NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #12 *Arrest*

[Angelcat13]

I hear what you're saying but the terrorism element is a very specific thing they need to prove.

Don't get me wrong because, yes, in all probability I'm sure he sees himself as some sort of savior/deity type chasing some narcissistic dream ending with him being covered in glory by changing the system but it's a difficult thing to prove.

If his defence takes the tack that ...yes, he hates all the corporate greed and corruption but accepts that he'll never change anything and wasn't setting out to but, rather, just decided to give these people what he felt they deserved... then does that meet the very specific criteria in the legislation? On the face of it, no, I don't think it does.

I agree with both of your posts. IMO I feel like it is a stretch to charge LM with terrorism. IMO any “stranger on stranger” assault and/or murder, unless done during the commission of another crime (i.e. a robbery) could be considered terrorism if defined broadly, as I feel they are trying to do here in LM’s case.

IIRC, someone in an earlier post here mentioned this as well, saying that it could then be considered “terrorism” if a man assaults a random woman that is a stranger to him as these types of attacks can cause “terror” in a specific population (women). This could be considered especially true when looking at serial rapists and/or killers. Yet have we ever seen one of these types of defendants ever charged with terrorism?

 

[Angelcat13]

Well, he's outlined "corruption and greed" in his manifesto, which are matters for government oversight and regulation.

Unless he can show somehow that killing the CEO was intended to put United Healthcare out of business, and solve those issues, or that he and his family had a personal grievance with United and/or suffered a personal loss, I think by elimination it comes down to terrorism.

IMO

I don’t know if I agree that “corruption and greed” are “matters for government oversight and regulation “. In an ideal world, maybe. But politicians/government are notorious for corruption and greed so expecting the government/politicians to oversee and regulate these issues is like expecting the fox to guard the henhouse.

I am not saying that anyone has a right to assault/kill someone because they believe their victim is corrupt/greedy, but someone also does not have the right to assault/kill someone because they are (these are just examples!) a woman, a man, too fat/skinny, have a certain color hair, cohabitate without marriage, drink/use drugs, are a prostitute, shoplifter or any number of other things someone could consider “offensive”.

The public reaction to LM’s alleged crime seems to highlight that there is a big problem in this country with health care, corporate greed in general and the widening gap between the haves and have nots. IMO the push to charge LM with terrorism, ESPECIALLY IF IT IS TRUE THAT HEALTH INSURANCE CEO’S HAVE BEEN PUSHING THE DOJ TO INCLUDE THIS CHARGE, seems to add fuel to the fire that “privileged” people’s lives are more valuable and should therefore be punishable to a higher degree.

 

[citygirl]

“Extreme emotional disturbance doesn’t require that the disturbance has happened instantaneously or even suddenly – that doesn’t mean there can’t be planning, that doesn’t mean there isn’t intelligence behind the act,” they said.

“He has one and only one viable defense and that is extreme emotional disturbance,” said Ron Kuby, a veteran criminal defense attorney whose practice focuses on civil rights.

“One version of extreme emotional disturbance is he just snapped, but the defense is broader than that and certainly covers the slow, bitter, corrosive wearing away of normal sentiments of right and wrong until it all collapses in pain,” Kuby explained.

‘Only one viable defense’: how might the CEO murder case play out in court?

Lawyers weigh suspect’s options to fight charge he murdered UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson

www.theguardian.com

Interesting article.

 

[al66pine]

Starting National Convo? FCOL.

“Extreme emotional disturbance doesn’t require that the disturbance has happened instantaneously or even suddenly – that doesn’t mean there can’t be planning, that doesn’t mean there isn’t intelligence behind the act,” they said.

“He has one and only one viable defense and that is extreme emotional disturbance,” said Ron Kuby, a veteran criminal defense attorney whose practice focuses on civil rights.

“One version of extreme emotional disturbance is he just snapped, but the defense is broader than that and certainly covers the slow, bitter, corrosive wearing away of normal sentiments of right and wrong until it all collapses in pain,” Kuby explained.

‘Only one viable defense’: how might the CEO murder case play out in court?

Lawyers weigh suspect’s options to fight charge he murdered UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson

www.theguardian.com

@imstilla.grandma As always, TYVM for posting w your link.

When MSM approaches def. atty's for comments, they tend to gin up stmts sympathetic to the def't. Okay, understandable.

But this atty, CREDITING LM w BEGINNING the national conversation???*

For Crying Out Loud. Like issues w health care/med ins. had not occurred to any one else? Never discussed? "Reform packages" never introduced at state or fed levels? Etc. Puh-leeze. jmo

BTW, not posting any opinion about health care or med ins. issues.
_______________________________

* The link quotes crim def attymKuby:
“All of his difficulties with the health insurance industry, all of his problems with them, everything that he knows and has read and has heard, the whole narrative comes in at the trial to show his state of mind.
“...(sbm) he can use his trial to further the national discussion that he began,” Kuby said. “You don’t have to sacrifice sound legal strategy for your political or social manifesto.”
"In a case like this, Kuby said, a defendant should take the stand so that his grievances are heard."

‘Only one viable defense’: how might the CEO murder case play out in court?

Lawyers weigh suspect’s options to fight charge he murdered UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson

www.theguardian.com

 

[girlhasnoname]

I hear what you're saying but the terrorism element is a very specific thing they need to prove.

Don't get me wrong because, yes, in all probability I'm sure he sees himself as some sort of savior/deity type chasing some narcissistic dream ending with him being covered in glory by changing the system but it's a difficult thing to prove.

If his defence takes the tack that ...yes, he hates all the corporate greed and corruption but accepts that he'll never change anything and wasn't setting out to but, rather, just decided to give these people what he felt they deserved... then does that meet the very specific criteria in the legislation? On the face of it, no, I don't think it does.

I don't find it a stretch when LM spoke about Greed and Capitalism and the "Parasites" having it coming. He appoints himself the one strong enough to take a stand against it and praises TK and his thought process.

LM appears to have decided to met out punishment by playing Judge, Jury, and Executioner in the murder of a random HealthCare CEO to make a point, targeting an Industry, which in turn sounds like terrorism to me.

It will be interesting to see if there were additional manifestos or ramblings from LM as the case develops. I'd still like to know where he was and who/if he had contact with in the months or weeks leading up to the murder.

JMO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

https://www.nycourts.gov/judges/cji/2-PenalLaw/125/AC.125.EED.pdf

The defense of extreme emotional disturbance in New York County: pleas and outcomes - PubMed

A number of studies have investigated the use of the insanity defense; however, there are few reports on the use of other types of psychiatric defenses. This study explored the use of the affirmative psychiatric defense of extreme emotional disturbance (EED) in New York County (one of the five...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[imstilla.grandma]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/07/health/health-care-reform-delay-deny-defend-author-conversation-partner/index.html

The Luigi Mangione effect may supercharge the need for security guards, which just made LinkedIn's fastest-growing jobs list for the first time

The growing cannabis industry, reduced police force, and RTO are driving demand for security guards. The CEO shooting could solidify its traction.

fortune.com

https://www.axios.com/2025/01/09/luigi-mangione-approval-poll-gen-z

 

[waldojabba]

Where is the father in this story about LM? He doesn't appear in any scene, afaik, although he is responsible just like the mother, if parents are responsible for their adult children.

@FromGermany1
Actually we do know a little after all

“Luigi Mangione is the son of Lou and Kathleen Mangione. Lou Mangione took over his father's real estate empire, including Hayfields and Turf Valley country clubs, the Lorien Health network of nursing homes and a local radio station. Those businesses all fall under the umbrella of Mangione Family Enterprises.

"It's kind of shocking, because I didn't know that. Yesterday, when I came back from lunch, they had the golf course out there blocked off, and they had security and everything. And I'm like, 'I wonder what's going on,'" Larry said.”

11 News examines Mangione family's ties to Baltimore

The Mangione name has some clout in the Baltimore area.

www.wbaltv.com

 

[FromGermany1]

@FromGermany1
Actually we do know a little after all

“Luigi Mangione is the son of Lou and Kathleen Mangione. Lou Mangione took over his father's real estate empire, including Hayfields and Turf Valley country clubs, the Lorien Health network of nursing homes and a local radio station. Those businesses all fall under the umbrella of Mangione Family Enterprises.

"It's kind of shocking, because I didn't know that. Yesterday, when I came back from lunch, they had the golf course out there blocked off, and they had security and everything. And I'm like, 'I wonder what's going on,'" Larry said.”

11 News examines Mangione family's ties to Baltimore

The Mangione name has some clout in the Baltimore area.

www.wbaltv.com

I'm thinking about, whether LM sees his family imperium of nursing homes (Lorien Health network) as completely unburdened by "greed and Capitalismus". Though I don't know enough about the system/s (not even in my own homeland GER).

 

[Sundog]

I'm thinking about, whether LM sees his family imperium of nursing homes (Lorien Health network) as completely unburdened by "greed and Capitalismus". Though I don't know enough about the system/s (not even in my own homeland GER).

I also wonder if LM was sticking it to his father and his own family by singling out the health care industry as the target of his anti-capitalism and murderous desires.

 

[Trino]

• Legal experts are now warning that it may be difficult for accused killer Luigi Mangione to receive a fair trial—as online support could result in "jury nullification," where some may opt to vote to acquit, even if the evidence of his guilt may seem overwhelming.

Social Media 'Sympathy' For Luigi Mangione Risks Jury Nullification

The U.S. legal system is built on the foundation of "innocent until proven guilty," while everyone is entitled to a fair trial. Social media can be tipping the scales

www.forbes.com

 

[stanerd]

• Legal experts are now warning that it may be difficult for accused killer Luigi Mangione to receive a fair trial—as online support could result in "jury nullification," where some may opt to vote to acquit, even if the evidence of his guilt may seem overwhelming.

IMO that's hogwash. Most normal people don't consider LM a hero. I personally don't know anyone who sees him as anything but a cold blooded killer.

 

[OneLove]

I also wonder if LM was sticking it to his father and his own family by singling out the health care industry as the target of his anti-capitalism and murderous desires.

I wondered this also, especially as he seems to have cut off communication with his family shortly after his grandmother's death after which possibly an inherited trust fund may have become more fully funded and allowed him to be financially independent.

 

[justpeachy22]

I also wonder if LM was sticking it to his father and his own family by singling out the health care industry as the target of his anti-capitalism and murderous desires.

I don't think so. I think he was simply radicalized by online content, ie the deep dark web, and thought he was doing us all a service to knock out the ceo. I don't think he thought as deeply as wanting to stick it to his dad. I'd love to know, however, if his dad or family had a beef with the healthcare industry themselves. I would guess no.

 

[poppyquiche]

...I don't know what's going to happen with this case, I just know that from beginning to end it's going to be grim and the whole thing makes me want to cry. A crime that doesn't fix a broken system and a person who should ABSOLUTELY go to prison for a VERY VERY LONG TIME who will become a scapegoat for a lot of certain kinds of people.

Nobody wins, and nobody's getting more fair or reasonable healthcare out of this. AND people who just sincerely WANT a change and find the sorts of people who profit off of the suffering of others abhorrent being drowned out because of this idiot who wanted to play God.

 

[Sundog]

I don't think so. I think he was simply radicalized by online content, ie the deep dark web, and thought he was doing us all a service to knock out the ceo. I don't think he thought as deeply as wanting to stick it to his dad. I'd love to know, however, if his dad or family had a beef with the healthcare industry themselves. I would guess no.

But he had to know it would hurt them as they work within the health care industry. And apparently, he didn't care.

 

[Sundog]

...I don't know what's going to happen with this case, I just know that from beginning to end it's going to be grim and the whole thing makes me want to cry. A crime that doesn't fix a broken system and a person who should ABSOLUTELY go to prison for a VERY VERY LONG TIME who will become a scapegoat for a lot of certain kinds of people.

Nobody wins, and nobody's getting more fair or reasonable healthcare out of this. AND people who just sincerely WANT a change and find the sorts of people who profit off of the suffering of others abhorrent being drowned out because of this idiot who wanted to play God.

The fact that an innocent man was executed in cold blood by a narcissistic rich kid is what makes me want to cry. We all win, IMO, if LM is convicted and locked away for the rest of his life so he is no longer a danger to society.

 

[poppyquiche]

The fact that an innocent man was executed in cold blood by a narcissistic rich kid is what makes me want to cry. We all win, IMO, if LM is convicted and locked away for the rest of his life so he is no longer a danger to society.

Never said I didn't want him to go to prison. In fact I quite literally SAID he should go for a "VERY VERY LONG TIME". (I WORKED for an insurance company at one point in my life, but go off.)

Not touching anything beyond that. I am in total agreement that he should be prosecuted as appropriate and deal with the consequences of his horrible actions.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I'm thinking about, whether LM sees his family imperium of nursing homes (Lorien Health network) as completely unburdened by "greed and Capitalismus". Though I don't know enough about the system/s (not even in my own homeland GER).

Well, if the system in the US is anything like the system in the UK it'll be an absolute licence to print money!

It's the perfect example of capitalist greed, IMHO!

 

[Marantz4250b]

• Legal experts are now warning that it may be difficult for accused killer Luigi Mangione to receive a fair trial—as online support could result in "jury nullification," where some may opt to vote to acquit, even if the evidence of his guilt may seem overwhelming.

Social Media 'Sympathy' For Luigi Mangione Risks Jury Nullification

The U.S. legal system is built on the foundation of "innocent until proven guilty," while everyone is entitled to a fair trial. Social media can be tipping the scales

www.forbes.com

More clickbait nonsense!

The description isn't even correct. If "some" vote to acquit that's a hung jury, not a jury that returns a not guilty verdict in the face of clear evidence of guilt.