4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #103

[Boxer]

I wonder if it's possible the two surviving house mates, not being as close to the others, simply discussed the fact they were living in a crazy chaotic noisy 'party' household with lots of late night visitors?

Perhaps they soothed and calmed one another with the idea of having a proper chat with the others the next day ?

That's what it's been like in any multiple occupancy shared home I've lived in - people sometimes come home in the small hours, after a few drinks and feeling sociable bring guests or strangers or lovers. Sometimes they do random things like cooking up a storm in the kitchen or playing out in the dark in the garden. If you're not one of the party group, you hunker down in your bedroom and make plans to have a serious chat or maybe find somewhere quieter to live in future. You'd never imagine anyone's come to kill them all.

JMO MOO

Exactly. Also these two roommates were at entry level in a "greek" social structure, not "civilians." Being uncool, unchill is bad and has lasting implications on reputation. They probably were so happy to have landed rooms in 1122.
MOO I really dislike that anything past their statements of what they reported that they saw at the time is even a discussion as MOO it has no bearing on the murder.

 

[Megnut]

As to the fingernail clippings, we aren't privy to the crime scene.

There may be every indication that MM's hands never came up beyond the covers under which she might have been murdered, so virtually impossible to be DNA from the time of the crime.

We can see by the Defense's motion that the slight advantage to claim it's not BK's or it's some other mystery killer's pales next to the huge disadvantage of having the jury think it could be BK's which is why IMO they want it excluded from evidence altogether. The last thing they want is the jury to think it's BK's.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

The driving around seems so complicated to me. Is it my brain that is complicating it, or did BK completely know his way around those streets? I would need GPS to make all of the turns and end up back where I wanted to be. We know he wasn’t using his phone. Maybe it would be easier to visualize using a DashCam or StreetView?

Yes, he had memorized those streets, JMO. He had been stalking them for a while and probably studied routes on Google Maps, etc. He's that kind of obsessive-compulsive perfectionist. The planning of the murders and fantasizing about them was a big part of the crime.

He got lucky on some things, but did a lot of preparation and research like this.

 

[Betty P]

We read about confessions passing the smell test when they contain details only the killer would know. Here we have IMO a confession by evidence. BK's movements (the Elantra that is basically traced from Pullman to Moscow, back to Pullman, back to Moscow, then to the grocery, back to Pullman, then to the grocery store, syncing car, phone, man.

BK's maneuvering (and cellphone history) shows foreknowledge of the neighborhood and his peculiar movements (three-point ans U- turns only make sense in light of the DD vehicle, making it all but impossible to find BK anything but guilty.

This. The data tracking his movements that night, including evading the DD car is very damning. It shows he wasn't just coincidentally, randomly driving around the neighborhood for "star watching" or a cure for insomnia.

If BK isn't the killer, who was and where were they at that time as BK and the DD driver were cruising the neighborhood? They were no other cars around during those critical moments.

 

[Megnut]

This. The data tracking his movements that night, including evading the DD car is very damning. It shows he wasn't just coincidentally, randomly driving around the neighborhood for "star watching" or a cure for insomnia.

If BK isn't the killer, who was and where were they at that time as BK and the DD driver were cruising the neighborhood? They were no other cars around during those critical moments.

And AT would have us believe he didn't do any stopping so where was his car between 4:10 and 4:20? Not captured on any CCTV anywhere.

She's busy trying to make a distractiom of which way it turned at 2:40-something, which has little relevance except to prove he was in fact driving around at 2:40-something in his white Elantra without a front plate and returning to his apartment at 5-something (which of course is why AT has admitted to the driving around, there's no denying it).

JMO

 

[Boxer]

This. The data tracking his movements that night, including evading the DD car is very damning. It shows he wasn't just coincidentally, randomly driving around the neighborhood for "star watching" or a cure for insomnia.

If BK isn't the killer, who was and where were they at that time as BK and the DD driver were cruising the neighborhood? They were no other cars around during those critical moments.

Exactly.

 

[Warwick7]

What is interesting to me, and a big welp for BK and his defense team, is the variation in his loop. It seems random compared to his previous loops. Until you overlay the Doordash timing.

I think BK was aware of a moving vehicle (DD) in the tight vicinity of 1122 and, rather than being dissuaded from his mission, he doubled down, simply making sure that vehicle wouldn't cause issues for him.

It's really damning for him because the footage and timestamps suggest he was interacting with the very environment from which his defense team is trying to distance him.

We read about confessions passing the smell test when they contain details only the killer would know. Here we have IMO a confession by evidence. BK's movements (the Elantra that is basically traced from Pullman to Moscow, back to Pullman, back to Moscow, then to the grocery, back to Pullman, then to the grocery store, syncing car, phone, man.

BK's maneuvering (and cellphone history) shows foreknowledge of the neighborhood and his peculiar movements (three-point ans U- turns only make sense in light of the DD vehicle, making it all but impossible to find BK anything but guilty.

Juries love corroboration.

JMO

BAM!! BAM!!

 

[Warwick7]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1908296683827634387

 

[gremlin444]

As to the fingernail clippings, we aren't privy to the crime scene.

There may be every indication that MM's hands never came up beyond the covers under which she might have been murdered, so virtually impossible to be DNA from the time of the crime.

We can see by the Defense's motion that the slight advantage to claim it's not BK's or it's some other mystery killer's pales next to the huge disadvantage of having the jury think it could be BK's which is why IMO they want it excluded from evidence altogether. The last thing they want is the jury to think it's BK's.

JMO

Exactly!! And besides KG's parents stated on 48 Hours Idaho murder that MM was on her tummy when she was killed. It looked like she didn't even wake up.

Grr, can't get this to format the way I want.

In reply to @Megnut and the part I bolded in her post:

We may have 2 pieces of information that give some insight as to that:

1) the quote from @Warwick7 that KG's parents told 48 Hours that Maddie was on her tummy when killed, looking like she didn't even wake up (obv, grain of salt because it comes from a parent)
2) https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01...IL2-RE-Vague-Undisclosed-Expert-Testimony.pdf

Dawson Rebuttal Disclosure 2/17/25

This expert was disclosed for the first time in Rebuttal disclosures. His area of expertise and proposed testimony, that MM was severely impaired by her intoxication and could not fight back, is not one that was challenged by expert in Mr. Kohberger’s disclosures. The timing of this disclosure does not leave Mr. Kohberger the opportunity to consider the necessity of meeting this expert analysis. This testimony serves no legitimate purpose other than the inflame the passions of the jury. Mr. Kohberger has not in any way contested toxicology on MM. This is an improper Rebuttal and must be excluded.

Deisher Initial Disclosure 12/18/24

This expert works for NMS laboratory. The expert analyzed toxicology for MM. The report was disclosed. Testimony must be limited to the contents of the NMS laboratory toxicology report.

So, put together info from these two expert witnesses and you have a focus on MM's intoxication levels. And one witness' area of expertise and opinion is that Maddie was too drunk to fight back.

If what KG's parents are saying is true, MM was sleeping on her stomach and appeared to have not moved...and the expert witness is saying that she wouldn't have been able to fight back because of her level of intoxication. Before, the first time Dawson/Deisher came up in the state's list we didn't know who they were referring to as being too drunk to fight back. I, along with many others, assumed it was Ethan. The defense filings appear, IMHO, to clarify that at least Maddie was in that state.

Which would be another reason, in addition to what @Megnut wrote above, for the defense to NOT want the fingernail sample with 3 DNA profiles on it to come in--because it would be hard for the defense to insist that the real killer's DNA is under her nails when her BAC and position she was found in seem to make the case that she never touched her killer at all. IMHO, etc.

 

[SteveP]

Grr, can't get this to format the way I want.

In reply to @Megnut and the part I bolded in her post:

We may have 2 pieces of information that give some insight as to that:

1) the quote from @Warwick7 that KG's parents told 48 Hours that Maddie was on her tummy when killed, looking like she didn't even wake up (obv, grain of salt because it comes from a parent)
2) https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01...IL2-RE-Vague-Undisclosed-Expert-Testimony.pdf

Dawson Rebuttal Disclosure 2/17/25

This expert was disclosed for the first time in Rebuttal disclosures. His area of expertise and proposed testimony, that MM was severely impaired by her intoxication and could not fight back, is not one that was challenged by expert in Mr. Kohberger’s disclosures. The timing of this disclosure does not leave Mr. Kohberger the opportunity to consider the necessity of meeting this expert analysis. This testimony serves no legitimate purpose other than the inflame the passions of the jury. Mr. Kohberger has not in any way contested toxicology on MM. This is an improper Rebuttal and must be excluded.

Deisher Initial Disclosure 12/18/24

This expert works for NMS laboratory. The expert analyzed toxicology for MM. The report was disclosed. Testimony must be limited to the contents of the NMS laboratory toxicology report.

So, put together info from these two expert witnesses and you have a focus on MM's intoxication levels. And one witness' area of expertise and opinion is that Maddie was too drunk to fight back.

If what KG's parents are saying is true, MM was sleeping on her stomach and appeared to have not moved...and the expert witness is saying that she wouldn't have been able to fight back because of her level of intoxication. Before, the first time Dawson/Deisher came up in the state's list we didn't know who they were referring to as being too drunk to fight back. I, along with many others, assumed it was Ethan. The defense filings appear, IMHO, to clarify that at least Maddie was in that state.

Which would be another reason, in addition to what @Megnut wrote above, for the defense to NOT want the fingernail sample with 3 DNA profiles on it to come in--because it would be hard for the defense to insist that the real killer's DNA is under her nails when her BAC and position she was found in seem to make the case that she never touched her killer at all. IMHO, etc.

I believe that anyone who watched the video of KG and MM walking from the Corner Bar to the Grub Truck, and then watched the video from the Grub Truck stream, covering the time that KG and MM were there, would have no trouble believing that Maddie was very impaired, and very likely was in no shape to fight off any attacker after she got home. She appeared to stagger not only when walking, but also appeared to even have trouble standing at times. I am not saying this in any way to disparage her or to imply that she was doing something bad or wrong, because she was not. She was legally old enough to drink alcohol, and KG and she were very responsible in arranging transportation so that they did not need to drive. She should have been able to enjoy her night out, get back to the safety of home, and wake up Sunday with nothing worse than a hangover. She should have been. JMO

 

[al66pine]

Stitching Info Together.

Grr, can't get this to format the way I want.

In reply to @Megnut and the part I bolded in her post:

We may have 2 pieces of information that give some insight as to that:

1) the quote from @Warwick7 that KG's parents told 48 Hours that Maddie was on her tummy when killed, looking like she didn't even wake up (obv, grain of salt because it comes from a parent)
2) https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01...IL2-RE-Vague-Undisclosed-Expert-Testimony.pdf

Dawson Rebuttal Disclosure 2/17/25

This expert was disclosed for the first time in Rebuttal disclosures. His area of expertise and proposed testimony, that MM was severely impaired by her intoxication and could not fight back, is not one that was challenged by expert in Mr. Kohberger’s disclosures. The timing of this disclosure does not leave Mr. Kohberger the opportunity to consider the necessity of meeting this expert analysis. This testimony serves no legitimate purpose other than the inflame the passions of the jury. Mr. Kohberger has not in any way contested toxicology on MM. This is an improper Rebuttal and must be excluded.

Deisher Initial Disclosure 12/18/24

This expert works for NMS laboratory. The expert analyzed toxicology for MM. The report was disclosed. Testimony must be limited to the contents of the NMS laboratory toxicology report.

So, put together info from these two expert witnesses and you have a focus on MM's intoxication levels. And one witness' area of expertise and opinion is that Maddie was too drunk to fight back.

If what KG's parents are saying is true, MM was sleeping on her stomach and appeared to have not moved...and the expert witness is saying that she wouldn't have been able to fight back because of her level of intoxication. Before, the first time Dawson/Deisher came up in the state's list we didn't know who they were referring to as being too drunk to fight back. I, along with many others, assumed it was Ethan. The defense filings appear, IMHO, to clarify that at least Maddie was in that state.

Which would be another reason, in addition to what @Megnut wrote above, for the defense to NOT want the fingernail sample with 3 DNA profiles on it to come in--because it would be hard for the defense to insist that the real killer's DNA is under her nails when her BAC and position she was found in seem to make the case that she never touched her killer at all. IMHO, etc.

and

I believe that anyone who watched the video of KG and MM walking from the Corner Bar to the Grub Truck, and then watched the video from the Grub Truck stream, covering the time that KG and MM were there, would have no trouble believing that Maddie was very impaired, and very likely was in no shape to fight off any attacker after she got home. She appeared to stagger not only when walking, but also appeared to even have trouble standing at times. I am not saying this in any way to disparage her or to imply that she was doing something bad or wrong, because she was not. She was legally old enough to drink alcohol, and KG and she were very responsible in arranging transportation so that they did not need to drive. She should have been able to enjoy her night out, get back to the safety of home, and wake up Sunday with nothing worse than a hangover. She should have been. JMO

@gremlin444
Yes, about the ExpWit's tox analysis & too impaired to fight back and w your tying that to the postiion of body when found (per vic's fam)
Great observation.

@SteveP
And ^ is bolstered further by your reminding us of the Grub Truck vid.
Another great observation.

 

[gremlin444]

Exactly!! And besides KG's parents stated on 48 Hours Idaho murder that MM was on her tummy when she was killed. It looked like she didn't even wake up.

@Warwick7 do you remember which video? On YT I see "Night of the Idaho Student Murders+Post Mortem" (PM is a podcast they added on) for 6 months ago....just the "Night of the Idaho Student Murders" from 1 year ago and the "Idaho Student Murders" from 2 yrs ago.

 

[LetsSolvIt]

I’m following Maddie Soto’s murder case, too, and so much is being released about alleged CSA/murderer Stephan Stern’s phone calls with parents and his quirky requests for stuff like root beer candy and finding his “gray mouse.” A major point of discussion on that thread is the recordings of numerous jail phone calls between SS and his parents.

I believe we know BK has a tablet in his cell, which I assume has calling capabilities.

I am curious about parallels or non, between the jail experiences of Kohberger and Sterns.

• Wondering why we don’t know what kind of things BK orders from commissary?
• Who, if anyone, puts money in BK’s jail commissary account?
• Are there similar or dissimilar behaviors and/or complaints reported for both SS and BK? Refusing to shower? Special diets?
• Does Idaho allow BK non-attorney phone calls through his tablet?
• Does BK talk with his parents? Or sisters?
• If BK talks to folks outside privileged communication, why aren’t recordings of those calls released.

I am certain BK’s calls would make for interesting discussions. Would love to know if BK craves root beer barrels. Something tells me he doesn’t skip showers. LOL.

 

[Warwick7]

@Warwick7 do you remember which video? On YT I see "Night of the Idaho Student Murders+Post Mortem" (PM is a podcast they added on) for 6 months ago....just the "Night of the Idaho Student Murders" from 1 year ago and the "Idaho Student Murders" from 2 yrs ago.

I've watched so many, sorry I can't remember which video it was. I do remember it was just Kaylee's parents in the interview. None of Kaylee's siblings.

 

[Warwick7]

I believe that anyone who watched the video of KG and MM walking from the Corner Bar to the Grub Truck, and then watched the video from the Grub Truck stream, covering the time that KG and MM were there, would have no trouble believing that Maddie was very impaired, and very likely was in no shape to fight off any attacker after she got home. She appeared to stagger not only when walking, but also appeared to even have trouble standing at times. I am not saying this in any way to disparage her or to imply that she was doing something bad or wrong, because she was not. She was legally old enough to drink alcohol, and KG and she were very responsible in arranging transportation so that they did not need to drive. She should have been able to enjoy her night out, get back to the safety of home, and wake up Sunday with nothing worse than a hangover. She should have been. JMO

I was getting ready to post something similar. Glad you did!

 

[sunshineray]

What is interesting to me, and a big welp for BK and his defense team, is the variation in his loop. It seems random compared to his previous loops. Until you overlay the Doordash timing.

I think BK was aware of a moving vehicle (DD) in the tight vicinity of 1122 and, rather than being dissuaded from his mission, he doubled down, simply making sure that vehicle wouldn't cause issues for him.

It's really damning for him because the footage and timestamps suggest he was interacting with the very environment from which his defense team is trying to distance him.

We read about confessions passing the smell test when they contain details only the killer would know. Here we have IMO a confession by evidence. BK's movements (the Elantra that is basically traced from Pullman to Moscow, back to Pullman, back to Moscow, then to the grocery, back to Pullman, then to the grocery store, syncing car, phone, man.

BK's maneuvering (and cellphone history) shows foreknowledge of the neighborhood and his peculiar movements (three-point ans U- turns only make sense in light of the DD vehicle, making it all but impossible to find BK anything but guilty.

Juries love corroboration.

JMO

Yeah they got him. The driving evidence with the phone's on and off, the sheath with his DNA at the scene next to two of the victims, the purchases he made before the murders, the searches afterwards and his after crime behaviors in PA...they got him. JMO

 

[al66pine]

Does anyone see similarities or parallels btwn Lauren Gidding's convicted murderer Stephen McDaniel* and Bryan Kohberger?

2011, Georgia.
Perp= McDaniel, a brand-spanking new law school grad almost ready to take the bar, who thought he was smarter than the average bear? Socially awkward, etc.
Victim = Giddings, also a new law school grad, living in same building, also, studying for the bar. Popular, attractive, etc.


@Knox TYVM for posting link on Lauren's threads about Lauren's fam, renewing their campaign, searching for the rest of her remains, .
__________________

On Websleuths, thread #1, starting in 2011:

GUILTY Thread 'GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 #14'

Jun 24, 2012

Please continue here.

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Thread #13


Media Thread

Lauren Teresa Giddings
April 18, 1984 -- June 26, 2011
Rest in...​

• bessie
• Replies: 762
• Forum: Recently Sentenced and Beyond

A quick summary or refresher about these Macon Law School classmates & her 2011 murder:

Murder of Lauren Giddings - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"McDaniel and Giddings lived in neighboring apartments, and were former classmates at Mercer University According to McDaniel, at 4:30 a.m. on Sunday June 26, 2011, he used a master key to gain access to Giddings' apartment. Wearing a mask and gloves, McDaniel strangled her to death with his hands in her bedroom. The next day, he dismembered her body in the bathroom with a hacksaw. Most of Giddings' remains were discarded in a dumpster on campus. However, her torso was thrown in a trashcan outside the apartment complex."

 

[katydid23]

The driving around seems so complicated to me. Is it my brain that is complicating it, or did BK completely know his way around those streets? I would need GPS to make all of the turns and end up back where I wanted to be. We know he wasn’t using his phone. Maybe it would be easier to visualize using a DashCam or StreetView?

I think that's where this comes in:

BK CAUGHT CREEPING!! Within 100 Meter Radius of 1122 King Road. Crime Scene. Moscow idaho.
Target Map-released
Bryan Kohberger CAUGHT Creeping around the 1122 King Rd home
23 times between July 9th to November 7th 2022 on his 8458 phone.
He was within 100 meters of that home. All between the early am hours
[up to 328 feet ]
Phone pinged 28 times in early mornings hours [10 pm to 4 am] within 328 ft of crime scene
Officer Balance testifies as such

Bryan Kohberger's phone pinged at Idaho murder scene hours after killings and 12 times prior: investigators

Murder suspect Bryan Kohberger's phone was traced to the scene of the University of Idaho quadruple homicide hours after the stabbings occurred on Nov. 13, 2022.

www.fox5atlanta.com

So if he drove around that area 23 times, between 10 pm and midnight, all within 328 feet of the target house, that means he got to know the area pretty well. So he knew how to get in and out, where he could find parking, etc.

 

[NCWatcher]

I’m following Maddie Soto’s murder case, too, and so much is being released about alleged CSA/murderer Stephan Stern’s phone calls with parents and his quirky requests for stuff like root beer candy and finding his “gray mouse.” A major point of discussion on that thread is the recordings of numerous jail phone calls between SS and his parents.

I believe we know BK has a tablet in his cell, which I assume has calling capabilities.

I am curious about parallels or non, between the jail experiences of Kohberger and Sterns.

• Wondering why we don’t know what kind of things BK orders from commissary?
• Who, if anyone, puts money in BK’s jail commissary account?
• Are there similar or dissimilar behaviors and/or complaints reported for both SS and BK? Refusing to shower? Special diets?
• Does Idaho allow BK non-attorney phone calls through his tablet?
• Does BK talk with his parents? Or sisters?
• If BK talks to folks outside privileged communication, why aren’t recordings of those calls released.

I am certain BK’s calls would make for interesting discussions. Would love to know if BK craves root beer barrels. Something tells me he doesn’t skip showers. LOL.

I assume we don't get that info for two reasons. One, there is a gag order from the judge. While it has been narrowed from the initial order, I can imagine jail staff might still be reluctant to speak out. And two, it may not be the usual practice in that county/state to publicize that kind of information. I don't recall getting that info about Lori Vallow, for example. We did hear from people who had been jailed with her after they were released but I don't recall the jail released information. Maybe I missed it though. I didn't follow the case after she was arrested but before she was tried. In fact, I can recall only two instances where jailhouse pre-trial info was extensively reported-- the Casey Anthony case and the Joni Arias case.
MOO

 

[mickey2942]

Interesting. BK was obviously obsessed with the house, or the people who lived there. Crazy, no wonder he was flunking out, he was too busy being a wanna be "Ted Bundy".