Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #12

[Stella123]

The whole thing is really quite scary now. I have visions of a fictional story, about World War III between Russia and the US on one side and Europe on the other side.

US people threatening to leave Nato because Norwegion company refused to fuel a sub. A sub that is protecting. Talk about removing all US aircraft and personnel from Europe (that would save some money).

Just saw a video where Putin is saying Russia has more mineral resources than Ukraine and he is happy to do a deal with the US over mineral rights. See the manipulation?

It's chaos!

JMO MOO

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

A common criticism of Volodymyr Zelensky’s disastrous Friday performance in the Oval Office is that he failed to read the room.

Actually, the Ukrainian president did read a room — but it was the wrong room.

Before meeting Trump, Zelensky met with anti-Trump Democrats who advised him to reject the terms of the mineral deal the president was offering, according to Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.).

“Just finished a meeting with President Zelensky here in Washington. He confirmed that the Ukrainian people will not support a fake peace agreement where Putin gets everything he wants and there are no security arrangements for Ukraine,” Murphy’s office posted on X at 11:15 a.m. Friday.

He attached a picture of Zelensky at a conference table, with Murphy seated on the opposite side.

Disaster in the Oval Office: Dems lead Zelensky, Ukraine off a cliff with pressure to reject mineral deal

Before meeting Trump, Zelensky met with anti-Trump Democrats who advised him to reject the terms of the mineral deal the president was offering, according to Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn).

nypost.com

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

It's a company, not the country, who made this decision.
And other companies may follow, in other countries that have ports that our ships and subs pull into.
There are no US Navy assets if there is no fuel to be had at those overseas ports.
IMO.

That’s what you call “cutting one’s nose off to spite one’s face”. Stupid! imo

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN HAT OFF !! Yeah, we get to chime in at times.

President Zelensky wants security, freedom, democracy for his country. IMO it is extortion ... no country should ever have to agree to give up their valuable mineral assets for basic human rights with no security guaranteed in exchange. Zelensky was even prepared to do so to end a war and have his country returned to peaceful existence but neither the USA or Russia was prepared to include security as part of that deal.

Zelensky, any country's leader, would be stupid and irresponsible to give away their country's valuable resources with no guarantee of anything in return.

JMO

 

[branmuffin]

23 out of 32 NATO countries now meet or exceed the 2% GDP defense spending target, not just the U.S. and Poland.

This isn’t money paid to NATO; it’s what each country invests in its own military. The idea that Poland would somehow be left footing the bill is just misinformation.

Also, NATO as an organization has a separate budget for operations, and the U.S. pays about 16% of that, not the majority. NATO wouldn’t just collapse financially if the U.S. left, it would be weakened, but European countries already outspend Russia on defense.

Imo

Source:NATO Official Site

I hope Zelenskyy will not argue with Starmer if he or other leaders don't give him everything he wants immediately.

I have my doubts that he is capable of doing that. JMO.

The boor won't be present so I think he'll be okay.

 

[STAGNUM]

No I'm totally serious about that.

Zelenskyy doesn't trust Putin at all so maybe that feeling is preventing him from wanting to use diplomacy to end the war. He sure made that clear during the PC.

He needs to put his emotions aside and try to do the right things to save his country. In other words he needs to stop being a big baby. JMO.

"He needs to put his emotions aside and try to do the right things to save his country. In other words he needs to stop being a big baby."

trump yes. Zelenskyy no, he was the only adult at the meeting.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

President Biden had problems with Zelenskyy last year.

Biden had barely finished telling Zelenskyy he’d just greenlighted another $1 billion in U.S. military assistance for Ukraine when Zelenskyy started listing all the additional help he needed and wasn’t getting. Biden lost his temper, the people familiar with the call said.

The American people were being quite generous, and his administration and the U.S. military were working hard to help Ukraine, he said, raising his voice, and Zelenskyy could show a little more gratitude.

Sounds very familiar. The guy just doesn't get it.

Biden lost his temper on a call with Zelenskyy when Ukraine's leader asked for more aid

Biden had barely finished telling Zelenskyy he’d just greenlighted another $1 billion in military assistance when the Ukrainian president started listing all the additional help he needed.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The boor won't be present so I think he'll be okay.

I don't now what a "boor" is.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

"He needs to put his emotions aside and try to do the right things to save his country. In other words he needs to stop being a big baby."

trump yes. Zelenskyy no, he was the only adult at the meeting.

Zelenskyy has no respect for the American people. See my post where he pissed off President Biden with his ungratefulness. JMO.

 

[STAGNUM]

A common criticism of Volodymyr Zelensky’s disastrous Friday performance in the Oval Office is that he failed to read the room.

Actually, the Ukrainian president did read a room — but it was the wrong room.

Before meeting Trump, Zelensky met with anti-Trump Democrats who advised him to reject the terms of the mineral deal the president was offering, according to Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.).

“Just finished a meeting with President Zelensky here in Washington. He confirmed that the Ukrainian people will not support a fake peace agreement where Putin gets everything he wants and there are no security arrangements for Ukraine,” Murphy’s office posted on X at 11:15 a.m. Friday.

He attached a picture of Zelensky at a conference table, with Murphy seated on the opposite side.

Disaster in the Oval Office: Dems lead Zelensky, Ukraine off a cliff with pressure to reject mineral deal

Before meeting Trump, Zelensky met with anti-Trump Democrats who advised him to reject the terms of the mineral deal the president was offering, according to Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn).

nypost.com

Zelenskyy was wary of this deal long before flying over here. The deal was hammered out by Trump, Putin and the Saudi's. Frankly I would have a hard time trusting any of them. Moreover, why wasn't Zelenskyy at the table? He brought this up over a week ago. I was surprised during the meeting that for close to 40 minutes he was very eager to sit down and negotiate the deal. I say negotiate, because it was clear that provisions he spoke to trump about, the ongoing security to Ukraine, were perhaps yet unwritten. At about the 40 minute mark JD Vance spoils the discussion by hammering Zelenskyy on not being thankful. If you listen to the first 40 minutes he is very thankful and gracious. JD Vance trips a wire in Trump's lizard brain and the discussion becomes one of bullying Zelinskyy. That is where it all broke down. Trump and Vance blew the deal. Its like you are going to buy something huge and you realize the people you are dealing with are just plain awful. You walk, perhaps run.

 

[STAGNUM]

Zelenskyy has no respect for the American people. See my post where he pissed off President Biden with his ungratefulness. JMO.

Yeah right.. The problem was Biden. Biden was too adverse to giving Ukraine weapons that could reach beyond the border into Russia. Lets be frank, without such firepower, Ukraine will lose. He needs to harm Putin in a serious way. Was it a big ask? Consider that the US is too concerned about Ukraine joining NATO. If they block Ukraine from NATO, how will he succeed otherwise? So yeah Biden sucks on that..

 

[Deleted member 39678]

ADMIN HAT OFF !! Yeah, we get to chime in at times.

President Zelensky wants security, freedom, democracy for his country. IMO it is extortion ... no country should ever have to agree to give up their valuable mineral assets for basic human rights with no security guaranteed in exchange. Zelensky was even prepared to do so to end a war and have his country returned to peaceful existence but neither the USA or Russia was prepared to include security as part of that deal.

Zelensky, any country's leader, would be stupid and irresponsible to give away their country's valuable resources with no guarantee of anything in return.

JMO

The mineral deal is actually very good for Ukraine.

Partial security would come when partnering with the US on the minerals which would gives the US an interest in protecting it.

More security could be discussed with the US and other countries after signing the mineral deal. That's what was supposed to happen. Zelenskyy screwed that all up in the Oval Office. JMO.

I forgot to say that you should jump in any time you want. I love it.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

President Biden had problems with Zelenskyy last year.




Sounds very familiar. The guy just doesn't get it.

Biden lost his temper on a call with Zelenskyy when Ukraine's leader asked for more aid

Biden had barely finished telling Zelenskyy he’d just greenlighted another $1 billion in military assistance when the Ukrainian president started listing all the additional help he needed.

www.nbcnews.com

Well imagine that, familiar indeed.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Well imagine that, familiar indeed.

The guy sure doesn't learn his lesson. It would be laughable if not for the fact that he's letting his people die because of it. JMO.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I’m sorry, but he does not have a mandate. More people did not vote at all than voted for him. He won the popular vote but only by a margin of 1.5 points over Harris…that is not a mandate, no matter how many times he tries to say it is. FDR and Reagan won with numbers that gave them a mandate but DJT did not. Winning the popular vote is not a mandate, especially because he barely won the popular vote.

If he really wanted to negotiate a peace plan, he would tell Putin to withdraw completely from Ukraine and give assurance that they won’t attack again in the future. But he refuses to do that. He’s perfectly comfortable with fracturing alliances we’ve had for 80+ years, there’s nothing presidential about that (IMO)

I don't think that anyone telling Putin to withdraw from Ukraine will be successful. JMO.

 

[STAGNUM]

The mineral deal is actually very good for Ukraine.

Partial security would come when partnering with the US on the minerals which would gives the US an interest in protecting it.

More security could be discussed with the US and other countries after signing the mineral deal. That's what was supposed to happen. Zelenskyy screwed that all up in the Oval Office. JMO.

I forgot to say that you should jump in any time you want. I love it.

Primarily it is good for Trump. Notice that Trump repeatedly called Rare Earths, "Raw Earths". He has no understanding of the commodity. To mine them and refine them is very difficult, huge project. Just getting them out of the ground requires great effort, which is why it does not happen in the US (Those pesky environmentalists) . So there is no huge $500B payout right away. So no windfall, no demand, no reason to protect the Ukraine from another invasion. It is just wiping out a "war debt" in a journal so that Trump can score a Huuge win. Zelenskyy knows this. He is a very smart guy. What is in it for Putin? Well the Ukraine has been whipping his ass pretty good. Putin gets to regroup and plan his next attack. See how it works??

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Zelenskyy was wary of this deal long before flying over here. The deal was hammered out by Trump, Putin and the Saudi's. Frankly I would have a hard time trusting any of them. Moreover, why wasn't Zelenskyy at the table? He brought this up over a week ago. I was surprised during the meeting that for close to 40 minutes he was very eager to sit down and negotiate the deal. I say negotiate, because it was clear that provisions he spoke to trump about, the ongoing security to Ukraine, were perhaps yet unwritten. At about the 40 minute mark JD Vance spoils the discussion by hammering Zelenskyy on not being thankful. If you listen to the first 40 minutes he is very thankful and gracious. JD Vance trips a wire in Trump's lizard brain and the discussion becomes one of bullying Zelinskyy. That is where it all broke down. Trump and Vance blew the deal. Its like you are going to buy something huge and you realize the people you are dealing with are just plain awful. You walk, perhaps run.

If Zelenkyy was wary about the deal before flying to the US, why is saying he wants to sign it after the Oval Office disaster he made? Did he have some kind of revelation? JMO.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said he is ready to sign a stalled minerals deal with the United States in a thread on X on Saturday, in which he also urged the United States to stand strongly behind Ukraine amid its war with Russia, one day after his meeting with President Donald Trump and Vice President JD Vance devolved into a near-shouting match.

Zelenskyy Says He’s Ready To Sign Minerals Deal After White House Clash

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy posted a lengthy thread on X Saturday, stating he would sign the minerals deal, but said the Ukrainian people “need to know that America is on our side.”

www.forbes.com

 

[branmuffin]

Then maybe we can rally our allies to boycott the company. Moo ...

The only reason I could think that our US military ships would be in Norway is to protect our of our NATO allies. We certainly have no other reason to be there. They are only hurting and putting Norway and other countries at risk. So vindictive. Moo

What allies?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Primarily it is good for Trump. Notice that Trump repeatedly called Rare Earths, "Raw Earths". He has no understanding of the commodity. To mine them and refine them is very difficult, huge project. Just getting them out of the ground requires great effort, which is why it does not happen in the US (Those pesky environmentalists) . So there is no huge $500B payout right away. So no windfall, no demand, no reason to protect the Ukraine from another invasion. It is just wiping out a "war debt" in a journal so that Trump can score a Huuge win. Zelenskyy knows this. He is a very smart guy. What is in it for Putin? Well the Ukraine has been whipping his *advertiser censored* pretty good. Putin gets to regroup and plan his next attack. See how it works??

The signing of mineral deal would be a great victory for President Trump in his valiant efforts to stop this war and all of the deaths that are happening.

I applaud that wholeheartedly and with pride for America. JMO.

 

[PommyMommy]

These are the indicative estimates of Russia’s combat losses as of Mar. 2, according to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1896099833594904650

Forbes: Ukraine retakes Toretsk weeks after Russia’s “victory”

Ukrainian forces are advancing on key frontlines, notably in Toretsk, where they pushed back Russian troops soon after the Kremlin claimed victory in the strategic Donetsk town.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1896108262010847300