NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #10 *Arrest*

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  • #1,081
Like many primitive revolutionaries (people who think they are going to accomplish revolutionary change but fail to create any sort of political means for it to happen), he probably is a chameleon, an intense but ever-changing person.

Antonio Gramsci (who to to prison in Italy for his quasi-revolutwhionary activities) chose to be a journalist, but found himself outside the law when the Fascist Party came to power in Rome and decided that Gramsci's writings had led to an attempt on the life of Mussolini.

IOW, Gramsci went to prison over issues related to freedom of the press and freedom of speech (neither of which were being observed as rights in Italy at that time). He didn't shoot anyone.

The story of Gramsci is taught in many university classes about social change. The pen is supposed to be mightier than the sword, but what happens when a society abolishes free use of the pen?

Gramsci was held in terrible conditions in prison for 11 years for writing down his views (and being supportive of Communism in Italy). It was a clear example of political persecution (at least that's what the historians and political scientists say). He died just after being transferred from prison to hospital.

This history has sometimes prompted contemporary revolutionaries to adopt different tactics. I am guessing LM sees himself as a revolutionary. He's no Gramsci (whose writings were brilliantly and intensely well thought-out). But then, LM would probably say that Gramsci, with his pen, was ineffectual.

Notably, neither Marx nor Engels are known to have engaged in highly anti-social behavior in the name of their revolutionary ideals. However, the two of them did get up to minor acts of anti-social behavior in the days before they turned to the pen as their weapon.

Primitive rebellion is a very common tactic in the 20th and 21st centuries.
My goal is to find out his motivations and how they were unmet. Was his motivation similar to the unabomber. Who actually it is very painful to state, but right on many accounts. His act was so brazen and he really was transparent and reckless in his "cause" Did his unmet needs of mental and physical pain cause this? Was this his motivation? Or both instances. The minutae, for me at least, is so much less significant than the fervor out there. You cannot tout, charge, deny and be a huge conglomerate worldwide and not deliver. I have many, many instances to back this up.
 
  • #1,082
He is 100% guilty, the evidence they have is an absolute slam dunk in terms of the fact he shot and killed BT, the danger exists though that the jury will get an LM supporter on it. I think encouraging him to plead guilty even using the threat of federal death penalty charges to make that happen would be a good thing.

In the UK the judge accepts 10 out of 12 jurors agreeing a guilty verdict, in NYS it is all 12, much more risk of a LM fanboy/girl

In the US, he is presumed innocent until proven guilty by a jury of his peers.

I think that unless there is an actual public trial, there will be a substantial number of Americans who will take his side and claim he was railroaded. By substantial, I mean greater than 10 percent or so (and most of them will be under 50).

His lawyer is not likely to advise him to readily plead guilty to anything at all. The goal will be to take it to trial and hope that in a case like you are describing, the jury would land on a lesser charge (second degree murder).

The feds can then try him at great expense, as federal trials are super expensive. Then, if there is a death penalty verdict, there will be mandatory death penalty appeals.

Federal proceedings can also drag on - I am very curious to see if P. Diddy actually goes to trial in May, 2025. That would be amazingly fast - a mere 9 months out from the charges. Of course, his is not a death penalty case.

A federal terrorism trial against LM could be quite the three ring circus, IMO.
 
  • #1,083
Federal prosecutors say they have jurisdiction in the case because of Mangione’s “travel in interstate commerce” – taking a bus from Atlanta to New York prior to the killing – as well as “use of interstate facilities” by allegedly utilizing a cell phone and the internet “to plan and carry out the stalking, shooting, and killing of Brian Thompson in the vicinity of West 54th Street and Sixth Avenue in Manhattan.”


Mangione is expected to appear in federal court Thursday. When he will appear in state court remains unclear.

 
  • #1,084
Federal prosecutors say they have jurisdiction in the case because of Mangione’s “travel in interstate commerce” – taking a bus from Atlanta to New York prior to the killing – as well as “use of interstate facilities” by allegedly utilizing a cell phone and the internet “to plan and carry out the stalking, shooting, and killing of Brian Thompson in the vicinity of West 54th Street and Sixth Avenue in Manhattan.”


Mangione is expected to appear in federal court Thursday. When he will appear in state court remains unclear.


I think they must have managed to get into those devices. Common sense says that this required a lot of research in that regard, but they’d need evidence to prove that he utilized his phone and the internet to that end.

I guess his devices weren’t as “locked down,” as he thought.
 
  • #1,085
MOO, the terrorism charge as well as first degree murder is going to take eyes off of his means and motive and lend to a larger discussion about healthcare, billionaires, what constitutes violence in our society, etc.

Maybe they’ll drop charges, but I think he’s much more likely to get off on 1st degree than 2nd degree. Prosecution has to prove those special circumstances are met, and even so, I imagine a lot of potential jurists will not feel that it qualifies, since the average person was not at risk, and he doesn’t seem to have tried to convince others to carry out attacks.

But things will become more clear as the trial approaches. I don’t think the poll we’ve all seen means much, honestly. There’s a lot of nuance to the discussion that is getting flattened, so responses will likely be skewed towards what people think most fits their complex views… All IMO MOO
 
  • #1,086
A federal terrorism trial against LM could be quite the three ring circus, IMO.
Federal terrorism = International Terrorism. (Domestic terrorism is a state charge)
So no. There will not be a federal terrorism charge. Even the Boston Bomber was not charged with terrorism. His charges were for bombs.
 
  • #1,087
I think this looks *speedy* because LM is facing charges in two jurisdictions.

He’s been in and out of the courthouse for charges in Penn., now he’s agreed to extradition and is heading to NYS for those charges.

It’s not the same as going to trial, he’s simply got charges in two states.

He will do his time awaiting trial, it takes a lot of preparation to be ready for a trial of any sort.

This won’t be a simple trial, not by any means.
What charges is he facing in PA? I think murder in NY would supercede any in PA.
 
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  • #1,089
Justice is coming for Brian Thompson's loved ones!

 
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Federal authorities unsealed the complaint Thursday in the high-profile case, which will proceed in parallel with the New York case in which he’s facing 11-counts at the state level – including an “exceedingly rare” first-degree murder charge.

The federal complaint will see Mangione face charges including murder through the use of a firearm, two counts of stalking and one count of possession of a firearm, court documents reveal.

Federal prosecutors pursued their own case to ensure the alleged gunman will be eligible for the death penalty, sources told The Post.
 
  • #1,091
What charges is he facing in PA? I think murder in NY would supercede any in PA.

Gun charges, false IDs etc.

I was replying to the post above mine on page 51.

You are correct.
 
  • #1,092
IMG_5302.webp

i didn’t realise NY doesn’t allow cameras inside the courtroom, so we’re only getting sketches. i imagine if LM wants to give some kind of speech that makes an impact outside of the courtroom it would probably have been preferable for him to do it on camera (jmo)
 
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  • #1,094
Aug 15 Notebook describes how the details are coming together.
The target is insurance because it checks every box.
This was company. #1.

CNN LIVE: 12:04 EST

IMO:
This is Terrorism - Full Stop
This is to turn us (society) into angry wolves against one another.

Now my question is, who also made a financial gain?
So he was a budding serial killer?
 
  • #1,095
I mentioned federal charges right after he was caught. I would love to see it happen.

Maybe if they put the death penalty on the table, he would take a deal to avoid that and we won't have to hear anything else about him.

Of course I think he would fight to the last moment and he's being fueled by all his "supporters". I question weather his goal was even anything to do with healthcare reform. I think he just wanted to be known and he got this idea and was then fueled online by others complaining about the healthcare situation. Instead of deciding he could work to make changes in a legal, ethical way, he decides to do what he did and now some are looking at him as some hero.

He wanted to make a statement with this murder, but I hope what happens is an example is made of him and if that means federal charges and laying it on thick as they can, then I'm all for it. Something needs to deter those that see his acts as acceptable from carrying out similar crimes. This is not how we do things in a civilized society.
 
  • #1,096
Federal terrorism = International Terrorism. (Domestic terrorism is a state charge)
So no. There will not be a federal terrorism charge. Even the Boston Bomber was not charged with terrorism. His charges were for bombs.
Charging him with any terrorism at all will sidetrack ppl into publicly making lists of murderers who did not get that charge. (As I said 20 times already I am in favor of the charge of "terrorism" because it clearly is an over reach)

Demanding to know if ppl on the streets of NYC speak English, and then killing them. Sounds like terrorism to me. But no one seemed to care. See? Once they dumb down a word to keep crime away from the most Tony area of NYC, the word is just a word and everyone can see it.

New York Times Runs Dozens of Stories About Slain CEO – But Hasn’t Covered the Killing of Teenager in Possible Hate Crime Just a Few Miles Away​


 
  • #1,097
Ok, so maybe they haven’t cracked those devices yet. Thank God for that notebook.

Some new photos there, and evidence of months of planning. If he’s talking about things coming together in August, but procrastinating before that, then that indicates that this was in his mind for a lengthy period of time.

IMG_2168.jpeg
 
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  • #1,099
Ok, so maybe they haven’t cracked those devices yet. Thank God for that notebook.

Some new photos there, and evidence of months of planning. If he’s talking about things coming together in August, but procrastinating before that, then that indicates that this was in his mind for a lengthy period of time.

View attachment 552818

They didn’t need to crack the device to see what was going on IMO
The windfall is also financial if you bet against the house.
ETA: I would bet within 3 days of combing through Brian’s Professional circle they realized that what was unfolding was a challenging story for even the best educated college Grad to tell.
I have no doubt they are eager to learn more about where/how LM gathered his information.
 
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  • #1,100
Posted about 45 minutes ago

@alcaprari23

Big line to get into Luigi Mangione extradition hearing today in Altoona. I'll provide updates when I can but no cameras or electronics are allowed inside the courtroom.




Service is terrible here in Blair Co, but if you haven't read the news yet, Mangione waived extradition. He's currently on a flight to NYC with NYPD.
 
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