NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #10 *Arrest*

[otto]

I've updated the timeline to add recent comments - a work in progress. I hope I didn't miss anything. The timeline is entirely based on links provided at this website. Please feel free to make corrections/ updates.

childhood - spondylolisthesis diagnosis
November 2020 - started work with True Car, Inc.
?? November 2021 or January 2022 - moved into Surfbreak remote workers community? (moved out after 6 months)
Early 2022 - Surfbreak co-living community, Honolulu, active in daily sports
January 2022 - sciatica, beginner surfing lesson injury, one week in bed
February 2022 - slipped on piece of paper, right glute locked and right leg shut down for a week, leg couldn't support weight
March 2022 - nerve pain issues, experienced pain off and on
April or June 2022 - left Surfbreak community due to a lifelong back injury exacerbated by physical activity on the island, sought medical treatment on the East Coast
?? June-December 2022 - living in San Fransisco?
January 2023 - returned to Hawaii "briefly in early 2023", co-started a book club, several members left due to discomfort in book choices (Unabomber manifesto)
?? date 2023 - President of the Penn Club of Hawaii briefly met Mangione, Shangri La Museum of Islamic Art, Culture & Design in Honolulu
June 14 2023 - lost job due to TrueCar restructuring
July 4 2023 - experienced another injury, went to hospital
July 2023 - had spinal fusion surgery on East Coast
August 2023 - claimed surgery was successful 8 days post-surgery
?? date Japan - perhaps looking for work?
November-December 2023 - Hawaii, visiting Maui, Big Island, Oahu
December 2023 - returned to Baltimore to see his family.
February 2024 - Mangione said the surgery came "after 1.5 years of failed conservative treatment." (Jan 2022-July 2023)
Early 2024 - Mangione traveled to Asia for several months
April 2024 - Thailand
May 25 2024 - last reddit post where he endorsed back surgery
June 10 2024 - last twitter post, anniversary of Unabomber death by suicide; final X.com post shared: impact of smart phones and social media on mental health and brain plasticity
?? 2024 - San Francisco?
July 2024 - friend wrote that he hadn’t heard from Mangione in months regarding wedding commitment
July 2024 - began forming murder plan, stopped talking to friends and family
September-October 2024 - Honolulu
September 2024 - Mangione removed phone number from WhatsApp group for Penn alumni in Hawaii
October 2024 - friend asks Mangione on twitter whether he is okay
November 18 2024 - reported missing by mother in San Francisco.
December 4 2024 - shoots a stranger in the back

 

[slowpoke]

Luigi Mangione "folk hero" narrative starts to fall apart

A motive in the murder of Brian Thompson remains elusive after it is reported that his alleged killer was not a client of UnitedHealth and underwent successful back surgery.

www.newsweek.com

UHC says misinformation out there: They say, “The health conglomerate said Thursday that UnitedHealthcare, its insurance division, approves and pays about 90 percent of medical claims upon submission.”

Brian Thompson, the victim, “not the villain many online have made him out to be.” During the Covid pandemic, he played a major role with “keeping thousands of hospitals and other health-care providers afloat during the pandemic," by rushing emergency funds of $135 billion to be distributed through a UnitedHealth-backed fund.

 

[Charlot123]

It's entirely possible that he was on low doses of pain pills too. I have a script that I can elect to call in. I quit taking them sometime this summer. It's always been a PRN script. When I take them, it's usually in the afternoon.
Traveling likely helped his pain if he was enjoying himself. Activities that increase endorphins decrease pain. Hiking is considered to be good to excellent rehab. Sitting in cramped seats increases pain. So, it's possible that he had access to pain meds and it's possible to hoard the meds too.

I doubt he'd stay with low doses. One has to be very organized and afraid of losing control to stay on the dose that has been prescribed.

BTW, I wonder if his pain + some other self-reported symptoms were indicative of a conversion reaction, but it is just MOO.

With spondylolisthesis, exercises don't help, they may worsen the pain. The vertebrae are already misaligned; I know that weight-lifting is not good.

I am wondering if cortisone shots could cause negative mental reaction. Or, looking at his pecs and abs, I wonder what else can be on board. Clearly, he was struggling with self-esteem, among other things.

 

[Charlot123]

I wondered if his family even knew that he had been in Hawaii. We have his Hawaii neighbour stating that he was there 3-4 months prior to the incident, yet his mum put his last location as San Francisco to the police.

I noticed there was nothing on X about Hawaii or where he was/his location. He may have hidden a lot from people.

I think he was in Hawaii in 2022. Mom reported him in 2024? I would assume he did not stay in HI by then.

 

[Friday Fan]

I doubt he'd stay with low doses. One has to be very organized and afraid of losing control to stay on the dose that has been prescribed.

BTW, I wonder if his pain + some other self-reported symptoms were indicative of a conversion reaction, but it is just MOO.

With spondylolisthesis, exercises don't help, they may worsen the pain. The vertebrae are already misaligned; I know that weight-lifting is not good.

I am wondering if cortisone shots could cause negative mental reaction. Or, looking at his pecs and abs, I wonder what else can be on board. Clearly, he was struggling with self-esteem, among other things.

It's quite easy to stay on low doses. I've always taken less than prescribed. I've been on them 30 years.
Maybe I'm the exception??? However, he seems more organized than me.

Since he's post op, walking is the #1 recommended activity following spinal surgery. Hiking also challenges your muscles that you don't use everyday. Surgery tends to atrophy those muscles. Uphill, downhill different terrain. You do need to be careful not to get into twisty type stuff etc.

Since he has a spinal fusion, exercise is most definitely a part of rehab. No one is told to be sedentary after a fusion. Everyone is told to exercise!! Never heard of someone being told not to exercise. Weights are also recommended, but not heavy lifting. The spondy has been corrected, but he must maintain and rehab his core to prevent further deterioration of his spine. This means lots of walking.

 

[Charlot123]

Kaczynski's book was difficult to read because it was written by a man with paranoid schizophrenia, and that would make his very nature disjointed, and oft-grandiose and delusional. It would likely only be fascinating to and "understood" by someone seeing the world via a similar lens, if you get my drift. To which, of course, that someone would then probably become agitated and dissolve his book club because "no one else gets it".

JMO.

Ted's diagnosis was complex and likely, not paranoid schizophrenia. Manifesto was written by a person who would not speak to humans for months... I think his father was the closest connection to the world, but then he got cancer.

And yet I feel sorry for a talent that ended up wasted.

 

[JudyBolton]

Some states require that a motive is presented during murder prosecution, others do not.

Per discussions upthread, NY does not require that a motive is presented by the prosecution during trial (presented, not proven). On that basis, the prosecution may avoid all discussion of motive. The objective is to prove intent, and if that can be done without mentioning motive, I think it strengthens the prosecution argument.

Intent might be proven based on Mangione stalking Thompson's hotel, there might be a digital trail where he studied Brian Thompson's conference plans, there's DNA, preparing the 3D print weapon ... not sure. Mangione made a plan to shoot a stranger in the back. I don't think his reasons matter.

Please share which states require this. To my knowledge, this is never required in any murder trial, regardless of the state.

 

[otto]

Please share which states require this. To my knowledge, this is never required in any murder trial, regardless of the state.

Rather than spend hours researching criminal law in 50 states, I'm happy to agree that New York State does not require that the prosecution present motive during murder trial. Nevermind the rest of the country.

I might have mixed up Canadian and USA law regarding motive. Federal hate crime might require motive to determine sentence.

"In addition to these offences, there is a key provision found in subsection 718.2(a)(i) of the Criminal Code that allows for increased penalties when an offender is sentenced for any criminal offence if there is evidence that the offence was motivated solely or in part by hate.

Mission

• Offender has psychological issues
• Often holds a strong prejudice against a group and/or individual that is targeted and intends to use extreme violence to eliminate the perceived threat
• Motives include: a perceived higher order, desire for retaliation to restore injustice
• No distinguishable triggers
• The smallest number of hate crime incidents

RCMP

 

[arielilane]

What’s next for the suspect in the killing of UnitedHealthcare’s CEO

The man accused of killing UnitedHealthcare’s CEO in Manhattan remains in a Pennsylvania state prison and a possible indictment looms in New York as a grand jury considers evidence on charges he faces there, including one count of murder.

www.yahoo.com

12/16/2024

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Please share which states require this. To my knowledge, this is never required in any murder trial, regardless of the state.

You're correct.

 

[armchairagatha]

Trump is saying the govt will knock out middlemen like UHC:

Insurer stocks fall after Trump says 'we're going to knock out the middleman'

CVS Health's Caremark, Cigna's Express Scripts and UnitedHealth Group's Optum control the majority of the U.S. pharmacy benefit market, with their parent companies also operating health insurance and pharmacy businesses. Pharmacy benefit managers negotiate drug costs with pharmacies and drug...

finance.yahoo.com

Maybe LM’s manifesto had an impact after all.

 

[otto]

Trump is saying the govt will knock out middlemen like UHC:

Insurer stocks fall after Trump says 'we're going to knock out the middleman'

CVS Health's Caremark, Cigna's Express Scripts and UnitedHealth Group's Optum control the majority of the U.S. pharmacy benefit market, with their parent companies also operating health insurance and pharmacy businesses. Pharmacy benefit managers negotiate drug costs with pharmacies and drug...

finance.yahoo.com

Maybe LM’s manifesto had an impact after all.

What does that mean? No more CEOs or no more AI insurance assessment?

 

[sunspun]

I definitely understood LM's passion for comprehensive reform of US health insurance with coverage for all people, as have thousands of other Americans who have read about him. His altruism is admirable and very rare these days among Americans. His are realistic and brave goals.

The major difference is in how he borrowed that bit from Ted K on believing violence is the only disruptive tool for systems change.

And how could he have possibly thought he could at all realize his realistic and brave goals while locked up in prison forever?? That part makes no sense. Unless he truly thought he would get away with it. Or if he planned to do this as a final send-off before taking himself out afterward.

Surely he could have come up with some other way that didn't involve murder! I wonder, did he even try to come up with alternatives? Hard to see him having a choice among multiple paths and choosing this one as the best. The only way I can think of that that would happen is if, as I said, he either expected to not get caught or if this was to be his final act in life.

 

[armchairagatha]

What does that mean? No more CEOs or no more AI insurance assessment?

No idea. Maybe direct consumer-pharma or consumer-healthcare provider without the insurer in the middle? It would be a huge thing towards healthcare reform if they even took a step in that direction.

 

[10ofRods]

I've updated the timeline to add recent comments - a work in progress. I hope I didn't miss anything. The timeline is entirely based on links provided at this website. Please feel free to make corrections/ updates.

childhood - spondylolisthesis diagnosis
November 2020 - started work with True Car, Inc.
?? November 2021 or January 2022 - moved into Surfbreak remote workers community? (moved out after 6 months)
Early 2022 - Surfbreak co-living community, Honolulu, active in daily sports
January 2022 - sciatica, beginner surfing lesson injury, one week in bed
February 2022 - slipped on piece of paper, right glute locked and right leg shut down for a week, leg couldn't support weight
March 2022 - nerve pain issues, experienced pain off and on
April or June 2022 - left Surfbreak community due to a lifelong back injury exacerbated by physical activity on the island, sought medical treatment on the East Coast
?? June-December 2022 - living in San Fransisco?
January 2023 - returned to Hawaii "briefly in early 2023", co-started a book club, several members left due to discomfort in book choices (Unabomber manifesto)
?? date 2023 - President of the Penn Club of Hawaii briefly met Mangione, Shangri La Museum of Islamic Art, Culture & Design in Honolulu
June 14 2023 - lost job due to TrueCar restructuring
July 4 2023 - experienced another injury, went to hospital
July 2023 - had spinal fusion surgery on East Coast
August 2023 - claimed surgery was successful 8 days post-surgery
?? date Japan - perhaps looking for work?
November-December 2023 - Hawaii, visiting Maui, Big Island, Oahu
December 2023 - returned to Baltimore to see his family.
February 2024 - Mangione said the surgery came "after 1.5 years of failed conservative treatment." (Jan 2022-July 2023)
Early 2024 - Mangione traveled to Asia for several months
April 2024 - Thailand
May 25 2024 - last reddit post where he endorsed back surgery
June 10 2024 - last twitter post, anniversary of Unabomber death by suicide; final X.com post shared: impact of smart phones and social media on mental health and brain plasticity
?? 2024 - San Francisco?
July 2024 - friend wrote that he hadn’t heard from Mangione in months regarding wedding commitment
July 2024 - began forming murder plan, stopped talking to friends and family
September-October 2024 - Honolulu
September 2024 - Mangione removed phone number from WhatsApp group for Penn alumni in Hawaii
October 2024 - friend asks Mangione on twitter whether he is okay
November 18 2024 - reported missing by mother in San Francisco.
December 4 2024 - shoots a stranger in the back

This is so helpful! I guess I'd add "graduates with BS and MS in Computer Science from University of Pennsylvania) for 2020 as well. And 2016: Graduates from high school in Baltimore, where he is valedictorian (he was 18).

July 2024 onward is fascinating. Sounds like he was already riveted by primitive terrorism (like Ted K) by June 2024.

 

[Furore]

I think there is a lot about chronic pain we currently don’t understand/know all the molecular mechanisms for. It’s miserable, life altering and soul destroying for patients and their loved ones. It’s terrible people feel they are treated like addicts. That said, it is also undeniable that the body develops biological dependence on opioids, however “strong of a person” one is, and also people have different levels of nature and nurture genetic and life risk factors for addiction, but is is indisputable that all of us will develop biological dependence on opioids. Opioid receptors are also internalised into cells over time so sensitivity to them is lost, necessitating escalating doses for same pain effect. What is seen in chronic pain, is that taken regularly in high doses, patients lives are not improved by opioid use, and can be damaged by them. It is also true that opioid overdoses increase with prescriptions given. The medical community is directly responsible for one of the leading causes of accidental death in younger people. So I think proper practitioners have to look at all the evidence, which is generally not to increase opioid prescriptions unless it’s on an as needed basis to allow exercise or another functional improvement on ad hoc basis, because it doesn’t help and ultimately leads to great harm. They were only ever intended as painkillers for terminal conditions for the above reasons. Shall link papers below.

How it relates to LM, he appeared to seek alternative drugs for management of his chronic pain and found them more effective and less addictive. There are numerous twitter posts he condemns opioids and sees them as corporate pushdown. Another example of his anti corporate stance. I disagree with murder obviously. But he is not wrong that OxyCodone for example was robustly marketed as less addictive and very effective for pain, when they all knew it was even more addictive. They wanted to make money.

LM seemed to have very genuine social upheaval views on corporate healthcare, I think he feels strongly about his cause. Some ethicists argue about the greater good in challenging scenarios. Eg if a train is going to run over five people unless you operate the track switch where it would harm only one, what is the ethical decision? When a pilot drops a bomb on fellow men, is that always unjustified? Or does the end justify the means? I can see how if you genuinely believe corporations sacrifice human lives (ie healthcare companies) for profit, you might feel the war should come to their front door.

I’m not there personally and would not want to be part of a society that enables that. But I think this isn’t a “psychotic break” or schizophrenic episode, I think this was planned meticulously if obsessively.

All JMO

Molecular mechanisms of opioid tolerance: From opioid receptors to inflammatory mediators (Review) - PMC

Opioids are considered the most effective analgesics for the treatment of both acute and chronic pain. However, prolonged opioid use can induce a certain level of tolerance to its analgesic effects, leading to a reduction in its effectiveness, ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Postsurgical prescriptions for opioid naive patients and association with overdose and misuse: retrospective cohort study

Objective To quantify the effects of varying opioid prescribing patterns after surgery on dependence, overdose, or abuse in an opioid naive population. Design Retrospective cohort study. Setting Surgical claims from a linked medical and pharmacy administrative database of 37 651 619...

www.bmj.com

Opioids Aware

A resource for patients and healthcare professionals to support prescribing of opioid medicines for pain

www.fpm.ac.uk

 

[arielilane]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/15/business/backpack-united-healthcare-video-backlash/index.html

12/15/2024

 

[Kapua]

And how could he have possibly thought he could at all realize his realistic and brave goals while locked up in prison forever?? That part makes no sense. Unless he truly thought he would get away with it. Or if he planned to do this as a final send-off before taking himself out afterward. <BBM>

Surely he could have come up with some other way that didn't involve murder! I wonder, did he even try to come up with alternatives? Hard to see him having a choice among multiple paths and choosing this one as the best. The only way I can think of that that would happen is if, as I said, he either expected to not get caught or if this was to be his final act in life.

One thing I have learned from following cases on Websleuths is that you cannot expect the actions of criminals to make sense to the rest of us. As to the last sentence of your first paragraph, IMHO, that was his intention. I think he had a mental break and was seriously depressed, among other things. I hope his attorneys arrange for a psych eval. And if they want him to be around long enough to stand trial, they should ensure that he is placed on suicide watch. MOO

 

[ttjo]

@Friday Fan we were discussing the Tinder account yesterday. Did you/others look at the two photos closely? It would be great to hear some added observations:

My Observations:
-Highlights a wildfire in background

it does look like lava, but Oahu has no active volcanos. so if anything it would mean he travelled to the big island, ( Hawaii, or Maui)
you can check this link,

January 2023 summit eruption - Hawaiʻi Volcanoes National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov

 

[Seattle1]

12/15/24

Why Some Killers Keep the Gun | Profiling Evil​