CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

[seasideForest]

We have family passing multiple lie detector tests. Which yes, are not always correct but usually are

Is there evidence that lie detector tests, or the passing of them, is usually correct?

 

[kathleen harless]

Is there evidence that lie detector tests, or the passing of them, is usually correct?

I also wonder if someone on drugs could pass. They say a sociopath can also pass.

 

[Bigditch]

Does anyone remember reading about a high risk sex offender returning to NS in 2024? Probably can't post the article but it's out there if you google it. (CTV news, Sept 11, 2025)

It has probably been mentioned.
LE would know about it.

 

[Bigditch]

I also wonder if someone on drugs could pass. They say a sociopath can also pass.

I think a clever sociopath, say someone like Bundy, would pass because they understand the psychological rubric that's often used.

 

[tlcya]

There's a reason they aren't admissible in court and are only used as one of many investigative tools. Because they are not infallible, they can be inconclusive and even fooled in some circumstances. They offer no definitive proof of anything whether passed or failed for that reason.

 

[OneLove]

The idea that something happened in the home - by accident or DV - again, hard to imagine how 2 children would perish under these circumstances. One, easily, two, I don’t know.

I also believe it’s possible for 2 children to be hit by a car.

IMHO

These are situations from my experience in child protective service during my social work years:

1) parent gives children each a spoonful of benadryl to put nonsleepy children to sleep but oops, the dose was way too big for the smaller children. In one case, there was a total of SIX children.

2) parent gives children small dose of benadryl to make children sleepy, short time later & under drug-induced extremely impatient jumpiness, gave another dose because 1st dose just wasn't working fast enough to suit. Oops. Overdose.

3) parent gives children benadryl to put children to sleep then under heavy alcohol and drug influence, FORGETS they already dosed and does it again. Oops. Overdose.

4) one parent gives kids benadryl, 2nd parent also doses, not knowing 1st parent had already administered. Oops. Overdose.

5) the parent who is not the one who ordinarily administers benadryl doses the children and mistakes larger tablespoon for smaller teaspoon, thereby giving a triple dose accidentally. Oops. Overdose.

There's more but these are just the *accidental* overdose scenarios, or claimed to be accidental. I don't even want to recall the intentional murders. There are SO many ways to murder and disappear children. We see it ALL the time with adults, especially partners and ex partners and it's way WAY easier to dispose of tiny lightweight children bodies.

And yes yes to the accidentally hitting kids with cars.

Both the drug and the car accident scenarios would lead the average person to seek immediate hair-on-fire panicked emergency aid though.

There are definitely reasons why a person who innocently and mistakenly overdosed a kid or hit them with a car might NOT seek aid though. And that sometimes leads to an even larger situation that sets off investigations that have octopus arms leading in many different directions.

 

[OneLove]

Just posting a simple reminder that the statement "no evidence found" does NOT mean "ruled out" in any sense. Police speak is plain, simple, literal, and without emotion or bias.

It helps immensely, as we wait, to keep emotion and bias from 'coloring' the words released by the RCMP.

Our theories, all of them, are just theories at this point. NOTHING has been ruled out.

 

[su5ie]

There's a reason they aren't admissible in court and are only used as one of many investigative tools. Because they are not infallible, they can be inconclusive and even fooled in some circumstances. They offer no definitive proof of anything whether passed or failed for that reason.

Some times polygraphs are given in case the person being questioned cracks under the pressure and reveals all . Many normal folk would be under the illusion that polygraphs are infallible. Almost like a mechanical truth serum . It wasn't until this case that I learned they are not 100% accurate.

My belief is that they are a tool that will indicate if a person can be calm under stressful lines of questioning . If I'm guilty even though I might think I'm calm my heart rate will go up as the thought prefaces the spoken word . So the reason they are not admissible in court is because some people can lie without flinching . So the heart rate does not go up because lying is natural behaviour for them . Therefore they do not mentally second guess their answers imo of course .

So just because a polygraph is " passed" it does not really indicate truth it just indicates a person's heart rate did not go up during lines of questioning . Hence why janie could not take one or her results could not be taken in to account because of her physiology. I suspect she had high blood pressure which can come with a faster heartbeat jmho

 

[su5ie]

Just posting a simple reminder that the statement "no evidence found" does NOT mean "ruled out" in any sense. Police speak is plain, simple, literal, and without emotion or bias.

It helps immensely, as we wait, to keep emotion and bias from 'coloring' the words released by the RCMP.

Our theories, all of them, are just theories at this point. NOTHING has been ruled out.

Accidental could be one of alternative theories the rcmp are working on

 

[agent902]

Does anyone remember reading about a high risk sex offender returning to NS in 2024? Probably can't post the article but it's out there if you google it. (CTV news, Sept 11, 2025)

It has probably been mentioned.
LE would know about it.

I've read about multiple high risk sex offenders unfortunately residing in Nova Scotia. Douglas Worth, "the Pictou Sadist". George Durling. Gamon Jay Leacock. (I think one or two are back in jail on breach of conditions, but it's a revolving door.)

One repeat-offending pedophile named Gerald Paul Ward has a family connection to someone tangentially related to the case. But he was not in the province at the time, apparently, and it's said he's been ruled out.

 

[Sillybilly]

Do you all think, that LE is paying always attention to the proper time and date of surveillance videos/photos?

Just jumping off your post here with my bit of convoluted thinking / questioning ...

Jack and Lily apparently disappeared Friday morning, May 2.

From what I can see on Google Street View, the neighbours homes are far apart on either side of the Martell property.

1407 Gairloch Rd to Lansdowne Station Road

www.google.ca

Does everybody on Gairlock Road stay up in the wee hours? I find it odd that close neighbours were awake on a Thursday night / Friday morning between the hours of (iirc) 1:00 am and 5:00 am to claim to have seen / heard a vehicle that LE can find no indications of on security cams or anything to support those claims. The one person claims to have heard something. Okay, I can see that waking someone up, but IMO to be specific enough to say it was Daniel's vehicle is questionable. The other neighbour who saw lights must have been awake to see them if his security cam doesn't record lights from the road. If it is normally set to record to the road, why nothing showing the night of May 1/2 as claimed?

No answers, just a lot of JMO

 

[su5ie]

Just jumping off your post here with my bit of convoluted thinking / questioning ...

Jack and Lily apparently disappeared Friday morning, May 2.

From what I can see on Google Street View, the neighbours homes are far apart on either side of the Martell property.

1407 Gairloch Rd to Lansdowne Station Road

www.google.ca

Does everybody on Gairlock Road stay up in the wee hours? I find it odd that close neighbours were awake on a Thursday night / Friday morning between the hours of (iirc) 1:00 am and 5:00 am to claim to have seen / heard a vehicle that LE can find no indications of on security cams or anything to support those claims. The one person claims to have heard something. Okay, I can see that waking someone up, but IMO to be specific enough to say it was Daniel's vehicle is questionable. The other neighbour who saw lights must have been awake to see them if his security cam doesn't record lights from the road. If it is normally set to record to the road, why nothing showing the night of May 1/2 as claimed?

No answers, just a lot of JMO

Good point , if it was two women of a certain age I might say definitely

Jokes aside it would seem strange for anybody to be not only awake at those hours but to be actively looking out the window , or looking in the direction of the road at the exact time lights allegedly lit up the treetops . And to give an exact location ( railway tracks ) from hearing alone .

Would two witnesses fabricate a story like that though in such a serious incident like kids missing? I can understand neighbours having a bone of contention and prehaps making a report to the tax man if you were doing off the books kind of work . But one would want to be very vindictive to actively throw you under the bus by insinuating you (DM)are to blame for children going missing.

And hypothetically if you are that vindictive, are you capable of the worst case scenario which is harming a child to exact revenge on a neighbour you don't like .

 

[Bigditch]

Just jumping off your post here with my bit of convoluted thinking / questioning ...

Jack and Lily apparently disappeared Friday morning, May 2.

From what I can see on Google Street View, the neighbours homes are far apart on either side of the Martell property.

1407 Gairloch Rd to Lansdowne Station Road

www.google.ca

Does everybody on Gairlock Road stay up in the wee hours? I find it odd that close neighbours were awake on a Thursday night / Friday morning between the hours of (iirc) 1:00 am and 5:00 am to claim to have seen / heard a vehicle that LE can find no indications of on security cams or anything to support those claims. The one person claims to have heard something. Okay, I can see that waking someone up, but IMO to be specific enough to say it was Daniel's vehicle is questionable. The other neighbour who saw lights must have been awake to see them if his security cam doesn't record lights from the road. If it is normally set to record to the road, why nothing showing the night of May 1/2 as claimed?

No answers, just a lot of JMO

Wasn't one of the men supposedly working on a vehicle. Unless he has a garage, he'd need plenty of light to see by.

 

[sunspun]

In order to identify ‘vehicle activity’ during the nighttime, it would only be necessary to examine footage for any indication of headlights from a vehicle travelling on Garloch Road to and away from the Martell residence as opposed to total darkness during the entire time in question. In a relatively level area devoid of light pollution, headlights are visable from quite the a distance. If no vehicle could be identified, then its sound becomes inconsequential.

ETA. As the RCMP say they found no evidence of any vehicle activity on Garloch Road during the night (midnight to 5am iirc) that would also indicate none of the Martell vehicles left and came back during those same hours,
JMO

That's why I want to know if those cams they analyzed have audio or not. Because if they do, they should've been able to hear a vehicle, whether they could see it or not.

So now I think there probably was no vehicle activity that night, IF the footage the police viewed does include audio.

If it does not have audio, I still think there may have been vehicle activity as the neighbor described, that wasn't caught on camera.

 

[LadyL]

Oh, just my opinion, I wonder if Canadian le can tell a person they pass a polygraph when they really didnt.

yes
LE can say anything they want to try to move the investigation along
lying is not a crime, nor is it an ethical consideration in an investigation IMO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

No mention of mom being at the vigil. Why??? There is a reason.

One of the 2 MSM articles I linked to said MBM was with her mother on Jack's birthday, the day of the vigil

 

[FromGermany1]

Just jumping off your post here with my bit of convoluted thinking / questioning ...

Jack and Lily apparently disappeared Friday morning, May 2.

From what I can see on Google Street View, the neighbours homes are far apart on either side of the Martell property.

1407 Gairloch Rd to Lansdowne Station Road

www.google.ca

Does everybody on Gairlock Road stay up in the wee hours? I find it odd that close neighbours were awake on a Thursday night / Friday morning between the hours of (iirc) 1:00 am and 5:00 am to claim to have seen / heard a vehicle that LE can find no indications of on security cams or anything to support those claims. The one person claims to have heard something. Okay, I can see that waking someone up, but IMO to be specific enough to say it was Daniel's vehicle is questionable. The other neighbour who saw lights must have been awake to see them if his security cam doesn't record lights from the road. If it is normally set to record to the road, why nothing showing the night of May 1/2 as claimed?

No answers, just a lot of JMO

I am believing the 2 witnesses. DM's car and sound is known to them for a time (how many months/years I don't know), and they at least didn't say, DM had been the driver of this car. They heard the sound and saw the light - finito. One of them is a (hobby?) car mechanic; why should he be mistaken? This type of man is expert, I would say. MOO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

That's why I want to know if those cams they analyzed have audio or not. Because if they do, they should've been able to hear a vehicle, whether they could see it or not.

So now I think there probably was no vehicle activity that night, IF the footage the police viewed does include audio.

If it does not have audio, I still think there may have been vehicle activity as the neighbor described, that wasn't caught on camera.

IMO, there could have been vehicle activity.

We don't know if the video footage LE reviewed was within range of the perimeter of the 2 acre Martell property, or if it had audio or was continuous or only came on and recorded within a certain range like a trail or game cam.

IMO, based on what some of the tips have been and what is known as facts IIRC, if there was vehicle activity on the Martell property in the wee hours:

-- In the 8 or so hours before Lilly and Jack's mother called 911 to report them missing from home & maybe having wandered into the woods around 10 am

-- And MBM & DM told LE they were sleeping in that morning with their youngest until they realized "Lilly and Jack had gone quiet" after them hearing them up & about (paraphrasing here, quotes are linked upthread)

-- After their mother messaged their school earlier around 630am they wouldn't be in attendance that day...

-- And now (see MSM links posted recently upthread) both their mother MBM and "stepfather" DM are both saying / are quoted as saying they no longer think they wandered off & someone somewhere must know something...

Then, IMO, it's possible there was vehicle activity that night which could have been pertinent to Lilly and Jack's disappearance no one in their household heard or were aware of at the time.

Which is, understandable, IMO, when IIRC:

Their family got home late (10pmish) from a day off from school for their older kids after having done laundry and gone shopping & time for bed for their kids.... Meadow at 18 months, with Lilly and Jack at 6 and 4 years, and them having gone to bed in the clothes they were wearing, and Lilly with her backpack & Jack in pullups...

IMO, they all must have been very tired that night.

And if their parents were very tired and they were too that night, perhaps it was a bit of a blurr in terms of when everyone went to sleep and who woke up when and what they did.

So hopeful these young children, Lilly and Jack, will be found soon! Holding them and their loved ones in my heart

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

That's why I want to know if those cams they analyzed have audio or not. Because if they do, they should've been able to hear a vehicle, whether they could see it or not.

So now I think there probably was no vehicle activity that night, IF the footage the police viewed does include audio.

If it does not have audio, I still think there may have been vehicle activity as the neighbor described, that wasn't caught on camera.

The tipster described headlights above the trees so IMO evidence of headlights would be equally a reliable process to verify the tip as attempting to seek out noise. It seems to me whether a noisy or silent vehicle was coming and going from the Martell residence during that night would be information critical to the investigate.

But until the RCMP choose to tell us how the process by which they determined there was no vehicle activity on Garloch Road during the time in question we just don’t know. And anyway they probably aren’t going to. The landowners who provided the footage have the right to privacy. But I have no doubt as to the RCMPs competencies in investigating indications of traffic, seeking out vehicles activity in Canada’s vast rural areas has got to be policing 101.

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

I am believing the 2 witnesses. DM's car and sound is known to them for a time (how many months/years I don't know), and they at least didn't say, DM had been the driver of this car. They heard the sound and saw the light - finito. One of them is a (hobby?) car mechanic; why should he be mistaken? This type of man is expert, I would say. MOO

They originally did say it was DMs car. Without seeing the vehicle, how could they know that? This is a very obvious attempt to try to implicate DM leaving the question of why?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/lilly-jack-sullivan-missing-children-court-documents-car-vehicle-9.6943179

“[Justin Smith] later spoke with Brad Wong who informed him Daniel's vehicle came and went five or six times that night. Wong said the car Smith heard was Daniel.”