4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #103

[mickey2942]

Compulsion

So is "Compulsion". Bradford Dillman and Dean Stockwell are riveting. Bobby Franks, the victim, was actually related to one of the men, hence they knew his school schedule and where to find him. So damn chilling to know that people like this walk amongst us.

Interesting. Thanks for the book suggestion. I read it last night, and see SO many parallels to BK. The "thrill" of the "perfect" crime. The superiority complex. And making so many errors, in the end.

Just like BK. He must be stir crazy in his cell, going over the "flaws" in his "perfect" crime.

 

[Dexter12]

My opinion: the knife type is known from the wounds, upon doing the autopsies.

The sheath matches that knife. Wounds from that knife were inflicted in the third floor bedroom (and the same knife was used on the victims of the second floor).

That knife matches the dimensions of the sheath. The sheath was found under a victim's body, at the crime scene. It had BK's DNA on it. BK is associated with the sheath.

It appears there is an Amazon record of BK buying a knife AND a sheath that matches the sheath found but also matches the dimensions and edge-shape of the knife used for the murders.

With luck, the forensic analysis of the stab wounds revealed microscopic metallic fragments, now analyzed and consistent with both the Ka-Bar sheath and the knife it held and a Ka-Bar knife. Ka-Bar has a proprietary outer layer on its knives.

My opinion: this is going to be a difficult set of facts to overcome at trial. My opinion is that these facts are not difficult to understand and cannot be swept under any kind of rug.

Of course, the fact that a car quite similar to BK's in several ways drove by the house so many times (including the night of the murders and the morning after the murders) is another separate set of facts. And it's not as if the witness statements about the eyebrows, height and type of dress rule out BK.

IMO. Another odd thing is that BK refused to declare himself "not guilty." Very odd. Stood silent. The judge had to enter it for him, pro forma. Innocent people do not do that, IMO.

Good to see you!

 

[Boxer]

Dbm

 

[Boxer]

Probably she is looking at selling reasonable doubt on the time of the murders in that DM was confused when or what she heard and why she waited until the morning to report it.

This is another dead end street IMO, the prosecutor will layout the scene... dark, late night out, unknowingly had murders in house when it may have just seemed people are loud.

The implication will be that she was drunk and therefore cannot be trusted as a witness.

She reported a man that matches BK.
Not an ID, but does not exclude him.
No subsequent behavior really matters.

 

[Tillyjames]

Interesting. Thanks for the book suggestion. I read it last night, and see SO many parallels to BK. The "thrill" of the "perfect" crime. The superiority complex. And making so many errors, in the end.

Just like BK. He must be stir crazy in his cell, going over the "flaws" in his "perfect" crime.

What is the book suggestion?

 

[Betty P]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1907995224057717059

Amazing work by Gray, putting all of those security cam videos, etc. together. LE has so much data, in addition to the DNA evidence, that it will be very clear to the jury what transpired that night and who did it.

 

[Fleur-de-lis]

Just MOO and speculation, but I think he won't have any remorse ever, and when sitting in his cell, he won't inwardly reproach himself for his mistakes, but just twirl up more lies, more grandiose thoughts of how smart he is(n't), more dark imaginings, and never have self-awareness. I think he won't only replay murdering those beautiful souls, but imagine killing more. While I think something is organically wrong in his brain, it does not excuse what he did., and he is also evil. IMOO

 

[minazoe]

I believe that we will see a different person when reality hits. he will be unmasked like Bundy was that day he lost his shiP in court..I think the awkward stare is learned behavior..I know he has some problems but I can also see through him and he is diabolical...he will argue cops down, he will break and enter, he will bully people..he will steal and stick needles in his arm..he is sneaking and a peeping all over the place..he can lie an manipulates his friends so he can get drugs. he can become self aware and quit drugs then become religiously vegan.. but he sits there like he suffers from catatonic phase outs. I believe he is guilty and nothing he says or does can be trusted. mOO

 

[Nuttymare]

I don’t for a second think he isn’t guilty, or that the surviving room mates had anything to do with it. I can also (semi) understand their delay in realising something was seriously wrong. From what we know the 911 call was made for Xana. What really bugs me is why no one ran up to the third floor to tell Kayleigh and Maddie there was something going on with xana and they should get up. Maybe they did and we just haven’t heard about it yet, but surely then they would have been mentioned in the 911 call. It just does not sit right with me, if I couldn’t get them on the phone I would have went up there to get them up because something serious was going on.

 

[DizzyB]

Amazing work by Gray, putting all of those security cam videos, etc. together. LE has so much data, in addition to the DNA evidence, that it will be very clear to the jury what transpired that night and who did it.

The driving around seems so complicated to me. Is it my brain that is complicating it, or did BK completely know his way around those streets? I would need GPS to make all of the turns and end up back where I wanted to be. We know he wasn’t using his phone. Maybe it would be easier to visualize using a DashCam or StreetView?

 

[mickey2942]

What is the book suggestion?

Compulsion (Levin novel) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[browneyes]

I don’t for a second think he isn’t guilty, or that the surviving room mates had anything to do with it. I can also (semi) understand their delay in realising something was seriously wrong. From what we know the 911 call was made for Xana. What really bugs me is why no one ran up to the third floor to tell Kayleigh and Maddie there was something going on with xana and they should get up. Maybe they did and we just haven’t heard about it yet, but surely then they would have been mentioned in the 911 call. It just does not sit right with me, if I couldn’t get them on the phone I would have went up there to get them up because something serious was going on.

DM saw a stranger in their home. I completely understand why they didn’t call 911 immediately. If I saw a strange man, heard crying and couldn’t get anyone on the phone, I wouldn’t have left the bedroom either. The two survivors are victims of BK as well.

 

[Ghostwheel]

<modsnip - off topic>

What do we see in ID case: lots of locals, lots of potential suspects. Lots of people partying around the house, even. The whole case is based on one piece of touch DNA. For that DNA, as we know, a private database is entered.

Nothing is done for the DNA under fingernails.

In bacteriology, there is a word “fomites”.
“Fomites” are items of clothes or objects that have traces of a pathogen on them. It becomes important during epidemics such as plague, smallpox but many others, too, where the disease can be spread if people use the objects that the sick person has touched or used before. So it is indirect transfer not from host to host but via an object.

So this DNA on the sheath reminds me of that term, “fomite”. It is indirect transfer, not on the body, not anywhere else. Just an object lying on the bed.

While DNA under the nails implies direct contact between two people.

So IMHO, it had to be given as much attention as the DNA on the sheath. The same process, same database, trees, all had to be used.

Why it wasn’t is a question.

We just need to have better DNA laws.

All answers that I got from our participants tell me one thing: why the DNA under the nailbeds has less relevance than the DNA on an object lying on the bed

My observation is different: at the time of the crime, they were of equal relevance and should have been processed equally diligently. You don’t rule out evidence you use all of it and only later start eliminating suspects

JMO of course…

I don't understand the phrase "Nothing is done for the DNA under fingernails." Of course something was done for the DNA under the fingernails, otherwise it wouldn't be in a motion. That the three DNA mix was found inconclusive. The motion states testing did provide a “likelihood ratio for Mr. Kohberger” from the analysis AND according to the defense, proved to be inconclusive. If they hadn't tested it at all, that would be another story.

If it was so important, why wouldn't the defense insist it be further tested? Unless maybe it can't be or they know if doesn't matter or worse, they fear the likelihood ratio turns out to be wrong and it is BKs. That the defense doesn't care does make it less relevant at least to the defense. And IMOO, that it was so mixed that there was not an abundance of any one DNA and that she was out at a bar and food truck and obviously hugged at least who was on the video makes it less relevant than anything found on a sheath that has no reason to be there that is made for a knife that is consistent with the wounds on the victims and the owner of said DNA has purchased a sheath with knife consistent with the wounds on the victims and cannot produce either and has reportedly never been in the house and does not know anyone in the house. Mixed DNA under her fingernails had every reason to be there.

Also, do we know the process for the sheath testing? Did they have an idea of what to compare it to? Do we know if the fingernails were tested/compared to BK before or after the sheath? Or at the same time? If there was no one to compare the fingernail DNA to, it's only purpose is to say SODDI, but since she was out all night hugging people, you just can't get there from where they were. Defense knows that.

Where the evidence leads is not "at the time of the crime". It is a piecing together after the crime, and if the sheath came back positive and the fingernails came back inconclusive, that is the direction it goes. IMO.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I wonder if it's possible the two surviving house mates, not being as close to the others, simply discussed the fact they were living in a crazy chaotic noisy 'party' household with lots of late night visitors?

Perhaps they soothed and calmed one another with the idea of having a proper chat with the others the next day ?

That's what it's been like in any multiple occupancy shared home I've lived in - people sometimes come home in the small hours, after a few drinks and feeling sociable bring guests or strangers or lovers. Sometimes they do random things like cooking up a storm in the kitchen or playing out in the dark in the garden. If you're not one of the party group, you hunker down in your bedroom and make plans to have a serious chat or maybe find somewhere quieter to live in future. You'd never imagine anyone's come to kill them all.

JMO MOO

 

[INfisherman]

The driving around seems so complicated to me. Is it my brain that is complicating it, or did BK completely know his way around those streets? I would need GPS to make all of the turns and end up back where I wanted to be. We know he wasn’t using his phone. Maybe it would be easier to visualize using a DashCam or StreetView?

Hunters typically survey their hunting grounds in advance, plan routes, etc. BK was likely book smart & probably studied all sorts of routes & made practice runs/scouting trips many times. It wouldn’t surprise me if he might have had a backup plan in mind had things not worked out as planned at Kings Road.

MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Hunters typically survey their hunting grounds in advance, plan routes, etc. BK was likely book smart & probably studied all sorts of routes & made practice runs/scouting trips many times. It wouldn’t surprise me if he might have had a backup plan in mind had things not worked out as planned at Kings Road.

MOO

He could also have been lost and going round in circuits looking for the correct turning or landmark?

 

[Nuttymare]

DM saw a stranger in their home. I completely understand why they didn’t call 911 immediately. If I saw a strange man, heard crying and couldn’t get anyone on the phone, I wouldn’t have left the bedroom either. The two survivors are victims of BK as well.

Yes, I agree they were victims also. I do also understand why they didn’t leave the bedroom but I have always put it down to them not fully understanding what was going on - you would never think that 4 gruesome murders had just taken place and I get that. I just cannot get it out of my head that when they thought xana was “passed out” and they were outside calling 911 after having called other friends that came over, why none of them thought about trying to wake Kayleigh and Maddie and they weren’t mentioned on the call. Maybe there is more to come that we haven’t heard yet. I am in no way blaming those girls, I cannot begin to imagine what they went through or what they still have to go through. It’s just the one part out of it all that I keep thinking about.

 

[INfisherman]

He could also have been lost and going round in circuits looking for the correct turning or landmark?

Any number of possibilities - GPS guided at some point long before the murders, possibly. It’s not like Moscow is a huge metro area - 10-15 minute drive across town in any straight direction? The vast majority of the town seems like a standard N/S & E/W grid layout except on the outskirts. Some folks just have a good sense of direction.

But I feel he was more forward thinking when it came to his sinister activities. His historical phone data might be more revealing, if it exists & LE is able to look at to show potential patterns.

I’m sure being a loner, he probably drove over there for innocent reasons at some point, such as for dining & bar going or parties. Then he had his other reasons later.

Only BK knows those answers though.

MOO

 

[Boxer]

The driving around seems so complicated to me. Is it my brain that is complicating it, or did BK completely know his way around those streets? I would need GPS to make all of the turns and end up back where I wanted to be. We know he wasn’t using his phone. Maybe it would be easier to visualize using a DashCam or StreetView?

He was very familiar with the routes and streets.

 

[Megnut]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1907995224057717059

What is interesting to me, and a big welp for BK and his defense team, is the variation in his loop. It seems random compared to his previous loops. Until you overlay the Doordash timing.

I think BK was aware of a moving vehicle (DD) in the tight vicinity of 1122 and, rather than being dissuaded from his mission, he doubled down, simply making sure that vehicle wouldn't cause issues for him.

It's really damning for him because the footage and timestamps suggest he was interacting with the very environment from which his defense team is trying to distance him.

We read about confessions passing the smell test when they contain details only the killer would know. Here we have IMO a confession by evidence. BK's movements (the Elantra that is basically traced from Pullman to Moscow, back to Pullman, back to Moscow, then to the grocery, back to Pullman, then to the grocery store, syncing car, phone, man.

BK's maneuvering (and cellphone history) shows foreknowledge of the neighborhood and his peculiar movements (three-point ans U- turns only make sense in light of the DD vehicle, making it all but impossible to find BK anything but guilty.

Juries love corroboration.

JMO