NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #8 *Arrest*

[Cryptic]

delete

 

[otto]

<modsnip - quoted post was a copy/paste of a paywalled article (copyright violation)>
He was seen jogging across the street after the murder, then cycling to and from the park. He can't be in that much pain if he's jogging and cycling.

 

[DizzyB]

@jonahowenlamb

For a deep dive into what Luigi Mangione was up to over the past year, read this:

View attachment 550663

Piecing together Luigi Mangione’s lost year

Earlier this year, Luigi Mangione disengaged. His mother filed a missing person report and friends pleaded with him to return their messages.

www.thebaltimorebanner.com

12/10/2024

I only got as far as the missing persons report before the paywall went up. His family had not heard from him since July? When was the supposed surgery? Were they worried about him for months, did they knew what was going on in his life? Not working? The report was filed in California-what was he doing there? Where was he living? Did he maintain the same phone number? Was there a falling out with the family-unless there was, you can bet I would worry if my kid stopped responding for months. None of this feels like the story.

 

[armchairthinker]

Sure, insurance sucks, maybe he had a botched surgery. Maybe it rendered him impotent. Maybe he suffered from intense pain that affected every aspect of his life. Maybe the company that Brian Thompson headed had unfair practices that should be illegal. You still don’t get to murder people.

Not sure I agree that 'insurance sucks'. I'm quite glad of mine!

 

[Vaderman]

What will be slightly amusing is if it turns out his “locked down” electronics were foiled by police catching him on his laptop so they will be privy to a lot more information than he originally thought.

JMO

I also have a feeling his electronics aren't quite as locked down as he'd like to think.

 

[Betty P]

I think this is an unusual case because for once, many of us find sympathy for the cause but of course not the act. Disliking the healthcare insurance world does not equate to wanting all its employees dead. I also don’t deny that decisions made in their boardrooms end and shorten life for millions of people. Again, that doesn’t mean they should die!!! But I think this case is generating a lot of feeling because it’s so unusual we have a murderer that we can even a tiny bit relate to - usually murders are about money, or sex, or a psychopathic enjoyment of hurting people, all things the average member of society abhors and can’t understand.

This is different because whilst he may not have represented what was good and pure in society, we all valued BT because he was a human being - someone’s dad, friend, colleague - and place such value on human life that there is almost no circumstance in which it becomes acceptable. (Self defence/defence of a loved one in a live, unmediated scenario being the only situations most of us would ever get close to seriously harming another human, let alone threatening their life.

LM does not sound like a psychopath, we haven’t heard that he liked arson or hurting animals, was a loner, etc or those early psychopathies. But something has radicalised him and that radicalisation has led to the otherisation and dark devaluation of people like BT, enabling LM to -take a life- to send a message. It’s grotesque, and as many others point out, LM had a thousand ways to counteract this societal ill as he saw it. Why? Does he enjoy power over others? Does he consider other humans lesser? (I suspect so). Did drugs or hallucinations or whatever mean he saw these things happen in his imagination lowering his moral repugnance for them actually happening?

I just have no idea what turns someone into a killer imho.

There was an expert (Former FBI) on CNN either last night or this morning who explained some of the possible processes that LM went through in order to make the choice to murder BT. He said it didn't appear that LM was the kind of person to murder or even harm others. Nothing in his background indicates that. When some people like him become radicalized and have a strong urge to remedy the wrongs in some way, they are usually reluctant to resort to murder. These are the kind of people who would normally never harm others, but one of the factors that usually tips the scale is validation. If the killer is trying to talk themselves into killing someone over a social cause, they usually do it if they feel there is some validation from others who have been harmed or believe in the cause. In this case, LM may have talked himself into it because there were (and are) so many people who are so tired of unfair abuse from the insurance industry. So many people who have been calling out for change and getting nowhere. The killer's feeling of validation is usually what tips the scale towards murder or other drastic action.

I tend to agree with this, considering LM had no criminal history, no record of bullying or abusing others. He may have done it because he thought it was the only option and that others would agree and be helped by his actions. Mental health problems were also a part of it.

 

[Parsnip]

If Luigi had shown the police his real ID, what would have happened? Would they have the ability to search his things? What if he didn’t have the gun, the fake IDs, the manifesto? Do they just say “thank you for your cooperation, you can go now”?

Excellent question! I suppose it depends on what was reported by the calling party. If Luigi knew that he had been reported missing by his mom, he might not have wanted to use his true ID.

 

[soap mama]

Sure, insurance sucks, maybe he had a botched surgery. Maybe it rendered him impotent. Maybe he suffered from intense pain that affected every aspect of his life. Maybe the company that Brian Thompson headed had unfair practices that should be illegal. You still don’t get to murder people.

THIS ^^^

 

[elisimo]

Friends of the 26-year-old charged with killing the chief executive of UnitedHealthcare have said he was dealing with back issues that led to sometimes debilitating pain.

The idea that a back injury might disrupt a young man’s life is no surprise to doctors who treat people in pain every day.

“Their lives are just kind of turned upside down,” said Dr. Jacob Joseph, a neurosurgeon at University of Michigan Health specializing in spine injuries.

Roughly 16 million adults in the United States experience persistent back pain that gets in the way of daily activities. Back pain is among the most common medical problems in the country. It is also the leading cause of disability worldwide, according to the World Health Organization.

The suspect in the killing, Luigi Mangione, posted multiple times in a Reddit community dedicated to discussions about spondylolisthesis, a sometimes painful condition that occurs when a vertebra in the spine slips out of alignment. He wrote that his “spondy went bad” when he was 23 and said he had undergone spinal fusion surgery in July 2023. He also described other ongoing health issues, including brain fog.

Experts interviewed for this story spoke only broadly about back pain. The current status of Mr. Mangione’s health, including his back issues, is not clear.

Beth Darnall, a professor of anesthesiology and perioperative and pain medicine at Stanford University School of Medicine, said that back pain can affect every aspect of a person’s life: emotional well-being, sleep, work, social life and the ability to complete household chores. Even just sitting in a chair can be a struggle for someone with back pain.

“Stuff that we do that almost doesn’t even register in our mind for most people becomes like a battle,” said Dr. Joseph.

That impairment can be isolating, experts said. One friend told The New York Times that Mr. Mangione had felt that he could not date because of his back pain.

“Even the most basic things — if someone is having trouble just moving and doing everyday activities, they’re really going to be limited in engaging socially,” said Sara J.T. Guilcher, an associate professor at the University of Toronto who specializes in spinal cord injury and pain research. Even if they are able to spend time with other people, patients can be “in so much pain that they’re not able to be present” and enjoy interacting with others, Dr. Guilcher said.

That may be one reason so many people with back pain struggle with their mental health. People with back pain report disproportionately high levels of depression and distress, compared with the general population.

“There’s so much interplay” between mental health, brain health and the physical impairment that can come with back pain, Dr. Guilcher said.

While there are treatments for back pain, they don’t always work for every patient. For some people, the pain can persist for so long that patients feel a “creeping hopelessness” that it will never get better, Dr. Joseph said.

“People can hear really pejorative types of statements like, ‘Pain’s all in your head’ or ‘It’s not real,’” Dr. Darnall said. “Well, of course pain is real.”

Doctors treat back pain using a variety of methods, including physical therapy and medications. “It’s rarely addressed with just one type of an approach,” Dr. Darnall said.

Providers sometimes deliver steroid injections to help minimize discomfort. Patients with certain spinal injuries might undergo surgery to decompress nerves or stabilize the spine. People may also turn to treatments like chiropractic care, massage or electro-acupuncture, which some studies have suggested can provide modest relief from chronic back pain.

However, some of the treatments themselves, including painkillers and surgery, can exacerbate back pain, said Dr. Wellington Hsu, an orthopedic spine surgeon at Northwestern Medicine.

“It’s very difficult to predict how someone will react to having surgery, and having trauma to your back as a result of surgery can sometimes lead to even worse pain,” he said.

The Debilitating Toll of Back Pain

The suspect charged with killing the chief executive of UnitedHealthcare was said to have back issues, one of the most common medical problems nationwide.

www.nytimes.com

The American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons has advocated limiting the use of opioids for back issues because the drugs can be addictive and may be no more effective than over-the-counter medicines in certain circumstances. One study found that the use of opioids did not significantly affect how much moderate to severe chronic back pain interfered with participants’ daily life over the course of a year.

To help patients cope with the emotional aspects of back pain, doctors also sometimes recommend therapy.

“People with chronic pain can experience better quality of life,” Dr. Guilcher said. “But they need the appropriate support.”

Totally possible he was using other means of pain relief. In those predisposed to psychosis or schizophrenia, marijuana can trigger an episode.

 

[m00c0w]

If Luigi had shown the police his real ID, what would have happened? Would they have the ability to search his things? What if he didn’t have the gun, the fake IDs, the manifesto? Do they just say “thank you for your cooperation, you can go now”?

They’d have had reasonable articulable suspicion to conduct what is essentially a terry stop. They’d be within their rights to ask him to pull his mask down. If they believed he matched the photos of the subject from New York, they would likely have probable cause to arrest the person combined with other factors (like wearing similar clothing, if he said he was recently in NYC, etc). After he’s arrested, they’d be able to fully search him and his belongings, leading to finding everything they found.

The fake ID made it a lot more solid, though, and he’s not nearly as smart as he thinks he is because his attorney might have been able to challenge probable cause and subsequent arrest and search based only on his appearance. Instead, they have two pretty straightforward crimes that open the door for everything that came after.

JMO

 

[BUF]

Reporter on ABC Nightly News that was in court today said that LM’s lawyer has said his office has been inundated with people wanting to pay his legal bills

 

[x_files]

With respect, pain cannot be seen. Its invisible. Ask anyone with chronic pain.

THANK YOU!
I had employers yell at me while having migraine attacks because they couldn't believe a headache could make me vomit and spin. They couldn't see my pain, but others who paid close attention could. There are lots of invisible disabilities.

 

[Florida_marlin]

The prosecution should consider selecting older people who have Medicare ..I dont
Hear many complaints about Medicare---

Yea I know. Really looking forward to giving up work sponsored insurance for Medicare. I’m sure it will be a hoot.

 

[pseudo_hum]

Agreed. If the prosecution lays out a solid case, even someone who hates the insurance industry should have a hard time acquitting.

Agreed. IMO, use it as a mitigating circumstance during sentencing, but he is guilty of aiming the gun and pulling the trigger.

 

[citygirl]

Just jumping off of this:

I mean, I absolutely hate my health insurance company, and it would be entirely irrelevant to me if I was sitting on that jury. The question is, did this man shoot and kill BT? That's it. Cut and dry. Black and white.

This isn't some self defense case where a jury could go either way, something we've seen a lot in recent years.

This was a cold blooded murder of a father of two boys.

The internet is not real life, and what we're seeing is a very loud group of people who are seeking attention. Are some of them horrible enough people that they do believe what they are saying? Undoubtedly. But it's nowhere near the percentage of the population that it appears to be.

I agree. He needs to pay the consequences for his heinous act.
Where I think we differ is that I think he’s a very sick boy.
I have tremendous empathy for his family. And my heart aches for him. His mind has been reeling, off and on, until his break. He just couldn’t help himself.
MOO.

 

[sas0807]

Reporter on ABC Nightly News that was in court today said that LM’s lawyer has said his office has been inundated with people wanting to pay his legal bills

Why?...It's not like he's strapped for cash. People are so dumb

 

[MollyHarps]

Just caught up on the thread - he looked extremely angry going into court (probably saw it as his chance to get more media coverage and his perceived reasons for committing the murder out In the open)

I find it so strange that in court the thing that he keeps trying to correct the record on is the amount of money le are saying he was carrying - Luigi I think that’s the least of your problems right now.

I think the media and LE have to be extremely careful how they play this case out - he has a fair bit of fanfare on social media you don’t want somebody else deciding they’ll do a similar crime against a CEO to get the same fanfare.

 

[MollyHarps]

Also my thoughts go out to the McDonalds worker who reported him to the police - I hope she’s doing okay.

I really hope she gets the reward money as she’s unlikely going to be able to go into work at the minute due to potential threats.

 

[Vaderman]

Reporter on ABC Nightly News that was in court today said that LM’s lawyer has said his office has been inundated with people wanting to pay his legal bills

I do believe he lit the powder keg. I worry about the copycats that may arise from this.

 

[Parsnip]

find it so strange that in court the thing that he keeps trying to correct the record on is the amount of money le are saying he was carrying

It could be that he is fighting the no bond. (I am not an escape risk! Idk where that money came from! It was planted!) But I think you’re right…it means something to him that he has to remove himself from the cash he was found with. Moo.