NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #10 *Arrest*

[Friday Fan]

In Canada, there is a rarely used determination of dangerous offender status with indeterminate sentence. Is there something similar in New York State?

Could Mangione have been convicted of shooting a stranger in the back with intent, and then be given a dangerous offender with terrorist intention status?

Does this terrorism charge muddy the waters and shift focus from intent to motive - making motive the Star of the Show. Is that in anyone's best interests?

Which charge is heard first? Murder or terrorism? Lunatic or martyr?

I hear you. I don't think a 'terrorist intention status" is being used. They have them in other states, but I don't know about NY. Actually, this is plain old first degree murder, (MOO) but NY has all these other qualifiers that need to be met before it's considered first degree. Most states just need to show pre-planned for first degree.

I like your mindset though. It's seems more applicable.

 

[otto]

Prior to taking LM's case, his lawyer commented on CNN that a mental health type defense might be the best option. With the overwhelming amount of evidence here, it's hard to disagree. Her problem however, might be her client. He likely wants to be a martyr for his cause, but that's greatly diminished by any argument that he wasn't in his right mind at the time. You can't have both things at once:

I'm a hero standing up against corporate greed.
I'm a crazy person who killed a man because I wasn't thinking straight.

I think Mangione wants his day in court to testify his beliefs at the time of the shooting - to deliver his 2.5 page magnificent Mussolini quality manifesto. I don't think he cares whether it changes his sentence, he just wants to make a statement that is heard. Because he has groupies, and because his radical beliefs are distorted from reality, this should not be allowed. Better that he is deemed unfit than allowed to ignite low intelligence copycat radicals.

 

[detective.moon]

I think Mangione wants his day in court to testify his beliefs at the time of the shooting - to deliver his 2.5 page magnificent Mussolini quality manifesto. I don't think he cares whether it changes his sentence, he just wants to make a statement that is heard. Because he has groupies, and because his radical beliefs are distorted from reality, this should not be allowed. Better that he is deemed unfit than allowed to ignite low intelligence copycat radicals.

i understand your point, but wouldn’t it be his right to speak during the trial? (i don’t know that much about it, so would love to know if someone knows more about this)

 

[otto]

i understand your point, but wouldn’t it be his right to speak during the trial? (i don’t know that much about it, so would love to know if someone knows more about this)

Does USA Federal Law allow locally grown terrorists to proclaim manifestos during trial?

Everyone in North America has the right to defend themselves against prosecution where court testimony relates to charges. If he is charged with terrorism, I doubt he can testify a defence of Manifesto without implying guilt.

Better that he is put in a psychiatric ward until fit to stand trial than open the door to a mentally ill man inspiring other simple minded people.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

Accused CEO killer Luigi Mangione is expected to face federal charges in the coming days — on top of the first-degree New York state murder charge he was hit with Tuesday, according to law enforcement sources.

Sources told The Post federal prosecutors have secured an indictment from a grand jury against the 26-year-old, who allegedly gunned down UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson on a midtown Manhattan street on Dec. 4.

Exclusive | Luigi Mangione, accused killer of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, expected to face fed charges in coming days: sources

Mangione was captured days after the slaying in Pennsylvania after what Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg called a “well-planned targeted murder.”

nypost.com

Wow. I’m not saying what this guy did was ok, but there is clearly a two tiered system of justice in the US. It feels like wow, so everyone *could* have a fair and speedy trial as is their right… instead of rotting in jail for months while waiting for the next hearing… MOO.

 

[JDG]

Wow. I’m not saying what this guy did was ok, but there is clearly a two tiered system of justice in the US. It feels like wow, so everyone *could* have a fair and speedy trial as is their right… instead of rotting in jail for months while waiting for the next hearing… MOO.

I think this looks *speedy* because LM is facing charges in two jurisdictions.

He’s been in and out of the courthouse for charges in Penn., now he’s agreed to extradition and is heading to NYS for those charges.

It’s not the same as going to trial, he’s simply got charges in two states.

He will do his time awaiting trial, it takes a lot of preparation to be ready for a trial of any sort.

This won’t be a simple trial, not by any means.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

I think this looks *speedy* because LM is facing charges in two jurisdictions.

He’s been in and out of the courthouse for charges in Penn., now he’s agreed to extradition and is heading to NYS for those charges.

It’s not the same as going to trial, he’s simply got charges in two states.

He will do his time awaiting trial, it takes a lot of preparation to be ready for a trial of any sort.

This won’t be a simple trial, not by any means.

That makes sense, thank you!

 

[JDG]

Dbm

 

[MrsWatson]

LM could have used all his education, intelligence and financial resources to affect real change in the health insurance industry. Murdering the CEO of United was not the way to accomplish that.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Does USA Federal Law allow locally grown terrorists to proclaim manifestos during trial?

Everyone in North America has the right to defend themselves against prosecution where court testimony relates to charges. If he is charged with terrorism, I doubt he can testify a defence of Manifesto without implying guilt.

Better that he is put in a psychiatric ward until fit to stand trial than open the door to a mentally ill man inspiring other simple minded people.

IIRC … his manifesto which would be in evidence, is 300 words. Won’t take too long to read that. He might have other writings or things he’s written that he, if took stand, would be asked to explain which could work against his not guilty plea.
IMO
Explaining that murder he planned & committed was “defending” unknown others from harm. (Individuals who have murdered “abortion” doctors have all been convicted of murder despite defending pre-born from harm. See George Tiller murder.)

Additionally, his speaking in court in own defense might do more harm, as it opens the door to many other questions that he might now want to answer. Judge might also bar him from making certain claims or statements. He likely will not be able to use courtroom as a platform for his views, his trial will attempt be focused on the crime, evidence and his guilt. Not on LM opinions.

 

[Charlot123]

.

As a second degree murder charge, the prosecutor could argue intent without mentioning motive. As a terrorism charge, I'm assuming that argument can't be made without motive.

It opens the door to a noisy public discussion about health insurance rather than focus on murder, in my opinion. Is he a celebrity or is he deadly? I personally think that Mangione is dangerous, but he has his mug on candles ... popular like Charles Manson.

If the social media discussion becomes a debate about justifiable homicide ... that' not a healthy society. It's just a matter of time before the question is who deserves to live, and who doesn't.

Will charging him with terrorism feed the masses and derail the intent argument?

To me, it is interesting what emergence of terrorists indicates socially. Often, these groups/personalities/causes fizzle out, but they indicate something to be paid attention to. If left unattended, things might slowly progress into uncontrollable. Hard to foresee what case means what.

Unabomber decided to proclaim his cause at court, and he is forgotten. But these were 70es to 90es, a very different time.

Let us see.

ETA. The door to the discussion has been opened already. The "personal part" of the murder is totally on the back burner.

 

[JDG]

No one deserves to be shot in the back for their occupation.

Easy to judge a dead man, no proof & no compassion?? Really??

The criminal act was perpetrated by Luigi Mangione (alleged), not Brian Thompson.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I don't think he was eating at McDonald's and staying at hostels/motels because he was skint. He had money. He tried to stay anonymous but failed. Personally I think he just ran out of gas after the murder. So much intense planning, so much intense execution, so much adrenalin, then he crashed.

Strangely, I do keep thinking of the Vicki White, prison guard, who got her prisoner lover, Casey White out of prison case.

they were on the run for days, and sooooo many people were routing for them!

And they were simply found in a motel not all that far away.

Same situation, I believe.... they just ran out of steam.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

The reality is, I don't think it will be easy to find a jury member who never had UHC. Or Medicare Advantage, for that matter.

Based on that Emerson poll we saw.... the defense is going to want younger folks.

Seniors. are all likely to be on Medicare or Medicare Advantage.
And if younger seniors, there is less a likelihood of overwhelming dissatisfaction with their health care. Most people I know who have switched to Medicare Advantage from standard Medicare are quite happy, still.

Jury selection WILL be interesting...whenever that may be. IMO, age will be a real influence here.

 

[Warwick7]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1869734623342690602

 

[girlhasnoname]

From what I have been able to ascertain, his parents are quite rich beyond what they might have received from the grandmother. Who knows, maybe they gave Luigi a chunk of money for graduating from college or for some other reason. I don't really know how being wealthy works.

LM's Ivy League Bachelors and Masters cost a pretty penny no doubt. I wonder who payed that bill? The parents, the grandmother? Was he awarded financial assistance considering he graduated from his expensive private HS ($35K/year) as Valedictorian?

Both degrees obtained in 4 years would have cost anywhere from $300K including tuition, room and board, book fees and so on I would guesstimate.

JMO

 

[citygirl]

UnitedHealthcare CEO killing latest: Mangione arrives at court, faces extradition to New York on 1st-degree murder charge

Luigi Mangione, the man accused of gunning down UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, is expected to waive extradition and could be sent to New York as soon as Thursday.

abcnews.go.com

He’s arrived.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

As a second degree murder charge, the prosecutor could argue intent without mentioning motive. As a terrorism charge, I'm assuming that argument can't be made without motive.

It opens the door to a noisy public discussion about health insurance rather than focus on murder, in my opinion. Is he a celebrity or is he deadly? I personally think that Mangione is dangerous, but he has his mug on candles ... popular like Charles Manson.

If the social media discussion becomes a debate about justifiable homicide ... that' not a healthy society. It's just a matter of time before the question is who deserves to live, and who doesn't.

Will charging him with terrorism feed the masses and derail the intent argument?

@otto states.... Will charging him with terrorism feed the masses and derail the intent argument?

I feel the answer to this is a resounding YES. There is much logical and sound argument saying this is NOT terrorism, primarily 'how many people are actually put into a state of fear'. All executives running Healthcare systems is not a large number.
I think stressing this strategy will derail the intent, significantly.

 

[Warwick7]

"Federal charges could make Mangione eligible for the death penalty. He faces a maximum sentence of life in prison without parole if convicted of the state charges.:

"Mangione's New York lawyer, Karen Friedman Agnifilo, said in a statement, "The federal government's reported decision to pile on top of an already overcharged first-degree murder and state terror case is highly unusual and raises serious constitutional and statutory double jeopardy concerns."

UnitedHealthcare CEO killing latest: Mangione arrives at court, faces extradition to New York on 1st-degree murder charge

Luigi Mangione, the man accused of gunning down UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, is expected to waive extradition and could be sent to New York as soon as Thursday.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Warwick7]

CNN:

"Luigi Mangione got dozens of letters and donations in jail during his brief time in Pennsylvania before his expected move to New York today.:

"As of Tuesday afternoon, Mangione had received 158 deposits into his commissary account, which inmates can use to purchase personal items like snacks and toiletries, according to Maria Bivens, a spokesperson for the Pennsylvania Department of Corrections."

"Mangione also received more than 50 letters, Bivens said..."

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/the-latest-on-the-unitedhealthcare-ceo-killing-suspect-12-19-24/index.html