrity and remain impartial.

Snippet from "Ethical Principles for Judges"

JMO

Thank you! I edited my post accordingly to remove references to the court potentially being aware of anything that goes into decisions by LE on documents which are submitted.

 

[agent902]

"Understanding the Prevalence of Human Trafficking
corridor in Atlantic Canada,

The high rate of human trafficking in Nova Scotia comes from a very specific source. North Preston's Finest grooms teenage girls from group homes, via the "boyfriend game". (Happened to my best friend a few decades ago, and they're still at it.) They're brutal, ruthless, amoral trafficking pimps of the worst order. But trafficking kidnapped children has never been on their rap sheet, or even an accusation. They don't sell small children. They "work" their "girls" in strip clubs and escorting.

The wrench is weird to me. I feel like the wrench was a noise alert, not to be used for weapon possibly.

Why a wrench for protection (from bear or man or whatever) and not a baseball bat? Or crowbar?

Baseball bat is a more common protective weapon in a home I'd think. But if it was a matter of means at hand, then a wrench might suffice. The whole wrench thing doesn't make sense to me MOO...

The way it makes sense, is if you think of it not as a weapon but as a booby trap. It's a poor man's alarm system.

When I lived with someone who was running a cash business out of home, they worried about their own customer base breaking in to steal. They were always dreaming up weird booby trap ideas, for the cash and the doors. They wanted to be woken up if someone tried to break in at night.

Hi Su5ie, can you repost the court documents that show timeliness and redacted info, or tell me where I will find it. Thanks

Lilly and Jack Sullivan Documents - 1 — the Canadian Gothic

searcn and seizure application related to telephones belonging to Daniel and Malehya

thecanadiangothic.com

 

[Serononin]

The high rate of human trafficking in Nova Scotia comes from a very specific source. North Preston's Finest grooms teenage girls from group homes, via the "boyfriend game". (Happened to my best friend a few decades ago, and they're still at it.) They're brutal, ruthless, amoral trafficking pimps of the worst order. But trafficking kidnapped children has never been on their rap sheet, or even an accusation. They don't sell small children. They "work" their "girls" in strip clubs and escorting.




The way it makes sense, is if you think of it not as a weapon but as a booby trap. It's a poor man's alarm system.

When I lived with someone who was running a cash business out of home, they worried about their own customer base breaking in to steal. They were always dreaming up weird booby trap ideas, for the cash and the doors. They wanted to be woken up if someone tried to break in at night.

Lilly and Jack Sullivan Documents - 1 — the Canadian Gothic

searcn and seizure application related to telephones belonging to Daniel and Malehya

thecanadiangothic.com

Thanks for sharing this, that document definitely clears some things up. The information from MBM's mother about Thursday is particularly interesting IMO, since it confirms that the children definitely made it home from New Glasgow that day.

Has the existence of the "nearby swamp" been discussed here before? Does anyone know how easy a swamp would be to comprehensively search compared to, say a lake? I'm wondering if there's any possibility that Jack and Lilly could have ended up in there and been missed during the searches

 

[Bigditch]

Thanks for sharing this, that document definitely clears some things up. The information from MBM's mother about Thursday is particularly interesting IMO, since it confirms that the children definitely made it home from New Glasgow that day.

Has the existence of the "nearby swamp" been discussed here before? Does anyone know how easy a swamp would be to comprehensively search compared to, say a lake? I'm wondering if there's any possibility that Jack and Lilly could have ended up in there and been missed during the searches

dbm

 

[su5ie]

I think this is very, very important. From that longer interview at the 9:30 time stamp:

Reporter: So to be clear, it's currently not a criminal investigation?

Staff Sgt. Rob McCamon: No it's not. We don't have any, we haven't collected any evidence or facts or information that suggests criminal investigation or charges or anything like that. So we are still investigating a missing person's act.

So the disappearance is being investigated under the missing person's act which I'm presuming all missing persons in Canada are investigated under .

The RCMP stated its not criminal and also they have assumed from the day of the disappearance that it is not an abduction.

So we have those two statements as fact and I'm sure I can safely assume that is bona-fide truth , yes ?

So why did they also say at one point that the disappearance was being viewed as suspicious. ( not exact wording and from memory) if anyone can find a link that states this it would be greatly appreciated as while I do recall it written but I cannot find the article atm .

I'm just confused as to what it means by the officers are investigating other theories. What could the other theories be ,besides wandering , abduction or criminality? I just don't see any other avenue . Am I just not thinking outside of the box ?

 

[Bigditch]

So the disappearance is being investigated under the missing person's act which I'm presuming all missing persons in Canada are investigated under .

The RCMP stated its not criminal and also they have assumed from the day of the disappearance that it is not an abduction.

So we have those two statements as fact and I'm sure I can safely assume that is bona-fide truth , yes ?

So why did they also say at one point that the disappearance was being viewed as suspicious. ( not exact wording and from memory) if anyone can find a link that states this it would be greatly appreciated as while I do recall it written but I cannot find the article atm .

I'm just confused as to what it means by the officers are investigating other theories. What could the other theories be ,besides wandering , abduction or criminality? I just don't see any other avenue . Am I just not thinking outside of the box ?

I think that comment dates back to May, June. I will look.

 

[su5ie]

The high rate of human trafficking in Nova Scotia comes from a very specific source. North Preston's Finest grooms teenage girls from group homes, via the "boyfriend game". (Happened to my best friend a few decades ago, and they're still at it.) They're brutal, ruthless, amoral trafficking pimps of the worst order. But trafficking kidnapped children has never been on their rap sheet, or even an accusation. They don't sell small children. They "work" their "girls" in strip clubs and escorting.




The way it makes sense, is if you think of it not as a weapon but as a booby trap. It's a poor man's alarm system.

When I lived with someone who was running a cash business out of home, they worried about their own customer base breaking in to steal. They were always dreaming up weird booby trap ideas, for the cash and the doors. They wanted to be woken up if someone tried to break in at night.

Lilly and Jack Sullivan Documents - 1 — the Canadian Gothic

searcn and seizure application related to telephones belonging to Daniel and Malehya

thecanadiangothic.com

Thank you so much for posting the documents link , what an eye opener .

I have to digest all that information contained in them as its a lot . But it certainly for me anyway poses many questions as well as answers

 

[Serononin]

I'm just confused as to what it means by the officers are investigating other theories. What could the other theories be ,besides wandering , abduction or criminality? I just don't see any other avenue . Am I just not thinking outside of the box ?

I guess there's also the possibility of a combination of factors, e.g. that they wandered away from the house voluntarily but met with some kind of foul play after that

 

[LadyL]

The wrench is weird to me. I feel like the wrench was a noise alert, not to be used for weapon possibly.

Why a wrench for protection (from bear or man or whatever) and not a baseball bat? Or crowbar?

Baseball bat is a more common protective weapon in a home I'd think. But if it was a matter of means at hand, then a wrench might suffice. The whole wrench thing doesn't make sense to me MOO...

I'm catching up only now from days ago so likely missed the whole discussion, so sorry to repeat any thoughts

that's what I thought too

 

[MistyWaters]

So the disappearance is being investigated under the missing person's act which I'm presuming all missing persons in Canada are investigated under .

The RCMP stated its not criminal and also they have assumed from the day of the disappearance that it is not an abduction.

So we have those two statements as fact and I'm sure I can safely assume that is bona-fide truth , yes ?

So why did they also say at one point that the disappearance was being viewed as suspicious. ( not exact wording and from memory) if anyone can find a link that states this it would be greatly appreciated as while I do recall it written but I cannot find the article atm .

I'm just confused as to what it means by the officers are investigating other theories. What could the other theories be ,besides wandering , abduction or criminality? I just don't see any other avenue . Am I just not thinking outside of the box ?

In that same video interview with Staff Sgt. Rob McCamon he explains why Major Crimes took lead. In a nut shell the case was too complicated for the small local detachment. It was also clarified early on that every missing persons case is considered suspicious until confirmed not to be. Same as although it is not a criminal investigation at this time, that would change if any criminality is revealed.

I have no idea what other theories are still left that are being investigated.
JMO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Can anyone elaborate on the following..... If LE are building a case behind the scenes, what does this consist of? Presumably they don't have enough evidence to charge anyone at the moment so are waiting/looking for more evidence? Yet, adults have been questioned, homes and land searched, CCTV examined etc etc. And this hasn't allowed for a break in the case. So what will? Obvs finding the children could but assuming that doesn't happen anytime soon? After all, likely areas have been searched. Is LE waiting for a confession? Hoping someone's lips will loosen? I'm curious as to what sort of thing could be going on behind the scenes. What other investigative tools could be employed that perhaps yet haven't been?

My 2 cents and I'm sure others may be better to answer....

Unsure if you're Canadian but typically Canadian LE keep things very close to the chest/vest and can be slow to build a case with some crimes.

They may have evidence or circumstantial evidence but might be being strategic to get a slam dunk at trial so to speak. LE have to have all their I's dotted and T's crossed to get a solid case in the courts and get that conviction. Too risky to rush to trial if it's half-baked.

CCTV footage can take many man hours, unsure they use AI with that. Unsure how much AI is used just yet in Canadian digital forensics but personally, I this might be one of the few things AI can be helpful for is solving crimes!

They may still be doing repeat interviews with witnesses (not core players like DM, JM, MBM, etc.)

I think to get a conviction, bodies help. Circumstantial cases hold up but they have to be solid. So they may go back and forth over evidence, interviews, all kinds of things to find where the kids might have ended up.

And yeah, I think with a hefty reward that helps getting people talking for sure.

So I think LE are being very very patient if they have their eye on someone. They may even be surveilling them but if they are they won't be telling the media, YouTubers or anyone!

 

[Bigditch]

MISSING CHILDREN IN NOVA SCOTIA – COURT DOCUMENTS REVEAL DETAILS, SUSPICIOUS DISAPPEARANCE OF LILLY AND JACK SULLIVAN - MissingPeople.ca

Court documents detail new findings in the disappearance of Lilly and Jack Sullivan, ages 6 and 4, missing since May 2, 2025 from rural Lansdowne Station, N.S. RCMP continue to investigate, calling the case suspicious.

missingpeople.ca

Byline refers to the disappearance of Lilly and Jack as "suspicious".

 

[Warwick7]

I guess there's also the possibility of a combination of factors, e.g. that they wandered away from the house voluntarily but met with some kind of foul play after that

But I thought their scent didn't go past their driveway.

 

[Serononin]

But I thought their scent didn't go past their driveway.

As I understand it, there are a few different things that can affect whether dogs are able to track a scent - the weather, the number of other scents in the area, the specific method of scent detection the dog is trained in (I vaguely remember reading somewhere that some dogs are trained to follow scents in the air and others to follow scents on the ground, and that different methods work better for different cases), the skill of the handler to be able to recognise the dog's cues, etc. So the dogs not being able to track their scent beyond the driveway doesn't necessarily mean anything

 

[su5ie]

MISSING CHILDREN IN NOVA SCOTIA – COURT DOCUMENTS REVEAL DETAILS, SUSPICIOUS DISAPPEARANCE OF LILLY AND JACK SULLIVAN - MissingPeople.ca

Court documents detail new findings in the disappearance of Lilly and Jack Sullivan, ages 6 and 4, missing since May 2, 2025 from rural Lansdowne Station, N.S. RCMP continue to investigate, calling the case suspicious.

missingpeople.ca

Byline refers to the disappearance of Lilly and Jack as "suspicious".

Thank you for finding this link , I remembered the disappearance being called suspicious but could not recall where I seen it in msm

 

[su5ie]

OK, I've digested the court documents

Here is some things I noticed

MBM has given a good synopsis of what was happening on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday morning.

DM gives a somewhat unsure detail of Wednesday, Thursday, Friday but recalls more ss time went on

DM appears to criticise MBM as a mother when it comes to lilly and Jack and portrays an image of himself as super dad

MBM portrays DM as brilliant with lilly and jack but doesn't discuss his parenting role re meadow and portrays herself as over stimulated and overwhelmed

Both extended family members helped in the search but even though DMs family would be more familiar with the land it was MBMs family that found ' evidence "

Not all of the underside of the trailer could be searched but the majority was ,no mention of the underneath of janies RV being searched with a drone ,I understand it has wheels so prehaps there was a clear view

DM got into the vehicle after searching the immediate home and yard and began searching the wooded area on foot after driving around searching ditches ,roads and culverts.

Neither party were estranged from family . Prior to living in the trailer they lived with Maleyha's grandma ,the same grandma that gave her money for car ,groceries and gas .

When informed of lilly and jack going missing janies brother Ron called to the property but later went to town with his mother ,don't know if this is janies mum and dainiels grandma too

My opinion on extended family members witnessing the children on Thursday after dollarama . CM stated she saw the kids on video call . I wonder was it recorded or do we trust she is true to her word ? Janie hearing the children on Friday morning. She states she spoke to Ron at 8.48am and can't remember if she heard her dog barking before or after the call and she then heard the kids talking and laughing playing on the swings . She then falls asleep and was awoken by Daniel yelling for the kids .

One thing to note janie stated ,when she heard Daniel yelling she thought nothing of it at first as jack likes to search for bugs and stuff and Daniel would do that ( im speculating to mean yelling ) if he ( jack ) does . Is my interpretation wrong or would this statement appear to say yelling at jack and prehaps both children was normality?

DM stated when he leaves the house he brings his phone and keeps location on but when he first went out looking for lilly and jack in MBMs vehicle he did not have it with him . Understandable if you are anxious and panicked to find missing children but if one was thinking logically in a calmed sense they would bring the phone in case kids returned in the interim.

MBM states Daniel was getting annoyed with LE on first day .

MBM did not sleep much the first night . DM did prehaps tired from searching.

DM and MBM where fully cooperative in handing over phones ,banking information and anything else that would help investigators.

Lilly and jacks teacher ,never met MBM in person but spoke to her over the phone

When the kids went missing MBM made a comment to her mum CM stating " I told you they were autistic " . Being a mum myself to an autistic child I'm speculating MBM was stating the kids were a flight ( escape ) risk and by her use of the wording " see I told you " I'm assuming prehaps CM did not believe the kids had possible autism prior?

Sorry the post is long just wanted to bullet list the points that I felt might help when discussing the documents.

 

[MistyWaters]

My 2 cents and I'm sure others may be better to answer....

Unsure if you're Canadian but typically Canadian LE keep things very close to the chest/vest and can be slow to build a case with some crimes.

They may have evidence or circumstantial evidence but might be being strategic to get a slam dunk at trial so to speak. LE have to have all their I's dotted and T's crossed to get a solid case in the courts and get that conviction. Too risky to rush to trial if it's half-baked.

CCTV footage can take many man hours, unsure they use AI with that. Unsure how much AI is used just yet in Canadian digital forensics but personally, I this might be one of the few things AI can be helpful for is solving crimes!

They may still be doing repeat interviews with witnesses (not core players like DM, JM, MBM, etc.)

I think to get a conviction, bodies help. Circumstantial cases hold up but they have to be solid. So they may go back and forth over evidence, interviews, all kinds of things to find where the kids might have ended up.

And yeah, I think with a hefty reward that helps getting people talking for sure.

So I think LE are being very very patient if they have their eye on someone. They may even be surveilling them but if they are they won't be telling the media, YouTubers or anyone!

What you’re describing seems a situation of LE coming up with a theory that criminality was involved and then hoping to find evidence to support a conviction. But that’s opposite of how the RCMP claim they conduct their investigations, by following the evidence to wherever it takes them. So I get the impression if evidence was found with criminal implications, this would already have become a criminal investigation in order to further a ‘slam dunk’.

However I admit it’s utterly mystifying how two children could disappear without any criminality involved, given the cadaver dogs were unsuccessful. I’d be very curious how the RCMP think that could be possible.
JMO