4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #101

[jepop]

Motion to preclude....

1. If there's too much evidence, instead of whining to the Court, BK is free to save everyone the trouble of a trial. He can plead guilty.

2. All this discovery is not new. Nor are her arguments.

3. Because the State hasn't organized discovery to her liking and for what she calls discovery violations, AT is asking for the judge to drop the DP, as remedy.

4. AT strongly suggests that, if the judge doesn't drop the DP, it will create issues at trial leading to a mistrial.

5. 30 pages. I could have just banged my head against a wall and felt it a more productive use of my time.

JMO

Haven't read this one yet. Is it really 30 pages? only because I thought Hippler limited them to 20 when he granted the defense motion to exceed page limit on certain motions? Probably 30 with attachments or something

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[Sor Juana]

DNA FOUND UNDER VICTIM’S FINGERNAILS

Kohberger claims that independent testing by the defense excluded him as a contributor.

 

[Megnut]

Haven't read this one yet. Is it really 30 pages? only because I thought Hippler limited them to 20 when he granted the defense motion to exceed page limit on certain motions? Probably 30 with attachments or something

---

30 full pages, all argument, no attachments.

 

[Megnut]

After having a night to let some if this sink in, I'm broken even more for BK and DM. So traumatic.

Whole new appreciation for HJ. He went to check. He couldn't possibly have been prepared for what he saw. (I can't recall now where EC was in relation to XK so I don't know whether HJ would/could have seen EC too but seeing even just XK he would have known she was beyond saving and they needed LE immediately.)

Once outside, IMO, he was in protective mode. Even though he couldn't disguise his face, he didn't want to divulge what he'd seen to 911, not in front of BF and DM.

911 can mean different things to different people. Context matters. You have a fender bender on the highway, you call 911. You need police, not an ambulance. You come home to your house ransacked, you call 911. Same. You need police, not an ambulance.

HJ wanted the police IMO.

Dispatch, getting information from individuals who hadn't actually seen any of the victims, only knew they weren't responding (to calls and texts!). Dispatch was identifying it as a medical emergency, based on the characterization of unresponsive.

Then HJ takes the phone, the only one who had actually seen a victim, but the dispatcher would have no way of knowing this AND no way to know that BF/DM had not.

I see clearly where unresponsive/nonresponsive came from. And where the confusion came in.

Dispatch did not ask BF/DM if they were with the patient. And didn't realize that HJ had firsthand knowledge and the other two had none. IMO they only knew that the roommates weren't responding (electronically) and called 911 because they where directed to, without having fresh knowledge of XK's condition.

HJ will never be able to unsee what he saw. Time might be kind to him and give him many other images to reflect on but it will always be there. He is a hero IMO for shielding BF and DM, if only for a few minutes.

Their worlds would never be the same.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

I went back and looked at the report.

Based on Payne's record, it seems the XK was visible from the hallway, and that her injuries were evident. EC is described as "in the room" so I'm thinking XK was likely in the doorway to some degree. Which leads me to believe that HJ could have seen XK, seen her injuries, without going forward any further.

JMO

Boston Herald

Boston Herald

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idaho-murders-court-document-unsealed.pdf

 

[DizzyB]

I went back and looked at the report.

Based on Payne's record, it seems the XK was visible from the hallway, and that her injuries were evident. EC is described as "in the room" so I'm thinking XK was likely in the doorway to some degree. Which leads me to believe that HJ could have seen XK, seen her injuries, without going forward any further.

JMO

Boston Herald

Boston Herald

Boston news, sports, politics, opinion, entertainment, weather and obituaries

www.bostonherald.com

PDF
idaho-murders-court-document-unsealed.pdf

I assume that friends were called to check on everyone upstairs, since all calls and texts went unanswered.When HJ went to check things out, he must have seen Xana who was visible, and said to call 911. The call then only became about Xana. In reality, they probably should have all immediately left the house. The killer could have still been inside. Did HJ process that the fact that Xana was deceased, and if the others were also not responding, they might be as well?

 

[Megnut]

I assume that friends were called to check on everyone upstairs, since all calls and texts went unanswered.When HJ went to check things out, he must have seen Xana who was visible, and said to call 911. The call then only became about Xana. In reality, they probably should have all immediately left the house. The killer could have still been inside. Did HJ process that the fact that Xana was deceased, and if the others were also not responding, they might be as well?

I don't think anyone else was in the house, besides HJ. Unless someone accompanied him.

Not sure why he didn't call 911 but the brain does weird things. He was investigating FOR DM/BF so maybe it made sense to his brain to direct them to call????

At that point, I think HJ was aware he needed police, not paramedics. Understandably that didn't get conveyed to DM/BF and therefore not to the dispatcher either.

When HJ saw XK, I expect the blood drained from HIS brain and in that moment there was ONLY XK and getting the police. Shock. Didn't investigate further, didn't look for the other roommates, didn't consider his own safety, didn't wonder where the murderer was or whether there were other victims. That part of his brain probably shut down.

JMO

 

[schooling]

I went back and looked at the report.

Based on Payne's record, it seems the XK was visible from the hallway, and that her injuries were evident. EC is described as "in the room" so I'm thinking XK was likely in the doorway to some degree. Which leads me to believe that HJ could have seen XK, seen her injuries, without going forward any further.

JMO

Boston Herald

Boston Herald

Boston news, sports, politics, opinion, entertainment, weather and obituaries

www.bostonherald.com

PDF
idaho-murders-court-document-unsealed.pdf

It really is mind numbing how accurate the information circulating shortly after the murders were.

I mean, pretty much everything revealed in either the PCA or through filings.

MOO

 

[mmeynstyn]

The last part. I think maybe that male guest was the one who saw her, and then relayed it to everyone else. These girls would have been too scared to check on their own, and that's why I think he was there in the first place.

It's confusing without hearing the actual call. And still impossible to know how this actually went down until they testify.

I am with you MassGuy. Personally, I would be afraid to go into the room. DM was already freaked out from what she saw. They obviously did not feel for a pulse. Someone just peaked in the door but it was not one of the girls. That peak in the door was during the 911 call. MOO

IMO, EC may have been on the other side of the bed and was not visible from the door (and his blood loss may not have been visible from the door). Sounds like XK tried to stop the attack which confirms to me she was the thump heard on the audio recording that triggered dog barking as BK threw her against the wall. JMO She was probably huddled up in the corner, holding the hand/fingers that were cut. And, if the floor was not level (lower in the corner), the blood would have run toward the wall/corner, not out in the center of the room. Then, after dealing with EC, BK went back to XK to take care of a potential witness.

 

[Tealgrove]

It surprised me that not one of them screamed or was able to scream as they were being attacked.

I’m wondering if went straight for the throat so they couldn’t scream.

 

[Megnut]

It surprised me that not one of them screamed or was able to scream as they were being attacked.

I’m wondering if went straight for the throat so they couldn’t scream.

Leathal plunges to lungs/heart + frenzy

There have been done who think one person couldn't have killed four people within the timeframe involved.

Considering how lethal a k-bar knife is, it's a wonder it took as long as it did. About 11 minutes or so by my guesstimate.

(from what I recall, parking at ~4:06, noise at ~4:17, car speeding away at ~4:20)

If BK tool care to enter slowly, quietly, he might have reached the third level at ~4:10... I happen to think KG was awake, had investigated Murphy's reaction to activity (the Door Dash vehicle, XK opening the door, possibly BK's car, possibly the slider opening), told MM (95% asleep), "there's someone there" as she ran back up the steps (having seen either the DD car or BK on approach, but I lean towards the former), and in stealth, BK slinked in.

He had every nightmare advantage, plus a wicked weapon, he didn't need more than a mean minute or two to slaughter two victims.

He also knew he had "company" on "his six". (I watch NCIS. I practice copspeak.) He would have heard DM shout out. He knew he had matters to take care of, even as he was in his third floor killing field.

We will never know what XP heard.

Her house was quiet, EC possibly asleep. She ordered JITB, watched TikTok while waiting for delivery... did she eat it? On the first floor steps? Did she set it behind the kitchen sink? Did her earbuds prevent her from hearing the slider, Murphy, DM? Where was she when BK entered? She could have been sitting on the sofa and he didn't even see her and she didn't hear him.

When he came down the steps, was she in the kitchen? Did he walk her at knifepoint to her room? Why? Why would he even know which room to take her to? Or was she heading TO her room, from the kitchen, overtook her before she even knew he was there. Tells her not to worry, he's "there to help her".

By that point, EC would have been an unwelcome surprise and suddenly the bigger threat. He must have injured XP, moved to EC and killed him with force (the thud) before returning to a whimpering XK, then killing her too.

He was as efficient as he was evil.

JMO

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1898018062814560617

 

[Megnut]

This just struck me. In light of confirmation that DM did leave her room and dart downstairs, there's a really tight timeline for DM seeing BK, BK driving away, and DM leaving her room.

She texted BF from 4:22 to 4:24. BK was gone when she left her room.

She tried calling the victims between 4:19 and 4:27...

She left her room after BK drove away.

Even at 4:19, her phone calling started after BK was likely out of the house but waaaaaaaay scary close. Iirc the thud was at 4:17....assuming that was EC and that he finished killing XK next, he was walking by DM's door very close to 4:19....

She must have opened her door at ~4:18... he was coming, not from upstairs, but from the direction of XK's room, right? Was DM's first phone call to XP or to KG, who she believed was also awake?

The footprint.

Is it possible that BK didn't see DM immediately, when he walked past her, but that it did register, he went back to her door, not entirely sure of his perception, stood up close to it, to listen for sounds? Hearing none, satisfied, then he left?

Chilling to imagine DM, heart pounding on one side of her door, BK walking back, leaning into the save door, and within seconds of that, DM is dialing a roommate -- while BK is RIGHT THERE.

Scary as hell.

Pardon me. I need to ask AT if it's ok to refer to her client as

SCARY AS HELL

because he is. Every day and twice at night.

JMO

911 call transcript, surviving roommates' texts detail night of University of Idaho student murders

The documents show two of the surviving roommates discussing the alleged appearance of a masked man leaving the house where four University of Idaho students were found fatally stabbed.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Concerning the release of the text messages, I remember very early on DM being essentially vilified for sleeping through everything, and not calling 911 until noon the next day.
Then later when it was revealed she came face to face with the killer, more criticism about why she didn’t call 911 then.
I hope these text messages shut all that up. Yea, I admit I thought initially she just fell into drunken slumber until noon, though I never criticized her.
That was so not the case. She was terrified with her equally terrified roommate, and these young people were desperately trying to figure out what was going on.
It is heartbreaking to read.
Sometimes these cases drone on and on, and morph into legal motions and hearings and we lose the personal context of the actual crime. For me, these text messages have snapped me out of the fog.

 

[cujenn81]

Oh goody, now we get to usher in round 9,493,939,393 of why didn't DM/BF call 911 until nearly noon the next morning.

I think we can get some answers to that from the defense's own recent filings (and I think at least 1 state filing). DM is quoted as saying that she was really drunk and was questioning everything she saw/it was fuzzy. It is stated that she has had known problems in the past with lucid dreaming/vivid nightmares.

So take that info, mix it in with the fact that neither DM or BF are reported to say they heard loud screams. If there were no screams, it's easy to talk yourself into thinking nothing bad has happened, right? And big strong Ethan is in the house, surely if something bad had happened he would have stopped it. And yeah, they aren't answering their phones or texts, but DM and BF either know or suspect that the other four had been drinking a lot that night as well. And their phones are probably set to mute for the night, especially for incoming phone calls and maybe even texts.

You have DM unsure of what she saw and if she saw it. She could wonder if maybe it was a guy KG or MM had hooked up with--and boy wouldn't it be awkward to call the police in that case, esp. since MM has a current boyfriend and KG and JD are still close.

The power of denial is very strong and the ability of two people to end up talking each other out of taking action is strong. These things don't happen to us. They don't happen in Moscow. You're young, you're in college, you're invincible.

Nothing is wrong, because if there is, we would have seen or heard something bigger. Something dramatic. Something that can't be explained away.

And maybe...just maybe...there's the tiny part of your brain that is trying to protect you from the horror...by delaying the moment of finding out. If I don't look, it won't have happened.

You could write it off to their ages, but honestly, I've seen grown adults make equally puzzling decisions in a situation that looks obvious to us as outsiders.

Great post. Agree 1000%. The brain tries to make sense of senseless things, and I think it’s almost human nature to come up with rational explanations — especially when you’re experiencing fear.

For example, I witnessed a drive-by shooting on my way home from work one day. I was only maybe 50 feet away. I first noticed the truck stopped in the middle of the road with its door open. Then I saw a guy standing on the running board firing a handgun at a group of people running in the opposite direction. By the time I got home, I had thoroughly convinced myself there was NO WAY I’d seen a guy firing off rounds at a group of people in broad daylight at 4 o’clock in the afternoon during rush hour traffic. No, I’d just seen a group of teenagers arguing and about to fight each other. When I told my husband about it, I even made fun of myself for entertaining such a crazy idea. But then… the shooting was reported on the news. Thankfully, no one was killed or I would have felt so bad about not calling 911 right away.

 

[MTW2011]

Concerning the release of the text messages, I remember very early on DM being essentially vilified for sleeping through everything, and not calling 911 until noon the next day.
Then later when it was revealed she came face to face with the killer, more criticism about why she didn’t call 911 then.
I hope these text messages shut all that up. Yea, I admit I thought initially she just fell into drunken slumber until noon, though I never criticized her.
That was so not the case. She was terrified with her equally terrified roommate, and these young people were desperately trying to figure out what was going on.
It is heartbreaking to read.
Sometimes these cases drone on and on, and morph into legal motions and hearings and we lose the personal context of the actual crime. For me, these text messages have snapped me out of the fog.

I think the “other” side/the criticism comes from some not understanding the “they were so scared, they went to sleep”. Maybe it’s that they fell asleep from exhaustion, but if you went to bed terrified I would think you may also wake up with similar feelings. And if that’s the case, would you then call for help after waking back up and realizing you only fell asleep because you were so exhausted? I’m not sure.

The text messages and phone calls they made after the woke up, before they decided to eventually call 911, unfortunately IMOO don’t help the criticism of them “waiting”. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, just pointing out why I think there’s such criticism regarding this one aspect.

 

[QB2022]

I think they were scared but I think they had between themselves managed to rationalise everything they thought they heard so eventually dosed off

 

[Megnut]

Guessing they woke up, it all came back to them, they had their text messages to refer to, no responses from roommates who should have been stirring, not even Murphy, and now afraid to go look.

So they told trusted friends for them to go look. No one could have envisioned what they'd found. IMO DM and BF had residual fear and fresh confusion... and wanted HJ to locate everybody sleeping in...

HJ directed them to call 911, from the sounds of it. But they didn't have any more information then then they'd had before, except that 911 was needed. All they had to offer was the roommates weren't responding...

I can't think of much, outside of horrors done to children, more horrific than the reality BF and DM awakened to.

JMO

 

[Balthazar]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1898018062814560617

I agree with the G's attorney. How hard would it have been for BT's office to give the family's a head's up about the document release?

 

[girlhasnoname]

SBMFF

I find it hard to understand how the roommates didn't see that Xana has been stabbed to death. There'd have to be blood at least on her and also on the floor. Plus, her fingers were nearly severed. I'm just not understanding how that could be mistaken for being passed out. But, since she apparently saw the dead body laying there, and thought she was just passed out, there has to be a reason for that, but what?

“Xana Kernodle put up a fierce fight when the attacker set upon her, repeatedly grabbing the attacker’s knife, so much so that she sustained deep cuts to her fingers and that her fingers were nearly severed,” sources close to the investigation told News Nation Thursday.

Idaho victim Xana Kernodle fought back against alleged killer Bryan Kohberger: report

Slain University of Idaho student Xana Kernodle fought back against alleged killer Bryan Kohberger — suffering noticeable defensive wounds on her hands, a report said.

nypost.com

First you'd have to believe NN and the NYP were completely accurate from their 'source' without some clickbait sensationalism thrown in. Xana might have been laying face down and the girls did not want to approach her too closely as they were scared that she wasn't responding to them.

It seems they called a friend to come over, and it's also been reported that Ethan was supposed to have been somewhere that late morning and a friend stopped by. JMO - The male caller using the roommate's phone backed out of the scene and kept others away/outside and waited for LE to arrive.

All MOO