4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #100

[schooling]

I'd appreciate any insight you can give me. I seem to be missing the position of the footprint. How is the footprint described? Parallel to the threshold? Point towards the stairs, pointing towards another direction? I can easily see a print being left on the way down the stairs, parallel to DM's door. There was a little step up that goes to the living room from that space near her door, so you might have to put more pressure on one foot to go up the little step, or put more pressure on a foot coming back the other way going down the step.

i think it's very easy to read the PCA and come to a second only less likely conclusion, ALL MOO:

• DM was awoken by the loud sounds of the BK and Ethan and Xana struggle coming to an end
• DM hears the dog above her freaking out. Likely loudly barking to warn KG because the dog can detect that someones in the house and/or has heard the struggle.
• BK kills Ethan and leaves Xana for dead and rushes upstairs to find MM (MOO)
• Kaylee wakes up from the sounds downstairs and her dog barking. She knows when/why her dog barks and hears footsteps coming towards the door and says "Somebody's Here"
• This is why, IMO, KG was alert and awake and (probably even surprised BK) in the position to fiercely fight back and got the brunt of her injuries as stated by her Dad
• BK kills MM and KG and while doing so is surprised hearing still alive and Xana crying downstairs.
• It could be that Xana's unexpected cries made him forget about the sheath and/or putting away the knife.
• BK heads downstairs "I'm here to Help", kills Xana
• Did he notice that he didn't have the sheath at this point? Maybe.
• And maybe he thought about going back upstairs but saw DM, and changed his mind. As he might have assumed that she long ago had called the police. And that they were on the way.
• Loud thumps, dogs, probably screams and overturned furniture. Hence his quick escape from the house and the neighborhood.

All MOO and a theory.

 

[MassGuy]

Oh boy! Wait for it......

The prosecution will want to make sure this door is closed, if at all possible. They know full well the defense will attempt to point to these samples as belonging to the "real killer," despite the fact that at best, they indicate an accomplice.

I'd be very surprised if law enforcement did not go back and at least make an attempt at identifying them.

 

[al66pine]

KaBar Knife Sheath. Leather, per PCA Description.

Additionally, to be clear, see the following (if interested) concerning location of the knife sheath found at ONE of the crime scenes.


I also later noticed what appeared to be a tan leather knife sheath laying on the bed next to MM’s right side (when viewed from the door). The sheath was later processed and had “Ka-Bar” “USMC” and the United States Marine Corps eagle globe and anchor insignia stamped on the outside of it. The Idaho State Lab later located a single source of male DNA (Suspect Profile) left on the button snap of the knife sheath.

Exhibit A (partial) Statement of BP

Case Summary (Updated 02/20/25)

• 12/29/2022 Affidavit

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

Thx @Ariel for quoting the PCA's description of LEATHER sheath found at 1122 King. See KaBar pix at KaBar.com.

In the last few days, some posts included pix of sheaths made of a different material, a rigid material KYDEX,* which holds the knife inside sheath by friction fit, not by a leather loop holding it in.*

Not really familiar w details, but it appears the way the snaps attach may be different. So possibly different probabilities or ways of how sheath was left behind?
Hoping some posters experienced w these may have meaningful comments.

_____________________
* Kydex is a "line of thermoplastic acrylic-polyvinyl chloride materials" which is rigid. <--- Wiki
Images: s

Google Search

 

[Boxer]

As for that blood spot on the railing, they did not enter it into CODIS as they already had the name of the contributor on the sheath DNA (BK), and it would have removed that sample from CODIS.

That’s something they’d have to look at later. I’m sure that’s already happened.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/022125-Transcript-Redacted-hearing-held-Jan23-2025.pdf

View attachment 565540

Unknown male blood on bannoater between second and first floor.
The slider is on the second floor.

 

[Megnut]

Get Reading!

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/022125-Transcript-Redacted-hearing-held-Jan23-2025.pdf

P. 44 reads a book, sings a lullaby, tucks baby in and lays to rest the nonsense about DNA size. Has nothing to do with the size of the sample. What is clear is that a single source profile could be developed and, when entered into CODIS, it's only looking at the 1% of variant DNA and not the 99% all humans share, and it does so by looking at anywhere from13 to 25-plus locations.

To contrast, Othram looks at 10,000.

Nowhere is there a discussion of 11 or 20 skin cells. Frankly it doesn't matter if BK left three or three hundred; it was enough to develop a profile of one male contributor.

When your defendant is guilty and the evidence is strong, confuse.

Judge ain't confused.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

P. 60

What? Other DNA recovered from the trash pull. One that could be a father or son of the unknown DNA from the sheath. AND AT asked the witness, "and are you aware that Bryan Kohberger's DNA was in the trash?" Witness answers, "I was not aware.... I became aware later".

Wow.

 

[Tricia]

If you are looking for a new interesting case check out the teenager on trial for stabbing his twin sister. Benjamin Elliott claims he was sleep walking

Thread 'TX - Benjamin Elliott, 17, fatally stabbed Twin Sister while asleep, Katy, 28 Sept 2021'

Sep 30, 2021

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10046489/Texas-boy-17-told-police-SLEEPING-stabbed-twin-sister-death.html

“Benjamin Elliott, 17, from Katy, Texas, has been charged with murder for allegedly stabbing to death his twin sister, Meghan, which he claimed to have done in his sleep

A 17-year-old Texas boy has allegedly confessed to killing his twin sister but told authorities he was sleeping when he repeatedly plunged a knife into her neck.

Benjamin Elliott was booked into the Harris County Jail on Thursday on a count of murder for the brutal slaying of Meghan Elliott...

• realanastasia
• Replies: 55
• Forum: On-Trial

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[Rolypolyoly]

The prosecution will want to make sure this door is closed, if at all possible. They know full well the defense will attempt to point to these samples as belonging to the "real killer," despite the fact that at best, they indicate an accomplice.

I'd be very surprised if law enforcement did not go back and at least make an attempt at identifying them.

Oh I agree. My post was purely a prediction for this thread

 

[arielilane]

@kfixler

Latest: The defense for #BryanKohberger gets a makeover a day after the #Idaho4 judge ruled against excluding variety of evidence from his #Idaho murder trial. A SF-based attorney who specializes in forensic #DNA cases is joining his legal defense team.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1893097612347351166

Bicka Barlow, formerly of the San Francisco Public Defender’s Office, joins the trio of lawyers defending Kohberger. Since 2013, she has run a private law office with a focus on cases that involve forensic DNA evidence, according to her website.

Read more at: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article300738279.html#storylink=cpy

 

[sripey]

P. 60

What? Other DNA recovered from the trash pull. One that could be a father or son of the unknown DNA from the sheath. AND AT asked the witness, "and are you aware that Bryan Kohberger's DNA was in the trash?" Witness answers, "I was not aware.... I became aware later".

Wow.

I'm guessing that because it takes time to separate intermixed DNA (according to these docs, separating DNA is a different process that is pretty complex), they settled on the single source male DNA found in the trash dump, which was determined to be from BK's dad. That match (comparing BK DNA with BK dad DNA) is quicker than separating DNA and is enough for probable cause. The mixed DNA results most certainly arrived after BK was arrested.

A couple other things in that IGG hearing I found interesting:
- There WAS blood on the bottom of the sheath. I don't think that's much of a surprise considering where the sheath was found.
- Othram giving a low confidence lead that could be improved if LE was able to convince one of four brothers to submit DNA to a database. The brother declined.

 

[LinasK]

Or... he saw an opportunity, knowing he'd be leaving.

That's what occurred to me. He'd be out of state when they went to look for a suspect.

 

[Ghostwheel]

RSBM: So IMO, the implication is that the killer (BK, let's be real) either came extremely close to opening DM's door OR might have left a set of bloody footprints that are pointing in direction of the stairs.

Thank you. I still don't understand where that implication is coming from, but I appreciate the response. I have gone over and over the pictures I have seen, and that step down from the living room to the space in front of DM's door (or step up from the space in front of DM's door UP to the living room) escaped me until now. It made me think more along the lines of
1) He came downstairs and whatever was on the shoe to make a print was mostly gone, but the extra pressure to go up the little step put more pressure on the downward shoe and anything left in the treads would leave a print (parallel to the door and wall). Maybe Xana appeared and he had to rush to getup the step.
2) He was heading out when he heard Xana, or she appeared in the living room to kitchen doorway and he turned to stop her (footprint heading back towards DMs door with more pressure as he was trying to run Xana down before she found a safe place to lock herself in.
3) Coming around the corner from the living room and planning on going out the sliding door would STILL leave a footprint parallel or even pointing to DMs door or to upstairs before turning to the kitchen based on the layout, imo.

It's not really important, I was just curious if it was written anywhere what direction the print went in.

 

[LinasK]

Thank you. I still don't understand where that implication is coming from, but I appreciate the response. I have gone over and over the pictures I have seen, and that step down from the living room to the space in front of DM's door (or step up from the space in front of DM's door UP to the living room) escaped me until now. It made me think more along the lines of
1) He came downstairs and whatever was on the shoe to make a print was mostly gone, but the extra pressure to go up the little step put more pressure on the downward shoe and anything left in the treads would leave a print (parallel to the door and wall). Maybe Xana appeared and he had to rush to getup the step.
2) He was heading out when he heard Xana, or she appeared in the living room to kitchen doorway and he turned to stop her (footprint heading back towards DMs door with more pressure as he was trying to run Xana down before she found a safe place to lock herself in.
3) Coming around the corner from the living room and planning on going out the sliding door would STILL leave a footprint parallel or even pointing to DMs door or to upstairs before turning to the kitchen based on the layout, imo.

It's not really important, I was just curious if it was written anywhere what direction the print went in.

Where is the layout of the house accessible?

 

[INfisherman]

Where is the layout of the house accessible?

Here is a PDF which might be useful.

 

[Ghostwheel]

This has a rudimentary layout. I am hesitant to post it, because I never fail to miss that some link somewhere was verboten.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article271013167.html

I actually went out to the net to find the now deleted Zillow images that someone else had saved. I can't post them here because they are not on an approved site now, and I can't just upload images that belonged to a real estate company. Plenty of people out there have floor plans and walkthroughs and such, but if you can find and look at the actual images of the house, there are some interesting things that you can't see in a floorplan.

 

[LinasK]

This has a rudimentary layout. I am hesitant to post it, because I never fail to miss that some link somewhere was verboten.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article271013167.html

I actually went out to the net to find the now deleted Zillow images that someone else had saved. I can't post them here because they are not on an approved site now, and I can't just upload images that belonged to a real estate company. Plenty of people out there have floor plans and walkthroughs and such, but if you can find and look at the actual images of the house, there are some interesting things that you can't see in a floorplan.

But how can the real estate company object if the house has been destroyed? It's not a property that they can resell, unless they are reselling the land?

 

[jepop]

But how can the real estate company object if the house has been destroyed? It's not a property that they can resell, unless they are reselling the land?

UI Student Murders · Nov 26, 2022 – Jan 5, 2024 📸

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photos.google.com

Try this link. It's at the beginning of each thread and has some decent layout images of the house from memory. I'm sure there are also some 3 D walk throughs around online. They vary in accuracy and quality. I checked some of them out a long time ago but found the plans more useful for orientation.

ETA, link also includes real estate photos from inside and a bunch of external perspectives. It's an excellent source for photos but pretty sure house plans are there too.

 

[jepop]

Unknown male blood on bannoater between second and first floor.
The slider is on the second floor.

On the first set of stairs, an isolated" "spot" by the sounds of it. Probably from the early days of swabbing before investigators had fully reconstructed the entry and exit route via the slider. Despite the location, I'm sure defense will milk it for all it's worth but also sure prosecution will successfully counter with expert testimony to demonstrate irrelevance. Jmo

 

[wendy44]

P. 60

What? Other DNA recovered from the trash pull. One that could be a father or son of the unknown DNA from the sheath. AND AT asked the witness, "and are you aware that Bryan Kohberger's DNA was in the trash?" Witness answers, "I was not aware.... I became aware later".

Wow.

I was wondering why AT was going so hard on this, why it was so important. At the very end there's a conversation between Nye and the judge about a standing issue with challenging the trash pull.

What happened is in the opening brief, they asserted there was DNA found in there, including an unidentified male. In the response, I said, Well,that's not standing, you can't just say unidentified male. In the reply they attached this saying, Well, we looked at it and it was his. That's sufficient. I don't plan on arguing that point.

So it sounds like it was important to the defense to prove the DNA in the mixed profile was BK so he could have standing to challenge the pull?
JMO

 

[LinasK]

I was wondering why AT was going so hard on this, why it was so important. At the very end there's a conversation between Nye and the judge about a standing issue with challenging the trash pull.

What happened is in the opening brief, they asserted there was DNA found in there, including an unidentified male. In the response, I said, Well,that's not standing, you can't just say unidentified male. In the reply they attached this saying, Well, we looked at it and it was his. That's sufficient. I don't plan on arguing that point.

So it sounds like it was important to the defense to prove the DNA in the mixed profile was BK so he could have standing to challenge the pull?
JMO

I'm confused- say it IS his DNA to say it isn't him?