NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #11 *Arrest*

[nhmemorymaker]

I don't believe they would unless LM has a documented history of MH issues. If he does, then perhaps they might consider it, but I don't believe they will go lightly on the act of violence LM carefully pre-planned and executed against an innocent man.

LM is going to do some serious prison time, as he (or anyone) should, if found guilty by a jury of his peers.

IMO

In the beginning, I feel I was of the same sentiment as you suggest:
I don't believe they would (go for second degree) unless LM has a documented history of MH issues. If he does, then perhaps they might consider it, but I don't believe they will go lightly on the act of violence LM carefully pre-planned and executed against an innocent man.

But, also as you state, as I considered the extensive premeditation and execution, and his apparent personal needs for recognition, I have a hard time accepting anything other than first degree.
I still doubt the value of the charges of terrorism.

IF he accepts second degree, might not his fanbase feel more disillusioned with him? It would shine a light on his selfishness over his martyrdom.

 

[Odeto BJ]

I don't think LM will plea or is even entertaining it. His ego is too big. MOO

I agree as it applies to his current situation but as generality the ego is not permanent, it evolves and can change fairly quickly as consequence of trauma or emotional turmoil, for instance. In terms of a trial, its early days; and I believe his very sharp lawyers will digest and prepare a summary of all the evidence against him, present it to him with the premise that "you have no other choice" and unlike other pre-trial shenanigans we've all observed here on WS, they will avoid giving anything to MSM that would tend to undermine the prosecution's case. For the defense, continued coverage that intensifies or ratifies the "martyr" status for LM or even rallies those that support this crime is an anathema because it tends to support the "terrorist" elements of the 1DM charge.
Those conditions also leave LM on his pedestal; and they need to take him down off that pedestal to get him to consider a plea deal. The greater the interval between court or otherwise public appearances for LM in the near future, the more likely the attention of MSM and those vilifying the insurance industry will deflect and wain; and that suits their purposes, whether a plea deal is forthcoming or they choose to go to trial at the state level. With the mountain of evidence we already know about, the defense has to consider any sentence that includes the possibility of parole to be a win.
I anticipate the media will have considerable difficulty writing "hard news" on this case in the near term because their sources of information are going to largely dry up....With the possible exception of Mayor Adams. Within that framework, it is interesting that compared to other cases, we have seen relatively little information from media that was sourced from family, neighbours, close friends and the like.

MOO and could easily be proved wrong.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I don't think LM will plea or is even entertaining it. His ego is too big. MOO

But I can see his selfishness about spending serious prison time, even outranking his ego!!
Well, sortof.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

If LM does have the kind of money that a person would need to pay attorneys from the law firm of Agnifilo Intrater LLP, the firm that is also representing Sean "Diddy" Combs, then I wonder if Brian Thompson's family would consider filing a civil lawsuit against LM to get some justice for Brian. Brian's family could donate any award received to the charity of their choice.

Also, I wonder if Brian Thompson's family could file a civil lawsuit against LM's family, given the mother's statement that she believed that LM could do something like murder Brian Thompson and it wasn't reported to the authorities that not only was he missing, but he could be a threat to the public.

I wonder if these kinds of civil lawsuits could also help with getting information through depositions, information that might be useful to the prosecutors in both the state and federal cases.

yep. I could really see this.

 

[caradana]

Let’s consider potential juror ego, too - just one juror could deadlock this future jury. It would only take one individual who felt the need to make a point (and could probably write a book after that). Voir dire is going to be INTENSE for this trial (“have you ever had a bad experience with health insurance?” … find me someone who says no to that!)

 

[NuttMegg]

If LM does have the kind of money that a person would need to pay attorneys from the law firm of Agnifilo Intrater LLP, the firm that is also representing Sean "Diddy" Combs, then I wonder if Brian Thompson's family would consider filing a civil lawsuit against LM to get some justice for Brian. Brian's family could donate any award received to the charity of their choice.

Also, I wonder if Brian Thompson's family could file a civil lawsuit against LM's family, given the mother's statement that she believed that LM could do something like murder Brian Thompson and it wasn't reported to the authorities that not only was he missing, but he could be a threat to the public.

I wonder if these kinds of civil lawsuits could also help with getting information through depositions, information that might be useful to the prosecutors in both the state and federal cases.

He's 26, not 16. And we don't know what, if anything she told LE. There has been nothing released with quotes, there has been nothing released to verify who she supposedly said these vague words to. It was that guy Kenny at the pressor who got things all mixed up when he said specifically that they "called the mother in San Francisco". Really? She was in San Francisco? Kenny is the one who related her supposed words.

 

[NuttMegg]

Let’s consider potential juror ego, too - just one juror could deadlock this future jury. It would only take one individual who felt the need to make a point (and could probably write a book after that). Voir dire is going to be INTENSE for this trial (“have you ever had a bad experience with health insurance?” … find me someone who says no to that!)

Yes, the only group that I can think of will all be under 26.

 

[NuttMegg]

Right. It will take a massive effort, and the insurance lobby will heavily oppose it.

However, after BT was killed, Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield reversed its decision to implement limited payment on anesthesia based on the amount of time it thought a surgery should take.

Was that decision related? Almost certainly, although BCBS was under a lot of pressure over that decision.

The fact LM was privileged probably weighs more in his favor (with his supporters) than against him because they will see it as he had more to lose than the average guy--and he did it for them. MOO

The more I read about it -- the more I think LM carried out this killing strictly for himself, with no altruistic concerns. I think he was angry at the pain he'd suffered and may suffer for the rest of his life, and he wanted someone to pay for that.

But a large segment of society is standing behind him, thinking he sacrificed his freedom for their well-being. We do have some political entities, like Chris Murphy, the US Senator from Connecticut, who are already calling for changes.

However, all that could simmer on a backburner unless we see some copycat crimes, in which case it might have a bigger effect. Eventually, I think we'll see big changes in the insurance industry--there's another thread here on WS about insurance stories--but that will likely be the result of outcry against the insurers more than LM's killing of BT.

All just MOO.

I haven't seen many people of that age with well thought-out altruistic life plans. At that age they have minimal experience with who pays for what.

I am most curious about with whom he was bouncing ideas back and forth during his gone missing period. Not that it would change his own case, his own guilt, just who affected, or reinforced his own seeming "throw my life away" action.

 

[GRT]

Let’s consider potential juror ego, too - just one juror could deadlock this future jury. It would only take one individual who felt the need to make a point (and could probably write a book after that). Voir dire is going to be INTENSE for this trial (“have you ever had a bad experience with health insurance?” … find me someone who says no to that!)

Really good points!

 

[detective.moon]

i can see LM taking a plea deal, but i imagine he would struggle to accept a mental health defense. if his whole idea was to send a message, a mental health defense diminishes that whole message!

the unabomber, in a similar position, felt like an insanity plea was like flushing his life work as he called it through the toilet

 

[LaborDayRN]

That had to have been on accident, right?
Surely LM and his attorney weren't cosplaying as two middle school girls going to a high school football game with the matching outfits.

I personally can't see how in the world that could have been an accident! This whole case is turning into a circus!

 

[LaborDayRN]

The Post is already referring to him as Court Jester, “grinning Mangione yuks it up in court”. Yes there are photos of him smiling.

It's all fun and games until he gets his three hots and a cot........

 

[sas0807]

I personally can't see how in the world that could have been an accident! This whole case is turning into a circus!

Planning matching outfits is so unserious lol

 

[Jinkasaurus]

i can see LM taking a plea deal, but i imagine he would struggle to accept a mental health defense. if his whole idea was to send a message, a mental health defense diminishes that whole message!

the unabomber, in a similar position, felt like an insanity plea was like flushing his life work as he called it through the toilet

This is what I've been thinking as well.

LM has truly painted himself into a corner. If he wants people to support his cause, then he has to stand by his cause. If he wants to avoid prison, he has to denounce his actions and/or blame them on mental health disturbance. In which case, he's admitting his beliefs have an invalid basis.

As an engineering student, he would be well-versed in the importance of logic and rationality in decision-making. He must feel deeply conflicted at this point, as there is no logical way out of the mess he created for himself.

 

[Sundog]

He's 26, not 16. And we don't know what, if anything she told LE. There has been nothing released with quotes, there has been nothing released to verify who she supposedly said these vague words to. It was that guy Kenny at the pressor who got things all mixed up when he said specifically that they "called the mother in San Francisco". Really? She was in San Francisco? Kenny is the one who related her supposed words.

It doesn't matter what age he is. If a close family member knew or suspected that he could be a danger to society then they should have reported it and warned LE and shared with them whatever they knew or suspected. Did they know he had gone off the deep end about the health care industry? Did the family fear him because he was acting strangely and they felt they could be in danger, too? This is all hypothetical, of course, but questions could be asked during depositions.

 

[NuttMegg]

It doesn't matter what age he is. If a close family member knew or suspected that he could be a danger to society then they should have reported it and warned LE and shared with them whatever they knew or suspected. Did they know he had gone off the deep end about the health care industry? Did the family fear him because he was acting strangely and they felt they could be in danger, too? This is all hypothetical, of course, but questions could be asked during depositions.

I'd like to hear what she really said, if not possible then a quote from the person she said it to.
We're not so far apart, just that I am way off the graph cynical.

 

[angelainwi]

It doesn't matter what age he is. If a close family member knew or suspected that he could be a danger to society then they should have reported it and warned LE and shared with them whatever they knew or suspected. Did they know he had gone off the deep end about the health care industry? Did the family fear him because he was acting strangely and they felt they could be in danger, too? This is all hypothetical, of course, but questions could be asked during depositions.

Unfortunately even if you warn police there is not much they can do. I have had to make these calls as part of my profession and making these calls often triggers the person even more and can endanger the family if they think that is who called.

 

[DizzyB]

Yes, the only group that I can think of will all be under 26.

Has anyone taken a look into employee benefits for TrueCar? Glassdoor said paid medical (not sure if I can trust that as a source), and a wellness fund that pays for gym memberships. I bet Luigi thought that was a great perk. If most of their employees are young, I bet the company got a great health insurance rate. Old people with issues drive up premium.

 

[Arkay]

Planning matching outfits is so unserious lol

Truly. We know the courtroom is theater and therefore the defense typically dresses up the client to look presentable.

This is unique though—-mommy, daddy and their boy. Like the Von Trapps or something, wearing their uniforms of togetherness.

This is what I've been thinking as well.

LM has truly painted himself into a corner. If he wants people to support his cause, then he has to stand by his cause. If he wants to avoid prison, he has to denounce his actions and/or blame them on mental health disturbance. In which case, he's admitting his beliefs have an invalid basis.

As an engineering student, he would be well-versed in the importance of logic and rationality in decision-making. He must feel deeply conflicted at this point, as there is no logical way out of the mess he created for himself.

Oh, agree.

To be a proud vigilante seeking frontier justice, undergirded by his rant at LE when he was arrested (“this arrest insults American intelligence,” etc.), to have to do an abrupt about- face and claim to have been out of his right mind would mean he was just another sick nobody.

He’s living now off his Big Man on Campus reputation morphing into the Superman who will fix the country’s health woes. I think he has too much pride to drop the mantles he’s wearing—those of hero and martyr.

Time will tell if he puts his own self-preservation first. I think he will but really, who knows? It’s early days yet.

JMO

 

[otto]

It doesn't matter what age he is. If a close family member knew or suspected that he could be a danger to society then they should have reported it and warned LE and shared with them whatever they knew or suspected. Did they know he had gone off the deep end about the health care industry? Did the family fear him because he was acting strangely and they felt they could be in danger, too? This is all hypothetical, of course, but questions could be asked during depositions.

Family are not health professionals. They may have noticed that Luigi had distorted thinking, but it's a big leap to go from noticing that someone is saying unusual things to believing and fearing that he or she will shoot a stranger in the back.

His family was concerned enough about his silence to report him missing, but the report was filed in the wrong city (SF). He lived in Hawaii 3-4 months prior to the shooting. I think family wanted a welfare check, and were probably as shocked as everyone else when they thought it might be Luigi.

"Kwock says that he lived next to Mangione in their building in Honolulu. He said he last saw his neighbor about three or four months ago."

Dec 11, 2024

Luigi Mangione's neighbor in Hawaii reacts

A Hawaii neighbor of Luigi Mangione's said he is shocked to find out he is the man suspecting of killing United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

kyma.com