Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #12

[Simply Southern]

Maybe you half-read the post. It is a recent Russian business offering, an "opportunity", during the recent private talks between Russia and the US.

The Bloomberg link (ref 21) speaks of the 'business opportunities':

• a joint US-Russia mission to Mars, involving Musk also
• Putin offering to work with the US to mine Russian rare earth metals
• to sell 2 million tons of aluminium to the US if the US lifts sanctions
• Russia and the US forming a joint venture for aluminium production in Siberia

(Link in my previous post)

Yeah, but I haven't seen any validation of these remarks. The private talks are being held by a negotiation team. I do know that SOS Marco Rubio, Steven Witkoff ( negotiated released of an American teacher being held in Russia), Mike Waltz and others met trying to reestablish communications. I think this is a very tight, closed mouth group. I would be very surprised if any information leaked out. No mention of the Russian offers. That's not to say that Russia isn't offering that up as bargaining power. That certainly does not mean that the United States would enter into an agreement.
Moo...

 

[LibraStarr]

I understand the concern about sending U.S. troops, but as far as I can see, there hasn’t been any clear request from Zelensky specifically asking for U.S. boots on the ground. He’s repeatedly emphasized the need for military aid, particularly weapons, intelligence, and air defense, but not U.S. ground troops. In fact, Zelenskyy has made statements about seeking support, but he’s been clear that he’s asking for defensive assistance, not direct combat involvement.

If you have a source or statement from Zelenskyy that explicitly requests U.S. troops on the ground, I’d really appreciate it if you could share it. I’ve looked through various news sources and official statements, and I haven’t come across any indication that this is something Ukraine is directly asking for at the moment.

 

[MrsWatson]

Speaker Johnson says Zelenskyy may have to resign after fiery Oval Office meeting

The House speaker said Zelenskyy “needs to come to his senses and come back to the table in gratitude or someone else needs to lead the country to do that.”

www.nbcnews.com

Perhaps Putin should resign, since he provoked the war.

MOO

 

[Marysmith]

I understand the concern about sending U.S. troops, but as far as I can see, there hasn’t been any clear request from Zelensky specifically asking for U.S. boots on the ground. He’s repeatedly emphasized the need for military aid, particularly weapons, intelligence, and air defense, but not U.S. ground troops. In fact, Zelenskyy has made statements about seeking support, but he’s been clear that he’s asking for defensive assistance, not direct combat involvement.

If you have a source or statement from Zelenskyy that explicitly requests U.S. troops on the ground, I’d really appreciate it if you could share it. I’ve looked through various news sources and official statements, and I haven’t come across any indication that this is something Ukraine is directly asking for at the moment.

Thank you. This keeps getting mentioned as a fact...

 

[Simply Southern]

Zelenskyy isn’t asking for US troops, just military aid (intelligence, equipment) to defend Ukraine from Russia. It’s about helping Ukraine protect itself, not dragging the US into a war. As for taxpayer dollars, it’s not just charity; this is a strategic investment. A stable Ukraine keeps Russia in check, which benefits US security. The minerals deal could also help reduce dependence on China for critical tech resources, which is a win for both the US and Ukraine. It’s more complex than just sending money with no return.

MOO

We have helped them I've posted numerous charts. We've given more than any single country. European countries consisting of 27 have given slightly more than we have combined.

We offered a deal. He didn't want it he wants to continue fighting. He wants land returns to 1996, he wants all the Russian assets that are Frozen, and he specifically stated air support, additional funding, intelligence, and troops on the ground.

I agree, a stable, prosperous Ukraine benefits the entire world. I'd love for bread prices to go down to pre war prices. The US is one of the largest importers Ukraine has. We're supporting them, but he wants more and more and more and no end to the war in sight. He's down to 26 million citizens. He cannot last much longer without additional bodies to fight on the front line.

My heart breaks for the citizens of Ukraine, for the mothers, the sisters. the brothers for those murdered. I'm praying for the children that were stolen. You never hear Zelensky mention trying to negotiate a deal to retrieve the children. I can't imagine if I'm a mother of one of these children. I would be insane.

Moo...

 

[LibraStarr]

We offered a deal. He didn't want it he wants to continue fighting. He wants laying returns to 1996, he wants all the Russian assets that a Frozen, they want and he specifically stated this air support, additional funding, intelligence, and troops on the ground.

Again, could you kindly link to a source to support this. As I mentioned, I have looked and I can’t find a statement or direct quote that states the above.

It’s a fact that he wants funding, air support, and intelligence but the rest?

 

[Marysmith]

We have helped them I've posted numerous charts. We've given more than any single country. European countries consisting of 27 have given slightly more than we have combined.

We offered a deal. He didn't want it he wants to continue fighting. He wants land returns to 1996, he wants all the Russian assets that are Frozen, and he specifically stated air support, additional funding, intelligence, and troops on the ground.

I agree, a stable, prosperous Ukraine benefits the entire world. I'd love for bread prices to go down to pre war prices. The US is one of the largest importers Ukraine has. We're supporting them, but he wants more and more and more and no end to the war in sight. He's down to 26 million citizens. He cannot last much longer without additional bodies to fight on the front line.

My heart breaks for the citizens of Ukraine, for the mothers, the sisters. the brothers for those murdered. I'm praying for the children that were stolen. You never hear Zelensky mention trying to negotiate a deal to retrieve the children. I can't imagine if I'm a mother of one of these children. I would be insane.

Moo...

You are not responding to what was being said. You keep saying that the US won't give troops but that is not being requested. He has mentioned the children multiple times. You should try alternate news sources than just listening to MAGA approved sources because they are very biased.

 

[otto]

I understand the concern about sending U.S. troops, but as far as I can see, there hasn’t been any clear request from Zelensky specifically asking for U.S. boots on the ground. He’s repeatedly emphasized the need for military aid, particularly weapons, intelligence, and air defense, but not U.S. ground troops. In fact, Zelenskyy has made statements about seeking support, but he’s been clear that he’s asking for defensive assistance, not direct combat involvement.

If you have a source or statement from Zelenskyy that explicitly requests U.S. troops on the ground, I’d really appreciate it if you could share it. I’ve looked through various news sources and official statements, and I haven’t come across any indication that this is something Ukraine is directly asking for at the moment.

I think the USA plan is to invite Russians into Ukraine to extract natural resources, to run the government, and to seize control of public and private assets. If Zelenskyy did not demand that the USA personally work in Ukraine and protect the Ukraine border, he would be a fool.

The USA reconstruction investment agreement is such a fishy agreement! Ukraine and USA will each contribute 50% to the fund, but the USA will control the fund, control decision making, and the USA will control investment to monetize all public and private assets.

My first thought is that the USA wants full control over the Ukraine government, and will then invite Russia to control all Ukraine assets through investment. This is the USA trying to force Ukraine to capitulate and allow the USA and Russia to own Ukraine. That is, Russia will control the people while the USA steals all natural resources in perpetuity.

"BILATERAL AGREEMENT ESTABLISHING TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR A RECONSTRUCTION INVESTMENT FUND
NOW, THEREFORE, the Government of the United States of America and the Government of Ukraine (each, a “Participant”) hereby enter into this Bilateral Agreement Establishing Terms and Conditions for a Reconstruction Investment Fund to deepen the partnership between the United States of America and Ukraine, as set forth herein.
...

The Governments of Ukraine and the United States of America, with the aim of achieving lasting peace in Ukraine, intend to establish a Reconstruction Investment Fund (Fund), partnering in the Fund through joint ownership ... The maximum percentage of ownership of the Fund’s equity and financial interests to be held by the Government of the United States of America and the decision-making authority of the representatives of the Government of the United States of America
...

The Fund's investment process will be designed so as to invest in projects in Ukraine and attract investments to increase the development, processing and monetization of all public and private Ukrainian assets including, but not limited to, deposits of minerals, hydrocarbons, oil, natural gas, and other extractable materials, infrastructure, ports, and state-owned enterprises ..."

Exclusive: The full text of the US-Ukraine mineral deal

The Kyiv Independent has obtained from a source in the Ukrainian government, the full text of the mineral deal agreement between the U.S. and Ukraine.

kyivindependent.com

 

[Rolypolyoly]

We have helped them I've posted numerous charts. We've given more than any single country. European countries consisting of 27 have given slightly more than we have combined.

We offered a deal. He didn't want it he wants to continue fighting. He wants land returns to 1996, he wants all the Russian assets that are Frozen, and he specifically stated air support, additional funding, intelligence, and troops on the ground.

I agree, a stable, prosperous Ukraine benefits the entire world. I'd love for bread prices to go down to pre war prices. The US is one of the largest importers Ukraine has. We're supporting them, but he wants more and more and more and no end to the war in sight. He's down to 26 million citizens. He cannot last much longer without additional bodies to fight on the front line.

My heart breaks for the citizens of Ukraine, for the mothers, the sisters. the brothers for those murdered. I'm praying for the children that were stolen. You never hear Zelensky mention trying to negotiate a deal to retrieve the children. I can't imagine if I'm a mother of one of these children. I would be insane.

Moo...

It's been reported that he showed Trump images of some of these children, images that were allegedly too distressing to show the public, so yes, he has mentioned the stolen children. JMO

 

[Simply Southern]

31m ago12.27 GMT

'US and Ukraine should return to table,' Lithuanian president says after talks with Starmer, Baltic leaders​

Earlier today, UK prime minister Keir Starmer also met with representatives of the three Baltic states, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

Lithuanian president Gitanas Nausėda posted a readout from their meeting, saying “the US and Ukraine should return to the negotiation table, together with Europeans,” but also backing Tusk’s comments earlier on prioritising Nato’s eastern flank.

UK and France to work with Ukraine on peace plan, Starmer says, as European leaders arrive for defence summit – live

Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy to join European, Canadian and Turkish leaders for summit

www.theguardian.com

​

Europe will be keen to get Zelensky and Trump at the table again​

James Landale
Diplomatic correspondent

Today’s summit was planned before the infamous shouting match in the Oval Office. But the breakdown in relations between Ukraine and the United States will dominate.

The leaders are expected to make a very public show of support for President Zelensky.

The prime minister began that yesterday by giving him a warm hug in Downing Street and a £2.26bn loan to help him to buy more arms.

Zelensky will also meet the King later this afternoon.

Starmer will not want the summit to be seen as a rebuke to President Trump.

He says he wants it to focus on beefing up European defence spending and finding security guarantees for Ukraine. But discussions will inevitably look at ways – if possible – of getting Ukraine and the US talking again.

The prime minister and President Macron both spoke to Trump last night.

With the transatlantic alliance and the future of Ukraine in the balance, much is at stake.

Zelensky tells BBC Ukraine 'ready to sign' minerals deal with US

The Ukrainian president's comments to Laura Kuenssberg came after he failed to sign the deal at the White House on Friday.

www.bbc.co.uk

Per Secretary of the Treasury Bessent .... The deal is off the table. There is NO current offer. He sounded pretty firm. He's a man in authority, he's the authorized signature of the agreement for the US. He went to Ukraine, he's previously discussed the difficulties in dealing with Zelensky.

It is alarming they've only been able to come up with 2.6 dollars of aid and that's a LOAN. I was hoping other countries would come forth with military aid. I do know that there's been humanitarian aid and reconstruction aid, but NO other offer of Military aid.

I know spending runs out, I think around March 14th. I don't think the new budget reconciliation bill will have funding for continued military support. Not after the Oval Office incident and the existing cuts on the table. I think the plan was to do a "set aside" for the economic agreement. We had committed to matching $2 for every dollar of revenue generated (on the 50%) for business in the US brought in.

Moo....

 

[Simply Southern]

https://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=eccd2a60-6cbc-44d3-a3a5-15bc29c1386d&subId=755834#:~:text=After%20the%20large%2Dscale%20Russian,trucks%2C%20and%20armoured%20personnel%20carriers.

Respectfully, I'm not going to read that entire agreement digging for details. It's a simple yes or no. Is Australia willing to put boots on the ground in Ukraine, stand up against Putin? Moo

 

[otto]

Everyone should read the Reconstruction Agreement put forth by the USA! It's clear to me that the USA and Russia have a deal to hand Ukraine to Russia. It is pretty much stated in the agreement if we understand that Russians, not USA or Ukraine people, will be extracting resources for the USA ... when they get around to it.

Ukraine will put 50% of all financial wealth into a fund that is 100% controlled by the USA. The USA has the right to invite investment in Ukraine, meaning Russia will be invited to run the government, prisons, as well as all privately owned assets. Zelenskyy is wise to insist on border protection, and anyone who cannot see this is unable to understand the fickle agreement drafted by the USA government.

It's not surprising that Trump had a infantile shouting match meltdown when Zelenskyy stated what Ukraine needs in exchange. Trump thought he was showing off for Putin while he took advantage of Zelenskky.

 

[otto]

Per Secretary of the Treasury Bessent .... The deal is off the table. There is NO current offer. He sounded pretty firm. He's a man in authority, he's the authorized signature of the agreement for the US. He went to Ukraine, he's previously discussed the difficulties in dealing with Zelensky.

It is alarming they've only been able to come up with 2.6 dollars of aid and that's a LOAN. I was hoping other countries would come forth with military aid. I do know that there's been humanitarian aid and reconstruction aid, but NO other offer of Military aid.

I know spending runs out, I think around March 14th. I don't think the new budget reconciliation bill will have funding for continued military support. Not after the Oval Office incident and the existing cuts on the table. I think the plan was to do a "set aside" for the economic agreement. We had committed to matching $2 for every dollar of revenue generated (on the 50%) for business in the US brought in.

Moo....

Of course the Reconstruction Agreement should be off the table. No government in their right mind would agree to that sneaky, underhanded, playing-dirty agreement.

 

[otto]

Respectfully, I'm not going to read that entire agreement digging for details. It's a simple yes or no. Is Australia willing to put boots on the ground in Ukraine, stand up against Putin? Moo

It's not that hard to read - 5 minutes at best.

Exclusive: The full text of the US-Ukraine mineral deal

The Kyiv Independent has obtained from a source in the Ukrainian government, the full text of the mineral deal agreement between the U.S. and Ukraine.

kyivindependent.com

 

[Simply Southern]

So Trump wanted the mineral rights for the US but have Europe provide the security?!!

No we do not want the mineral rights. Read the deal, Ukraine leaked it.

The US agreed to bring in new American companies to explore and mine for minerals. Currently nobody will go to Ukraine for any type of business because they're at war. The US companies will pay for ,mineral rights. Ukraine will receive 50% of money paid for the rights and 50% will be placed in a joint fund to be used for reconstruction. The US will match $2 for every dollar in the fund. This is to build up money in the fund for more investment in Ukraine.

Where the US has an opportunity to benefit.... Hopefully these companies purchase the minerals will open manufacturing plants in the United States. The United States would benefit my jobs, taxes, and less dependency on China. Ukraine would benefit from jobs and taxes.

We don't stand to make any money off of Ukraine.

I've done many deals similar to this. I've set up full position practices, we paid all cost and carried the payroll for the first year. As the business grows we would receive a percentage of the profit that would be paid towards the loan for setting up the office. Once all cost recovered, the contract terminates. It's kind of like a borrowing money and paying it back on a sliding scale. The only difference is the payments would go into the funds, not repaying the US,, for reconstruction.

This type of funding agreements happen when there is no money for startup cost
Ukraine needs money to rebuild infrastructure, roads, electricity, secure the nuclear facility they have, communication system, and repair and restore their shipping port. Even if they had business they can't ship anything the port is damaged.

It was a great business deal. At the end of the day, Ukraine keeps their land, still owns the minerals and the soil, after the lease expires, and have some opportunity to recover. How else is he going to pay to rebuild Ukraine? If they expecting Europe and the US to fund that too.

Moo

 

[mickey2942]

I don't see that any US troops will ever be sent to Ukraine.

 

[Simply Southern]

It's not that hard to read - 5 minutes at best.

Exclusive: The full text of the US-Ukraine mineral deal

The Kyiv Independent has obtained from a source in the Ukrainian government, the full text of the mineral deal agreement between the U.S. and Ukraine.

kyivindependent.com

The article she posted was not the economic agreement. It was an article that Australia had written about how much support they had provided to Ukraine.
Sorry for the confusion

 

[Sundog]

why was the meeting in front of the press?

It was posted above that I think Zelezny wanted the meeting in front of t he press. I'll see if I can find the post.

ETA Simply Southern just posted that Macron requested this meeting in front of the press on behalf of Zelensky.

 

[Marysmith]

It was posted above that I think Zelezny wanted the meeting in front of t he press. I'll see if I can find the post.

Respectfully it has to be from a news source, not a post. Thank you.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Starmer is asking for the same treaty provisions that Zelenskyy requested. Security guarantees. It makes no sense to broker a peace agreement that leaves the victim completely defenseless while trusting the hostile invading country to cease their aggression. Leaving Russia free to attack a defenseless Ukraine while plundering their assets renders the entire peace agreement useless.

Do pro Trump people really believe that Russia won’t continue their invasion of an unprotected Ukraine?

A treaty without enforcement isn’t a treaty at all.

Like I said Zelenskyy needs to stop demanding things like security assurances and learn how to ask for it. It's really simple. I don't understand why he doesn't get it. JMO.