4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #102

[Megnut]

There's more to safety than physical harm.

True.

And one certainly can object to no-knock warrants on principle.

But to compare what did happen to other ways of arrest is not a 1:1 comparison.

We don't know what would have happened if LE initiated a different method.

He could have slipped them, broken into a neighboring home and murdered everyone in it. He's done it before.

He could have refused the traffic stop, instead plowing his vehicle into pedestrians.

I do notice, in the excerpt/document posted upthread by @MassGuy they did announce their presence. From the driveway. Before making entry at multiple points.

Here's a disturbing footnote of my own. "I'm here to help." What BK said in November, 2022, contrary to everything he did. Meanwhile, those involved in the raid had a signed warrant, to preserve and protect. As they made simultaneous entry, I bet they said something every much like "we're here to help" because BK's family needed immediate protection. If they feel traumatized by that, and I can imagine they would, it is BK who put them in that position. Lawful raid. BK brought all of this upon his family, and that surely is their real trauma.

JMO

 

[Ghostwheel]

A suspected quadruple murderer is an extreme criminal, not by itself, an extreme "circumstance."

This was absolutely NOT an extreme circumstance, IMO. They could have gotten him when he left the house. They could have gotten him when he went on one of his nighttime runs. They could have gotten him the next time he emptied the trash. Etc. Etc. Etc. There were many opportunities to get this guy in the weeks before and there would have been in the weeks after too. There's no evidence he was soon-to-become a hermit isolating in the woods or taking off to some far-off exotic country. There would have been ways to get him without all the trauma and damage they did to the family.

This was a choice.

MOO.

I don't disagree with the fact that the raid was traumatizing for the family, and I'd like to believe there was a better way.

I do want to point out that had they gotten BK elsewhere, that left any evidence they were able to get right when the raid occurred open to destruction by family members (if they were of the type to do so). Even a single item could make a difference, they did not know.

In my mind, the late night raid was to:
Protect LE from BK or possibly family members by using surprise.
Protect evidence that might be destroyed without said surprise.

Again, I don't say there might not have been a better way, but maybe the whole family never left together. I do understand why it might have been done as it was.

 

[NCWatcher]

True.

And one certainly can object to no-knock warrants on principle.

But to compare what did happen to other ways of arrest is not a 1:1 comparison.

We don't know what would have happened if LE initiated a different method.

He could have slipped them, broken into a neighboring home and murdered everyone in it. He's done it before.

He could have refused the traffic stop, instead plowing his vehicle into pedestrians.

I do notice, in the excerpt/document posted upthread by @MassGuy they did announce their presence. From the driveway. Before making entry at multiple points.

Here's a disturbing footnote of my own. "I'm here to help." What BK said in November, 2022, contrary to everything he did. Meanwhile, those involved in the raid had a signed warrant, to preserve and protect. As they made simultaneous entry, I bet they said something every much like "we're here to help" because BK's family needed immediate protection. If they feel traumatized by that, and I can imagine they would, it is BK who put them in that position. Lawful raid. BK brought all of this upon his family, and that surely is their real trauma.

JMO

Interesting he was allowed to drive across the entire country with his dad only about a week or so before the perceived need for a no-knock bust at his parents' home arose.
MOO

 

[gremlin444]

One memory that's been tickling my mind with the discussion of the circumstances of BK's arrest.

Remember how Brian Entin decided it would be totally acceptable for him to walk up to BK's parent's house the same day as the arrest, in the dark, and ring/knock to try to talk to them...all while filming it?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1608989007387688966

(to document where I got my info from)

Disgusted me then just as much as it disgusts me now.

 

[Gigiky]

I do agree with you on this - I am by no means a "proberger"!

Thanks for these points, I think you're right. I just find it interesting to wonder what on earth AT's route will be in terms of the DNA. I also wonder how she sleeps at night. I get it, a defence attorney is a really important job and means that everybody has access to a fair trial. I just wonder what she thinks the more she trawls through discovery and realises how tough a job this will be.

MOO

Same. I think a lot about what she is thinking now that time is getting closer to trial. And I agree that she has an important job (I wouldn't want her job). I think about what she has learned, knows and if she is truly convinced that BK is innocent.

 

[MassGuy]

Interesting he was allowed to drive across the entire country with his dad only a week or so before the perceived need for a no-knock bust at his parents' home arose.
MOO

Huh? They didn't have probable cause for arrest until they had that DNA sample from the trash. What you are suggesting is completely illegal.

 

[NCWatcher]

Huh? They didn't have probable cause until they had that DNA sample from the trash. What you are suggesting is completely illegal.

I'm aware of that. I'm just surprised he became such a threat in a matter of days that they thought he might run amok and kill the entire neighborhood.
MOO

 

[Ghostwheel]

Interesting he was allowed to drive across the entire country with his dad only about a week or so before the perceived need for a no-knock bust at his parents' home arose.
MOO

I have no knowledge of the facts, but a supposition on my part is that LE needed all their ducks in a row before they could act. So maybe they were missing a duck or were not sure something was a duck until exactly then. Or that they were hoping for more ducks being found. As a thought.

 

[gremlin444]

Interesting he was allowed to drive across the entire country with his dad only about a week or so before the perceived need for a no-knock bust at his parents' home arose.
MOO

FBI didn't give Moscow BK's name (as a result of genetic geneology) until Dec 19. FBI had taken over from Othram on the IGG on Dec 10.

BK and his dad left Pullman on Dec 12 or 13, and they were already back in PA by the 19th (believed to have gotten to PA on the 16th/17th).

At the point that BK travelled home, neither the FBI or police had him directly on their radar as the suspect.

 

[NCWatcher]

I have no knowledge of the facts, but a supposition on my part is that LE needed all their ducks in a row before they could act. So maybe they were missing a duck or were not sure something was a duck until exactly then. Or that they were hoping for more ducks being found. As a thought.

That may be true but it is still astounding to me how quickly that last duck made a no-knock bust necessary. That duck apparently meant 1) he was destroying evidence or 2) he was likely to try to kill everyone in the house or 3) he was likely to try to kill everyone in the neighborhood.
MOO

 

[NCWatcher]

FBI didn't give Moscow BK's name (as a result of genetic geneology) until Dec 19. FBI had taken over from Othram on the IGG on Dec 10.

BK and his dad left Pullman on Dec 12 or 13, and they were already back in PA by the 19th (believed to have gotten to PA on the 16th/17th).

At the point that BK travelled home, neither the FBI or police had him directly on their radar as the suspect.

I think that's still unclear. We've been told different stories....
MOO

 

[Megnut]

I'm aware of that. I'm just surprised he became such a threat in a matter of days that they thought he might run amok and kill the entire neighborhood.
MOO

Oh, he was a threat. An unknown, as in they didn't know what he'd do.

But they can't arrest him for that.

And had BK been asleep, not moving from room to room, not collecting something from his car, not bagging stuff at the table, LE may have chosen a different mode of arrest. BK pushed that envelope.

Had they watched him and he destroyed evidence, etc we'd questioning why they didn't arrest him on sight.

They had a signed warrant because there was probable cause to believe he was guilty of the charges against him. That makes him dangerous, a loose canon, a riskful unknown.

By surprise might have been the only safe way to take him down.

JMO

 

[gremlin444]

I think that's still unclear. We've been told different stories....
MOO

Anne Taylor mentioned those dates herself for Othram, FBI, and the day FBI gave Moscow BK's name in the now unsealed transcript from the 1/23/25 closed hearing.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/022125-Transcript-Redacted-hearing-held-Jan23-2025.pdf

 

[SteveP]

Interesting he was allowed to drive across the entire country with his dad only about a week or so before the perceived need for a no-knock bust at his parents' home arose.
MOO

While LE had the IGG information link to BK, and he was surely a suspect, it was only on Dec 28 that the definite DNA link to him was made from trash picked up at his parent's property. That is why he was not arrested before driving cross-country. From court documents, dated 12/29/2022...

On December 27, 2022, Pennsylvania Agents recovered the trash from the Kohberger family residence located in Albrightsville, PA. That evidence was sent to the Idaho State Lab for testing. On December 28,2022, the Idaho State Lab reported that a DNA profrle obtained ftom the trash and the DNA profile obtained from the sheath, identified a male as not being excluded as the bioiogical father of Suspect Profrle. At least 99.9998% of the male population would be expected to be excluded from the possibility of being the suspect's biological father.

BK was arrested in the pre-dawn hours of Dec 30. It seems that after getting the definite DNA ID match to the sheath, LE acted quickly and efficiently. JMO

 

[Baby baby Jane]

quadruple murderer with nothing to lose in a firefight.h

While LE had the IGG information link to BK, and he was surely a suspect, it was only on Dec 28 that the definite DNA link to him was made from trash picked up at his parent's property. That is why he was not arrested before driving cross-country. From court documents, dated 12/29/2022...

On December 27, 2022, Pennsylvania Agents recovered the trash from the Kohberger family residence located in Albrightsville, PA. That evidence was sent to the Idaho State Lab for testing. On December 28,2022, the Idaho State Lab reported that a DNA profrle obtained ftom the trash and the DNA profile obtained from the sheath, identified a male as not being excluded as the bioiogical father of Suspect Profrle. At least 99.9998% of the male population would be expected to be excluded from the possibility of being the suspect's biological father.

BK was arrested in the pre-dawn hours of Dec 30. It seems that after getting the definite DNA ID match to the sheath, LE acted quickly and efficiently. JMO

To add to this - imo, LE acted quickly and in pre-dawn no-knock to get the arrest done safely for LE, neighbors, family
AND
It would be too risky to “wait” for BK to emerge safely because waiting increased potential for leaks now that they had a warrant for arrest. So many would know, and changes in behavior of Penn LE (extra officers called in) etc

and even a rumor that an arrest was coming & became public on SM, MSM - the the risk to lives escalates exponentially. Who could predict what BK would do if it was reported that an arrest was soon, or suspect ID’d by dna, or Pennsylvania LE increased presence.

Acting fast was critical, and before morning Commuters, kids going to school … and before any rumors could get traction on internet/SM.

 

[Ghostwheel]

That may be true but it is still astounding to me how quickly that last duck made a no-knock bust necessary. That duck apparently meant 1) he was destroying evidence or 2) he was likely to try to kill everyone in the house or 3) he was likely to try to kill everyone in the neighborhood.
MOO

You might also consider that the the next to last duck was a DNA match and they had the house under observation for the following morning, not planning to come in just yet, but saw the last duck possibly destroying evidence.

Might have been a confluence of ducks. Again, as a thought. No basis in fact.

 

[Warwick7]

I have no knowledge of the facts, but a supposition on my part is that LE needed all their ducks in a row before they could act. So maybe they were missing a duck or were not sure something was a duck until exactly then. Or that they were hoping for more ducks being found. As a thought.

Actually, there is alot of truth to this.

Once Rex Heuermann was pin pointed they didn't arrest him. Instead he was literally tracked and tightly monitored. Then at a time frame they thought/feared he might kill again they moved in.

The same is with Bryan. He was literally being tracked. Since it seems (in moo) he never left his dad's place. When "LE had their ducks in a row" (the dna match) they moved in.

There are still variables that we aren't privy to yet. We will hear and see it all at trial.

PS...besides, they had to make sure BK couldn't grab a hostage from inside the home...

 

[TenaciousTBacon]

As in Pappa Rodgers??

Elliot Rodger the father of the incel "movement". Is his Wikipedia page an approved source?

 

[Boxer]

Elliot Rodger the father of the incel "movement". Is his Wikipedia page an approved source?

He is an icon, but MOO the movement preceded him.

 

[Bahshudc]

He is an icon, but MOO the movement preceded him.

An icon?