NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #11 *Arrest*

[Marantz4250b]

My feeling? He was probably immature and confused and in the right age group. Too many books at once, hard to process. Imagine: two years down the road, Luigi in a relationship. Starts talking about the unfairness, the parasites, etc. The partner yawns and says, OK, let’s have risotto for dinner, watch a movie, etc. By the morning, everything is forgotten and people are making plans for the week.

I think you have this right.

People - most people - are social animals. We are social generally but need to be social with a small circle of regular people. LM seems to have been very social and affable but I get the impression that he had very few regular friends, if any. It appears that he wasn't even particularly close with his rather large extended family or even his parents.

When you don't have a regular set of social "accomplices", for want of a better word, you don't have anyone to counter your wilder thoughts.

 

[Marantz4250b]

That's similar to the RCMP link I posted recently in connection to motive. Mangione meets all criteria of this Canadian definition of hate crime. The down side is that charges rely entirely on proving motive, which opens the possibility of groupies and protestors interfering with a trial.

Mission

• Offender has psychological issues
• Often holds a strong prejudice against a group and/or individual that is targeted and intends to use extreme violence to eliminate the perceived threat
• Motives include: a perceived higher order, desire for retaliation to restore injustice
• No distinguishable triggers
• The smallest number of hate crime incidents

https://rcmp.ca/en/corporate-information/publications-and-manuals/hate-crimes-and-incidents-canada

Why the requirement for psychological issues in defining a hate crime? Are all racists psychologically challenged according to Canada?

 

[Friday Fan]

i just read that there had been a halt of 20 years for federal death penalty, until Trump brought it back in 2017. now Biden has commuted 37 out of 40 death sentences to LWOP. so i’m guessing even if LM gets the death penalty, it will
depend on future presidents and their stance on federal death penalty whether it will be carried out.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/12/23/politics/biden-federal-death-row-trump/index.html

Yes. The federal death penalty is used sparingly. I don't think they will pursue it with LM. Heck there is even a terrorist who has a life sentence. This terrorist bombed the World Trade Center in 1993. (I think it may have been because he was a dual citizen?? His numerous crimes were heinous. ) John Gotti also got life.

Only these three remain:

1. Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, one of two brothers responsible for the deadly Boston Marathon bombing in 2013;
2. Dylann Roof, a White nationalist who massacred nine people at a historically Black church in Charleston, South Carolina, in 2015;
3. Robert Bowers, who killed 11 worshippers at Pittsburgh’s Tree of Life Synagogue in 2018.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Jeez they had more cops around him than El Chapo did. Guess it's to show the scared CEOs that things are safe for then and to continue the nice political donations

I don't know exactly why they did this. Many explanations can be thrown around.

What is not in doubt, though, is that it was 100% disgusting! Regardless of what people may think of LM he is at the exact moment innocent of any crime!

This amounted to nothing more than parading an innocent man in front of the world for political purposes. Americans got very angry when people like Gary Powers and various US POW's were used for political purposes by the USSR and North Vietnamese respectively but many seem to have no compunctions about doing the exact same thing to their own people.

And that's before you get into all the questions of it making the entire justice system look like an absolute freaking joke.

It's depressing that something like this can be allowed to happen, quite frankly.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Definitely! I did get a bit of a chill when LM “manifesto” mentioned social engineering as it seemed such a calculated term. He did extensively plot the printing of a gun (why a silencer though?! Why that gun?), stalk and murder someone for political symbolism, he’s a very cold chap at times. MOO

Because he's a grandiose fantasist with severe delusions of his own ability, intelligence and standing.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

​

Luigi Mangione faces 11 state charges, including first-degree murder as an act of terrorism in the Manhattan fatal shooting of Brian Thompson.

Suspect Luigi Mangione pleads not guilty to state murder and terror charges in CEO killing

Prosecutors plan to try the 26-year-old on state charges first, before he faces federal charges in Brian Thompson's death.

abc30.com

At a news conference announcing the state charges on Tuesday, Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg said the application of the terrorism law reflected the severity of a “frightening, well-planned, targeted murder that was intended to cause shock and attention and intimidation.”

“In its most basic terms, this was a killing that was intended to evoke terror,” he added. “And we’ve seen that reaction.”

Karen Friedman Agnifilo, an attorney for Mangione, has accused federal and state prosecutors of advancing conflicting legal theories. In federal court last week, she called their approach “very confusing” and “highly unusual.”

Mangione is being held in a Brooklyn federal jail alongside several other high-profile defendants, including Sean “Diddy” Combs

Suspect in death of UnitedHealthcare CEO to appear in court to face state charges

The federal charges could carry the possibility of the death penalty, while the maximum sentence for the state charges is life in prison without parole.

www.live5news.com

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Yes. The federal death penalty is used sparingly. I don't think they will pursue it with LM. Heck there is even a terrorist who has a life sentence. This terrorist bombed the World Trade Center in 1993. (I think it may have been because he was a dual citizen?? His numerous crimes were heinous. ) John Gotti also got life.

Only these three remain:

1. Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, one of two brothers responsible for the deadly Boston Marathon bombing in 2013;
2. Dylann Roof, a White nationalist who massacred nine people at a historically Black church in Charleston, South Carolina, in 2015;
3. Robert Bowers, who killed 11 worshippers at Pittsburgh’s Tree of Life Synagogue in 2018.

interesting...
thanks for posting this.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I think we are reading way too much into this. I believe he was a spoiled brat his whole life & felt he needed a purpose in life (like many rich kids I grew up with). He just took it to the extreme.
….and hopefully pays dearly for it!!

Yes, I think that that's the story at the bottom of all of this. He's not some martyr to a better humanitarian future, he's just (probably) a spoiled rich brat with severe psychological issues going on.

People will keep dreaming up all insane conspiracy theories as to why he did it or that he was set up, etc, etc. People invent these things, though, because - to paraphrase Jack Nicholson - they can't handle the truth! Random stuff they can't stop doesn't compute in their brains making them feel powerless so they have to see some higher force at work.

He's just a saddo, tbh.

All my own opinion, obvs, and he's still innocent until proven guilty.

 

[Charlot123]

.

Apologies if some have linked this already but fascinating interview with LM friend in the UK Gurwinder who bonded over the matters political blog and had video calls lasting hours

In a nutshell…
“DailyMail.com can exclusively reveal the contents of dozens of private messages exchanged by the pair after Mangione, 26, took an interest in Bhogal's blog about politics. Bhogal also shared details of an hours-long video call with Mangione.”

Quite a a bit about inherited or trans generational trauma - does not sound like a great family relationship by this point tbh.

Some other interesting points, about LM being disillusioned with those around him and wanting to found a community on rationalism, stoicism, altruism. Some left wing views, some right. Never any discussion of violence.

Mangione's last message to me seemed a cry for help... I didn't reply

Gurwinder Bhogal fears that health insurance heavyweight Brian Thompson could still be alive today if he had not forgotten to respond to the Ivy League graduate's message.

www.dailymail.co.uk

No offense to Mr. Gurwinder Bhogal, but i would like to ask if this zoom call was free, or Luigi had to pay. I know he bought Gurwinder a subscription to an app, but that was probably a gift.

There is a subconscious, very intuitive memory of certain group (to me, it sounded more like an online mentorship) that was offered to a brilliant person in a certain frame of mind (looking for answers) that seemed costly. In no way was it a scam, the mentor had something to offer, but valued his time.
So I wonder if the subscription Luigi paid for was, essentially, a soft compensation for a zoom conversation. And, of course, Mr. Gurwinder vets his friends and followers, but was the reason for him not answering too mundane?

Anyhow - it highlights the loneliness and the immaturity of Luigi. Whether an answer would have prevented him or not is for Luigi to tell. I see a certain pattern here, he strikes connection with interesting people, and they answer, but with time, stop answering. Were his messages the cry, less for help, and more for communication?

 

[snarast]

His brain fog can’t have been that bad if he could plan an assassination in such detail, left no stone unturned in his pursuit of killing BT, excuses excuses

It comes easy to some people. The brain fails in different ways for different people.

For some it’s second nature to smile and chat, for others it’s second nature to set up plans and follow them through.

OCD might play a role here, as might narcissism, hypomania….

IMHO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Laws are laws. New York does not have the death penalty. The federal government rarely imposes it. This is mainly due to the fact that data shows the death penalty has been applied unevenly amongst certain demographics.

I prefer that he be out of the public eye and the best way is in prison. Preferably federal prison. They provide more privacy. He wants a megaphone. Death row will give him a megaphone. Even Timothy McVeigh got a megaphone near the end.

IDK if LM qualifies as a terrorist, I can see points on both sides of the discussion. I too wish LM was out of the public eye.

Perpetrators of acts of terrorism soon lose the attention of the public and their 'messaging' once they are sentenced. TK and TM never really got further attention until TK died by suicide in prison and TM was put to death by lethal injection.
I would bet a good portion of US citizens between the ages of 25-45 couldn't even tell you what their actual 'grievances' were without googling it.

Don't give LM the spotlight...I agree 100%.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

Because he's a grandiose fantasist with severe delusions of his own ability, intelligence and standing.

On the contrary, he went to great lengths to hide his identity and distance himself from his family. I don't think he did it for personal fame. He (wrongly) thought it was the way to bring attention to an important cause.

 

[Marantz4250b]

On the contrary, he went to great lengths to hide his identity and distance himself from his family. I don't think he did it for personal fame. He (wrongly) thought it was the way to bring attention to an important cause.

I was replying specifically to the part about his choice of weapon. It was a stupid, stupid choice and was utterly unsuited and unnecessary for what he intended to do. He went to great lengths to make something he could have acquired much more easily and would have been far more practical for his purposes. I think he did so because doing complicated things feeds into his need to feel superior to everyone else.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Wondering what his sentence will be. Rumors are CEOs got the DOJ involved, which is why the terrorism charge. I don't see it as terrorism, just planned murder.

I do agree... but the "terrorism" charge is going to keep us confused a bit.

Both the Feds and the State are using the terrorism angle.
I had felt it would be better for the State to go first, and just concentrate on the murder charges. The "state terrorism" just seems as if it could end up to be very sloppy. Maybe I am not giving NY enough credit here, I know that. But NY LE is embarrassed, and quite honestly they just appear to be going over the top because of that embarrassment.
But the Feds are getting such pressure from the Insurance Industry to make Luigi an example of what can be done to discourage copycats.

So, I think both the State and the Feds are running, in part, on emotional steam, rather than pure logic.

Industry pressure leads to federal charges
According to reports, federal charges were filed in response to pressure from health insurance industry leaders seeking to make an example of Mangione.

The federal case's key advantage lies in its ability to seek the death penalty.

The state charges including murder as an act of terrorism and weapons offenses. The state terrorism charge carries a potential life sentence without parole.

The federal murder charge opens the possibility of the death penalty, despite its abolition in New York in 2004. The final decision on pursuing the death penalty is expected after President-elect Donald Trump takes office.


Did health insurance leaders pressure DOJ over Luigi Mangione case? New report reveals details - Times of India

 

[Charlot123]

I was replying specifically to the part about his choice of weapon. It was a stupid, stupid choice and was utterly unsuited and unnecessary for what he intended to do. He went to great lengths to make something he could have acquired much more easily and would have been far more practical for his purposes. I think he did so because doing complicated things feeds into his need to feel superior to everyone else.

Well, maybe he is anti-gun or if he were ever involuntary committed, it would make obtaining gun impossible. I think he didn't want the gun to be traceable.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I wonder if LE found more propaganda or writings of LM's that supported the terrorism charge? Did he plan on doing this again to another Industry CEO? There's so much we just don't know yet.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

I do agree... but the "terrorism" charge is going to keep us confused a bit.

Both the Feds and the State are using the terrorism angle.
I had felt it would be better for the State to go first, and just concentrate on the murder charges. The "state terrorism" just seems as if it could end up to be very sloppy. Maybe I am not giving NY enough credit here, I know that. But NY LE is embarrassed, and quite honestly they just appear to be going over the top because of that embarrassment.
But the Feds are getting such pressure from the Insurance Industry to make Luigi an example of what can be done to discourage copycats.

So, I think both the State and the Feds are running, in part, on emotional steam, rather than pure logic.

Industry pressure leads to federal charges
According to reports, federal charges were filed in response to pressure from health insurance industry leaders seeking to make an example of Mangione.

The federal case's key advantage lies in its ability to seek the death penalty.

The state charges including murder as an act of terrorism and weapons offenses. The state terrorism charge carries a potential life sentence without parole.

The federal murder charge opens the possibility of the death penalty, despite its abolition in New York in 2004. The final decision on pursuing the death penalty is expected after President-elect Donald Trump takes office.


Did health insurance leaders pressure DOJ over Luigi Mangione case? New report reveals details - Times of India

Agree, I don't see how it fits. It's motivated by money, JMO.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

.

No offense to Mr. Gurwinder Bhogal, but i would like to ask if this zoom call was free, or Luigi had to pay. I know he bought Gurwinder a subscription to an app, but that was probably a gift.

There is a subconscious, very intuitive memory of certain group (to me, it sounded more like an online mentorship) that was offered to a brilliant person in a certain frame of mind (looking for answers) that seemed costly. In no way was it a scam, the mentor had something to offer, but valued his time.
So I wonder if the subscription Luigi paid for was, essentially, a soft compensation for a zoom conversation. And, of course, Mr. Gurwinder vets his friends and followers, but was the reason for him not answering too mundane?

Anyhow - it highlights the loneliness and the immaturity of Luigi. Whether an answer would have prevented him or not is for Luigi to tell. I see a certain pattern here, he strikes connection with interesting people, and they answer, but with time, stop answering. Were his messages the cry, less for help, and more for communication?

He apparently paid $200 a year for a certain ‘tier’ of membership that allowed for these calls. I’ll try to find an approved source that mentions it, but you can go to Gurwinders subscriptions and see the options.

Edited to add- Gurwinder just posted a blog post himself mentioning the tier price: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione

 

[kuromiiiilove]

It comes easy to some people. The brain fails in different ways for different people.

For some it’s second nature to smile and chat, for others it’s second nature to set up plans and follow them through.

OCD might play a role here, as might narcissism, hypomania….

IMHO

BBM. MOO, but when I was reading through his Reddit posts (should I say alleged? The media has confirmed it’s his Reddit, but I know Reddit isn’t generally an approved source..), I thought the same thing. He mentions brain fog, Lyme, insomnia, IBS, SIBO, anxiety, RLS, visual snow, not to mention his back problems.

Definitely a touch of neuroses.

 

[NuttMegg]

I think you have this right.

People - most people - are social animals. We are social generally but need to be social with a small circle of regular people. LM seems to have been very social and affable but I get the impression that he had very few regular friends, if any. It appears that he wasn't even particularly close with his rather large extended family or even his parents.

When you don't have a regular set of social "accomplices", for want of a better word, you don't have anyone to counter your wilder thoughts.

Do we know how much younger he is than the next sibling up? Could be by the time he came along there was a child-raising formula in place and he was left to check off the success boxes with little personal attention. Expected to follow suit, smart enough to fake it. Busy parents, busy sibs.

Being 8th kid in a family with 9 uncles/aunts each with (?) Kids. And lots of money to grease the way.

The other thing I wanted to mention, iirc the brain fog was while he was working on BS/MS? Friend of mine who is genious like Luigi, but not a killer, told me quantum math, quantum computing was the hardest subject he had ever encountered. And he a math whiz, already on PhD's.

I don't feel qualified to analyze what brain fog could indicate in ppl from other universes. (J/K but true.)

One other thing, about the visual snow, so odd that I never heard of it before the Idaho 4 killer. Not even on WS. Maybe it's a newer term for a neurological issue? So now, twice. But BK was not in the realm, imo, of advanced computer engineering.