CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

[su5ie]

I follow.

If the pants are coming off for a pull up why wouldn’t you put pajamas on.

Yes this is my train of thought .

 

[MistyWaters]

If a father pays child support would he be still considered a legal guardian and if so ,when cps decided to make a call to the home, would he be notified ? I'm wondering if he was contacted prehaps Maleyha was aware of this and thought prehaps Cs took the kids because of this visit .

The problem I have with CS ever having been a suspect in the first place is how would he have known the kids were off school ?

Secondly if Maleyha thought it was cody why were her family accusing DM and why did she blank DM so quickly

Imo something was going on in that home that we are not privy to , DM only has visitation with meadow through cps , I don't know Malehyas custodial status of the little girl . But generally your children going missing innocently is not criteria for removing your other children .

The memo being sent so quickly on the morning they went missing tells me conditions were bad enough the kids should have been removed . DM can spout all he likes the visit was to discuss the need for assessment because of behavioural issues in school , and unless the behaviour was sexual in nature ,cps are not going to call to a home for this . Cps are out the door with case files that kids are falling through the cracks that they would not be using valuable resources to visit a parent to give information about autism assessments imo

In Canada child support and guardianship/custody are two distinct issues. CS didn’t file for custody, so Maleyha was granted sole custody of the children. But that doesn’t pardon CS from paying child support. But noncustodial parents are not involved in decision making matters at all.

I think everyone who has ever lived in a rural multi-generational area would agree that family ties run very deep, there are eyes everywhere and word gets around. At a time I found it rather fascinating, nothing like urban living where people hardly know their neighbours. People might think their business is private but that’s not true at all. That’s a reason why I don’t believe BG didn’t know where her grandchildren lived.

As for custody of the youngest, we’ll probably never know the situation because of strict confidentiality laws regarding children, as it should be. As for autism assessments, CWS are social workers who possibly assist parents with follow through in arranging appointments with medical practitioners to diagnose autism if necessary, but that’s just a guess on my part. If they receive a report I would imagine they’re obliged to followup whether or not future action is required.

 

[sunspun]

Yes this is my train of thought .

So when Jack woke up, he would have been wearing his day clothes from the day before, according to their mother, right?

But when they reported them missing, they described him as being in a PullUp, didn't they? Without pants or jeans. And I thought without a shirt too, but maybe I'm not remembering correctly. But if so, then when he woke up, he undressed himself out of the previous day's clothes, and then just stopped at the PullUp and didn't re-dress himself in clothes for the new day. Is that what supposedly happened? And would this PullUp be the same one he wore out the day and/or evening before and thru the night as well? So it must have been dirty? Or maybe he took that one off and put on a clean one himself. He could probably do that. Maybe Lily would have helped.

 

[su5ie]

So when Jack woke up, he would have been wearing his day clothes from the day before, according to their mother, right?

But when they reported them missing, they described him as being in a PullUp, didn't they? Without pants or jeans. And I thought without a shirt too, but maybe I'm not remembering correctly. But if so, then when he woke up, he undressed himself out of the previous day's clothes, and then just stopped at the PullUp and didn't re-dress himself in clothes for the new day. Is that what supposedly happened? And would this PullUp be the same one he wore out the day and/or evening before and thru the night as well? So it must have been dirty? Or maybe he took that one off and put on a clean one himself. He could probably do that. Maybe Lily would have helped.

I think it was added later in the description that Jack was wearing black tracksuit bottoms , I don't know if a top was added to the official missing persons website,

Edited to add link with description of clothing

Rewards for Major Unsolved Crimes | novascotia.ca

 

[su5ie]

How come no one knows what top jack was wearing when he went missing? He was wearing clothes from day before , so DM , mbm , JmcK and CM ( on video call ) all seen him on Thursday but no one can give a description to LE ???

 

[MistyWaters]

How come no one knows what top jack was wearing when he went missing? He was wearing clothes from day before , so DM , mbm , JmcK and CM ( on video call ) all seen him on Thursday but no one can give a description to LE ???

Good point! Plus RCMP say the family was observed at both the Dollarama and Walmart stores in New Glasgow the prior afternoon. Was Jack wearing a jacket or why isn’t it known what kind of shirt he was wearing by review of the CCTV.

 

[BCSleuth]

I don't know if it's been said by another poster before but I just thought of something, according to documents janie believes the timeline might be wrong but how can that be if she heard them after the 9.48 am phone call with Ron

Could she be mistaken, she was by her own words dozing in her bed ?

Yeah, it seems quite unlikely she actually heard the children that morning. And what I find strange is that it sounds to me like DM is the only one who allegedly actually saw the kids that morning. I'm not convinced they were even there that morning. I would sure like to hear a definite Yes/No from MBM on whether or not she saw the kids that morning and when. Did she see them before she phoned them in sick at 6:15? (Are we even sure it was MBM that made the phone call?) Did she see Lilly poke her head into the bedroom? Did she actually hear them? Or was all that her just repeating narrative provided by DM?

 

[Slebby]

Yes but someone had to put it on

OK, I get it. True. So if the bed time routine of putting on PJs was skipped, the pull-up was too. Which could have been the case. IMO

 

[su5ie]

OK, I get it. True. So if the bed time routine of putting on PJs was skipped, the pull-up was too. Which could have been the case. IMO

And if it wasn't skipped or a new one wasn't put on , it's more surprising then that the first scent dogs didn't trace the children any further than the yard

 

[MistyWaters]

And if it wasn't skipped or a new one wasn't put on , it's more surprising then that the first scent dogs didn't trace the children any further than the yard

Pull-ups used to referred to as potty training pants, they’re really only disposable underwear. A 4 year old child would have to be either severely physically handicapped or developmentally delayed to be unable to slip a pair on or off. It wouldn’t require any greater dexterity than taking off a coat or putting one on. If one needed to be changed the weight due to the ‘accident’ would cause the pull-up to gradually slide downward on the child’s legs. So if Jack still required pull-ups, I’d imagine he’d just put a new pair on in the morning.

I’m unable to find reference that scent dogs are able to identify who they are tracking through urine (or blood) so whether Jack was wearing pull-ups or not that morning might not have mattered. IMO too many people including panicked family, LE and initial searchers arriving, headed every direction into the woods calling out for the children by the time the dogs and their handlers arrived. For that reason along with others, SAR dogs can be unsuccessful in their pursuit of the missing. Tracking dogs are never a 100% sure thing.
JMO

 

[Bigditch]

Yeah, it seems quite unlikely she actually heard the children that morning. And what I find strange is that it sounds to me like DM is the only one who allegedly actually saw the kids that morning. I'm not convinced they were even there that morning. I would sure like to hear a definite Yes/No from MBM on whether or not she saw the kids that morning and when. Did she see them before she phoned them in sick at 6:15? (Are we even sure it was MBM that made the phone call?) Did she see Lilly poke her head into the bedroom? Did she actually hear them? Or was all that her just repeating narrative provided by DM?

I believe mbm used an app to mark the children absent.

 

[su5ie]

Pull-ups used to referred to as potty training pants, they’re really only disposable underwear. A 4 year old child would have to be either severely physically handicapped or developmentally delayed to be unable to slip a pair on or off. It wouldn’t require any greater dexterity than taking off a coat or putting one on. If one needed to be changed the weight due to the ‘accident’ would cause the pull-up to gradually slide downward on the child’s legs. So if Jack still required pull-ups, I’d imagine he’d just put a new pair on in the morning.

I’m unable to find reference that scent dogs are able to identify who they are tracking through urine (or blood) so whether Jack was wearing pull-ups or not that morning might not have mattered. IMO too many people including panicked family, LE and initial searchers arriving, headed every direction into the woods calling out for the children by the time the dogs and their handlers arrived. For that reason along with others, SAR dogs can be unsuccessful in their pursuit of the missing. Tracking dogs are never a 100% sure thing.
JMO

Just fyi Children with autism can find it very difficult to coordinate getting dressed . I still assist my 15 year old. I know jack was not diagnosed but it was suspected according to mbm and it was reported in msm as such .

You are correct in saying a pull up can slide down the legs but while a child will discard it if it does very rarely will they put another back on and while pull ups are not quite as bulky as a nappy they are still filled out enough to be a little more than training pants .

But that's neither here nor there , my point I suppose was if the pull up was only required at night why wasn't his pj's put on but the pull up it's self is not really relevant to his disappearance but what is relevant is that to go to the effort of putting it on why not get the child ready in appropriate clothing for bed .

And I suppose the crux of the matter is that we don't really have any independent evidence the kids arrived home from grocery shopping we really only have the word of 3 people whom although they are deemed to have told the truth according to the polygraph but this is really inadmissible if it came before a court of law it would not be used as evidence. And for me the timeline of the kids disappearance starts on Thursday at about 2.30 pm when they were seen on cctv

This is the only provable proof of life and with details so scant and varied , it's the finer details like why his pj's where not put on when the child would have to be bottom half stripped to put one on . But again pj's being on him would not make a difference to him going missing.

I think for me reading the testament in the documents of the Wednesday, Thursday and Friday morning raise questions as to what the adults were doing that made them so tired that two children were not provided with enough care that would be considered routine in most functional households no matter how naturally tired parents are . Parenting is tiring by nature , it's also our responsibility to ensure our children are safe and cared for and our needs come second .

I'm not critical of MBM and DM wanting a lie in but their priorities cost them two beautiful children and I hope and pray it was just a wandering

 

[su5ie]

Taking into consideration that there is no poi and the family are victims. If you had five minutes with mbm , janie and DM what question( s) would you ask that hasn't been answered ? I will go first .

What did you hear the kids talking about in the bedroom that morning?

What were the kids excited / hyper about the night before ?

Did the kids ever hide when they knew they were in trouble ?

Did the kids help or know you
were raking for a pool ?

 

[sunspun]

Just fyi Children with autism can find it very difficult to coordinate getting dressed . I still assist my 15 year old. I know jack was not diagnosed but it was suspected according to mbm and it was reported in msm as such .

You are correct in saying a pull up can slide down the legs but while a child will discard it if it does very rarely will they put another back on and while pull ups are not quite as bulky as a nappy they are still filled out enough to be a little more than training pants .

But that's neither here nor there , my point I suppose was if the pull up was only required at night why wasn't his pj's put on but the pull up it's self is not really relevant to his disappearance but what is relevant is that to go to the effort of putting it on why not get the child ready in appropriate clothing for bed .

And I suppose the crux of the matter is that we don't really have any independent evidence the kids arrived home from grocery shopping we really only have the word of 3 people whom although they are deemed to have told the truth according to the polygraph but this is really inadmissible if it came before a court of law it would not be used as evidence. And for me the timeline of the kids disappearance starts on Thursday at about 2.30 pm when they were seen on cctv

This is the only provable proof of life and with details so scant and varied , it's the finer details like why his pj's where not put on when the child would have to be bottom half stripped to put one on . But again pj's being on him would not make a difference to him going missing.

I think for me reading the testament in the documents of the Wednesday, Thursday and Friday morning raise questions as to what the adults were doing that made them so tired that two children were not provided with enough care that would be considered routine in most functional households no matter how naturally tired parents are . Parenting is tiring by nature , it's also our responsibility to ensure our children are safe and cared for and our needs come second .

I'm not critical of MBM and DM wanting a lie in but their priorities cost them two beautiful children and I hope and pray it was just a wandering

So I know the Pullups are not the issue here, but I'm just trying to get a better picture of everything... so if they were put to bed in the clothes they wore that day, no pajamas, then you're thinking mom would have had to remove the day pants to put on a clean Pullup, then... put the day pants back on him again? And that's what you're questioning, why, if she did all that, did she not just put pj pants on at that point?

If that's what you mean, then I agree, that's a perfectly sensible question.

But would he have necessarily been wearing pullups all day? Some wear nights only? But that still would be the same scenario, sorry, I see that now.

So what about this? Let's say he did have Pullups on during the day, and when they got home and put them to bed wearing the clothes they'd been in all day, like she said, then would she have just left the same Pullups on him and put him to bed? I'm assuming that at the end of a day wearing Pullups, that the Pullups are dirty? Or maybe not. Maybe she didn't even think about if they were dirty or not. Maybe she just let him go to bed wearing his day clothes, like she said, which included the Pullups he had on for the day, dirty or not?

I don't know, this matters not at all, I know. But no matter what he went to bed in, he must have woke up and found clean pants and maybe a clean Pullup too, if they said he was last seen (that morning, briefly) wearing black track pants... maybe.

Grrr, again, some overly and unnecessarily vague info they've reported, on what I feel should be straightforward and is also important to the case, imo!

 

[Twistinginthewind]

A few thoughts to add on recent posts, just spitballing here:

I helped raise a boy who has a sister 2 years older like Jack and Lilly. He was not "fully toilet trained" until he was 6 years old. When he was 2 through 6 he did use the toilet (potty chair) with some success, when he could, but he had a lot of 'accidents' so graduated from diapers to pullups around 3 years old and always had them on in lieu of underwear.

He would take them down like undies to go potty if the circumstances were right AND adults nearby or older sis/his helpmate were keeping an eye on him & helping him go in the appropriate manner.

He wasn't able to be accepted into nursery school and kindergarten programs from 4 to 6 unless he was "toilet trained" & had to have 2 changes of clothes always at school & the pullups were not allowed as a constant backup.

When not at school, which was a higher bar, he would default to wearing pullups and would know during time at home and out & about he could "go" if he needed to and there wasn't a toilet right there and he didn't have help from his older sis and adults nearby.

For Jack and Lilly, if they were similar developmentally, they could have been in charge of their own toileting (and washing & dressing) for the most part, and if/when their parents were busy &/or tired especially towards bedtime, it could have been as simple as one or the other parent (or even Lilly) asking if he was "ready for bed" because they knew the self care routine well enough & saying "yup, I went & have my pullup on" would be all that was needed to satisfy a busy/tired parent.

As far as Lilly and Jack not changing into PJs the night before they disappeared & Lilly keeping her backpack nearby and the lack of clarity on what each was wearing that morning, I will have to punt on that aspect and just hazard a guess their parents were very tired and were not paying attention. Because IIRC, DM had worked an overnight shift at the mill that week and worked late on the fence/play structure and told MBM he was going to clean the trailer after the rest of the family went to bed, and MBM was busy/tired with caring for their toddler & her too sick to go to school 4 and 6 year olds.

Their parents must have been so tired from a busy week doing laundry, shopping, DM's overnight work shift, Lilly sick with a cough (& Jack kept home as well just in case I read in one MSM article), which on top of it was a long weekend/half week off for school for them, so a chance to sleep in and not have to worry about/get a break from the early morning ready for school routine.

I wonder how much Lilly was counted on with caring for her little brother, and if it was to the point where she knew much more than their parental units about her and Jack's toileting, dressing, washing, feeding themselves, etc.

In fact, that article I read -- will try to find a link if anyone wants to read it, it appeared in a smaller newspaper maybe 4 months ago & rehashed alot already known but was the first time I read it was Lilly who had a cough & Jack also was kept home out of an abundance of caution type of thing in case he also was getting her cough -- now makes me wonder if Jack would ever go to school (or anywhere) without Lilly to attend to him.

JMO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

IMO, no one but them truly know what Lilly and Jack's lives were like in their household on a daily basis.

I grew up in a rural area, and there were lots of families at the time around me whose older girls were literally assigned to take care of and look after a specific younger sibling day in and day out, and were responsible for them in every way a mother was, and there was no thought of bucking the system in place, because it was necessary to the survival and well being of the family unit.

Some of the girls I knew who took care of their younger siblings were only 6 years old at the time, or even younger. Granted it was back in the 60s, and rural, but my 6 year old sister was enlisted to look after me because we had 2 siblings between us our mother was taking care of.

I'm not saying necessarily this type of expectation was in place with Lilly and her needing to look after Jack so much, but I wouldn't put it past their custodial parents or other parents in their situation.

Epecially if their mother was overwhelmed as a stay at home mom with caring for them (and in the moment while off sick from school), as well as their half sibling (toddler) sister, while their stepfather was a busy guy around their property apparently, and out of work recently but still trying to provide for them all, with issues of his own he has admitted to grappling with.

JMO, and not meaning to imply anything in reality in terms of what Lilly might have had to shoulder as a 6 year old big sister to 4 year old Jack and even 18 month old at the time Meadow, living in that environment, because we don't know, and probably never will. Just sharing a perspective from my upbringing.

"Mother's little helper" was a reality during my upbringing, and families with more than 1 kid then would not have been able to function as well if the older female children weren't taking care of the littler ones, and older boys weren't doing what they were assigned to do.

So mom and dad could focus on running the household and managing the property, while caring for the littlest ones, and trying to bring in and sustain a regular needs-based income, with help from nearby family, friends, or neighbors to support their family unit.

Of course the boys had their roles and expectations too, and were responsible for a lot as well, it was just more typical for the older girls to step in to the mothering role in my experience, which might/could have been at play in this situation with Lilly being a girl 2 years older than her brother Jack, MOO.

I realize this line of thinking may sound outdated or not typical of parenting styles today.

However, IMO, rural living while raising a family and struggling to make ends meet is a reality for many, and the parents do sometimes need their older children to help out with the littler ones.

If Jack as the younger child of the two (he & Lilly from MBM's ex CS, from at least 3 years before when she then partnered with DM, IIRC), was just at an age where he could attend public school (at 4 he must have been in preschool or kindergarten) still in pullups at times (?) and potentially having some developmental issues his school staff was concerned about and his custodial parents implied he was outgoing/rambunctious (paraphrasing)...

Then perhaps his big sis stepped in as she was able to help her parents out and to look after him, and could have taken on getting him to bed, PJs on or not, in their own shared bedroom like peas in a pod, and their parents may not have seen or heard or been aware of everything they did if they seemed okay.

Just saying & MOO

 

[su5ie]

IMO, no one but them truly know what Lilly and Jack's lives were like in their household on a daily basis.

I grew up in a rural area, and there were lots of families at the time around me whose older girls were literally assigned to take care of and look after a specific younger sibling day in and day out, and were responsible for them in every way a mother was, and there was no thought of bucking the system in place, because it was necessary to the survival and well being of the family unit.

Some of the girls I knew who took care of their younger siblings were only 6 years old at the time, or even younger. Granted it was back in the 60s, and rural, but my 6 year old sister was enlisted to look after me because we had 2 siblings between us our mother was taking care of.

I'm not saying necessarily this type of expectation was in place with Lilly and her needing to look after Jack so much, but I wouldn't put it past their custodial parents or other parents in their situation.

Epecially if their mother was overwhelmed as a stay at home mom with caring for them (and in the moment while off sick from school), as well as their half sibling (toddler) sister, while their stepfather was a busy guy around their property apparently, and out of work recently but still trying to provide for them all, with issues of his own he has admitted to grappling with.

JMO, and not meaning to imply anything in reality in terms of what Lilly might have had to shoulder as a 6 year old big sister to 4 year old Jack and even 18 month old at the time Meadow, living in that environment, because we don't know, and probably never will. Just sharing a perspective from my upbringing.

"Mother's little helper" was a reality during my upbringing, and families with more than 1 kid then would not have been able to function as well if the older female children weren't taking care of the littler ones, and older boys weren't doing what they were assigned to do.

So mom and dad could focus on running the household and managing the property, while caring for the littlest ones, and trying to bring in and sustain a regular needs-based income, with help from nearby family, friends, or neighbors to support their family unit.

Of course the boys had their roles and expectations too, and were responsible for a lot as well, it was just more typical for the older girls to step in to the mothering role in my experience, which might/could have been at play in this situation with Lilly being a girl 2 years older than her brother Jack, MOO.

I realize this line of thinking may sound outdated or not typical of parenting styles today.

However, IMO, rural living while raising a family and struggling to make ends meet is a reality for many, and the parents do sometimes need their older children to help out with the littler ones.

If Jack as the younger child of the two (he & Lilly from MBM's ex CS, from at least 3 years before when she then partnered with DM, IIRC), was just at an age where he could attend public school (at 4 he must have been in preschool or kindergarten) still in pullups at times (?) and potentially having some developmental issues his school staff was concerned about and his custodial parents implied he was outgoing/rambunctious (paraphrasing)...

Then perhaps his big sis stepped in as she was able to help her parents out and to look after him, and could have taken on getting him to bed, PJs on or not, in their own shared bedroom like peas in a pod, and their parents may not have seen or heard or been aware of everything they did if they seemed okay.

Just saying & MOO

I know it was said by janie that all she would regularly hear was lilly saying " Jackie come on ' 'Jackie look at this " Etc so one would assume from that information that lilly was the lead sibling and coaxed him along throughout the day . So it's not out of the realm of possibilities that she also encouraged him to do tasks like toileting, getting dressed , or other such stuff . I would imagine very much that he depended on her for some nurture and looked to her for guidance . You can see from the few photos released she did tend to mind him and loved him a lot and most likely comforted him in moments were things were difficult imo

Their relationship as described by janie doesn't exactly lend to the description of lilly giving her much loved brother black eyes jmho

 

[Alice Ramnit]

It’s just interesting to me, in the realm of theorizing possible scenarios, how the only person who stood to gain from the disappearance of Lilly and Jack, who LE received a tip about and who was also named by MBM is rarely if ever mentioned.
JMO

Not sure whether this article has been posted yet...nothing new or surprising but a good summary of the facts.

Six Months Later, Questions Still Surround Disappearance of Lilly and Jack Sullivan in N.S.

Exploring the ongoing mystery of Lilly and Jack Sullivan's disappearance in Nova Scotia, as the community seeks answers.

montreal-daily.com

 

[Serononin]

I grew up in a rural area, and there were lots of families at the time around me whose older girls were literally assigned to take care of and look after a specific younger sibling day in and day out, and were responsible for them in every way a mother was, and there was no thought of bucking the system in place, because it was necessary to the survival and well being of the family unit.

Some of the girls I knew who took care of their younger siblings were only 6 years old at the time, or even younger. Granted it was back in the 60s, and rural, but my 6 year old sister was enlisted to look after me because we had 2 siblings between us our mother was taking care of.

RSBM

Like the Duggars and their "buddy system"

 

[su5ie]

Not sure whether this article has been posted yet...nothing new or surprising but a good summary of the facts.

Six Months Later, Questions Still Surround Disappearance of Lilly and Jack Sullivan in N.S.

Exploring the ongoing mystery of Lilly and Jack Sullivan's disappearance in Nova Scotia, as the community seeks answers.

montreal-daily.com

Alice thanks so much for posting, it's a well laid out article abet a little repetitive but a great reference when trying to recall all the details . I like the Q&A format too .

The journalist must have read our minds or posts

Jack may not have been wearing a pull up
And lilly may have had her backpack

Interestingly it would seem the RCMP's take the 1st of May at grocery shopping as last verified sighting so I'm assuming that any account of kids been seen or heard by family members can't be verified as fact yet ?