NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #10 *Arrest*

Status
Not open for further replies.

New York state trial against Mangione will begin before his federal trial, prosecutors say​

From CNN's Kara Scannell
The state case against Luigi Mangione in New York is expected to proceed before the federal trial, according to prosecutors.

Acting US Attorney Edward Kim confirmed the order the cases will be heard in a news release Thursday. No other details have been provided about the timing of the cases.

Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg’s office said in a statement that his office is working with federal partners to determine the timing and logistics of the two cases.

“Speaking generally, we’ve had state prosecutions and federal prosecutions proceed as parallel matters, and we are in conversations with our law enforcement partners,” Bragg said during an unrelated news conference Thursday.

 

12/19/2024


1734648630632.png
 
If he's a terrorist, why use a weapon that can't even shoot 2 bullets in a row.
That will come up in his defense, mark my words.
That's not the definition of "terrorist" in the legislation, though. The terrorism addition is one purely of motive/intent. Doesn't matter how good you are at being one.
 
Imagine holding the cold-blooded killer of a father of two in any sort of esteem.

By the standard employed by his delusional supporters, anyone and everyone in a position of power and influence is fair game.

Where does it end?

I hope those teachers aren’t teaching my kids. I hope any friends who support murder stay the hell away from me. I hope that surgeon who literally has the power or life and death in their hands, isn’t making the same type of call when they operate.

That’s as vile as it is terrifying.

You hate a policy? You hate an organization? You hate a system? You change it.

What you don’t do is support vigilante justice from a killer who seems to have plotted attacks against various other types of institutions, before settling on one that “checked all the boxes.”
Mass, I sincerely respect you as a poster, I watch you often from the sidelines and hold you in high esteem, that's why I know that you need to re-read my post as nowhere did I state that any of those people from any of those walks of life likely CONDONE murder or even agree with murder. Sure you will always get the few who will and they imo need their heads checking, but you must be able to see that from other people's perspectives, it's not a shock that people have become so damn fed up, lost and frustrated at what is happening all over the states, that when an incident like this occurs they simply cannot see the man. They can't see the father of two. They can't see past their own experiences of what he stood right at top of, right in the public spotlight being paid to sanction denials to the masses. To many this isn't a murder (we know it is, a pretty bog standard one at that in its simple terms) it's a stand against something that has impacted and hurt so many. They don't see the man, they see the corporation and feel an impact has to be made. In a sense it has as well, the upcoming trials will very likely open all kinds of wormy cans. Will it change things overall and in the long run? Nope, highly unlikely.They will have already replaced BT with someone else as the sad part is, he was also just a means to an end to the shoddy system. I'm not going to get into emotional reactions as I tend to babble, but it's not completely beyond the realm of any bodies understanding that there's a large percentage of the public that in some way support an act against a perceived evil, it doesn't mean they are specifically justifying a man killing a man, unfortunately it's now bigger than that.

You talk about where does it end? Where can it end when protesting doesn't work, a man literally gunning down a healthcare insurance CEO doesn't work entirely... It's all a very sad state of affairs that it's even come to this sort of extreme, but not surprising.
 
New York's status as a world capital? That is mentioned in many articles but it is obviously not a fact but an opinion and as such, something subjective.
I think it was meant as "financial and business" capital. It's why you see big, leading companies having offices in "London-Paris-New York" stated in their publicity.
 

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>


4 hr 20 min ago

Here's why Mangione's arrival in New York was unusual for a federal suspect​

From CNN's Andy Rose
Luigi Mangione is escorted at a helicopter pad in New York on Thursday.

Luigi Mangione is escorted at a helicopter pad in New York on Thursday.
Eduardo Munoz/Reuters

"When Luigi Mangione arrived at a Manhattan heliport Wednesday afternoon, surrounded by dozens of heavily armed law enforcement officers and even the mayor of New York, it
marked a substantial departure from how federal suspects are normally processed.

Mangione’s very public escort from the helicopter platform jutting out into the East River from Lower Manhattan was in stark contrast to federal authorities’ usual reluctance to engage in “perp walks” that can draw a media circus.

According to CNN senior justice correspondent Evan Pérez, officials usually “go to extraordinary lengths to avoid perp walks because they are considered prejudicial.”

The spectacle of being surrounded by officers with bulletproof vests and automatic weapons drawn may be a reflection of Mangione’s own unique form of notoriety.

“The security around Mangione today is because of what they’ve been seeing in terms of the public support for him and their security worries about somebody not trying to attack him, but to try and free him from law enforcement,” said CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller.

Cameras are not allowed in federal courtrooms, and the federal Bureau of Prisons does not release booking photos of inmates, so Mangione’s helicopter departure may be the last time he is seen in public for some time."




Good grief!!!!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
In a statement on the new federal charges, Acting US Attorney Edward Y. Kim for the Southern District of New York hit out at Mangione, calling the killing “a grossly misguided attempt to broadcast [his] views” across the country, adding, “This wasn’t a debate, it was murder.”

 
It's not UHC who would offer a plea deal- it's the state of New York. I don't see a reason to "make it go away". The state of New York has already gotten the bad publicity because it happened there and he escaped NY for 5 days. They have no obligation to offer him a plea deal, nor to accept on he might offer. Plea deals are usually offered when it's a weak case. I don't think the healthcare industry will be impacted long-term by this one-off whacko, even if there is some public support for him.
If he wanted to be a "sympathetic defendant", he'd have had a much better case if he had actually had United Healthcare and he or a loved one had actually been denied coverage by them. He was able to obtain back surgery from whoever was his healthcare provider.
Since there's obviously a huge number of people "on his side", as far as hate for the health insurance industry goes, he had a great chance of coming out as a "hero" activist or as you say, a sympathetic defendant, if he had only stuck to choices in which nobody died! He should have set their corporate office on fire, when no employees were in the building. That's probably easier said than done, so probably not that, but I'm sure he could have thought of something just as dramatic and newsbreaking and sensational that would get a lot of media and public attention, and yes, sympathy for his position against the industry. It could be almost anything, as long as he didn't have to kill anybody to do it! Wouldn't even have to be anything tragic, like arson. He could have alerted the media to be there when he bravely scaled their high rise office, risking his own life to hang a banner bearing words shaming the industry. He could even have done it bare-chested, showing off his marvelous muscled body (if he still has it!) And he could have kept on doing daredevil feats of various kinds until the industry was properly shamed, which wouldn't take long with a handsome hero as their antagonist, fast gaining the public's admiration, and becoming a beloved legend.

Probably silly, but I am 100 percent sure he could have come up with other ideas that would have done as much to bring out the public anti-health insurance sentiment as the one he chose, none of which included murdering anyone!

If he really wanted to put in the work, he could have sweated out a complete business plan, an alternative model in opposition to what we have now in place, something that works better to cover the country's healthcare needs that is more compassionate and driven by and for humans, not algorithms and AI. Or even make a better AI. He'd probably be good at fundraising and bringing in venture capitalists and angel investors (he checks all the right boxes - or he DID!) He could even start off with dramatic, generous offers to pay off individual medical bills, in a sweepstakes or whatever, using whatever funds he still had from his wealthy, privileged upbringing and inheritances and trust funds etc. to start. Celebrities and "influencers" would be clamoring to throw their money at him or get their name attached to his.

Or would have been actually. Yes, it's all too late now for him to do anything good for anybody. Well, after he's convicted and all the hoopla has died down and he's settled quietly in his solitary cell, maybe then he'll have a chance to do some good. He'll have all the time in the world to sit and think, so maybe he can come up with some ideas then. No scaling high rises himself then, but he can put it all down on paper, and if the guards in the prison mail room don't steal his ideas, he can mail it all out to the world. So he still has a chance to make something happen!
/s mostly
 
I’m curious to know why some of you firmly believe this is terrorism.

People v. Morales, 20 N.Y.3d 240 (2012), a NY Court of Appeals opinion, is worth a read. Some relevant quotes:

Specifically, the statutory language [of section 490] cannot be interpreted so broadly so as to cover individuals or groups who are not normally viewed as “terrorists” ( see generally Hedgeman,70 N.Y.2d at 537, 523 N.Y.S.2d 46, 517 N.E.2d 858) and the legislative findings in section 490.00 clearly demonstrate that the legislature was not extending the reach of the new statute to crimes of this nature. This is apparent in the examples of terrorism cited in the legislative findings: (1) the September 11, 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon; (2) the bombings of American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998; (3) the destruction of the Oklahoma City federal office building in 1995; (4) the mid-air bombing of Pan Am Flight number 103 in Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988; (5) the 1997 shooting from atop the Empire State Building; (6) the 1994 murder of Ari Halberstam on the Brooklyn Bridge; and (7) the bombing at the World Trade Center in 1993 ( seePenal Law § 490.00). The offenses committed by defendant and his associates after the christening party obviously are not comparable to these instances of terroristic acts.

We must also consider the sources that the legislature consulted in drafting the new statutes. The definitional provisions of Penal Law article 490 were “drawn from the federal definition of ‘international terrorism’ ” . . . The federal antiterrorism statutes were designed to criminalize acts such as “the detonation of bombs in a metropolitan area” or “the deliberate assassination of persons to strike fear into others to deter them from exercising their rights” —conduct that is not akin to the serious offenses charged in this case. Similarly, a statute extending federal jurisdiction to certain crimes committed against Americans abroad with the intent “to coerce, intimidate, or retaliate against ... a civilian population” ( 18 USC § 2332[d] ) was not meant to reach “normal street crime” ( see e.g. Linde v. Arab Bank, PLC, 384 F.Supp.2d 571, 581 n. 7 [E.D.N.Y.2005] [“drive-by shootings and other street crime,” and “ordinary violent crimes ... robberies or personal vendettas,” do not satisfy the intent element of “international terrorism” under 18 USC § 2331(1) ] ).
People v. Morales, 20 N.Y.3d 240 | Casetext Search + Citator
 
Last edited:
I just watched him arrive in NYC. I have to confess this entire situation has me so sad. He could be one of my nephews, it's just a horrible heart breaking situation. He brought this all on himself, I just don't understand it. Murdering Brian solved nothing. He destroyed so much by doing this. I am really just sad, sad, sad. The Thompson's facing their first Christmas without Brian, Mangione's family dealing with this shocking assassination. We really just never know what we may face in the future.
It's a very sad situation for all of the victims. I feel as though they have been lost in the uproar. And yes, I am even sad for LM himself, a man from a privileged background who is not likely to do well in prison, IMHO. He threw his life away. He didn't have to do this. He could have made a documentary film as Michael Moore did, but perhaps he thought that had already been done. He could have sent letters and emails to elected representatives. He could have organized peaceful protests. If he'd done anything short of cold-blooded murder, he'd be everybody's hero without an asterisk.
 
Which makes me think that, like me, LM had an eTrade or similar account. They do not wait until Nov 26 to let the investors know that the thing is going on - they get notified, probably in more than one way, before that.

Indeed, the SEC requires that they (the SEC) be notified in advance of any such investor events. And the invitees had to know well before the press release, or they wouldn't have been able to plan to be there.

The investors receive invitations and a packet of materials well in advance of the press release. And, for me, that shows up in my news area of my brokerage. This conference was about trying to get big investors to invest more, so I imagine the investors were fund owners and representatives, not retail trade.

Apparently, potential investors can contact any equity trader and ask to be put on invite lists for conferences - I have no clue how they choose the attendees. I sure do wish I'd been following them over the past year.
So many ways he could have gotten in. He was a software engineer whose family had a business associated with healthcare. He interned or worked there at some point. I’ve had children of high level execs and owners who “worked” for the summer or when they were fleshing out their resumes. He could have had access to their entire system. He also could have befriended an investor, expressed interest in the conference (his social engineering), or hacked his way in. He said it was simple, and I believe it was.
 
NY made it's laws and restricted themselves with Murder 1, so in this case Murder 2 plus the weapons charges I would agree with. Terrorism charges and federal charges going towards the death penalty for a crime that happened in a none DP state though? Nah, I'm sorry but to me personally they don't sit well and leave a dirty smell in the air.

As someone who has always respected the law and justice, this one has rattled me and made me rethink my previous stances to a degree.

Ultimately in this case I hope no plea agreements are taken and Agnifilo works her magic to tear down the overcharging, leaving only the rightful charges of NY standard Murder 2 and the ones relating to the weapon and he serves his sentence which is rightful justice, the same that's given to all other premeditated murders in NY.

This is my own opinion that I'm entitled to and now firmly stick to, sorry.
Amen. And MOO
 
Sincerely curious as to how that would generate a lot of anger in society? As a whole, or just a particular group?

Any political case represents societal projection. Neither of the parties is viewed as a human, ever. In this case, not even Luigi, to think of. Society views the parties not from the standpoint of “whom they represent”, not even close to this. It is “what they represent.” So far the family part is vague, but if the money is given to “the family” all it will serve is to dehumanize the family and shed the light on it, which will not be good for the family.

The relationship between the family and LM will be sorted out in the civil court, as it always happens. JMO.
 
I’d prefer the Feds take the ball here. Their case is easier because they don’t have to prove the motive (terrorism angle).

It’s pointless to get 25-life or something in state court (assuming the jury doesn’t go for first degree), only to turn around and try him federally.

A federal conviction would almost certainly mean life in prison. Do that and make the state charges moot.
I wish that would have been the case.

I'm afraid the jurors are gonna acquit because of the terrorism thing. Too many cases, jurors have discarded lesser chargers also. I do not want him acquitted even though he will immediately face federal charges.

I also like the fact that I have not seen the face of Dzhokhar Tsarneav since his federal indictment! Tsarneav was better kept out of the public due to all of his heartbroken groupies.
 
Last edited:
Mass, I sincerely respect you as a poster, I watch you often from the sidelines and hold you in high esteem, that's why I know that you need to re-read my post as nowhere did I state that any of those people from any of those walks of life likely CONDONE murder or even agree with murder. Sure you will always get the few who will and they imo need their heads checking, but you must be able to see that from other people's perspectives, it's not a shock that people have become so damn fed up, lost and frustrated at what is happening all over the states, that when an incident like this occurs they simply cannot see the man. They can't see the father of two. They can't see past their own experiences of what he stood right at top of, right in the public spotlight being paid to sanction denials to the masses. To many this isn't a murder (we know it is, a pretty bog standard one at that in its simple terms) it's a stand against something that has impacted and hurt so many. They don't see the man, they see the corporation and feel an impact has to be made. In a sense it has as well, the upcoming trials will very likely open all kinds of wormy cans. Will it change things overall and in the long run? Nope, highly unlikely.They will have already replaced BT with someone else as the sad part is, he was also just a means to an end to the shoddy system. I'm not going to get into emotional reactions as I tend to babble, but it's not completely beyond the realm of any bodies understanding that there's a large percentage of the public that in some way support an act against a perceived evil, it doesn't mean they are specifically justifying a man killing a man, unfortunately it's now bigger than that.

You talk about where does it end? Where can it end when protesting doesn't work, a man literally gunning down a healthcare insurance CEO doesn't work entirely... It's all a very sad state of affairs that it's even come to this sort of extreme, but not surprising.
There's simply no excuse or justification for the murder of Brian Thompson, in spite of attempts by some in the public to dehumanize him (they can't see the man, they can't see the children).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
187
Guests online
524
Total visitors
711

Forum statistics

Threads
625,593
Messages
18,506,777
Members
240,819
Latest member
Berloni75
Back
Top