CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

[MistyWaters]

I do find it strange that if it was ruled out and this lady came forward that it has not been stated publicly like the release of the speculated vehicle on Thursday night / Friday early hours

The information about the tip wasn’t publicly known until August when the media released the documents. No way do I think the RCMP was seeking this woman from May all the way until August without ever putting a description of the woman and the car into the public. Possibly all they needed to do was run a registration search to find a vehicle of that description and then contact her. Nothing was ever said, so to me it’s was an obvious non-issue.

Unfortunately there’s nothing to talk about, no updates either.
JMO

 

[su5ie]

The information about the tip wasn’t publicly known until August when the media released the documents. No way do I think the RCMP was seeking this woman from May all the way until August without ever putting a description of the woman and the car into the public. Possibly all they needed to do was run a registration search to find a vehicle of that description and then contact her. Nothing was ever said, so to me it’s was an obvious non-issue.
JMO

Either was it known about the alleged vehicle and surely both deserved to be addressed equally

 

[Ontario Mom]

It does sound like them to me. Especially when you consider that no one ever stepped up and said, "Oh, that was me and my children...: Was this publicized enough so that you would expect that whoever it was, would have heard it on the news? Even if they weren't local to the area, I would've thought they would have heard about it.

Would it be rare for someone just passing thru town to be parked there where the witness said she saw them? Is this a connecting road/highway between towns that non-locals would be traveling on?

We don't know if that's the case. It's possible someone did contact the RCMP and they've just never said anything publicly about it.

jmo

 

[Slebby]

The only other reason I can think of a motorist stopping and holding the door open as two kids approached . If it was not jack and lilly And it's fairly innocent and if anyone has young children I can almost guarantee it has happened at least once .

Younger child is bursting for a wee ,can't hold it older child is entrusted to bring sibling just off road to go . While adult remains with vehicle in case road traffic cop happens upon their vehicle parked in a no parking / stopping zone

I have thought of that as well - as it is with small kids, you get a few miles down the road, and wouldn’t you know it, they need to pee.
IMO

 

[tlcya]

We don't know if that's the case. It's possible someone did contact the RCMP and they've just never said anything publicly about it.

jmo

this is what I think may have happened. If LE still had no idea who the woman or the children reportedly seen I would expect the to be pursing that lead far more vigorously in a public fashion. Since we've never heard another peep about her/them, I suspect RCMP were able to satisfy themselves the sighting had nothing to do with this case.

 

[Slebby]

It’s interesting to me that LE has expressly “disputed witness accounts” with respect to the alleged vehicle activity reported by 2 witnesses, but they have not expressly disputed the reported sighting of the 2 children with the woman in the tan car. It might mean nothing, but it just indicates a different treatment of these witness accounts.

IMO

Nova Scotia RCMP dispute witness accounts in missing children case

“Nova Scotia RCMP say they have found no evidence to back up witness accounts of a vehicle driving back and forth early in the morning near the rural, northeastern home where two young children went missing in May.”

 

[tlcya]

It’s interesting to me that LE has expressly “disputed witness accounts” with respect to the alleged vehicle activity reported by 2 witnesses, but they have not expressly disputed the reported sighting of the 2 children with the woman in the tan car. It might mean nothing, but it just indicates a different treatment of these witness accounts.

IMO

Nova Scotia RCMP dispute witness accounts in missing children case

“Nova Scotia RCMP say they have found no evidence to back up witness accounts of a vehicle driving back and forth early in the morning near the rural, northeastern home where two young children went missing in May.”

I do not interpret "we can't find evidence to back up witness accounts" to mean "we dispute witness accounts"

In my mind those statements do not share the same meaning.

RCMP met with the witness who claimed to have seen two children aged approx 9-10 and 5 in June. We heard about her in the court doc dump that was done in late August. To me it suggests they've perhaps learned something after the date those court docs were filed so we don't know about it.

 

[MistyWaters]

Either was it known about the alleged vehicle and surely both deserved to be addressed equally

The RCMP have stated several times they investigate all tips. However the public wasn’t aware of this one until August but they had over three months to do so.

The reality of the situation is it’s impossible to lead the RCMPs investigation from our keyboards.

 

[Slebby]

I do not interpret "we can't find evidence to back up witness accounts" to mean "we dispute witness accounts"

In my mind those statements do not share the same meaning.

RCMP met with the witness who claimed to have seen two children aged approx 9-10 and 5 in June. We heard about her in the court doc dump that was done in late August. To me it suggests they've perhaps learned something after the date those court docs were filed so we don't know about it.

I used the word “dispute” because that’s the word used in the headline of the article I linked. But you’re right, in the actual body of the article, LE said they “found no evidence”, which is not the same.
IMO

 

[su5ie]

The RCMP have stated several times they investigate all tips. However the public wasn’t aware of this one until August but they had over three months to do so.

The reality of the situation is it’s impossible to lead the RCMPs investigation from our keyboards.

Of course we arent going to help solve this case , we are just chatting about aspects of the case that have been put in the public domain, as it is an interest of ours to discuss and hypothesis about cases in msm as others would prehaps discuss their hobbies.

It is interesting to get everyone's input though and it helps me keep an open mind by hearing other posters perspectives, I also learn so much about the workings of not only investigations but the workings of different law enforcement agencies world wide .it is what attracted me to webslueths. I like when posters write up something I didn't think of or is outside the box It would be slightly boring and akin to fb pages filled with thoughts and prayers and candle emojis if our opinions didn't differ

I like your input here and your post does give me a reality check that this is a live investigation as i need that sometimes and we can only hope the professionals will solve it sooner rather than later .

 

[MistyWaters]

Of course we arent going to help solve this case , we are just chatting about aspects of the case that have been put in the public domain, as it is an interest of ours to discuss and hypothesis about cases in msm as others would prehaps discuss their hobbies.

It is interesting to get everyone's input though and it helps me keep an open mind by hearing other posters perspectives, I also learn so much about the workings of not only investigations but the workings of different law enforcement agencies world wide .it is what attracted me to webslueths. I like when posters write up something I didn't think of or is outside the box It would be slightly boring and akin to fb pages filled with thoughts and prayers and candle emojis if our opinions didn't differ

I like your input here and your post does give me a reality check that this is a live investigation as i need that sometimes and we can only hope the professionals will solve it sooner rather than later .

Yes we all hope the mysterious disappearances of Lilly and Jack will be solved sooner than later.

One thing to keep in mind, the RCMP in Canada are notoriously tight-lipped, as has been mentioned. They’re not about to publicize who or what is the focus of their investigation. LE in other countries tend to be far more forthcoming, specifically in the US. That can make following cases in Canada not too riveting, in fact if there’s an arrest we don’t learn why until the trial occurs, often a year or two down the road.

It’s the redacted information that can’t be read in the August documents that would be the most revealing as to the direction the investigation might be headed. But we just don’t know.
JMO

 

[su5ie]

Yes we all hope the mysterious disappearances of Lilly and Jack will be solved sooner than later.

One thing to keep in mind, the RCMP in Canada are notoriously tight-lipped, as has been mentioned. They’re not about to publicize who or what is the focus of their investigation. LE in other countries tend to be far more forthcoming, specifically in the US. That can make following cases in Canada not too riveting, in fact if there’s an arrest we don’t learn why until the trial occurs, often a year or two down the road.

It’s the redacted information that can’t be read in the August documents that would be the most revealing as to the direction the investigation might be headed. But we just don’t know.
JMO

Oh that's very interesting that the court papers with the laid charges we usually see in American cases would not be shown in Canadian ones until a trial .

<modsnip: Different case; off topic>

 

[Bigditch]

The issue I'm wrestling with is the fact that Nova Scotia has a human trafficking problem. I'm not talking about a stranger abduction, but a known circle of people working in tandem to carry out their crimes. All they'd need to lure a child -- a bag of candy.

Or someone solo. It wouldn't be unheard of for a spouse to aid in an abduction. There are some very sick folks out there.

All my own opinion of course, and none of it cemented in stone, but for me it's the scenario that makes the most sense.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

The thing is, we have the RCMP saying there was no vehicle, which basically rules out a stranger abduction. We have family passing multiple lie detector tests. Which yes, are not always correct but usually are. And then, of course, a massive search turned up no sign of them. So where does that leave us?

Good points.

Under this scenario, which is helpful to frame anew what might have happened to Lilly and Jack, looking back, sadly, 7 months+ now since they disappeared, regarding one possible answer to the question" "So where does this leave us?"

IMO, overarchingly, if all the above presumptions are true, it still could make sense, looking at what would be:

"Someone Who Was Not":

-- A stranger to Lilly and Jack
(e.g., someone who knew of them, but they didn't know -- IIRC, one of their neighbors said they didn't know any kids lived on the Martell property?)

-- A random person coming upon them by happenstance that morning
(e.g., someone who would grab them from playing in their front yard after they were known to their school to be "out sick with a cough" and see 2 unattended children with no adults around -- IIRC, there was an MSM article about 6 weeks ago which said only Lilly had a cough and Jack was kept home as well to be on the safe side).

-- A family member who "passed" (paraphrasing of course) polygraphs during which they were asked about them disappearing and the possible circumstances under which they disappeared
(e.g., DM & MBM, and IIRC, DM's mother was also subject to a polygraph [as were 50 plus some people, IIRC or at least that many people were interviewed by LE with polygraphs available to be used with consent if needed).

Although DM's mother who lived on the property's physiology wasn't suitable for LE to interpret her results and/or something along those lines.

Also, IIRC, DM's brother, who at first was said to have also lived on the property, but that was later discounted, was shown in a photo with DM sitting behind him on DM's recreational/all terrain type vehicle/all wheel drive with a long bed seat which could hold several people, that looked like it was a snapshot or still from a video of the brothers having just come back from driving around looking for Lilly and Jack that morning.

IiRC, he (DM's brother) was behind DM in the driver's seat leaning back and looking away in that shot of them together on DM's recreational vehicle.

So... it must have been "someone (else), somewhere, who must know something" about Lilly and Jack vanishing that fateful morning.

Unless they "wandered off into the woods" and haven't been able to be found.

Also, long windedly catching up here...

IIRC, DM said he thought (after the fact) he heard a scream/screams, while LE was searching, initially, which he said was drowned out by helicopter noise from SAR teams.

Perhaps DM thinking he heard a scream(s) could have been wildlife doing what they do or reacting to the loud unusual presence out there in the remote territory of LE SAR teams descending in full force.

Or it could have been Lilly and/or Jack screaming because they had wandered too far and/or met up with someone who they initially thought was a good person with a good scheme for them to "go on an adventure while mom & dad & baby sister were sleeping in on a day off from school" they were willing to meet up with at first, who turned out to be somehow scary/ not what they seemed, when push came to shove...

JMM (just my musings)

 

[MistyWaters]

Good points.

Under this scenario, which is helpful to frame anew what might have happened to Lilly and Jack, looking back, sadly, 7 months+ now since they disappeared, regarding one possible answer to the question" "So where does this leave us?"

IMO, overarchingly, if all the above presumptions are true, it still could make sense, looking at what would be:

"Someone Who Was Not":

-- A stranger to Lilly and Jack
(e.g., someone who knew of them, but they didn't know -- IIRC, one of their neighbors said they didn't know any kids lived on the Martell property?)

-- A random person coming upon them by happenstance that morning
(e.g., someone who would grab them from playing in their front yard after they were known to their school to be "out sick with a cough" and see 2 unattended children with no adults around -- IIRC, there was an MSM article about 6 weeks ago which said only Lilly had a cough and Jack was kept home as well to be on the safe side).

-- A family member who "passed" (paraphrasing of course) polygraphs during which they were asked about them disappearing and the possible circumstances under which they disappeared
(e.g., DM & MBM, and IIRC, DM's mother was also subject to a polygraph [as were 50 plus some people, IIRC or at least that many people were interviewed by LE with polygraphs available to be used with consent if needed).

Although DM's mother who lived on the property's physiology wasn't suitable for LE to interpret her results and/or something along those lines.

Also, IIRC, DM's brother, who at first was said to have also lived on the property, but that was later discounted, was shown in a photo with DM sitting behind him on DM's recreational/all terrain type vehicle/all wheel drive with a long bed seat which could hold several people, that looked like it was a snapshot or still from a video of the brothers having just come back from driving around looking for Lilly and Jack that morning.

IiRC, he (DM's brother) was behind DM in the driver's seat leaning back and looking away in that shot of them together on DM's recreational vehicle.

So... it must have been "someone (else), somewhere, who must know something" about Lilly and Jack vanishing that fateful morning.

Unless they "wandered off into the woods" and haven't been able to be found.

Also, long windedly catching up here...

IIRC, DM said he thought (after the fact) he heard a scream/screams, while LE was searching, initially, which he said was drowned out by helicopter noise from SAR teams.

Perhaps DM thinking he heard a scream(s) could have been wildlife doing what they do or reacting to the loud unusual presence out there in the remote territory of LE SAR teams descending in full force.

Or it could have been Lilly and/or Jack screaming because they had wandered too far and/or met up with someone who they initially thought was a good person with a good scheme for them to "go on an adventure while mom & dad & baby sister were sleeping in on a day off from school" they were willing to meet up with at first, who turned out to be somehow scary/ not what they seemed, when push came to shove...

JMM (just my musings)

Adding to your list
- biodad who passed a polygraph but was the only person who stood to financially benefit from the children’s disappearance, conflicting stories have him either paying child support or not at the time. If he was not, I’m doubtful it’s true he had no contact with Maleyha in the past two or three years, nor do I believe neither mother nor son knew where the children lived during the past two years, given apparently it was only 1/2 hr away.

I’m also somewhat suspicious of BG’s motivation that might be behind her grandmotherly love and concern of her lost grandchildren because it seems as if it clouds the fact of her son’s utter abandonment of them. A man fathers two children and then completely walks away from any responsibility throughout their childhood. I can’t help it, the word ‘disposable’ comes to mind. I might be wrong, we know nothing about him, but he has also not publicly expressed any concern nor regrets.

ETA What prompted Maleyha to suspect him?
JMO

 

[su5ie]

The intial narrative pushed by DM and MBM of the kids being trusting and they would go with anyone. And they wouldn't understand stranger danger etc . Is something I always felt the kids would instinctively know not to do . They are / were 4 and 6 they were / are not toddlers

By nature kids don't usually approach strangers with warmth and trust unless they are used to strangers coming and going from their home and they see mom and dad chit chatting and they then see it as something normal .
A child doesn't have to be particularly shy to not engage in this behaviour. It's just they rarely see beyond their family unit . And don't engage with strangers Young Children will generally give you the stare if you even try engage in conversation nowadays because there is so much awareness.

Yes kids not taught stranger danger may take sweets from someone they or their parents never met . But kids are taught stranger danger in school from very young so I would imagine lilly at least would be aware.

I can understand a parent wanting every angle covered just in case and I do not blame mbm for pushing for an Amber Alert. I would imagine if i was in her situation , I would want a barrier put in place covering the entire country until my child was found .

But what I don't understand is why DM jumped into the car to search without checking to see if the kids were with his mum . Janie tells us that she only found out they were missing because she came out from her RV because DM was shouting for the kids and she came across mbm in the yard with meadow . I also wonder did DM call into or ring his other family members whom lived on landsdowne Road to check if the kids wandered over to their houses . And for that matter did he contact his neighbours to begin checking their properties too . This is normally what parents of missing children do , they check with those in the immediate vicinity if for nothing else but help

My elderly neighbour went missing a couple of months back and his wife immediately called into all the neighbours on the road to check if he was there then neighbours were able to help by driving around looking throughout the area ,searching properties and phoning police . Maybe some people preform better in flight / fright / freeze / fawn mode . We did find him and it was a nice sense of a community coming together to help one another

I don't see the usual interviews with close friends and neighbours that might be commonplace in other case . And I'm surprised FN are not more vocal too considering the children or at least mbm was part of that community .

There is a lot of uncommon occurrences with this case and I think that's what makes it harder to piece together.

The RCMPs choosing what evidence and tips to downplay and the way those statements are worded is very confusing. I do think they ruled out abduction very quickly as it meant it closed off a lot of potential to gain 8mformation from further afield and gave people the impression that the kids were in a small contained search area and maybe they are but I feel it narrowed the scope quite quickly .

Just adding my rambling thoughts

 

[su5ie]

Adding to your list
- biodad who passed a polygraph but was the only person who stood to financially benefit from the children’s disappearance, conflicting stories have him either paying child support or not at the time. If he was not, I’m doubtful it’s true he had no contact with Maleyha in the past two or three years, nor do I believe neither mother nor son knew where the children where living during the past two years.

I’m also somewhat suspicious of BG’s motivation that might be behind her grandmotherly love and concern of her lost grandchildren because it seems as if it clouds the fact of her son’s utter abandonment of them. A man fathers two children and then completely walks away from any responsibility throughout their childhood. I can’t help it, the word ‘disposable’ comes to mind. I might be wrong, we know nothing about him, but he has also not publicly expressed any concern nor regrets.
JMO

While i agree with where your coming from I think BG deserves a bit of slack because I think she is riddled with guilt and she is doing now what she feels she should have done before the kids were missing . I see a woman who is absolutely heartbroken and trying to keep her head above water by being proactive .

CS on the other hand sounds like he washed his hands 3 years ago and that was that , Some men , dysfunctional ones mind you see children as an extension of the mother and once their relationship with the mother breaks down ,the children are deemed her responsibility and he carries on with his life as if he had no children in the first place . I certainly as a lone parent do not condone this I'm just saying it happens quite frequently.

When I view the children's entire family I see a lot of patterns of dysfunction. There seems to be on all sides broken marriages ,siblings from different fathers and women who seemingly remained in the home while the males went to work . Possible addictions and negative behavioural patterns This is the common thread that drew MBM and DM together and these patterns are hard to break without extensive therapy.

Janie may be viewed as harsh and Belynda as doing too much too late but we don't know what had gone on in their own lives that made them that way . But I do know by looking at their sons behavioral patterns that things weren't good for them within their marriages . So I do have some empathy for them

Jack and lilly grew up in an environment of that generational dysfunction. I do think cps / cws dropped the ball here and I do feel whatever happened to them was a direct consequence of the whole family turning a blind eye and accepting everything as normal until it wasn't and they recieved a wake up call they all will never forget . I just don't think anyone in the family was being responsible for ensuring the welfare of the children came first jmho .

I think there is a lot of guilt and embarrassment and a lot of having to take a long hard look at themselves for what they all allowed . I know they are all victims but sometimes we create the monsters that haunt us imo jmho and I hope I don't offend with my home truths on the matter

 

[MistyWaters]

While i agree with where your coming from I think BG deserves a bit of slack because I think she is riddled with guilt and she is doing now what she feels she should have done before the kids were missing . I see a woman who is absolutely heartbroken and trying to keep her head above water by being proactive .

CS on the other hand sounds like he washed his hands 3 years ago and that was that , Some men , dysfunctional ones mind you see children as an extension of the mother and once their relationship with the mother breaks down ,the children are deemed her responsibility and he carries on with his life as if he had no children in the first place . I certainly as a lone parent do not condone this I'm just saying it happens quite frequently.

When I view the children's entire family I see a lot of patterns of dysfunction. There seems to be on all sides broken marriages ,siblings from different fathers and women who seemingly remained in the home while the males went to work . Possible addictions and negative behavioural patterns This is the common thread that drew MBM and DM together and these patterns are hard to break without extensive therapy.

Janie may be viewed as harsh and Belynda as doing too much too late but we don't know what had gone on in their own lives that made them that way . But I do know by looking at their sons behavioral patterns that things weren't good for them within their marriages . So I do have some empathy for them

Jack and lilly grew up in an environment of that generational dysfunction. I do think cps / cws dropped the ball here and I do feel whatever happened to them was a direct consequence of the whole family turning a blind eye and accepting everything as normal until it wasn't and they recieved a wake up call they all will never forget . I just don't think anyone in the family was being responsible for ensuring the welfare of the children came first jmho .

I think there is a lot of guilt and embarrassment and a lot of having to take a long hard look at themselves for what they all allowed . I know they are all victims but sometimes we create the monsters that haunt us imo jmho and I hope I don't offend with my home truths on the matter

It’s just interesting to me, in the realm of theorizing possible scenarios, how the only person who stood to gain from the disappearance of Lilly and Jack, who LE received a tip about and who was also named by MBM is rarely if ever mentioned.
JMO

 

[su5ie]

It’s just interesting to me, in the realm of theorizing possible scenarios, how the only person who stood to gain from the disappearance of Lilly and Jack, who LE received a tip about and who was also named by MBM is rarely if ever mentioned.
JMO

I do think it's strange that the narrative is CS hadn't seen the children in 3 years and mbm hadn't been in touch with belynda for a period of 2 years until a sudden text in the march iirc but yet Maleyha automatically thought cody took the kids to New Brunswick .

Bit there is an awful lot that doesn't make sense in this case .

If cody stopped paying child support when he lost his job , I do wonder is this the reason for the sudden contact with BG to sus out what was going on if there was no contact between mbm and cody and payments were just made through bank accounts . Obviously LE would be able to find out if this is the way payments were made and if the disputed payment was indeed still continuing to be paid .

 

[su5ie]

I don't know if it's been said by another poster before but I just thought of something, according to documents janie believes the timeline might be wrong but how can that be if she heard them after the 9.48 am phone call with Ron

Could she be mistaken, she was by her own words dozing in her bed ?