CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

[Alice Ramnit]

Alice thanks so much for posting, it's a well laid out article abet a little repetitive but a great reference when trying to recall all the details . I like the Q&A format too .

The journalist must have read our minds or posts

Jack may not have been wearing a pull up
And lilly may have had her backpack

Interestingly it would seem the RCMP's take the 1st of May at grocery shopping as last verified sighting so I'm assuming that any account of kids been seen or heard by family members can't be verified as fact yet ?

Thats a really good observation! So there isn't any concrete proof that the kids ever returned to the house on Thursday night and the police don't consider their statements as 'factual'.

 

[MistyWaters]

Thats a really good observation! So there isn't any concrete proof that the kids ever returned to the house on Thursday night and the police don't consider their statements as 'factual'.

IIRC didn’t we learn cellphone tracking determined a precise time the family arrived back home? It was discussed here earlier. From that the RCMP would be able to determine if there were stops or lags in time along their way. If that were found, surely it would open the door to a criminal investigation?

In any investigation statements are never considered a ‘fact’ unless otherwise substantiated, if this is not the first case you’ve ever followed you probably know that.

ETA I’m unable to find a specific time mentioned but this explains the process to corroborate timelines.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/extensive-rcmp-scrutiny-of-missing-children-s-mother-stepfather-suggests-no-criminal-involvement-1.7615551

In the early weeks of the investigation, RCMP sought access to all electronic devices and data used by Brooks-Murray and her then boyfriend Daniel Martell during the period between May 1 at 2:25 p.m. and May 2 at 10:27 a.m. when police arrived.

"Location data from various sources including Global Positioning Systems, cell phone tower locations and file metadata can tell investigators the historical location of the device," said RCMP member Cpl. Charlene Curl in her written request to the court.

"Logs such as call logs, chat logs, email logs will show investigators who Malehya and Daniel were in contact with prior to Jack and Lilly going missing and verify the information they have provided to police."

 

[Alice Ramnit]

I

IIRC didn’t we learn cellphone tracking determined a precise time the family arrived back home? It was discussed here earlier. From that the RCMP would be able to determine if there were stops or lags in time along their way. If that were found, surely it would open the door to a criminal investigation?

In any investigation statements are never considered a ‘fact’ unless otherwise substantiated, if this is not the first case you’ve ever followed you probably know that.

ETA I’m unable to find a specific time mentioned but this explains the process to corroborate timelines.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/extensive-rcmp-scrutiny-of-missing-children-s-mother-stepfather-suggests-no-criminal-involvement-1.7615551

In the early weeks of the investigation, RCMP sought access to all electronic devices and data used by Brooks-Murray and her then boyfriend Daniel Martell during the period between May 1 at 2:25 p.m. and May 2 at 10:27 a.m. when police arrived.

"Location data from various sources including Global Positioning Systems, cell phone tower locations and file metadata can tell investigators the historical location of the device," said RCMP member Cpl. Charlene Curl in her written request to the court.

"Logs such as call logs, chat logs, email logs will show investigators who Malehya and Daniel were in contact with prior to Jack and Lilly going missing and verify the information they have provided to police."

I don't remember hearing any details about the cell phone pings/tracking but I may very well have missed it!

 

[Bigditch]

Just fyi Children with autism can find it very difficult to coordinate getting dressed . I still assist my 15 year old. I know jack was not diagnosed but it was suspected according to mbm and it was reported in msm as such .

You are correct in saying a pull up can slide down the legs but while a child will discard it if it does very rarely will they put another back on and while pull ups are not quite as bulky as a nappy they are still filled out enough to be a little more than training pants .

But that's neither here nor there , my point I suppose was if the pull up was only required at night why wasn't his pj's put on but the pull up it's self is not really relevant to his disappearance but what is relevant is that to go to the effort of putting it on why not get the child ready in appropriate clothing for bed .

And I suppose the crux of the matter is that we don't really have any independent evidence the kids arrived home from grocery shopping we really only have the word of 3 people whom although they are deemed to have told the truth according to the polygraph but this is really inadmissible if it came before a court of law it would not be used as evidence. And for me the timeline of the kids disappearance starts on Thursday at about 2.30 pm when they were seen on cctv

This is the only provable proof of life and with details so scant and varied , it's the finer details like why his pj's where not put on when the child would have to be bottom half stripped to put one on . But again pj's being on him would not make a difference to him going missing.

I think for me reading the testament in the documents of the Wednesday, Thursday and Friday morning raise questions as to what the adults were doing that made them so tired that two children were not provided with enough care that would be considered routine in most functional households no matter how naturally tired parents are . Parenting is tiring by nature , it's also our responsibility to ensure our children are safe and cared for and our needs come second .

I'm not critical of MBM and DM wanting a lie in but their priorities cost them two beautiful children and I hope and pray it was just a wandering

Bless you, Su5ie ♡

 

[Bigditch]

I'm confused. Wasn't it the day they did laundry at mbm's grandmother's house that they arrived home late 10 p.m. ish and the kids fell asleep in their clothes (Weds). And the next day was the trip into town to buy groceries (thurs)?

As for the pull-up, perhaps it was dry.
Imo

 

[su5ie]

I'm confused. Wasn't it the day they did laundry at mbm's grandmother's house that they arrived home late 10 p.m. ish and the kids fell asleep in their clothes (Weds). And the next day was the trip into town to buy groceries (thurs)?

As for the pull-up, perhaps it was dry.
Imo

Kids fell asleep in their clothes Thursday when they spent the afternoon and evening at home but Wednesday when they came home late pj's were put on and teeth brushed and they were put to bed

Wednesday's night time routine is in documents

Just to add if the children were in pj's from Wednesday evening through to Friday I would not bat an eyelid often if its the weekend and I'm more relaxed it would not be uncommon for us as a family to have a pyjamas weekend , watch movies and bathe on Sunday afternoon for school next day

 

[Bigditch]

Kids fell asleep in their clothes Thursday when they spent the afternoon and evening at home but Wednesday when they came home late pj's were put on and teeth brushed and they were put to bed

Wednesday's night time routine is in documents

Just to add if the children were in pj's from Wednesday evening through to Friday I would not bat an eyelid often if its the weekend and I'm more relaxed it would not be uncommon for us as a family to have a pyjamas weekend , watch movies and bathe on Sunday afternoon for school next day

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Alice Ramnit]

Kids fell asleep in their clothes Thursday when they spent the afternoon and evening at home but Wednesday when they came home late pj's were put on and teeth brushed and they were put to bed

Wednesday's night time routine is in documents

Just to add if the children were in pj's from Wednesday evening through to Friday I would not bat an eyelid often if its the weekend and I'm more relaxed it would not be uncommon for us as a family to have a pyjamas weekend , watch movies and bathe on Sunday afternoon for school next day

Wait...when did they do laundry at Patti's and come home at 10pm?

 

[Bigditch]

Wait...when did they do laundry at Patti's and come home at 10pm?

Don't ask me I'm having a confused sort of day. haha

 

[Alice Ramnit]

Don't ask me I'm having a confused sort of day. haha

Haha! It happens!! I heard Janie say it in the interview that she did...but I think that it was then edited out!

 

[MistyWaters]

Kids fell asleep in their clothes Thursday when they spent the afternoon and evening at home but Wednesday when they came home late pj's were put on and teeth brushed and they were put to bed

Wednesday's night time routine is in documents

Just to add if the children were in pj's from Wednesday evening through to Friday I would not bat an eyelid often if its the weekend and I'm more relaxed it would not be uncommon for us as a family to have a pyjamas weekend , watch movies and bathe on Sunday afternoon for school next day

So much to remember but Thursday, May 1st, was the day before the children went missing and they didn’t spend all day at home. The family went to New Glasgow in the afternoon and were spotted on video at Walmart and Dollarama.

Yes Patti’s, laundry and other errands was the day before that, on Wednesday.

 

[su5ie]

Wait...when did they do laundry at Patti's and come home at 10pm?

Wednesday

 

[su5ie]

IIRC didn’t we learn cellphone tracking determined a precise time the family arrived back home? It was discussed here earlier. From that the RCMP would be able to determine if there were stops or lags in time along their way. If that were found, surely it would open the door to a criminal investigation?

In any investigation statements are never considered a ‘fact’ unless otherwise substantiated, if this is not the first case you’ve ever followed you probably know that.

ETA I’m unable to find a specific time mentioned but this explains the process to corroborate timelines.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/extensive-rcmp-scrutiny-of-missing-children-s-mother-stepfather-suggests-no-criminal-involvement-1.7615551

In the early weeks of the investigation, RCMP sought access to all electronic devices and data used by Brooks-Murray and her then boyfriend Daniel Martell during the period between May 1 at 2:25 p.m. and May 2 at 10:27 a.m. when police arrived.

"Location data from various sources including Global Positioning Systems, cell phone tower locations and file metadata can tell investigators the historical location of the device," said RCMP member Cpl. Charlene Curl in her written request to the court.

"Logs such as call logs, chat logs, email logs will show investigators who Malehya and Daniel were in contact with prior to Jack and Lilly going missing and verify the information they have provided to police."

Yes but cellphone or vehicle trackers only stipulates the phone arrived home or the car arrived home . It doesn't give proof of life for the kids . Obviously gps may say the vehicle or phone did not stop enroute but LE can only give a proof of life from verified accounts like independent witnesses or cctv

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes but cellphone or vehicle trackers only stipulates the phone arrived home or the car arrived home . It doesn't give proof of life for the kids . Obviously gps may say the vehicle or phone did not stop enroute but LE can only give a proof of life from verified accounts like independent witnesses or cctv

A cellphone in a moving vehicle will connect with various cell towers along the route, making it possible for LE to determine if the speed was consistent throughout the journey or if there were time lags when the vehicle could’ve been stopped by analyzing and comparing the timing of each of those connections.

 

[su5ie]

A cellphone in a moving vehicle will connect with various cell towers along the route, making it possible for LE to determine if the speed was consistent throughout the journey or if there were time lags when the vehicle could’ve been stopped by analyzing and comparing the timing of each of those connections.

Yes but it would not tell if two kids passed away enroute . Highly unlikely they did I was just making note of what a vehicle or phonecell pings verify.

They only give evidence of whereabouts not what happened within a vehicle or in the case of a phone , a witness account of happenings within a vehicle unlike say a fitbit or apple watch which will give changes in heart rate etc

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes but it would not tell if two kids passed away enroute . Highly unlikely they did I was just making note of what a vehicle or phonecell pings verify.

They only give evidence of whereabouts not what happened within a vehicle or in the case of a phone , a witness account of happenings within a vehicle unlike say a fitbit or apple watch which will give changes in heart rate etc

That’s right, the route couldn’t determine if death occurred in the vehicle, just that the vehicle did not stop to hide the bodies somewhere along the way. But what would cause the death of two children simultaneously in a vehicle and why bring home the bodies if the intention was to cover up for some sort of crime?

IIRC CM claimed to have observed the children during a facetime call. Do you know when that phone call occurred, was it after the family returned from New Glasgow?

 

[MistyWaters]

Did anyone ever notice how often the time of 2:25 was mentioned in the past CBC news report? It appears as if the RCMP were investigating whether the children were handed off in New Glasgow after being sighted at the Dollarama.

2:25 pm - my emphasis

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/extensive-rcmp-scrutiny-of-missing-children-s-mother-stepfather-suggests-no-criminal-involvement-1.7615551

“In the early weeks of the investigation, RCMP sought access to all electronic devices and data used by Brooks-Murray and her then boyfriend Daniel Martell during the period between May 1 at 2:25 p.m. and May 2 at 10:27 a.m. when police arrived……

…..Later that month, RCMP requested all camera footage at the Cobequid Pass, the location of a toll plaza on the Trans-Canada Highway in northern Nova Scotia about 70 kilometres from the New Brunswick border, between May 1 at 2:25 p.m. and May 3 at 3 a.m.

The children were on video surveillance at the Dollarama in New Glasgow, a town about 20 kilometres northeast of Lansdowne Station, at 2:25 p.m. on the Thursday before their disappearance.

"This time frame will encompass the time frame between when they were last seen and when Cody Sullivan was confirmed to be in Nova Scotia. Footage from this timeline will assist investigators with independently verifying Cody Sullivan's statement to police and confirm Jack and Lilly did not leave Nova Scotia," writes Curl in her application.

It's not clear from the documents what the camera footage did or did not confirm.”

 

[su5ie]

Did anyone ever notice how often the time of 2:25 was mentioned in the past CBC news report? It appears as if the RCMP were investigating whether the children were handed off in New Glasgow after being sighted at the Dollarama.

2:25 pm - my emphasis

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/extensive-rcmp-scrutiny-of-missing-children-s-mother-stepfather-suggests-no-criminal-involvement-1.7615551

“In the early weeks of the investigation, RCMP sought access to all electronic devices and data used by Brooks-Murray and her then boyfriend Daniel Martell during the period between May 1 at 2:25 p.m. and May 2 at 10:27 a.m. when police arrived……

…..Later that month, RCMP requested all camera footage at the Cobequid Pass, the location of a toll plaza on the Trans-Canada Highway in northern Nova Scotia about 70 kilometres from the New Brunswick border, between May 1 at 2:25 p.m. and May 3 at 3 a.m.

The children were on video surveillance at the Dollarama in New Glasgow, a town about 20 kilometres northeast of Lansdowne Station, at 2:25 p.m. on the Thursday before their disappearance.

"This time frame will encompass the time frame between when they were last seen and when Cody Sullivan was confirmed to be in Nova Scotia. Footage from this timeline will assist investigators with independently verifying Cody Sullivan's statement to police and confirm Jack and Lilly did not leave Nova Scotia," writes Curl in her application.

It's not clear from the documents what the camera footage did or did not confirm.”

Yes this is why I take the timeline of the disappearance as 2.25pm on Thursday. Not because I speculate they disappeared on this date and time but because this is the only bona fide proof of life among all the other noise .

Yes cyndy claims to have seen the kids on video call on Thursday as far as i recall about 4.00pm , Janie also claims to have heard the children between 8.48 am and 9.00 am on friday morning. DM claims to have seen lilly and heard jack on friday morning. MBM claims to have put both children to bed at 10pm on Thursday night and claims to have heard her children friday morning, time unknown.

so unfortunately  claims are not facts , they are logged as statements . CCTV is fact and therefore regarded as proof of life and proof they were with family at 2.25 pm on Thursday . Imo

I just want to add through an edit that the co worker at the Dollarama didn't claim to see the children he only made a statement saying he could hear children in mbms car

 

[TMich6811]

Yes this is why I take the timeline of the disappearance as 2.25pm on Thursday. Not because I speculate they disappeared on this date and time but because this is the only bona fide proof of life among all the other noise .

Yes cyndy claims to have seen the kids on video call on Thursday as far as i recall about 4.00pm , Janie also claims to have heard the children between 8.48 am and 9.00 am on friday morning. DM claims to have seen lilly and heard jack on friday morning. MBM claims to have put both children to bed at 10pm on Thursday night and claims to have heard her children friday morning, time unknown.

so unfortunately  claims are not facts , they are logged as statements . CCTV is fact and therefore regarded as proof of life and proof they were with family at 2.25 pm on Thursday . Imo

I just want to add through an edit that the co worker at the Dollarama didn't claim to see the children he only made a statement saying he could hear children in mbms car

Do you remember how the video call occurred? Fb messenger? Or another app? I can’t remember if docs said

 

[su5ie]

Do you remember how the video call occurred? Fb messenger? Or another app? I can’t remember if docs said

I would have to check docs later can't remember off hand if the method or app is given

It is possible it was the text+ app or do Canadians have WhatsApp?