NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #10 *Arrest*

[NuttMegg]

You know what, I'm not sure that I actually believe poll companies. The fact that 77% of any demographic consider shooting someone in the back is anything other than completely unacceptable makes my mind boggle. That simply cannot be true. It just can't.

Maybe had the question included "shot in the back", "father of 2 kids", etec, the outcome would have been different. Imo the outfit has a good reputation, and chose the most succinct question, was the murder acceptable. Once they start including things unrelated to what they wanted to learn, then it clouds the outcome, with several qualifiers, how can they narrow down the basic question. Anyway they did goof in design, imo, by leaving that huge neutral category so vague. They should have let ppl choose "haven't heard about it" to distinguish from implied "neutral on the morality" of it.

Jmo, pls don't shoot the messenger, I am not saying whether shooting someone to death in the back is worse than doing it from the front. The person is dead. That's a question for the jury.

They wanted to know if the murder was acceptable, then to illuminate attitudes amongst age groups.

 

[legalese]

The federal charges are probably there to pressure him to plead guilty on state 1st degree murder

“Plead guilty to 1st and we might let you out after 40 years, take it to trial good chance you will fry in the electric chair”

That’s problematic, too, if it is the case. The federal and state criminal justice process shouldn’t be weaponized to force someone into pleading guilty generally, including this case. If NY wants him convicted of first degree murder, it’s their job to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[Marantz4250b]

If BT were not the CEO of a major healthcare company, there would not be first degree murder or terrorism charges imo. BT, unfortunately, is not the only victim of gun violence in NYC, but it is not common to see first degree murder, terrorism, and possible federal charges filed against the defendant.

That doesn't mean that CEOs are treated differently! If he were an Islamic terrorist shooting shooting scantily clad women because they had the temerity to dance and drink alcohol in a nightclub he'd still be charged with terrorism offences.

If you choose your victim because you are trying to bring about societal change through violence then that's terrorism. The fact that his victim was very highly paid and powerful is beside the point.

 

[sds71]

Luigi Mangione has waived extradition and will be taken to New York City today.

Luigi Mangione, the suspect in the killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, has formally waived extradition. He will not be returning to the prison where he’s been held in Pennsylvania and he is expected to immediately be taken to New York.

Mangione did not speak except for yes or no answers when directly addressed by the judge. When the judge asked whether he wished to waive extradition, Mangione’s Pennsylvania lawyer Thomas Dickey turned to Mangione and asked, “That’s what you want to do?” Mangione replied, “Yes.”

Dickey said he had conferred with Mangione’s legal counsel in New York and was confident that a waiver of extradition won’t jeopardize his defense.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/the-latest-on-the-unitedhealthcare-ceo-killing-suspect-12-19-24/index.html

 

[BrianJohnson]

That’s problematic, too, if it is the case. The federal and state criminal justice process shouldn’t be weaponized to force someone into pleading guilty generally, including this case. If NY wants him convicted of first degree murder, it’s their job to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

He is 100% guilty, the evidence they have is an absolute slam dunk in terms of the fact he shot and killed BT, the danger exists though that the jury will get an LM supporter on it. I think encouraging him to plead guilty even using the threat of federal death penalty charges to make that happen would be a good thing.

In the UK the judge accepts 10 out of 12 jurors agreeing a guilty verdict, in NYS it is all 12, much more risk of a LM fanboy/girl

 

[detective.moon]

“The state case will proceed in parallel with any federal case,” said Danielle Filson, a spokeswoman for the Manhattan district attorney’s office.

Suspect in Insurance C.E.O.’s Murder Is Said to Face Federal Charges

The nature of the potential charges against Luigi Mangione was unclear, but they could allow federal prosecutors to seek the death penalty.

www.nytimes.com

i wonder how this will work exactly!

am i correct in thinking death penalty would be an unlikely outcome? and if LM gets the death penalty, i’m guessing that would happen in a different state?

 

[citygirl]

Luigi Mangione has waived extradition and will be taken to New York City today.

Luigi Mangione, the suspect in the killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, has formally waived extradition. He will not be returning to the prison where he’s been held in Pennsylvania and he is expected to immediately be taken to New York.

Mangione did not speak except for yes or no answers when directly addressed by the judge. When the judge asked whether he wished to waive extradition, Mangione’s Pennsylvania lawyer Thomas Dickey turned to Mangione and asked, “That’s what you want to do?” Mangione replied, “Yes.”

Dickey said he had conferred with Mangione’s legal counsel in New York and was confident that a waiver of extradition won’t jeopardize his defense.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/the-latest-on-the-unitedhealthcare-ceo-killing-suspect-12-19-24/index.html

He looks a lot better.

 

[Friday Fan]

\

Maybe LM retained some of his grandfather's righteous anger, maybe Luigi saw BT as the quintessential wasp? speculation, imo.

White Anglo-Saxon Protestants - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Behavior of Luigi Mangione's tycoon grandpa accused of Mafia ties

Nicholas Mangione Sr lived the rags to riches dream after he and his brother were forced to become breadwinners for their immigrant family at the age of 11.

www.dailymail.co.uk

''The grandfather of suspected UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson killer Luigi Mangione has been branded a bully businessman who did not deny having Mafia ties.''

'According to The New York Times, after he thought he was being discriminated against at country clubs in the 70s because he was Italian, he decided to buy his own resort.
After he get tired of waiting for permission to then build a second golf course at one of his clubs, he sent in bulldozers anyway to have the land cleared out.
The elder Mangione also saw that a soccer coach was barred from his club after his son was cut from his team.''

I don't see a connection between the grandfather and LM's behavior. Lots of people come from similar backgrounds. The grandfather had 37 grandkids and only LM turned out like this.

 

[legalese]

He is 100% guilty, the evidence they have is an absolute slam dunk in terms of the fact he shot and killed BT, the danger exists though that the jury will get an LM supporter on it. I think encouraging him to plead guilty even using the threat of federal death penalty charges to make that happen would be a good thing.

In the UK the judge accepts 10 out of 12 jurors agreeing a guilty verdict, in NYS it is all 12, much more risk of a LM fanboy/girl

That’s my point, though. If NY can prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, then they will do so. The system should not be weaponized in this case—or in any case—to corner someone into pleading guilty.

LM and all criminal defendants have rights and must be presumed innocent until proven guilty. It’s not okay to infringe on these rights just because someone appears to be “100% guilty.” LM is just one defendant in the system. Weaponizing the criminal justice system in this case opens the doors for it to happen to the thousands of other criminal defendants in NY who certainly will not have the media covering the injustice done.

 

[NuttMegg]

Death penalty. Not buying it. He's worse than THIS?

Supermax prison - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The objective is to provide long-term, segregated housing for inmates classified as the highest security risks in the prison system and those who pose an extremely serious threat to both national and global security. "Supermax prison - Wikipedia"

 

[Tiff23fr]

Federal charges against Mangione expected to be unsealed today​

From CNN's Evan Pérez, Brynn Gingras and Shimon Prokupecz
Federal charges against Luigi Mangione are expected to be unsealed later today. They include stalking murder and using a silencer in a crime of violence, multiple law enforcement officials tell CNN.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/the-latest-on-the-unitedhealthcare-ceo-killing-suspect-12-19-24/index.html?t=1734622982501

 

[eishish]

I wouldn't hold your breath for anything interesting or insightful, tbh. It will, I'm sure, be just the nonsensical ramblings of someone with mental health/personality disorder problems.

Theres so much to sleuthily unravel here. Am looking forward to the relationship he had with providers/insurors-the path that led to this. Pain levels 9,10 are off the charts unsustainable, were there pm drs, missed anxiety, or not addressed. See, the supposed mentally ill person per your description was not served well and it resulted in this scenario. Who is his insuror? Is in not uhc. Obvi he was crying for help. All I can say is supposed botched work, pain levels off the charts, pain, anger show the shortcomings that is attracting him this following. The media also played in. Just waiting for whoever was in charge of his paid for health and him to have their day in court

 

[legalese]

That doesn't mean that CEOs are treated differently! If he were an Islamic terrorist shooting shooting scantily clad women because they had the temerity to dance and drink alcohol in a nightclub he'd still be charged with terrorism offences.

If you choose your victim because you are trying to bring about societal change through violence then that's terrorism. The fact that his victim was very highly paid and powerful is beside the point.

It’s quite a bit more difficult to establish that the shooting of one individual was an act that LM intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population. Based on what we know, there’s a strong argument that his actions weren’t intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population (nor did they do so from the reaction we have seen).

 

[arielilane]

The 11-count indictment out of New York charges him with first-degree murder, two counts of second degree murder — one of which is charged as a killing in the act of terrorism; two counts of second-degree criminal possession of a weapon; four counts of third-degree criminal possession of a weapon; one count of fourth-degree criminal possession of a weapon; and one count of second-degree criminal possession of a forged instrument, Bragg said in a statement.

UnitedHealthcare CEO murder suspect Luigi Mangione waives extradition

The 26-year-old suspect has been charged in an 11-count indictment in New York with first-degree murder in the Dec. 4 killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

www.nbcnews.com

12/19/2024

 

[BrianJohnson]

That’s my point, though. If NY can prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, then they can do so. The system should not be weaponized in this case—or in any case—to corner someone into pleading guilty.

LM and all criminal defendants have rights and must be presumed innocent until proven guilty. It’s not okay to infringe on these rights just because someone appears to be “100% guilty.” LM is just one defendant in the system. Weaponizing the criminal justice system in this case opens the doors for it to happen to the thousands of other criminal defendants in NY who certainly will not have the media covering the injustice done.

You are right but even if the prosecution proves its case and the evidence is clear as day there is imho about a 10-20% chance he gets a not guilty verdict because a supporter got onto the jury. We already have influencers coaching young people about how to get onto the jury and what to say to those that choose the jury. Over 50% of under 30's support LM, all it takes is one and he walks away a free man

 

[Marantz4250b]

It’s quite a bit more difficult to establish that the shooting of one individual was an act that LM intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population. Based on what we know, there’s a strong argument that his actions weren’t intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population (nor did they do so from the reaction we have seen).

I get that but you said that he's being treated less favourably than others would be based purely on the wealth and status of his victim. I see no evidence for that at all.

On the bolded part - correct, based on what we know.

I don't think it'll be easy to convict him on first degree charges because you need to show intent and that is never easy. It's similar to why its easier to prove murder than it is to prove attempted murder (in the UK at least) as you don't need to prove intent to kill for murder.

 

[Friday Fan]

Federal charges against Mangione expected to be unsealed today​

From CNN's Evan Pérez, Brynn Gingras and Shimon Prokupecz
Federal charges against Luigi Mangione are expected to be unsealed later today. They include stalking murder and using a silencer in a crime of violence, multiple law enforcement officials tell CNN.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/the-latest-on-the-unitedhealthcare-ceo-killing-suspect-12-19-24/index.html?t=1734622982501

Federal stalking laws. MOO: Likely some type of cyberstalking occurred. We on the sidelines just don't know how he knew about BT's schedule, but FBI has access to his digital trail.

Summary: https://www.thefederalcriminalattorneys.com/federal-stalking
Longer version: https://www.justice.gov/d9/2023-12/dv_stalking_oct_2023_0.pdf

 

[legalese]

Federal charges against Mangione expected to be unsealed today​

From CNN's Evan Pérez, Brynn Gingras and Shimon Prokupecz
Federal charges against Luigi Mangione are expected to be unsealed later today. They include stalking murder and using a silencer in a crime of violence, multiple law enforcement officials tell CNN.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/the-latest-on-the-unitedhealthcare-ceo-killing-suspect-12-19-24/index.html?t=1734622982501

He will presumably be taken to the SDNY today for arraignment on the federal charges.

I’m spitballing here, but it’s possible the federal charges are being used, at least in part, as a basis to hold LM in federal prison instead of Rikers. Perhaps his attorney negotiated this deal before agreeing to waive extradition. MDC Brooklyn is far from a nice place to live, but it is safer and generally less awful than Rikers…

 

[citygirl]

Death penalty. Not buying it. He's worse than THIS?

Supermax prison - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The objective is to provide long-term, segregated housing for inmates classified as the highest security risks in the prison system and those who pose an extremely serious threat to both national and global security. "Supermax prison - Wikipedia"

Yikes.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Federal stalking laws. MOO: Likely some type of cyberstalking occurred. We on the sidelines just don't know how he knew about BT's schedule, but FBI has access to his digital trail.

Summary: https://www.thefederalcriminalattorneys.com/federal-stalking
Longer version: https://www.justice.gov/d9/2023-12/dv_stalking_oct_2023_0.pdf

Bringing this forward from yesterday:
“But the date and Hilton location for the UnitedHealthcare investor conference, where Thompson was set to speak, wasn't publicly announced until two days later on November 26.”

Investigators reveal why they believe Luigi Mangione didn't act alone

Top crime investigators are convinced the suspected UnitedHealthcare CEO shooter carried out the cold-blooded murderer with the help of an accomplice, DailyMail.com can reveal.

www.dailymail.co.uk