4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #102

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  • #321
I'm sorry I just can't with this. BK had fine enough motor skills to be an avid runner, boxer and apply for a LE job in Pullman.

I think this is why we've seen BK change his body, basically shrinking, in order to appear more frail and weak. Not to worry, the State will have plenty of evidence showing how healthy BK was at the time of his arrest. MOO

View attachment 572253
I agree. That's the weakest argument of the bunch.

I do agree with the defense's argument regarding the jury being made aware of his autism, as he's going to be exhibiting behaviors that aren't what they'd expect. Even I can't say how much that's going to be the autism at play, as opposed to the psychopathic killer in him.

I'm open to the OCD thing too. Some of the evidence is going to involve consciousness of guilt, like wearing gloves at odd times and separating his trash. So if the defense can prove this was part of a longstanding pattern (doubtful), then logically it makes sense to allow it.

It's going to be really interesting to see the prosecution response to this, and what the judge decides.
 
  • #322
  • #323
Stop.

Response to State's Motion RE Neuropsychological and Psychiatric

....and changes shower curtains frequently.....

Putting a pin in that.

P. 7

Yeah, such a very specific symptom that can be used to explain why his shower curtain was missing when he went home for break.

Can't wait to hear how he couldn't have possibly murdered 4 people because of contamination issues.

1) I don't think he intended to kill 4 people when he went in
2) people with OCD are often able to overcome/deal with one of their obsessions/compulsions if they have another obsession/compulsion or desire/need that is stronger in the moment. They then just end up needing to over perform their soothing ritual that is their coping strategy for the obsession that they just had to cope with. I have two older teen/young adult children who have had OCD their entire lives, so I've seen this in action and even seen it with some of the same OCD issues AT is saying BK has.

oversimplified example of this: person with OCD has issues around contamination (for example, in regards to urine). Their phone falls in the unflushed toilet. Now, when my kids were younger, they would not have been able to get the phone out if there was no one home to help them. But by the time they were early teens, they valued their phones so much that they would grab dishwashing gloves or a pair of kitchen tongs and use that to retrieve their phones. And then they'd likely spend the next 20 minutes washing their hands after throwing away the gloves and then consult me or the internet on how to decontaminate their phone once it had dried out.

There are indeed some people with such crippling levels of contamination OCD that they would not be able to retrieve the phone if there was no one else there to help them. But people with that level of OCD about a specific thing would be noticeable to their friends and acquaintances.

Not to mention, by the time you are BK's age you have usually gained enough coping strategies from therapy that you can deal with the issue in the moment or not have as severe of an aversion (such as my young adult who had a major contamination issue regarding the dishwasher now having that issue reduced enough that he unload it when needed...he just did this five minutes ago and then went and washed his hands).

3) Contamination issues don't usually encompass ALL substances considered to be icky. When my kids had urine contamination issues, they didn't freak out if they hurt themselves and were bleeding. The dishwasher aversion kid can work 🤬🤬🤬 a dog walker and pick up doggy doo. It varies per person, but the definition of what is contaminating is specific to the person and is generally not all encompassing.

*sigh* If the defense team want to make these broad generalizations then they better be prepared to back it up with therapy/doctor records from his childhood/teenage time/young adult time that document the specific details and timing of his OCD symptoms....and had better be able to show that an OCD issue that was severe and present at a younger age was still that severe and unable to reduced using CBT and/or exposure therapy. I want to see records showing psych meds that help OCD.

A broad label diagnosis isn't irrefutable proof against a specific situation and time in a person's life, nor can symptoms and severity be assumed to be static.
 
  • #324
Lol. Remember how you were concerned we were going to get all these documents at once @gremlin444?

Here’s a ton of state responses that just dropped, and some orders from the court:

 
  • #325
Well, it looks like this answers our question of what time the 2 survivors woke up and what they did (mostly). It makes me wonder at what time did they explore the house to see if they could figure out why their roomies hadn't answered their texts from earlier 4am-ish hour. Interesting that after a scary night, with a strange guy in the house, they were on Insta and Indeed.

What does Insta have other than pics people post? I'm not on it so don't know. I can only see what little they allow a non-subscriber to view. Does it have a messaging service cuz I can't imagine they were looking at/posting pics after the night they just had.

For those that don't know what Indeed is (unless there's another company with this same name)... it's indeed.com, a job search engine and hiring platform.
I don’t know if they explored the house at all. I know when I wake up, I will take a scroll through all of the sites to see what’s new. I think a lot of us immediately pick up our phones and see what’s happened since we were asleep.
Honestly, Instagram/social media can be a “signs of life” thing for some of us. If you haven’t heard from someone, you take a look at their social media. Did they post a story on Instagram? Did they open your Snapchat? If every single person you are trying in vain to reach has been silent, things get real.
 
  • #326
I do agree with the defense's argument regarding the jury being made aware of his autism, as he's going to be exhibiting behaviors that aren't what they'd expect. Even I can't say how much that's going to be the autism at play, as opposed to the psychopathic killer in him.

I'm open to the OCD thing too. Some of the evidence is going to involve consciousness of guilt, like wearing gloves at odd times and separating his trash. So if the defense can prove this was part of a longstanding pattern (doubtful), then logically it makes sense to allow it.

I'm fine with jury being made aware of his ASD diagnosis in order to avoid any prejudice from his behaviors.

I'm less fine with the OCD because I think I can see exactly where she is headed with this. In addition to explaining away the gloves when arrested and the missing shower curtain, more importantly she's going to use the contamination issues as an overly broad defense to claim there is no way he could have committed murder involving blood.

If she tries that, she better come with receipts...all things that would be documented in therapy or by his school team.
 
  • #327
Lol. Remember how you were concerned we were going to get all these documents at once @gremlin444?

Here’s a ton of state responses that just dropped, and some orders from the court:


Oh, come on!!!!!!!! Dangit, I'm supposed to go make dinner now and then have an appt this evening.

*sigh*
 
  • #328
  • #329

from ex ISP forensics lab manager, Rylene Nowlin:

"7. The phrase “touch DNA” is widely used in the forensic DNA community and was used in Dr. Ruth Ballard’s expert witness disclosure for this case when referring to the DNA on the knife sheath. It is typically used to describe DNA collected from items of evidence in areas on the item that would most likely be touched by the user of that item.

8. The term “Trace DNA” implies amount. The word trace is defined as a very small amount and is used in the scientific literature when describing evidence samples with low amounts of DNA that do not yield a profile or only a partial profile. I would not be willing to use that term and it would be inappropriate to apply that term to the DNA on the knife sheath because a trace amount of DNA is not what was detected on Item 1.1, and referring to it as trace DNA would be misleading to the trier of fact. "
 
  • #330
Lol. Remember how you were concerned we were going to get all these documents at once @gremlin444?

Here’s a ton of state responses that just dropped, and some orders from the court:

States Response, Amazon clicks

There it is. Page 5. ...that BK purchased a Kbar and sheath before the murders....

And searched for them online after... and had reason to...

Makes his click history relevant, despite the Defense's claim to the contrary.

Did BK think about replacing his knife so he could produce it? Or was he lining up his next crimes? Or both....

JMO
 
  • #331
  • #332
Lol. Remember how you were concerned we were going to get all these documents at once @gremlin444?

Here’s a ton of state responses that just dropped, and some orders from the court:

Done.

State's Response, Amazon clicks

Look at the footnote.

Purchase confirmed.
 

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State's witness Michael Douglass--forensic accountant

State's witness Gary Dawson: The Defendant disclosed expert opinions claiming that more than one assailant was necessary in order to accomplish the homicides in the suggested timeframe offered by the State. Dr. Dawson will opine that the victim’s intoxication levels would have impaired their ability to resist, and for certain victims (as detailed in his report) it would have prevented them from putting up any resistance. These opinions support the argument that less time would have been needed to commit the homicides.
 
  • #337
JMO but I don't think BK is deliberately losing weight to look frail, he's probably chronically iron deficient and malnourished by now. Same time, running nervous energy and esp if he has obsessive thinking and autism. He's probably the sort who would want to stay on top of his game, fit and strong. A restricted diet as a prisoner could probably kill any person before too long or result in serious health problems, compromised immune system, central nervous system must be pretty shot too now the trial's live. Watch that space. MOO
 
  • #338
Lol. Remember how you were concerned we were going to get all these documents at once @gremlin444?

Here’s a ton of state responses that just dropped, and some orders from the court:

OMG

Response, Bushy Eyebrows

The photo of BK, presumably a thumbs up in the mirror

I have no words.

Not posting it but you can find it on P 17. You won't be able to unsee it.

JMO
 
  • #339

Applying the test for relevancy, first, Kohberger’s click activity which shows a purchase of a Ka-Bar knife and sheath before the homicides makes it more probable (than it would be without the evidence) that the KaBar sheath found at the crime scene was Bryan Kohberger’s. Second, Kohberger’s click activity after the homicides makes it more probable (than it would be without the evidence) that Kohberger had a reason to search for a Ka-Bar knife and sheath after the homicides.

and the footnote (the picture @Megnut posted above):

The Defendant touches on the issue of identifying the account user making the Amazon search inquiries as shown by the click activity. Defendant’s Motion at page 4. The State recognizes that the identity of the user making the inquiries is relevant, and the State intends to rely not only on the click activity but also other circumstances to connect the Defendant to the original knife purchase and subsequent search inquiries for a replacement knife and/or sheath. This will include the Defendant’s financial activities; the click activities vis-a-vis other events, such as the homicides; a related purchase activity connected only to the Defendant; and testimony from witnesses with knowledge that the Defendant purchased a Ka-Bar knife.
 
  • #340
Why? Why would he have a photo of himself? Doesn't trust mirrors? Wanted to make sure there was no blood, scratch marks?

Wth

Jmo

Record of the day he became a (first time) murderer? Was it even his first time?
I don't suppose many people have ever killed four at one time without use of a mechanical weapon.
If he thought he may evade detection, that would be a remarkable and noteworthy incident going down in the criminology history books and discussed for many years to come.
Must have had all kinds of elevated emotions.
 
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