CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

[Ontario Mom]

“He said his residence is at an elevated position from Daniel's residence and he could see vehicle lights over the treetops,” said RCMP Cpl. Charlene Curl in her written request to the court.

“He said the vehicle left three or four times after midnight and into the early hours of the morning. He said the vehicle would drive off in the distance and he could hear it stop and then return. He said it remained in earshot the entire time.”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova...hildren-court-documents-car-vehicle-9.6943179

Is it possible someone was on an ATV that was very loud and it wasn't running back and forth on the road per se, but off road in the vicinity? Perhaps that is why the neighbor seemed to hear someone coming and going but not really leaving the area. Perhaps someone was out in the woods or on logging or pipeline trails. If so that could that explain the noise, lights and lack of a vehicle on the road wherever RCMP found those cameras they gave a thorough review.
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He [DM] told police he went to bed “fairly early” and didn’t wake up until it was light the next morning. (from the above linked CBC article)

MBM told LE that she put the children down and then went to bed around 10pm but that DM had stayed up later. She did not know what time he made it to bed, but it was his practice to tackle "projects" around the house at night (from the CBC here: https://archive.ph/20250822223804/h...er-suggests-no-criminal-involvement-1.7615551 and the G&M article recently discussed)

That sounds like the most reasonable explaination as to neighbors hearing a vehicle but the footage never recording one. Although I would suspect the neighbors likely know the difference between the sound of a loud car, and the sound of an ATV?

 

[tlcya]

That sounds like the most reasonable explaination as to neighbors hearing a vehicle but the footage never recording one. Although I would suspect the neighbors likely know the difference between the sound of a loud car, and the sound of an ATV?

good point. just spitballing

 

[MistyWaters]

This post lands at random and not a response to anyone in particular.

I'm just wondering, for those inclined to disbelieve the 2 neighbors detailed reports, what reason you think they might have for confabulating such elaborate lies.

I have ideas but just curious what your thought process is about this matter.

It wasn’t necessarily an elaborate lie. I think they just mistakingly recalled the vehicle sounds from an earlier night during that same week. It quite typical for people to misremember the date/time of happenings. JMO

 

[musicaljoke]

“He said his residence is at an elevated position from Daniel's residence and he could see vehicle lights over the treetops,” said RCMP Cpl. Charlene Curl in her written request to the court.

“He said the vehicle left three or four times after midnight and into the early hours of the morning. He said the vehicle would drive off in the distance and he could hear it stop and then return. He said it remained in earshot the entire time.”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova...hildren-court-documents-car-vehicle-9.6943179

Is it possible someone was on an ATV that was very loud and it wasn't running back and forth on the road per se, but off road in the vicinity? Perhaps that is why the neighbor seemed to hear someone coming and going but not really leaving the area. Perhaps someone was out in the woods or on logging or pipeline trails. If so that could that explain the noise, lights and lack of a vehicle on the road wherever RCMP found those cameras they gave a thorough review.
--------------------------
He [DM] told police he went to bed “fairly early” and didn’t wake up until it was light the next morning. (from the above linked CBC article)

MBM told LE that she put the children down and then went to bed around 10pm but that DM had stayed up later. She did not know what time he made it to bed, but it was his practice to tackle "projects" around the house at night (from the CBC here: https://archive.ph/20250822223804/h...er-suggests-no-criminal-involvement-1.7615551 and the G&M article recently discussed)

Yes, I was thinking that they may have heard an ATV also. That might explain seeing lights over the treetops, especially if the ATV was running up and down the ditches. It could also explain why there was no evidence discovered of a vehicle. I assume that the presence of a vehicle can be determined by means other than only cameras.

It's possible that they were correct about the date. No doubt LE has already investigated this and made a determination about whether or not it is related to the missing kids. Comments from LE about the vehicles seem to suggest that this was not related to the children's disappearance.

I am concerned that the neighbour didn't report this until a week after the kids disappeared. Sometimes our memories are not the best after a week. How much do we trust their memory? I don't know. Furthermore, the second witness' report was an additional week later, and only after he had spoken to the first witness. That makes his report even weaker.

"About a week after they spoke to Wong, police say they spoke to Justin Smith, the other nearby resident. Police say Smith told them on May 17 that he had spoken to Wong about the vehicle and that he also heard it in the early hours of May 2."

Nova Scotia RCMP dispute witness accounts in missing children case

HALIFAX — Nova Scotia RCMP say they have found no evidence to back up witness accounts of a vehicle driving back and forth early in the morning near the rural, northeastern home where two young children went missing in May.

ca.news.yahoo.com

 

[tlcya]

Yes, I was thinking that they may have heard an ATV also. That might explain seeing lights over the treetops, especially if the ATV was running up and down the ditches. It could also explain why there was no evidence discovered of a vehicle. I assume that the presence of a vehicle can be determined by means other than only cameras.

It's possible that they were correct about the date. No doubt LE has already investigated this and made a determination about whether or not it is related to the missing kids. Comments from LE about the vehicles seem to suggest that this was not related to the children's disappearance.

I am concerned that the neighbour didn't report this until a week after the kids disappeared. Sometimes our memories are not the best after a week. How much do we trust their memory? I don't know. Furthermore, the second witness' report was an additional week later, and only after he had spoken to the first witness. That makes his report even weaker.

"About a week after they spoke to Wong, police say they spoke to Justin Smith, the other nearby resident. Police say Smith told them on May 17 that he had spoken to Wong about the vehicle and that he also heard it in the early hours of May 2."

Nova Scotia RCMP dispute witness accounts in missing children case

HALIFAX — Nova Scotia RCMP say they have found no evidence to back up witness accounts of a vehicle driving back and forth early in the morning near the rural, northeastern home where two young children went missing in May.

ca.news.yahoo.com

great points. could be completely unrelated to the children. Could be it was a different date and the neighbors are both misremembering. But with so little knowns in this case, even after all this time, I am keeping this and all the other little tidbits of info we've gotten in mind until this case is resolved.

 

[MistyWaters]

That sounds like the most reasonable explaination as to neighbors hearing a vehicle but the footage never recording one. Although I would suspect the neighbors likely know the difference between the sound of a loud car, and the sound of an ATV?

The statement by the RCMP doesn’t mention anything about reviewing for sounds or lack thereof. It just refers to ‘vehicle activity’ which is why IMO, rather than seeking noise, lights appearing on the highway (headlights or taillights) is a much simplier way to identify if a vehicle was travelling on the hwy during the night since it might possibly be seen from footage taken from a greater distance away.
JMO

 

[Ontario Mom]

good point. just spitballing

I do think they heard what they thought was a car. One neighbor (Wong) seemed certain it was DM's car but I think it's also possible they both heard it on a different night other than the night before the kids disappeared.

 

[tlcya]

That sounds like the most reasonable explaination as to neighbors hearing a vehicle but the footage never recording one. Although I would suspect the neighbors likely know the difference between the sound of a loud car, and the sound of an ATV?

yours got me thinking. Moy may well be familiar with the sound of his neighbors' vehicles. particularly the louder ones. I know I am, I can identify my husband's vehicles in the distance, my next door neighbor's truck, and the guy down the block's motorcycle.

Moy claimed he knew the sound of DM's vehicle, which is how he said with such confidence it was DM's. Which now has me scrolling back to the posts about how and when DM's vehicle ended up at his father's property some 30 minutes away. Maybe what he heard was DM attempting to get a vehicle that needed repairs limped on over to dad's place and maybe the vehicle kept dying which might account for all the stopping and starting Moy claims was happening? and maybe it was not on THE night but one just before or just after?

 

[Ontario Mom]

yours got me thinking. Moy may well be familiar with the sound of his neighbors' vehicles. particularly the louder ones. I know I am, I can identify my husband's vehicles in the distance, my next door neighbor's truck, and the guy down the block's motorcycle.

Moy claimed he knew the sound of DM's vehicle, which is how he said with such confidence it was DM's. Which now has me scrolling back to the posts about how and when DM's vehicle ended up at his father's property some 30 minutes away. Maybe what he heard was DM attempting to get a vehicle that needed repairs limped on over to dad's place and maybe the vehicle kept dying which might account for all the stopping and starting Moy claims was happening? and maybe it was not on THE night but one just before or just after?

That actually tracks for sure, especially if the car being moved was done quite recently - close to the date the kids went missing. I've never seen any mention of how long the car had been there though so it's kind of another unknowable. Ugh. I hate that these kids are still missing.

 

[rich4477]

Yes! It's possible the children heard DM or searchers calling and did not respond. Family dynamics are a big factor. Kids learn how to cope.

There was a Netflix show about children lost in the jungle in Columbia for 40 days. They were actively hiding from searchers because they were afraid of their dad (if I remember correctly).

 

[OneLove]

I am concerned that the neighbour didn't report this until a week after the kids disappeared.

Nova Scotia RCMP dispute witness accounts in missing children case

HALIFAX — Nova Scotia RCMP say they have found no evidence to back up witness accounts of a vehicle driving back and forth early in the morning near the rural, northeastern home where two young children went missing in May.

ca.news.yahoo.com

We do not know when the neighbor reported it. We only know the RCMP *did not interview* the neighbor until a week after the kids disappeared.

Its quite possible the "chain of command and custody" for reported tips took this amount of time to work it's way to completion. For all we know, the neighbor called this tip in the same day the kids were reported missing or shortly after the alert went out asking for tips to be called in.

Screening hundreds of called in tips can take considerable time. Just listening to them ALONE takes considerable time. Listening to the "hi, I'm XYZ, a volunteer in my kids classroom and my daughter says last year Lilly told her blah blah blah". All is good information IN GENERAL to get a good snapshot of Jack and Lily's life but only a few needles in the haystack prove to be leads that help solve the actual crime.

 

[musicaljoke]

We do not know when the neighbor reported it. We only know the RCMP *did not interview* the neighbor until a week after the kids disappeared.

Its quite possible the "chain of command and custody" for reported tips took this amount of time to work it's way to completion. For all we know, the neighbor called this tip in the same day the kids were reported missing or shortly after the alert went out asking for tips to be called in.

Screening hundreds of called in tips can take considerable time. Just listening to them ALONE takes considerable time. Listening to the "hi, I'm XYZ, a volunteer in my kids classroom and my daughter says last year Lilly told her blah blah blah". All is good information IN GENERAL to get a good snapshot of Jack and Lily's life but only a few needles in the haystack prove to be leads that help solve the actual crime.

Yes, that is possible, yet it seems that Witness two didn't report until after he had spoken to Witness one.

 

[musicaljoke]

There was a Netflix show about children lost in the jungle in Columbia for 40 days. They were actively hiding from searchers because they were afraid of their dad (if I remember correctly).

When I saw Lily and Jack's tree fort in the woods, I visualized them lost in the woods and covering themselves with a nest of broken branches to hide or keep warm, or just to play their woodsy games.

 

[OneLove]

Yes, that is possible, yet it seems that Witness two didn't report until after he had spoken to Witness one.

Yes, and if there is to be a trial, and if the first neighbor's eye witness is allowed into testimony, I'm sure the 2nd neighbor's confirmation will be used by defense and which one FIRST contacted the other will also come into play.

It's likely, however, that Witness2 called Witness1 to say something along the lines of "hey, I heard Martell again last night running his car in the dead of night. He does that routinely so I'm not sure whether I should tell somebody or not. I keep calling the local office and nobody answers". Witness1 responds "did you know there's a tipline and they're asking people to call anything in. I sure did. Ive been afraid this woukd happen. Here, let me text you that number".

Unless people have some plausible reason to believe neighbor's conspired to set DM up or were both "dazed and confused" as to what they heard and when despite their insistence they were not, odds seem to be on the side of the neighbors being well intentioned and truthful.

Again, the RCMP saying they have been unable to substantiate that with actual video is NOT the same as saying they have disproven that.

It would be interesting to know if DM's car, hauled away so soon after the kids disappearance and his wife's leaving left him with no car, has been either cleaned or fixed or even worked on in any way. Is it at his dad's to stay or is it being fixed to get it back in commission so DM can have his car back? I'd guess investigators are keeping an eye on that?

In the US, that car could not be searched unless a judge signed a search warrant based on cause. I don't know how it is in Canada.

 

[OneLove]

When I saw Lily and Jack's tree fort in the woods, I visualized them lost in the woods and covering themselves with a nest of broken branches to hide or keep warm, or just to play their woodsy games.

Yes, I had hoped. But dogs would have tracked their scent and they picked up none. Then heat sensing drones would have, then cadaver dogs would have.

Its so disheartening. C'mon Jack and Lily; please make yourselves known. You are so very loved by so very many. We all need you to come back.

 

[OneLove]

.... and maybe the vehicle kept dying which might account for all the stopping and starting...

This would have been my first hypothesis if not for the witness saying it went down the road, stopped, paused, and RETURNED over and over again. --I've seen that before, lots, in courts of law before judges and sometimes involving young children, and either the children's custody OR their emergency hospitalizations or deaths. My heart sank. So car trouble hypothesis became runner up, but lagging far behind number one.

 

[sunspun]

The statement by the RCMP doesn’t mention anything about reviewing for sounds or lack thereof. It just refers to ‘vehicle activity’ which is why IMO, rather than seeking noise, lights appearing on the highway (headlights or taillights) is a much simplier way to identify if a vehicle was travelling on the hwy during the night since it might possibly be seen from footage taken from a greater distance away.
JMO

IMBW, but I don't think the neighbors meant that whatever vehicle they heard was "traveling on the hwy", as you said. Which is why to me, it makes sense that the police had no video of it. But as I said, I may be wrong... maybe the neighbors didn't state where they thought the vehicle they heard was moving exactly.

 

[sunspun]

We do not know when the neighbor reported it. We only know the RCMP *did not interview* the neighbor until a week after the kids disappeared.

Its quite possible the "chain of command and custody" for reported tips took this amount of time to work it's way to completion. For all we know, the neighbor called this tip in the same day the kids were reported missing or shortly after the alert went out asking for tips to be called in.

Screening hundreds of called in tips can take considerable time. Just listening to them ALONE takes considerable time. Listening to the "hi, I'm XYZ, a volunteer in my kids classroom and my daughter says last year Lilly told her blah blah blah". All is good information IN GENERAL to get a good snapshot of Jack and Lily's life but only a few needles in the haystack prove to be leads that help solve the actual crime.

I agree, but also a week (6 days actually, IIRC) is not very long, imo. I can see the neighbor hearing about them missing and remembering the vehicle he heard that night, but not saying anything immediately, because of course, we all would always expect the kids to be found right away, right? So why waste your time and the police's time with it at first?

But then, as the days go by and they're not found, and it becomes a much bigger deal that they're missing, and seeing that the police are obviously stumped as to what happened, and that they say they have so little evidence to work with, and you hear they're still asking for any tips, big or small... then it would be only natural for them to have waited until later to contact LE with what they know is possibly irrelevant, but possibly important info.

 

[Ontario Mom]

It would be interesting to know if DM's car, hauled away so soon after the kids disappearance and his wife's leaving left him with no car, has been either cleaned or fixed or even worked on in any way.

Do you have a link source that confirms his car was hauled away after the kids went missing?

 

[MistyWaters]

IMBW, but I don't think the neighbors meant that whatever vehicle they heard was "traveling on the hwy", as you said. Which is why to me, it makes sense that the police had no video of it. But as I said, I may be wrong... maybe the neighbors didn't state where they thought the vehicle they heard was moving exactly.

If it the vehicle was coming and going from the Martell residence than it had to be travelling back and forth on Gairloch Road. I referred to it as a highway since it’s paved. During the middle of the night with no streetlights in rural areas, I wouldn’t expect the RCMP could’ve found video of it and they only said they determined “no vehicle activity”. But other means such as seeking footage of headlights or taillights of a vehicle during the night from more distant camera would indicate vehicle activity, or lack of.
JMO