NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #10 *Arrest*

[Chimera]

A fairly deep dive from the WSJ here:

It was business as usual for LM's parents in the days prior to his arrest. His mom lunched with friends near Baltimore's waterfront on Saturday, and the next afternoon she and his father attended a ceremony for one of her brothers. Less than a day later they received the news that he had been arrested.

Very big close family, and all of the father's siblings work in the family business (nursing home chain and golf clubs).

His parents live fairly modestly considering their wealth (house is 2 million). "You would not know they have money, they never flaunt anything," said one acquaintance.

Indications he had been distancing himself from his family for at least a year. They searched for him for 6-8 months, to no avail. One person interviewed said his mom would have moved mountains to find him.

LM didn't have United Health, nor did his mother (like that fake manifesto had claimed).

https://www.wsj.com/us-news/luigi-mangione-family-baltimore-a47ac28e

Bbm.
6-8 months.
My goodness.
That is a long time to go incognito from one's own immediate family.
I wonder if if they even recognize what he's become -- compared to the Luigi they knew ?
And it looks from all information out there, incl. the second bolded -- that he was loved.
Sad.
Omo.

 

[browneyes]

^snipped

From the article:
“Asked if he was in contact with family, Mangione said "until recently."”


I read it as yes, he had been in contact with his family “until recently”, so that currently he has not been.

Am I interpreting it incorrectly?

One thing, the word “recently” is vague, not being a specific length of time. We heard he seemed to go silent to family and friends since July of this year. Is that recent to Luigi’s thinking?

Moo

IMO, vague is his normal response “recently “.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Manifesto?
What I find missing from his “writings” is any understanding about what he sees as the issue.
Healthcare is a big general word. Is his issue with doctors? Hospitals? Costs of lab tests or prescription drugs? Insurance vs insurance coverage? Types of insurance. All of it?

Does he want National Health? He probably wouldn’t like that either - as it’s not “on demand”.

His life expectancy issue is not explored (USA very close to UK with national healthcare - obvious that cost or insurance not a factor)

Is his issue - CEO pay? Bean counters? Shareholders? Profits from healthcare

Or does he want to kill executives?

IMO … he has not researched “insurance” and “healthcare” and made any coherent argument, he has not drawn any meaningful conclusions for his “audience”. It’s not a manifesto, it’s some thoughts which he thinks are grandiose and original and punctuated with murder.

IMO … LM suffering disordered thoughts, paranoia and obsessional thoughts about BT. Not a visionary. Not a leader. He has become a cold murderer who shot his victim in the back … a coward. His murder changes nothing. He is a failure.

 

[Friday Fan]

I think it's unfortunate that there's a bit of misinformation on this thread which might be clouding the issue or not helping in our understanding of it.

"After he had surgery, he claimed that he was fully recovered in 8 days (not believable)" - I believe he claimed that he was pain-free, which is subjective and probably due to taking medication post-operatively any pain may have been masked, which is relatively common. 10ofRods wrote a helpful post about how directly after surgery there may be a large reduction in pain which may or may not be representative of the real situation long-term.

We haven't seen anything to state that he was in pain following the surgery, that pain was a motivation for him or anything of the like. <modsnip> We don't know if he was in pain or not at the point of the shooting. We don't know if surgery completely fixed the issue or not. We have no idea.

As far as someone taking a beginner surfing lesson and then having a problem, I don't think that's necessarily foreseeable. With a lot of conditions you're encouraged to stay active (e.g. with this one too, for example, keep attempting to do hills and strengthen the core and other parts of the body). It is incredibly hard to be a young, active person surrounded by friends who are able to do things you love and to sit out from them.

"he continued to participate in sports that ultimately led to a physical disability" - the problem is that anything could have set that off - like stepping on a piece of paper. It appears that his problem wasn't anywhere near as severe prior to the surfing incident (he mainly describes it as a bad ache) so he may well have thought it was fine to do that.

<modsnip> The assumption that someone is fine because they don't grimace, the assumption that someone is fine or pain-free because they're walking down the street. It just doesn't work like that. At all. We don't even know if this individual was even in pain in the footage we've seen yet there are so many comments about it and how he shouldn't be able to do this or that.

"I am still not buying the X-RAY Photo is the true “BACK story” to this situation.
But hey, “Poor Poor Luigi’s Back”
I call BS and I bet he loved the attention he got in person and online with his pity stories."
- Anyone who has screws in their back like that and the image seen on the x-ray which fits in with the story described so presumably is of his body, is likely to have experienced some pain. I don't get that vibe from the comments at all if we're talking about his indepth Reddit posts that discuss it. Again, it's comments like these that affect people greatly who are suffering with chronic pain and may mean they never speak out about it.

What he did was atrocious - you don't shoot someone because you disagree with them - but I think it's really important to try to understand why this happened and to keep things as accurate as possible. As far as I've seen his manifesto, if that's even accurate, doesn't mention pain as a motivation. In fact I haven't seen anything that mentions it in relation to the shooting.

You can feel empathy for a young man dealing with all of this (being laid off and then dealing with a spinal injury at that point - I don't know many people who wouldn't feel empathy for someone in that situation) AND have empathy for Brian Thompson and know what was done was completely wrong. It's not one or the other. <modsnip> Thanks for reading.

He did not even claim to be "pain-free". He simply recommended the surgery and the result after one week, had been better than expected. At least that is my interpretation

Unless you've had these types of surgeries, you really can't judge what a brief statement at one week post-op means. These surgeries are extremely traumatic. For example, if he read that you "won't be able to wipe your butt" (I was not able to) and he was able to wipe his butt, then his outcome at one week was better than he anticipated.

CEO shooting suspect left winding trail of Reddit posts about health issues

Snippets of discussions on popular message board Reddit offer a glimpse into the life of Luigi Mangione's health battles.

www.usatoday.com

.

 

[krikken]

It wouldn't surprise me all that much. I always thought the photos LE released looked like different people. I even thought one looked very feminine. Now, when I look at the additional images and the ones from his former life, I still think I'd have a hard time recognizing him because he looks different from different angles.

I'd like to see the other frames from the hostel footage, not just the two stills, and I'd like to see as many half-profile photos of LM smiling.

As well as any other moving images/multiple frames besides the ones released from 6th Av.

 

[Agatha3]

A fairly deep dive from the WSJ here:

It was business as usual for LM's parents in the days prior to his arrest. His mom lunched with friends near Baltimore's waterfront on Saturday, and the next afternoon she and his father attended a ceremony for one of her brothers. Less than a day later they received the news that he had been arrested.

Very big close family, and all of the father's siblings work in the family business (nursing home chain and golf clubs).

His parents live fairly modestly considering their wealth (house is 2 million). "You would not know they have money, they never flaunt anything," said one acquaintance.

Indications he had been distancing himself from his family for at least a year. They searched for him for 6-8 months, to no avail. One person interviewed said his mom would have moved mountains to find him.

LM didn't have United Health, nor did his mother (like that fake manifesto had claimed).

https://www.wsj.com/us-news/luigi-mangione-family-baltimore-a47ac28e

Could he have been using a family bank card which raised their suspicions about where he was?

 

[branmuffin]

Top ten companies by market cap - UHC is not on the list (and hasn't been for the past 5+ years). Neither is Walmart. LM's information is old and probably comes from books he read (that are 10+ years old).

Hmmm, that's weird because I've just read that UHC is in the top five companies in the world by revenue. The market gap may have been a misnomer.

10 Biggest Companies in the World

With Walmart leading the pack, these are the 10 biggest companies in the world as measured by 12-month trailing revenue.

www.investopedia.com

 

[sfinkz]

I would hesitate to label his found scribblings as a ‘manifesto’. IMO, it was not written during his cold, calculating ‘hunter’ phase, when he was very clear in his active, brilliant, troubled mind of intent.
Rather, it may have been desperately penned after pulling the trigger during his ‘hunted’ phase, when he was quickly and finally broken. We all know Luigi did not make the smoothest transition in this regard.
Maybe written while staring out the bus window in WestPA, destination unknown. Or, during his last night of freedom, after getting turned away from the cheapest two-star hotel in town, sweating out a freezing night in the rough, awaiting the doors of McD’s to open as he knew the walls were closing in.
It may be a manifesto does emerge, befitting his eloquence, as we only have what was carried on his person at arrest. If not, however, and this is IT, would be indicative of a lack of commitment to a larger cause IMO.

 

[NottaYutz]

30:11 His Attorney states his client is able to make “knowing decisions”

Could you post a direct link to this? I am unable to access it.

 

[Justice101]

Just speculation, but did he use up all his savings... then run up all of his credit cards.. in all his travels... before realizing his family would probably not bail him out so he had nothing to lose.

 

[sds71]

Attorney David B. Irwin, who has been advising the Mangione family following Luigi's arrest, tells TMZ ... the suspected shooter's loved ones are in the dark about the case -- saying they don't "know all the facts."

In fact, the attorney tells us the family only knows what they "read in the papers" ... making it clear they aren't involved in Luigi's legal woes.

They did have a short, albeit sweet, message for Luigi ... who the attorney says the family "loves."

He adds ... "We wish him the best."

Luigi Mangione's Family Attorney Says They're in The Dark, 'Wish Him the Best'

Luigi Mangione's family appears to be distancing themselves from the Brian Thompson murder investigation ... in which the Ivy League graduate is the main suspect.

www.tmz.com

 

[branmuffin]

It wouldn't surprise me all that much. I always thought the photos LE released looked like different people. I even thought one looked very feminine. Now, when I look at the additional images and the ones from his former life, I still think I'd have a hard time recognizing him because he looks different from different angles.

The image of him smiling in the hostel I would have sworn he had dark blonde hair. May have just being the lighting.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This post lands at random.

Websleuths is a true crime discussion forum, and as such it is not an easy place for everyone to be. Somewhere in these almost 20 million posts, there will be comments that are triggering for others. For example, we have murder cases where family members may be reading excruciating information about their murdered loved one. It is simply not realistic for us to be able to tailor each discussion to accommodate or address the various sensitivities of thousands of members.

Please discuss the facts of a case without virtue signalling or chastising other members for their comments or opinions. If we deleted or edited every post in every one of the thousands of threads and cases because it might trigger someone, we would need a staff of hundreds +/-

We understand that everybody has different life experiences and different levels of sensitivity, but if a member finds certain topics triggering, perhaps they should not be in that particular discussion.

Thank you for your understanding.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

 

[10ofRods]

I agree with you so much. I am skeptical of these crumbs of info LM left behind while planning a murder. He wasn’t fully open to anyone in his life recently or perhaps for years. Most of his ramblings are from an Internet forum or a semi friend who he ghosted. JMO

You put your finger on the very details that keep bugging me.

Apparently, he was still working remotely for TrueCar right up until he was arrested or went on the lam ( TrueCar - Wikipedia - the article cites his mother as the source).

So, he's a remote worker, doesn't see colleagues on the daily. His actual address at the time he started making his way toward NYC is unknown or obscure. He has ghosted the friend group and that one good friend in Honolulu. His parents don't know where he is and do not have contact with him. He travels overseas (and appears to have met up with a group of Japanese friends or internet acquaintances - somehow he comes into contact with the men pictured in that one photo from Japan - but obviously, this is not a close friend group).

I am now wondering if he was engaged in low level criminal/antisocial acts along the way. Did he play up his back issue to get lower rent or even a place on someone's couch? I am also wondering how much he was paid by TrueCar and what exactly he did for them. If he can work remotely for them, then he can travel and work at the same time (lots of people his age are trying to do that). But why the radio silence with his own family?

And somehow, during all of this, he plans a murder. If he had a brokerage account and a watchlist, he would have gotten notification about all manner of of stockholder/investor events - not just UHG. His "manifesto" is written in a typical undergraduate way (IMO) and is very similar to his book reviews (thought-out, but hardly strong persuasive writing; it's more like personal blogging).

So is he almost completely inside his own mind at all times? Where are his computers/his home base? Where did he (or someone else) print out the gun? Was he mainly occupied with erasing/diluting his internet footprint (so he could become an anarchist assassin?) Such an odd mixture of organized, high functioning and really odd self-defeating behavior (keeping the gun was a bad idea, unless he was either so narcissistic he thought he was impossible to catch OR he intended to use it again).

IMO.

 

[tlcya]

^snipped

From the article:
“Asked if he was in contact with family, Mangione said "until recently."”


I read it as yes, he had been in contact with his family “until recently”, so that currently he has not been.

Am I interpreting it incorrectly?

One thing, the word “recently” is vague, not being a specific length of time. We heard he seemed to go silent to family and friends since July of this year. Is that recent to Luigi’s thinking?

Moo

The San Francisco Chronicle reported that Luigi Mangione's mother told police that her son hadn't been heard from since July, citing an unnamed police source.
Who is Luigi Mangione's mother? Kathleen Mangione reported son missing

over the next several months friends and family were unable to reach him. Many reaching out via social media to mention concern over this.

The San Francisco Chronicle reported that Luigi Mangione's mother told police that her son hadn't been heard from since July, citing an unnamed police source.
Who is Luigi Mangione's mother? Kathleen Mangione reported son missing

Two sources who spoke on condition of anonymity as they aren't authorized to discuss the matter publicly claimed that a San Francisco Police Department Special Victims Unit officer recognized Mangione as potentially being the shooting suspect on December 5, one day after the incident took place, based on the surveillance images showing his face. The officer was reportedly familiar with Mangione as he'd been reported missing to San Francisco police in mid-November and the Special Victims Unit, which was assigned to the missing person's case, reported his identity to the FBI on December 5.
Luigi Mangione ID'd By Other Police Department Days Before Arrest: Report | 107.1 KISS FM

The New York Times reported, “Mangione was in regular contact with friends and family until about six months ago when he suddenly and inexplicably stopped communicating with them. He had been suffering from a painful back injury, friends said, and then went dark.”
https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area...ly-reported-missing-in-san-francisco-reports/

 

[Sunshynn]

I also think it is notable that the two central characters in this story hardly meet the stereotypes held out for them: the CEO is from a working class family, with a reputation of being open, non-hierarchical, and welcoming. The accused is from a family of wealth, Ivy educated and well traveled.

This has been what has stood out for me, as well.
IMO, LM is not the folk hero that people have made him out to be. And, BT, is not the monster that people have made him out to be.

 

[BrianJohnson]

You put your finger on the very details that keep bugging me.

Apparently, he was still working remotely for TrueCar right up until he was arrested or went on the lam ( TrueCar - Wikipedia - the article cites his mother as the source).

So, he's a remote worker, doesn't see colleagues on the daily. His actual address at the time he started making his way toward NYC is unknown or obscure. He has ghosted the friend group and that one good friend in Honolulu. His parents don't know where he is and do not have contact with him. He travels overseas (and appears to have met up with a group of Japanese friends or internet acquaintances - somehow he comes into contact with the men pictured in that one photo from Japan - but obviously, this is not a close friend group).

I am now wondering if he was engaged in low level criminal/antisocial acts along the way. Did he play up his back issue to get lower rent or even a place on someone's couch? I am also wondering how much he was paid by TrueCar and what exactly he did for them. If he can work remotely for them, then he can travel and work at the same time (lots of people his age are trying to do that). But why the radio silence with his own family?

And somehow, during all of this, he plans a murder. If he had a brokerage account and a watchlist, he would have gotten notification about all manner of of stockholder/investor events - not just UHG. His "manifesto" is written in a typical undergraduate way (IMO) and is very similar to his book reviews (thought-out, but hardly strong persuasive writing; it's more like personal blogging).

So is he almost completely inside his own mind at all times? Where are his computers/his home base? Where did he (or someone else) print out the gun? Was he mainly occupied with erasing/diluting his internet footprint (so he could become an anarchist assassin?) Such an odd mixture of organized, high functioning and really odd self-defeating behavior (keeping the gun was a bad idea, unless he was either so narcissistic he thought he was impossible to catch OR he intended to use it again).

IMO.

He kept his fake ID card, and gun, I think he wanted to get caught/become a cult hero

I don’t think he was working alone though,he was on the phone to someone minutes before BT got shot. Who? bit early to be phoning a friend for a casual chat, I think he had a lookout

 

[MassGuy]

You put your finger on the very details that keep bugging me.

Apparently, he was still working remotely for TrueCar right up until he was arrested or went on the lam ( TrueCar - Wikipedia - the article cites his mother as the source).

So, he's a remote worker, doesn't see colleagues on the daily. His actual address at the time he started making his way toward NYC is unknown or obscure. He has ghosted the friend group and that one good friend in Honolulu. His parents don't know where he is and do not have contact with him. He travels overseas (and appears to have met up with a group of Japanese friends or internet acquaintances - somehow he comes into contact with the men pictured in that one photo from Japan - but obviously, this is not a close friend group).

I am now wondering if he was engaged in low level criminal/antisocial acts along the way. Did he play up his back issue to get lower rent or even a place on someone's couch? I am also wondering how much he was paid by TrueCar and what exactly he did for them. If he can work remotely for them, then he can travel and work at the same time (lots of people his age are trying to do that). But why the radio silence with his own family?

And somehow, during all of this, he plans a murder. If he had a brokerage account and a watchlist, he would have gotten notification about all manner of of stockholder/investor events - not just UHG. His "manifesto" is written in a typical undergraduate way (IMO) and is very similar to his book reviews (thought-out, but hardly strong persuasive writing; it's more like personal blogging).

So is he almost completely inside his own mind at all times? Where are his computers/his home base? Where did he (or someone else) print out the gun? Was he mainly occupied with erasing/diluting his internet footprint (so he could become an anarchist assassin?) Such an odd mixture of organized, high functioning and really odd self-defeating behavior (keeping the gun was a bad idea, unless he was either so narcissistic he thought he was impossible to catch OR he intended to use it again).

IMO.

He hasn’t worked for TrueCar since 2023, and I think that’s the last job we know about.

He more recently worked at the car-buying website TrueCar, but has not worked there since 2023, the head of the Santa Monica, California-based company confirmed to the AP.

Luigi Mangione's hard turn from wealth and success to murder suspect

Luigi Nicholas Mangione was apparently living a charmed life: the grandson of a wealthy real estate developer, valedictorian of his elite Baltimore prep school and with degrees from one of the nation’s top private universities.

apnews.com

 

[Joe Friday]

Any chance LM had issue with insurance companies like UHC denying coverage for nursing home residence in which his family owned?

Perhaps LM is sympathetic to those residence and the care they are being denied due to the insurance companies refusing to pay.

Although it doesn't seem LM had any part in the working of his families business.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

He kept his fake ID card, and gun, I think he wanted to get caught/become a cult hero

I don’t think he was working alone though,he was on the phone to someone minutes before BT got shot. Who? bit early to be phoning a friend for a casual chat, I think he had a lookout

He said in his manifesto that he didn’t have a lookout (no help). He mentioned “elementary social engineering,” which implies he obtained that information from some unwitting person who was privy to details.

These guys invariably work alone (as their motive is personal), and the phone was probably an effort to blend in.

If he had help they’d know. They would have traced BT’s movements on surveillance footage, and it would be clear if he was being followed.

Help just fits in absolutely no way.