4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #100

[gremlin444]

Yet his knife sheath is not like a bank pen that anyone has access to. Unless you are claiming that he was framed, it's logical that he left his sheath there.

Not to mention the item left behind is one that 1) can reasonably be connected to the exact type of wounds seen on the victims and 2) is in a location directly connected to the crime.

1) It wasn't a stuffed animal, a pen, or a bracelet with a Goodwill sticker on it. The murders were committed with a knife--the item left behind with DNA from a person who had no business being there is an item that is inherently connected with knives. They weren't killed by a gunshot and then a knife sheath was found in the bed with two of the victims.

The mental gymnastics required to think that a knife sheath that is underneath victims who died by being attacked with a knife is NOT connected to the crime is stunning.

2) The knife sheath wasn't found in the laundry room, a closet, or in a drawer. It is in the same room as 2 people who were killed by a weapon that by its very nature has a natural association with a knife sheath. Additionally, it is found in bed with, between, and slightly under 2 women who were killed with a knife. A bed is not where people keep knife sheaths. People do not sleep on top of knife sheaths. People don't leave their own empty knife sheath in bed with them, have their friend sleep in bed with them as well, and neither of them notice it.

And if somehow that sheath belonged to MM or KG, like they bought it for personal protection at a local military surplus store where BK had just happened to snap it open and then decided not to buy it---why isn't either of the girls DNA mentioned as being found in the snap? MM or KG (whoever supposedly bought it in some theory) never snapped open the sheath in the store or once they got it home? How terribly unlucky for poor BK who just was a victim of circumstance and terrible luck.

And then we keep having the case of how Lukis Anderson was falsely accused of murdering Raveesh Kumra because a tiny amount of his DNA was found on Raveesh's fingernail. Transfer was found to be the cause...by the same EMT who had taken Anderson to the hospital being a responding EMT who just three hours later took Kumra's vitals in attempt to see if he was still alive.

You can bet your bottom dollar the defense team has searched high and low to find some close proximity connection that they could use to explain transfer or lab contamination. Don't you think that if AT had found something, like one of the responding detectives or forensic team members having any knowable contact with BK in the days prior to the crime, we'd be hearing all about that instead of this fight about the IGG and Franks motions??? In Anderson's case when the defense team and the police and the prosecutor figured this out, charges were dropped before he had to go to trial.

 

[mrjitty]

This really shows IMO how crafting AT is.

it’s why i wonder if most of this stuff is intended for the gallery and not the Judge.

 

[gremlin444]

The houses around were similar, if you think. Some other were party houses. People came back from the game and what do you expect them to do on a Saturday/Sunday night?
On a dash cam police video from that night, guys are walking around around the same time as murders happened carrying alcohol. I would assume marijuana and alcohol, mostly, but who knows? The scene doesn’t look deserted at all.

There is literally a next door neighbor to the house who was awake between 2-5 am that night, playing video games because she couldn't sleep, taking her headphones on and off, reporting that it was quiet.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article269736921.html

"In contrast, the Saturday night leading up to the students’ Sunday, Nov. 13, deaths, which police have characterized as murders, was notably quiet, two neighbors who live in an adjacent apartment complex told the Idaho Statesman. The University of Idaho Vandals football team played their final home game of the season that night, drawing many students downtown afterwards rather than to the neighborhood, a few theorized.

Anna C., 29, a U of I master’s student in environmental science who declined to provide her last name, lives with her boyfriend next to the victims’ home in the 1100 block of King Road. Since the start of the school year, she said, they routinely had to wear earplugs to go to bed....

Anna actually awoke at about 2 a.m. that Sunday, she said, when Spot, the couple’s 7-year-old Alaskan husky mix, began heaving. That’s when she noticed the rare calm of the neighborhood, Anna said. But she couldn’t get back to sleep, so played a computer game until what she estimated was about 5 a.m. She toggled between taking her headphones on and off “just to enjoy the quiet,” Anna said.

 

[INfisherman]

it’s why i wonder if most of this stuff is intended for the gallery and not the Judge.

Of course, & I suspect potential jurors as well. No matter, once all the evidence comes out, a sensible jury will see past all the unlikelihoods the defense will attempt to present. They have to get the DNA explained away, along with all the other evidence which will support our boy’s movements & that is going to be a tough sell to a jury.

Like RA - can’t get him off that bridge, AT can’t make the DNA move to where it should belong, which is off of that property.

MOO

 

[jepop]

The houses around were similar, if you think. Some other were party houses. People came back from the game and what do you expect them to do on a Saturday/Sunday night?
On a dash cam police video from that night, guys are walking around around the same time as murders happened carrying alcohol. I would assume marijuana and alcohol, mostly, but who knows? The scene doesn’t look deserted at all.

Have you read the PCA and studied neighbour reports for the night in question? Detectives interviewed the residents of 1122 and there was no party at the house that night.

I have no idea what you're referring to but dash cam video on the night? What, on King Road? People going in and out of 1122? On the night? A link would be useful but seriously, I've followed this case for a while and I really can't recall dash cam video of a party happening in the street after 2am which was when all the housemates were home as per PCA. Are you confusing dash came video of another night and possibly a different street? Jmo

 

[Charlot123]

Have you read the PCA and studied neighbour reports for the night in question? Detectives interviewed the residents of 1122 and there was no party at the house that night.

I have no idea what you're referring to but dash cam video on the night? What, on King Road? People going in and out of 1122? On the night? A link would be useful but seriously, I've followed this case for a while and I really can't recall dash cam video of a party happening in the street after 2am which was when all the housemates were home as per PCA. Are you confusing dash came video of another night and possibly a different street? Jmo

There is a police dashcam video - they stopped several young men with alcohol. Not a party, going somewhere. Asked for licenses, etc. The house 1122 is in the back of the video. I didn't say people were going out of it. Honestly, I didn't even mention the number. I said that the area around was not deserted. It looked like a regular weekend on a campus.

 

[jepop]

There is a police dashcam video - they stopped several young men with alcohol. Not a party, going somewhere. Asked for licenses, etc. The house 1122 is in the back of the video. I didn't say people were going out of it. Honestly, I didn't even mention the number. I said that the area around was not deserted. It looked like a regular weekend on a campus.

Ok, well maybe if you like check out the MPD updates at the time to understand that all those people were ruled out as suspects. I am struggling to understand why this is relevant. A moment in time and addressed by police. It does not prove that the neighbourhood was teeming with activity at the time of the murders. By all accounts the immediate street where the victims lived was relatively deserted between 3.30 and 4.20am, apart from the white Elantra looping past the house about 4 times. Jmo

 

[Megnut]

There is a police dashcam video - they stopped several young men with alcohol. Not a party, going somewhere. Asked for licenses, etc. The house 1122 is in the back of the video. I didn't say people were going out of it. Honestly, I didn't even mention the number. I said that the area around was not deserted. It looked like a regular weekend on a campus.

Ok, well maybe if you like check out the MPD updates at the time to understand that all those people were ruled out as suspects. I am struggling to understand why this is relevant. A moment in time and addressed by police. It does not prove that the neighbourhood was teeming with activity at the time of the murders. By all accounts the immediate street where the victims lived was relatively deserted between 3.30 and 4.20am, apart from the white Elantra looping past the house about 4 times. Jmo

There was foot traffic, as one might expect on a college campus. IMO the dashcam/bodycam reflects that. Two things can be true. A lot of people were out and about that night. But by 4 am it was largely quiet.

Some of that activity might explain why BK didn't strike earlier. He may have been monitoring the neighborhood, jumprope style, waiting for just the right conditions to enter. 1000 to one, he didn't factor for the door dash delivery, XK being awake and mobile, KG being present (and also possibly awake and mobile).

I find some irony in that. We might never know if looping was part of his strategy or if it, most likely, it was an adjustment to his strategy brought on by circumstances -- like too much activity still -- but I suspect he'd have struck directly, on his first approach (if conditions suited him) because, like LE and their nighttime raids, you expect people to be sleeping at 3 am. BK was wrong, (some of his victims were awake).... and in Pennsylvania, BK was up, moving between his room and the kitchen, busy busy.

JMO

Moscow Police release new body camera footage from Nov. 13

MOSCOW, ID. – For the first time, Moscow detectives have released new body camera footage during the early morning hours of Sunday, Nov. 13. Police hope that the footage can

www.kxly.com

 

[mrjitty]

And then we keep having the case of how Lukis Anderson was falsely accused of murdering Raveesh Kumra because a tiny amount of his DNA was found on Raveesh's fingernail. Transfer was found to be the cause...by the same EMT who had taken Anderson to the hospital being a responding EMT who just three hours later took Kumra's vitals in attempt to see if he was still alive.

RSBM

This is a really important point Gremlin

Simply speculating that a cow jumped over the moon is not evidence. AT needs to bring evidence to support the idea that by some one in a billion piece of bad luck, the defendants DNA ended up at the crime scene.

MOO

 

[Megnut]

Overstating the obvious, carrying over from last night --

Context matters.

Blood DNA might be a better source for good DNA than touch DNA, but a single source profile (even from touch DNA) trumps a mixed profile (even from blood), every day and twice on Sunday.

Bottom line, LE tests the evidence they have. Fair chance BK didn't injure himself -- skill, knife design, protective measures -- likely he didn't leave bloody DNA behind.

And everybody is right who says, yeahbutt. Yeah, but the DNA on the sheath was "only" touch. On a movable object. Indeed. So how did it get there? Really, what's more intuitive (by which I mean reasonable) -- some unknown individual left the sheath with BK's DNA on it left it there? Or BK did? What's more likely, he touched the sheath innocently, on a store or virtual shelf, and then some other murderer bought it and brought it there? Or BK himself transferred that sheath from his house to theirs?

Hard sell to say someone else was somehow magically in possession of BK's sheath. How, when, why?

Hard sell to say someone else had BK's knife/sheath, had his car.... what? Maybe had his eyebrows....

When AT has assured us that BK had his car. Yep, he was driving around in it that night. "Just not over there". Yeah, well, let me be the judge of that.

IME juries don't invent fiction. Could BK have bought a sheath touched it and deposited his own DNA on it and someone else picked it up, without leaving any of their DNA on it, sneaked into 1122 while BK was driving around in loops and murdered four people... and then...what? Walked away? Where is there ANY evidence to support that???

Juries apply logic and reason.

Even if there remains untested or untestable stranger DNA on a rail, that doesn't rise to the level of exculpatory. It just might be one of those unanswerable questions every trial leaves behind.

It's not beyond ALL doubt.

JMO

 

[Sor Juana]

Fortunately, only one Elantra owner on earth left his DNA on the sheath to the murder weapon.

BBM. What murder weapon?

 

[Justice101]

Not to mention the item left behind is one that 1) can reasonably be connected to the exact type of wounds seen on the victims and 2) is in a location directly connected to the crime.

1) It wasn't a stuffed animal, a pen, or a bracelet with a Goodwill sticker on it. The murders were committed with a knife--the item left behind with DNA from a person who had no business being there is an item that is inherently connected with knives. They weren't killed by a gunshot and then a knife sheath was found in the bed with two of the victims.

The mental gymnastics required to think that a knife sheath that is underneath victims who died by being attacked with a knife is NOT connected to the crime is stunning.

2) The knife sheath wasn't found in the laundry room, a closet, or in a drawer. It is in the same room as 2 people who were killed by a weapon that by its very nature has a natural association with a knife sheath. Additionally, it is found in bed with, between, and slightly under 2 women who were killed with a knife. A bed is not where people keep knife sheaths. People do not sleep on top of knife sheaths. People don't leave their own empty knife sheath in bed with them, have their friend sleep in bed with them as well, and neither of them notice it.

And if somehow that sheath belonged to MM or KG, like they bought it for personal protection at a local military surplus store where BK had just happened to snap it open and then decided not to buy it---why isn't either of the girls DNA mentioned as being found in the snap? MM or KG (whoever supposedly bought it in some theory) never snapped open the sheath in the store or once they got it home? How terribly unlucky for poor BK who just was a victim of circumstance and terrible luck.

And then we keep having the case of how Lukis Anderson was falsely accused of murdering Raveesh Kumra because a tiny amount of his DNA was found on Raveesh's fingernail. Transfer was found to be the cause...by the same EMT who had taken Anderson to the hospital being a responding EMT who just three hours later took Kumra's vitals in attempt to see if he was still alive.

You can bet your bottom dollar the defense team has searched high and low to find some close proximity connection that they could use to explain transfer or lab contamination. Don't you think that if AT had found something, like one of the responding detectives or forensic team members having any knowable contact with BK in the days prior to the crime, we'd be hearing all about that instead of this fight about the IGG and Franks motions??? In Anderson's case when the defense team and the police and the prosecutor figured this out, charges were dropped before he had to go to trial.

Very well stated. I like how you used absurdity to show the knife sheath in bed partially under the girls was not a random thing.

 

[Sor Juana]

All model years, since 2018.

"Partially redacted public records obtained by Fox News Digital show 90 white Hyundai Elantras have been registered for campus parking between the start of the fall 2018 semester and December 2022."

That part often is left out.

90. Having at least one other white Elantra would be enough to exclude BK's Elantra as the sole vehicle linked to the crime scene. There is no evidence that BK has ever been to that house. There are no videos, no fingerprints on any immovable parts of the house, and no other links.

 

[INfisherman]

90. Having at least one other white Elantra would be enough to exclude BK's Elantra as the sole vehicle linked to the crime scene. There is no evidence that BK has ever been to that house. There are no videos, no fingerprints on any immovable parts of the house, and no other links.

Patience, padawan. All the evidence will be revealed at trial. It is the surface we have just begun to scratch.

His DNA found inside the house, it was. Find, they did, latent shoe prints matching the owner of the caterpillars.

MOO

 

[Sor Juana]

The other 89 white Elantras (over the course of several years) were not all swarming around Moscow at the time of the murders.

It is Bryan who self-declared that he was out driving that night, between Pullman and Moscow, so he could “stargaze.”

How cruel of the stars and moon to refuse to twinkle in Pullman, forcing Bryan to drive to Moscow, right? And have his phone turned off just during the time period
of the slayings.

If I were a juror listening to this charade of an alibi, I would find this extremely unlikely. Beyond a reasonable doubt, in fact.

JMO

So what? BK is not an ordinary man, and he has a diagnosis to confirm that. However, this speaks more in his defense than against him. I find it hard to picture someone with OCD not putting the sheath back on a $300 knife and walking out of the house without a thorough clean-up. In fact, his specific traits make him an unlikely candidate to actually use a knife for murder, even if he wanted to commit one. He is too clumsy for such an exercise. JMO.

 

[Justice101]

90. Having at least one other white Elantra would be enough to exclude BK's Elantra as the sole vehicle linked to the crime scene. There is no evidence that BK has ever been to that house. There are no videos, no fingerprints on any immovable parts of the house, and no other links.

Interesting. There are multiple make, model and color vehicles of pretty much EVERY car out there on a big campus.

Finding other white Elantras will not work. The point being that if the car was identified as any other make, model or color... BK "could" have been excluded. Which he was not.

Without a license plate, yes it is circumstantial... but one of those things that when you string together 20 coincidences, most juries will realize the impossibility that it's not related.

Especially if the prosecution has evidence BK bought a K-Bar knife, did internet searches the following morning on murders in the area, evidence of bleach residue in his car, turned his phone off and on bracketing the murder timeframe, etc.

The DNA evidence is what factualizes the whole list of these possible coincidences.. DNA is the 1000 lb. gorilla in the room. If the defense doesn't get the DNA evidence kicked out as an (presumptive) unlawful genealogy search.... their case is lost.

 

[NCWatcher]

RSBM

This is a really important point Gremlin

Simply speculating that a cow jumped over the moon is not evidence. AT needs to bring evidence to support the idea that by some one in a billion piece of bad luck, the defendants DNA ended up at the crime scene.

MOO

BBM

That may be true. But it sounds an awful lot like saying it's up to AT to prove BK is innocent. I don't think it's supposed to work that way.
MOO

 

[Justice101]

So what? BK is not an ordinary man, and he has a diagnosis to confirm that. However, this speaks more in his defense than against him. I find it hard to picture someone with OCD not putting the sheath back on a $300 knife and walking out of the house without a thorough clean-up. In fact, his specific traits make him an unlikely candidate to actually use a knife for murder, even if he wanted to commit one. He is too clumsy for such an exercise. JMO.

It was very dark in that room so hard to see....and I wonder if:

1) BK didn't know he dropped the sheath out of his (presumed) pocket ... or

2) BK left the sheath there on purpose because he had thought he had meticulously cleaned the sheath ahead of time and was wearing gloves at the time of the murders. But he forgot the bloody inside of the snap. With his background an studies, part of me thinks he was fascinated/admired serial killers and wanted to be know as the "knife sheath murderer". And would probably do it again over the years.,

 

[Sor Juana]

Not to mention the item left behind is one that 1) can reasonably be connected to the exact type of wounds seen on the victims and 2) is in a location directly connected to the crime.

1) It wasn't a stuffed animal, a pen, or a bracelet with a Goodwill sticker on it. The murders were committed with a knife--the item left behind with DNA from a person who had no business being there is an item that is inherently connected with knives. They weren't killed by a gunshot and then a knife sheath was found in the bed with two of the victims.

The mental gymnastics required to think that a knife sheath that is underneath victims who died by being attacked with a knife is NOT connected to the crime is stunning.

2) The knife sheath wasn't found in the laundry room, a closet, or in a drawer. It is in the same room as 2 people who were killed by a weapon that by its very nature has a natural association with a knife sheath. Additionally, it is found in bed with, between, and slightly under 2 women who were killed with a knife. A bed is not where people keep knife sheaths. People do not sleep on top of knife sheaths. People don't leave their own empty knife sheath in bed with them, have their friend sleep in bed with them as well, and neither of them notice it.

And if somehow that sheath belonged to MM or KG, like they bought it for personal protection at a local military surplus store where BK had just happened to snap it open and then decided not to buy it---why isn't either of the girls DNA mentioned as being found in the snap? MM or KG (whoever supposedly bought it in some theory) never snapped open the sheath in the store or once they got it home? How terribly unlucky for poor BK who just was a victim of circumstance and terrible luck.

And then we keep having the case of how Lukis Anderson was falsely accused of murdering Raveesh Kumra because a tiny amount of his DNA was found on Raveesh's fingernail. Transfer was found to be the cause...by the same EMT who had taken Anderson to the hospital being a responding EMT who just three hours later took Kumra's vitals in attempt to see if he was still alive.

You can bet your bottom dollar the defense team has searched high and low to find some close proximity connection that they could use to explain transfer or lab contamination. Don't you think that if AT had found something, like one of the responding detectives or forensic team members having any knowable contact with BK in the days prior to the crime, we'd be hearing all about that instead of this fight about the IGG and Franks motions??? In Anderson's case when the defense team and the police and the prosecutor figured this out, charges were dropped before he had to go to trial.

Much ado about nothing, it seems. The presence of touch DNA on an item only indicates that the person had contact with the object at some point. It does not necessarily mean that the person was involved in the crime. Without the knife itself, there is no direct evidence linking the sheath to the actual murder weapon. The knife could have been discarded, stolen, or replaced, making it impossible to conclusively determine that the sheath belonged to the murder weapon. The timing and location of when the DNA was deposited on the sheath are crucial factors. The DNA could have been placed on the sheath days, weeks, or even months before the crime occurred, making it difficult to establish a direct connection between the DNA and the crime. To establish a clear link between the sheath and the crime, the chain of custody must be meticulously documented. Any gaps or inconsistencies in the chain of custody could raise doubts about the reliability of the evidence.

 

[Justice101]

Much ado about nothing, it seems. The presence of touch DNA on an item only indicates that the person had contact with the object at some point. It does not necessarily mean that the person was involved in the crime. Without the knife itself, there is no direct evidence linking the sheath to the actual murder weapon. The knife could have been discarded, stolen, or replaced, making it impossible to conclusively determine that the sheath belonged to the murder weapon. The timing and location of when the DNA was deposited on the sheath are crucial factors. The DNA could have been placed on the sheath days, weeks, or even months before the crime occurred, making it difficult to establish a direct connection between the DNA and the crime. To establish a clear link between the sheath and the crime, the chain of custody must be meticulously documented. Any gaps or inconsistencies in the chain of custody could raise doubts about the reliability of the evidence.

IMHO, that's ain't gonna fly with a jury.