4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #102

[bestill]

I always read this as, "He didn't have to do this. ANY of this." I don't think it speaks to who his target was or the order in which it happened. I think it was just a distraught family member imagining a world in which BK DIDN'T go upstairs, DIDN'T enter the house, DIDN'T kill four innocent kids.

I definitely am in the camp of MM or KG being his target and XK being intercepted while in the kitchen after her DD order (putting up leftovers or throwing away trash or whatever) and chased back to her room, explaining why he didn't really NEED extensive familiarity with the home's convoluted layout: He followed her back to her room.

I also strongly suspect that the roommates had a group chat (we have one for our neighborhood, as well as one for our household; my daughter, who is college age, has multiple group chats with her friends) and there might be some interesting texts there, too, e.g. XK texting, "WTF is going on?" before going silent, which would explain why the surviving roommates would be even more concerned about her initially than MM and KG. I think the texts we've seen are only the tip of the iceberg and that everything else we see is going to keep breaking our hearts even more.

Definitely believe they had a group chat going on. I have wondered if BK saw their phones lighting up with the messages? If he were reading them as they were coming in he would have some idea of what was being said but he really may have not known who was who in the group. JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

Definitely believe they had a group chat going on. I have wondered if BK saw their phones lighting up with the messages? If he were reading them as they were coming in he would have some idea of what was being said but he really may have not known who was who in the group. JMO

He was in and out of the house in minutes. I think it far more likely that the vast majority of that time was spent killing people and moving around the house in the near dark without tripping over things. I don't think it probable that he took time out to try and go through a phone in search of a group chat when he could be making a speedy exit. He seems to have been too single minded for that.

MOO

 

[detectivewannab]

Someone fact check me please. Didn't Judge Hippler just admonish both sides not to abuse the seal? That not every motion meets the criteria? I imagine that's what led to this recent, mass unsealing.

And if that's the case, can we infer that there are other motions which remain sealed?!!

So there may be discovery we don't yet know about?!!! Like potential fitbits?!!!! We know nothing about the DoorDash event, outside of "around 4 am" -- will be so illuminating to learn the exact time, to learn how the timing aligned with BK's movements, what was ordered and when it was ordered and whether any of it was eaten.

What we know is damning beyond doubt, but I'm still so curious about what we don't yet know.

JMO

I do not think BK seen the door dash guy. He was in route to the house.

 

[SteveP]

Someone fact check me please. Didn't Judge Hippler just admonish both sides not to abuse the seal? That not every motion meets the criteria? I imagine that's what led to this recent, mass unsealing.

And if that's the case, can we infer that there are other motions which remain sealed?!!

So there may be discovery we don't yet know about?!!! Like potential fitbits?!!!! We know nothing about the DoorDash event, outside of "around 4 am" -- will be so illuminating to learn the exact time, to learn how the timing aligned with BK's movements, what was ordered and when it was ordered and whether any of it was eaten.

What we know is damning beyond doubt, but I'm still so curious about what we don't yet know.

JMO

Your mention of Fitbits had not occurred to me, but a smart watch certainly could divulge vital information pertaining to, heart rate of wearer and time of death, specifically, among other potential data. The thought piqued my curiosity enough to go digging through photos on the Instagram accounts of KG, MM, and XK. I cannot say that none had smart watches, because I would be shocked if none did, but none were visible in any photos that I could find of any of them. Granted, most winter photos usually showed them in long sleeves or sweatshirts, but nothing was visible in any summer shots either. It seems that they tended to wear little rope type bracelets, but not jewelry such as watches of any type. Another thought that I had was that lots of people take their smart watches off and recharge them overnight, so even if someone had one, there is a chance that they had removed it before going to bed. Having said that, we may learn that someone was wearing one, and if so, we may learn new information from it. And wow, if all four happened to have been wearing them... JMO

 

[bestill]

He was in and out of the house in minutes. I think it far more likely that the vast majority of that time was spent killing people and moving around the house in the near dark without tripping over things. I don't think it probable that he took time out to try and go through a phone in search of a group chat when he could be making a speedy exit. He seems to have been too single minded for that.

MOO

Agree he was on a mission but I am sure their phones were lighting up with messages. I don't mean he was searching their phones, simply seeing them as they came across. JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

Agree he was on a mission but I am sure their phones were lighting up with messages. I don't mean he was searching their phones, simply seeing them as they came across. JMO

A student of crime as he was, he'd probably know that you can leave prints through thin latex or nitrile gloves with firm contact, especially if you have something like blood on them. I don't think he touched much in that house he didn't have to. And phones are an absolute nightmare for fingerprints, I say, typing on my smudgy screen.

MOO

 

[Megnut]

He was in and out of the house in minutes. I think it far more likely that the vast majority of that time was spent killing people and moving around the house in the near dark without tripping over things. I don't think it probable that he took time out to try and go through a phone in search of a group chat when he could be making a speedy exit. He seems to have been too single minded for that.

MOO

Agreed.

We can reverse engineer this through--

We know that DM heard this and that she called out for quiet --

What BK heard gets overlooked. He would have heard DM, he may have heard "there's someone there" --

IMO all the texting and calling between DM and DM and the unanswered ones to the victims all occurred after BK, missing by seconds.

So IMO DM's voice was probably what led to his harried departure from the third floor (whereby he didn't have time to retrieve it) and, while it is laid out in sprawling fashion, it's not a huge house. BK and his stride had every advantage. If BK overtook XK en route to her room, he would have encountered EC, the bigger that. Chaotic. Damage control, uncontrolled damage.

JMO

 

[Gigiky]

A student of crime as he was, he'd probably know that you can leave prints through thin latex or nitrile gloves with firm contact, especially if you have something like blood on them. I don't think he touched much in that house he didn't have to. And phones are an absolute nightmare for fingerprints, I say, typing on my smudgy screen.

MOO

He probably doubled gloved.

 

[Megnut]

I contend that, by virtue of her listening to/watching TikTok, and having airpods in, XP did not hear Murphy, KG, BK, DM, and IMO IF she's the one who said 'there's someone there', it's because of something she saw.

A car, a figure, an open slider.

I haven't ruled out the utterance coming from KG though. Total coincidence that doordash occurred right before/as BK was setting up to enter. KG likely had no idea that XK was awake or awaiting food and no one could have expected a BK, such a strange confluence of two disparate events, interrupting the still of the night....

JMO

 

[Megnut]

I do not think BK seen the door dash guy. He was in route to the house.

I agree. BK didn't ever encounter the driver directly. However, I do think he may have seen the vehicle lights and that's what dictated his maneuvering at 3:59 and again beginning around 4:04, making absolute certain there were no outside witnesses.

JMO

 

[wendy44]

IMO, I think the defence might suggest that the knife wasn't in BK's possession for a while before the murders. I don't think it'll be as cut and dry as "the REAL killer put it there."

IANAL so if anybody knows whether this is allowed, please let me know, but I think it'll be something like this: they might suggest that BK sold the knife & sheath off at a car boot sale, on eBay, to a friend, or donated it somewhere. Then, the REAL killer bought / found it, wiped it down of their own DNA, but left a trace of BK's on the snap unintentionally.

This would make more sense to me. It's not very believable, but seems more logical than simply suggesting BK was elaborately framed. Wouldn't they need to provide an actual suspect to bring this theory forward?

If they did want to suggest BK had sold / given away the knife, do they need empirical or digital evidence for this? Or can they just say it?

Moo.

This is another reason why the click activity after the murders is going to be so important--if he sold or gave away the knife/sheath--why would he be shopping for another one? The only route the defense has here is lost or stolen.

Regarding the cross country trip--Howard Blum reports in his book that while local law enforcement didn't have a name until around the 19th, FBI had the name as early as 11 December. If the FBI took over from Othram 10 December and had a second cousin match (as we heard in the January hearings), this is very possible. They were tracking BK's trip (and briefly lost him when they took the unexpected route) and got spooked when he was pulled over twice. They were worried about other law enforcement and the information on the white Elantra blowing up their surveillance and finally decided to share the name. I've read another book by Blum and he was kind of anti-FBI in both of these books, so there may be some bias in his analysis of why they withheld the name, but I think the timeline fits.
JMO

 

[schooling]

I contend that, by virtue of her listening to/watching TikTok, and having airpods in, XP did not hear Murphy, KG, BK, DM, and IMO IF she's the one who said 'there's someone there', it's because of something she saw.

A car, a figure, an open slider.

I haven't ruled out the utterance coming from KG though. Total coincidence that doordash occurred right before/as BK was setting up to enter. KG likely had no idea that XK was awake or awaiting food and no one could have expected a BK, such a strange confluence of two disparate events, interrupting the still of the night....

JMO

I agree that it could have been KG. In this scenario (all MOO) She likely knew her dog really really well. Heard Murphy frantically alerting to someone in the house. IMO these are the sounds that DM heard above her.

I also think that in this scenario there's an equally as high of a chance that before or in between the dog noises above and her opening the door was when Xana and Ethan were killed. And those were the noises that DM was reacting too and reportedly woke up BF below her. And much of that was left out of the PCA. (IMO)

I know that these things can obviously be framed in a different context. But they are part of the reason why I think Xana and Ethan were both killed first. BK walked in on a alert and maybe sitting up Kaylee and a sleeping Maddie. Hence the fierce struggle and the reported injuries to Kaylee.

And returned downstairs to Xana's crying.


I think the detectives hedging in the PCA on who said those words tells me (IMO) that they were still unsure who was killed first.

All MOO

 

[Warwick7]

I do not think BK seen the door dash guy. He was in route to the house.

I think he went around and around 2-3 times. I feel he saw the someone at the front and circled around again to make sure he left. M00

 

[Boxer]

lu

We are in a position to give our opinions, however. And that's what I'm doing. IMO, it wasn't an extreme circumstance.




I mean, maybe. But they could have also gotten him when he was putting trash in the neighbor's bin. They also knew that he nightly leaves for his runs. Why not get him then? This was not a hermit who never left the house.



There's no evidence that he was paranoid, though I understand what makes you say that.



It's my opinion that no-knocks when innocent bystanders are in the home should be reserved as an absolute last resort. Not a "what if" scenario. IMO, this was not an absolute last resort.

It was a no knock warrant because it was an arrest for an extremely violent crime.
I see it as very well done.

As for outside the house in that area, he would see them coming, possibly see the more than a mile away trying to get in position.
Then running, as physically fit criminals do, he would be running through his own familiar woods, stopping off to jack guns and cars.

Capturing while out at trash was done with the GSK but he was 72.

 

[SteveP]

It's Monday afternoon, after a quiet couple days from the courthouse. Am I the only one sitting here in anticipation of a fresh document dump of new filings??

 

[Boxer]

About the no knock warrant. We have have seen egregious uses and errors with it- people killed from the warrant being served at wrong address etc.
This just isn't one of those cases.

 

[LinasK]

I thought they had pulled a DNA sample from trash and confirmed the knife sheath DNA and BK matched... this, all before the midnight raid.

That's not what I'm referring to. NCWatcher said that LE allowed Kohlberger to travel cross-country with his father back to PA. At that point they hadn't done the trash pull. That was done in PA to my knowledge. They can't arrest someone just on the suspicion at a traffic stop. Wendy44 actually had a clearer response: FBI was surveilling him at that point, but didn't inform the LE who pulled him over for the traffic stops. If they'd had the DNA results then, they wouldn't have allowed him to get to PA, but since they were surveilling him, when they got the results, they just arrested him in PA and extradicted him back to Idaho.

 

[fcavanaugh]

Someone fact check me please. Didn't Judge Hippler just admonish both sides not to abuse the seal? That not every motion meets the criteria? I imagine that's what led to this recent, mass unsealing.

And if that's the case, can we infer that there are other motions which remain sealed?!!

So there may be discovery we don't yet know about?!!! Like potential fitbits?!!!! We know nothing about the DoorDash event, outside of "around 4 am" -- will be so illuminating to learn the exact time, to learn how the timing aligned with BK's movements, what was ordered and when it was ordered and whether any of it was eaten.

What we know is damning beyond doubt, but I'm still so curious about what we don't yet know.

JMO

Oh yeah I think there’s more sealed we haven’t heard about yet and anxiously awaiting to learn more about what else the state has.

As far as I can recall, other than the Amazon purchases and clicks, we haven’t heard anything about his computer or any other electronic device activity. I’m particularly interested in his computer and/or any other device’s search history, sites he was visiting, and of course what else was on his phone like pictures etc. Lord knows Internet searches has contributed to the downfall of many a murderer.

Can’t wait, looking forward to learning more and having new ‘stuff’ for us to analyze and discuss!

IMHOO

 

[Warwick7]

I firmly believe BK was depleted/exhausted by the time he saw Dylan.
Or....he was running out of tme.

 

[Cool Cats]

So will lifetime incarceration if that is the outcome.

He could still kill but I believe in LWOP.