CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #7

[Twistinginthewind]

Yeah time hasn't really revealed anything more than what was known on the 2nd of May.

I feel in a time warp were the facts are swirling around in my head and fighting commonsense with respect for victims is getting harder by the day.

I know things can be missed, I know people have been found within a search area sometimes in areas throughly searched multiple times years later but the technology is getting better and the fact heat sensing choppers went up fairly swiftly and thermal cameras were used it just doesn't make sense unless they went into cold running water almost immediately.

I'm asking an honest question that for so long I've refrained from asking because I don't want to come across as victim blaming or bashing . Could a person be charged with negligence for not supervising young children adequately enough that indirectly you placed them in danger and that danger cost them their lives ?

It's troubling to me as well, and becomes more so every day that goes by, and nothing, just nothing, turning up pointing at anything.

Regarding your question, IIRC, it has been discussed in essentially the same frame and same way on this thread, in maybe the first 6 to 8 weeks or so after Lilly and Jack disappeared, and basically, if there is no evidence of minor children's lives being put in danger and costing them their lives, then no charges can be brought.

However, we don't know what CPS knows and has documented in terms of Lilly and Jack's home environment in the months leading up to their disappearance.

JMO

 

[musicaljoke]

Would property owners necessarily need to conduct a specific search of their land? I don't know the area, but my impression is that the parcels of land aren't huge, so it seems fairly likely to me that most of the owners will have covered their whole property at some point in the last six months, just in the course of their regular activities

The woods was off limits because of fire risks for a good part of the past six months. There was a $10,000 fine for going into the woods which only ended in September.

 

[MistyWaters]

<snipped to reply>

I'm asking an honest question that for so long I've refrained from asking because I don't want to come across as victim blaming or bashing . Could a person be charged with negligence for not supervising young children adequately enough that indirectly you placed them in danger and that danger cost them their lives ?

In Canada, given the circumstances as we know them to be, I’d say it won’t happen however I’m not a legal expert. But why I think that is because the justice system in this country is not based on punishment, it’s based on rehabilitation with the expectation for criminals to become productive citizens when they’re put back on the street (ha!). Thats one of the reasons sentences are nothing like in the US.

Not supervising children adequately would probably fall into an accidental death category, and lacks a ‘wreckless disregard’. Even if charges were laid, there’s plenty of room for reasonable doubt due to inability to predict the children would leave the yard.
JMO

 

[su5ie]

Where does it go from here ..... file resting in a cabinet drawer until new evidence comes to light if it ever does .? People getting on with their lives? Lilly and jack two lost kids forever taken by the elements or whatever? Private property remaining unsearchable? Neighbours holding others with suspicion? No evidence and no clue ? Useless witness statements probably made out of spite ? Seemingly a family who is done being polite and obliging ? Are the kids in the area or are they not ? Where does the investigation go from there ? Is it an open and shut case ? ,wandering , death by misadventure? Will a death certificate be now issued ? People have to move on don't they ??
Will we hear more about that memo or the cps involvement?

Two beautiful children lost and no trace ,where did they go , why did they go and who will be their voice ,will it be the wind ,will nature give up their tiny bodies or will it conceal them in a deathly embrace , did mother nature decide they would be forever her children warmed only by the earthly roots of the plants and trees , crowns of flowers , and clothes of grass two angels belonging to the forest

 

[su5ie]

In Canada, given the circumstances as we know them to be, I’d say it won’t happen however I’m not a legal expert. But why I think that is because the justice system in this country is not based on punishment, it’s based on rehabilitation with the expectation for criminals to become productive citizens when they’re put back on the street (ha!). Thats one of the reasons sentences are nothing like in the US.

Not supervising children adequately would probably fall into an accidental death category, and lacks a ‘wreckless disregard’. Even if charges were laid, there’s plenty of room for reasonable doubt due to inability to predict the children would leave the yard.
JMO

Thank you

 

[Serononin]

Good lord, why on earth is she supposed to feel guilty? It was her son who chose to cut ties with his own children, not her. This put her relationship with her grandchildren in a very precarious place. She had visits with the kids at the pleasure of MBM. She didn’t purposely cut ties herself when MBM and DM got together. Ex mother-in-laws can’t just demand visits. It’s very easy from the perch of not being in her shoes to say what she coulda should woulda. Let’s try and be a little kinder, as Amy says, give her a little grace, as a gramma who has lost her grandchildren and, as such, is a victim here.
IMHO

All of this is true, but that doesn't mean she doesn't feel guilt or regret over not seeing them for so long. It's unfortunately a very human experience to feel guilty about things that we didn't really have control over

 

[Serononin]

Where does it go from here ..... file resting in a cabinet drawer until new evidence comes to light if it ever does .? People getting on with their lives? Lilly and jack two lost kids forever taken by the elements or whatever? Private property remaining unsearchable? Neighbours holding others with suspicion? No evidence and no clue ? Useless witness statements probably made out of spite ? Seemingly a family who is done being polite and obliging ? Are the kids in the area or are they not ? Where does the investigation go from there ? Is it an open and shut case ? ,wandering , death by misadventure? Will a death certificate be now issued ? People have to move on don't they ??
Will we hear more about that memo or the cps involvement?

Two beautiful children lost and no trace ,where did they go , why did they go and who will be their voice ,will it be the wind ,will nature give up their tiny bodies or will it conceal them in a deathly embrace , did mother nature decide they would be forever her children warmed only by the earthly roots of the plants and trees , crowns of flowers , and clothes of grass two angels belonging to the forest

There's usually a waiting period of a few years before a death certificate can be issued for a person whose remains haven't been found, although I'm not sure what the exact process is in Canada

 

[musicaljoke]

Yeah time hasn't really revealed anything more than what was known on the 2nd of May.

I feel in a time warp were the facts are swirling around in my head and fighting commonsense with respect for victims is getting harder by the day.

I know things can be missed, I know people have been found within a search area sometimes in areas throughly searched multiple times years later but the technology is getting better and the fact heat sensing choppers went up fairly swiftly and thermal cameras were used it just doesn't make sense unless they went into cold running water almost immediately.

I'm asking an honest question that for so long I've refrained from asking because I don't want to come across as victim blaming or bashing . Could a person be charged with negligence for not supervising young children adequately enough that indirectly you placed them in danger and that danger cost them their lives ?

If the children had been dropped off at the city park while the parents went pub crawling, then yes, likely there would be criminal charges for neglecting the care of their children. But there were no deliberate actions by these parents that would suggest such reckless intentions.

 

[OneLove]

Neighbors routinely dressed their kids for bed in what they'd wear to school the next day. The dress code at the kids' private school made it easy: navy sweat pants and a white jersey polo were comfortable for sleeping. It made mornings so much easier on everyone.

For families where everyone has to be out the door early, putting kids to bed in the clothes they'll where the next day may be a necessity. (Snip) Most young children wear soft, flexible clothing that would be comfortable to sleep in.

This is a very valid point. It seems the likely difference between your neighbors and Jack and Lilly, though, are that your neighbkrs most likely p×ut their kids to bed in *clean* clothes, comfortable to sleep in AND ready for the next day.

Jack and Lilly, we are told, went to bed in clothes they'd worn at least all day that day at a minimum, shopping in town, playing out in the yard, and likely playing on a not so clean floor.

If that was routine, resulting from a state of overwhelm, it might be the reason why the school reported them sent to school inappropriately dressed and that they had to be provided clothing by the school. Maybe the kids fell asleep in their dirty all-day clothes, fed themselves, and got themselves to the school bus as a matter of routine? We really dont know for aure; all we have is Malehya's word on what their morning habits were. And "say so" is not evidence. We also saw in the docs that the kids were reported to have behavioral issues on the bus which may have stemmed from their home situation. There was to be more investigation by child pritective services but that can't happen now.

Psst: I have slept in clean sweatpants and sweatshirt myself a time or two when I needed to jet out very early in the morning. No problem with that cancept× at all!

 

[su5ie]

So according to documentation mbm called her mum CM at 8.28am on Friday morning.

 

[LookingForClues]

I don't remember anyone mentioning that 8:28 AM call. So MBM was awake and wanted to talk to her mom about "something."

 

[dotr]

Nov 16 2025 rbbm

https://lethbridgenewsnow.com/2025/11/16/a-search-for-the-missing-sullivan-children-turned-up-items-not-deemed-relevant-rcmp/

''Oldrieve says the searchers split into groups of six, and kept meticulous records of where they looked and co-ordinates of any items they found. He is compiling all the records to deliver to the RCMP.

In an email, the RCMP say they extend “sincere thanks to Please Bring Me Home volunteers for their support with the search efforts.”

''Oldrieve says he was particularly impressed by the previous searches. He says that based on the number of tags and ribbons marking the area, he is increasingly skeptical that the children wandered into the woods. “I can’t think of where they could have been missed,” he says. Instead, he says he finds the most logical explanation that the children fell in the water.''

 

[su5ie]

Nov 16 2025 rbbm

https://lethbridgenewsnow.com/2025/11/16/a-search-for-the-missing-sullivan-children-turned-up-items-not-deemed-relevant-rcmp/

''Oldrieve says the searchers split into groups of six, and kept meticulous records of where they looked and co-ordinates of any items they found. He is compiling all the records to deliver to the RCMP.

In an email, the RCMP say they extend “sincere thanks to Please Bring Me Home volunteers for their support with the search efforts.”

''Oldrieve says he was particularly impressed by the previous searches. He says that based on the number of tags and ribbons marking the area, he is increasingly skeptical that the children wandered into the woods. “I can’t think of where they could have been missed,” he says. Instead, he says he finds the most logical explanation that the children fell in the water.''

I think this is the most logical explanation too if they wandered.

The search was underway from DM and Sars too quickly for them not to be found if they got lost in the forest areas

 

[MistyWaters]

I think this is the most logical explanation too if they wandered.

The search was underway from DM and Sars too quickly for them not to be found if they got lost in the forest areas

I don’t know. Just because we only learned of a river in the area of the Martell home we can’t assume nobody else realized it during the RCMP searches. The reason it was said SAR arrived onsite quickly was because they were returning from Eden Lake where a kayaker had fallen into the water. That suggests the earliest responders were familiar with water searches. Considering many lost children are found drowned I’d be surprised if that wasn’t a strong focus during the search right from the very beginning. Drones are invaluable for searching for drowning victims in smaller rivers and streams.

I’m back to not thinking of any one possibility is better than another, while awaiting for the RCMP to update the public at some point in time.
JMO

 

[Slebby]

I think this is the most logical explanation too if they wandered.

The search was underway from DM and Sars too quickly for them not to be found if they got lost in the forest areas

I could see it if only one child went missing. I have a hard time seeing 2 kids falling into the water. And with the number of searches done over time, it’s odd to me that they weren’t found, as the bodies would have likely floated to the surface.
The fact that it’s 2 kids missing is where so many theories fall down for me. A wild animal might kill one but not two. A stranger abduction (other than a parental abduction in, say, a custody case) is unlikely to grab 2. If lost in the woods, it’s hard for me to see the likelihood of there being no trace of either children found. Even for 2 to be hit by a car is a stretch but I believe it after I nearly hit my own 2 dogs driving around a blind curve in my rural driveway.
IMHO

 

[Gemmie]

I could see it if only one child went missing. I have a hard time seeing 2 kids falling into the water.

SBMFF

I agree, 2 kids both falling into water is pretty low odds. However, 1 kid falling in is higher, and their sibling going in to rescue them isn't hard for me to imagine. JMO

 

[Slebby]

SBMFF

I agree, 2 kids both falling into water is pretty low odds. However, 1 kid falling in is higher, and their sibling going in to rescue them isn't hard for me to imagine. JMO

I thought of that as a possibility. However, I don’t picture a 4 or 6 year old as brave and selfless enough to jump in and rescue the other. Adding the undiagnosed autism in both children, it seems unlikely to me, imo.

 

[su5ie]

What is everyone's theory
Have the remains been missed?
Even with the search being the biggest in history of nova scotia

2 kids imo double the chance of finding something??

Let's say they wandered into the woods ,it seems to be the definitive theory of the rcmp , terrain is a mess , difficult for the majority of experienced searchers . We are told it was searched throughly and not one aspect was missed .

The hypothesis is that divers searched every waterway and covered so much ground . No body had surfaced between the first search and the second . We have experts stating that its highly unlikely they are in the woods so what is the next step ? Someone bundled two wandering children into a car further afield? Out of view of cameras ?


Now that we can see mbm phoned her mum at 8.28 am . Was she sleeping the whole time as Daniel first stated ? We can only speculate she may not have actually fallen back to sleep until after this time as its stated she emailed the school at 6.20am or thereabouts , fed meadow ,got meadow back to sleep . May have scrolled her phone , heard the kids and then didn't at a point . So what point did she not hear the kids and what point did she sleep the whole time ?

 

[Sarahlou]

I don't think they went missing at the time stated. I think they are far away, definitely not in the woods (unless buried there)

 

[Gemmie]

I thought of that as a possibility. However, I don’t picture a 4 or 6 year old as brave and selfless enough to jump in and rescue the other. Adding the undiagnosed autism in both children, it seems unlikely to me, imo.

I don't look at the action as being brave or selfless. I view it as reacting, plain and simple. The consequences aren't even thought about. Nothing is, IMO, when someone simply reacts.