CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

[dotr]

In the Aug 8th Globe and Mail article (yes, paylocked, I’m a subscriber) the car is mentioned in the section touching on the tenuous financial situation experienced by DM and MBM. DM’s car needed repairs and he could not afford it. The car was undrivable.
IMO

Months after Nova Scotia children vanished, a clearer picture emerges of their lives before their disappearance

There are still few answers about missing siblings Jack and Lilly Sullivan, but trauma and stigma have left their families and community farther apart

www.theglobeandmail.com

Ty, from link.. rbbm
''They came to the door of Daniel’s father, Earle Martell, a retired tire plant worker who lives atop a hill in a bungalow he built himself 40 years ago.''

''Earle guided police into the yard, to old campers and a derelict log cabin filled with junk, and to Daniel’s older-model black sedan, in need of repairs he couldn’t afford.''

 

[steff13]

There's another angle to this that is coming from the mother's family. Her relative's theory is one that I've considered plausible - that someone in her family removed the children. Given their difficult financial situation, it's plausible, made more plausible because the mother took the infant and left as soon as her two older children were gone.

I think this is a possibility as well. At the very least it would mean the children are safe.

 

[Hexe]

There's another angle to this that is coming from the mother's family. Her relative's theory is one that I've considered plausible - that someone in her family removed the children. Given their difficult financial situation, it's plausible, made more plausible because the mother took the infant and left as soon as her two older children were gone

Why this way though? Daniel has no legal rights to Jack and Lily, so MBM's family was able to remove them, with their mother's consent openly and without committing a crime.

 

[otto]

Why this way though? Daniel has no legal rights to Jack and Lily, so MBM's family was able to remove them, with their mother's consent openly and without committing a crime.

Daniel is the only father that Jack and Lily have known during the past three years. That is significant for a 4 and 6 year old.

Also, there is the baby. In the event that the mother wants to leave and deprive the father of all paternal rights, divorce is not enough. Unresolved accusations are.

 

[otto]

Women will sometimes go to great lengths to take full custody of a child. Recall Dawn Walker, also known as Dawn Dumont, who faked her death and that of her son before fleeing to the USA in 2023. Suspicion fell on her husband for domestic violence and murder. That is extreme and bizarre, but it was a determined and calculated scheme to exclude the father from the child's life.

 

[otto]

This is the mother's first statement to police. On the morning of May 2, she alone was aware of the children. She states that Daniel was "sleeping the whole time".

pgs 7-8; Lilly and Jack Sullivan Documents - 1 — the Canadian Gothic

 

[steff13]

Why this way though? Daniel has no legal rights to Jack and Lily, so MBM's family was able to remove them, with their mother's consent openly and without committing a crime.

Maybe she wasn't trying to get them away from Daniel. Maybe she was trying to get them away for some other reason.

 

[seasideForest]

I can’t see Daniel being involved. He comes across as naive and truthful to me. Maybe even autistic himself. Plus, didn’t he pass a polygraph?

Apparently people talk about "passlng a polygraph" colloquially but in the language of criminology you cannot pass or fail! Police use polygraphy as a questioning tool. There are others on this thread who can explain it better than I can. The topic has come up again and again.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes I do. A truck, I believe. It is in the video that shows D's father's place. The outbuilding with all the toys he keeps for the other grandchilren.

Thank you very much, a video, yes!

 

[MistyWaters]

Maybe she wasn't trying to get them away from Daniel. Maybe she was trying to get them away for some other reason.

What reason? Considering the biodad walked from any parenting responsibilities, without DM it sounds as if she wouldn’t have coped. DM said as much, that the children wouldn’t listen to her. Having no control over one’s children, feeing overwhelmed is a dangerous path. So if she’d already planned to leave the relationship as mother to three children, what were her options?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/extensive-rcmp-scrutiny-of-missing-children-s-mother-stepfather-suggests-no-criminal-involvement-1.7615551

“The newly released documents provide summaries of five statements Brooks-Murray provided to the RCMP. In her first police interview, she described Martell as "an involved parent who would help her especially when she was overwhelmed."

She said he wasn't aggressive with the children but "he had a voice they would listen to."

Brooks-Murray told RCMP there was never any physical discipline.”

 

[Slebby]

Maybe she wasn't trying to get them away from Daniel. Maybe she was trying to get them away for some other reason.

There was an active CPS investigation underway. Was she in jeopardy of losing her children?
IMHO

 

[musicaljoke]

I believe saying the car came and went 3 times can mean it came (1 trip) it went (2 trips) and so on. Total 6 trips, or 3 coming, 3 going. Not necessarily inconsistent, imo.
I believe Wong has a more fulsome eyewitness report than Smith, but Smith’s report does corroborate Wong somewhat.
I honestly do not understand why there is such a push to disbelieve these witnesses. I’m not sure what they have to gain. Believing them is not, imo, tantamount to accusing DM and/or MBM.
I think it’s possible to sleep thru the sound of a car coming and going. I am a very light sleeper yet I have slept thru thunderstorms.
Is it not possible a vehicle was lying in wait for an opportunity to take the children??
IMO

It is not likely that a vehicle was waiting for an opportunity to take the children. Anyone knowing that there were children at that home, would also expect that they would get on the school bus that morning. Children younger than grade two, have to be accompanied by a parent while they wait for a bus in the morning, and they are discharged into the care of a waiting parent in the afternoon.

https://www.ednet.ns.ca/docs/schooltransportationpolicy-en.pdf

 

[musicaljoke]

There was an active CPS investigation underway. Was she in jeopardy of losing her children?
IMHO

There was no active CPS investigation underway. In fact, there isn't even an organisation called CPS in Nova Scotia.

Update: Multi-agency search for missing children in Pictou County scales back

As of today, a multi-agency search for two missing children, six-year-old Lilly Sullivan and four-year-old Jack Sullivan, will be scaled back.Lilly and Jack were reported missing on May 2, at approximately 10 a.m. It's believed they wandered away from their home on Gairloch Rd. in Lansdown...

rcmp.ca

Child Protection FAQ's | Nova Scotia Family Law

www.nsfamilylaw.ca

 

[MistyWaters]

Ty, from link.. rbbm
''They came to the door of Daniel’s father, Earle Martell, a retired tire plant worker who lives atop a hill in a bungalow he built himself 40 years ago.''

''Earle guided police into the yard, to old campers and a derelict log cabin filled with junk, and to Daniel’s older-model black sedan, in need of repairs he couldn’t afford.''

Oh my gosh, Dotr you found it! Thank you, thank you for this, plus it proves to me I wasn’t imagining things.

So depending on how long DMs black sedan was in EM’s yard, it may or may not have been what the neighbours claimed to have heard.

 

[TMich6811]

There was no active CPS investigation underway. In fact, there isn't even an organisation called CPS in Nova Scotia.

Update: Multi-agency search for missing children in Pictou County scales back

As of today, a multi-agency search for two missing children, six-year-old Lilly Sullivan and four-year-old Jack Sullivan, will be scaled back.Lilly and Jack were reported missing on May 2, at approximately 10 a.m. It's believed they wandered away from their home on Gairloch Rd. in Lansdown...

rcmp.ca

Child Protection FAQ's | Nova Scotia Family Law

www.nsfamilylaw.ca

While termed child welfare in NS, it’s still
Considered child protection services (CPS) as per the link you provided is it not? Many areas don’t call their child protective services agencies CPS but they provide that service. Screenshot from your faq link that calls it child protective services


Can you link where we’ve been told there wasn’t an investigation happening?

 

[otto]

There was an active CPS investigation underway. Was she in jeopardy of losing her children?
IMHO

Yes, it is reported that a medical assessment of the children was scheduled within a month of the children vanishing. Although the parents said that the appointment was to assess whether both children were autistic, the scope was quite likely broader and related to child welfare concerns about overall health and wellbeing. Given the general description of the children's home-life and their delayed learning, I think it's possible that the children could have been temporarily removed until a suitable home-life was provided.

"From the outside, there were signs the children’s home life was strained. They were developmentally behind other children, and arrived at school grubby and without appropriate winter clothing, prompting staff to provide it for them, according to a school board employee with direct knowledge.

Last December, Jack came to school with a black eye ... shows him sitting next to other students in the forest with a green and purple bruise below his left eye ... Lilly had a black eye when the children went missing

Behind the scenes, people’s concern for the children’s welfare had already raised red flags. A child protection supervisor in the nearby town of New Glasgow rushed to prepare a memo for Deputy Minister Craig Beaton about Jack and Lilly on the day the children disappeared.
...

What is known about Jack and Lilly’s interaction with child welfare authorities is that a social worker came to the trailer over concerns raised by the school several months before their disappearance to assess their home life.

Teachers and other professionals who work with children have a legal duty to report if they have reasonable grounds to suspect a child has, may have, is, or is about to suffer abuse, and home visits occur when there’s reason to be concerned about a child’s safety and care. Daniel told The Globe the visit was related to the kids’ learning difficulties at school. He said the children were suspected of having autism and were scheduled to see a doctor the same month they vanished. He declined to answer further questions about the involvement of child protection staff in the kids’ lives."

Months after Nova Scotia children vanished, a clearer picture emerges of their lives before their disappearance

There are still few answers about missing siblings Jack and Lilly Sullivan, but trauma and stigma have left their families and community farther apart

www.theglobeandmail.com

 

[Slebby]

There was no active CPS investigation underway. In fact, there isn't even an organisation called CPS in Nova Scotia.

Update: Multi-agency search for missing children in Pictou County scales back

As of today, a multi-agency search for two missing children, six-year-old Lilly Sullivan and four-year-old Jack Sullivan, will be scaled back.Lilly and Jack were reported missing on May 2, at approximately 10 a.m. It's believed they wandered away from their home on Gairloch Rd. in Lansdown...

rcmp.ca

Child Protection FAQ's | Nova Scotia Family Law

www.nsfamilylaw.ca

I think you’re aware we’ve been using the term CPS in this case discussions for quite some time.
Setting aside my use of the term CPS, the family circumstances were under some scrutiny from an authority that oversees the welfare of children, am I correct in saying this?
IMHO

 

[su5ie]

I’ve searched and searched without success but I vaguely recall reading somewhere that Daniel’s vehicle was at his father’s place while it was awaiting repairs, had to do with affordability. It was probably in a paylocked G&M. Anyone else remember this?

Yes I remember and I do recall it being in the G&M article which is now paylocked for me too , is on archive allowed in MT ,no

 

[MistyWaters]

I think you’re aware we’ve been using the term CPS in this case discussions for quite some time.
Setting aside my use of the term CPS, the family circumstances were under some scrutiny from an authority that oversees the welfare of children, am I correct in saying this?
IMHO

Pictou County is listed here. CWS?

Offices with Child Welfare Services | Nova Scotia Department of Community Services

Child welfare services include child protection and supports for children in care, including foster care and adoption. <strong>These are also the offices where you can report suspected cases of child abuse. </strong>

novascotia.ca

Offices with Child Welfare Services​

Child welfare services include child protection and supports for children in care, including foster care and adoption.

Verification

If you suspect that a child is being abused or neglected, please contact the child welfare office in the area where the child lives.

 

[musicaljoke]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

We believe it was two different vehicles based on the fact that DMs vehicle was not drivable.