4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #106

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #61

Dang, Hippler is coming in hot! He's not mincing words. This may seem like a boring order, but don't skip it---shooting down a lot of defense claims.

So that it doesn't get buried, I'm putting my favorite line first...it will show up later in the post in context:

"Rather, Defendant asked for "everything" and "everything" is what he received. Defendant cannot demand everything under the sun and then complain about the weight of all the planets."

Defense should consider themselves lucky Hippler said this in a file order instead of verbally, on camera, during a hearing. Because I'd try to disappear through the floor if that was said to me.
---------
"Because Defendant has failed to show a discovery violation or due process violation by the State, sanctions are not warranted. The Court further declines to require the State to provide further organizational assistance to Defendant."

footnote 4:
"Despite presenting this motion in briefing as a Brady violation, at the hearing on the motion Defendant confusingly requested that the Court view the motion "not as a Brady violation but as a due process violation[.]" However, Defendant appears to misapprehend the scope of his due process rights regarding discovery. "There is no general constitutional right to discovery in a criminal case." Weatherford v. Bursey, 429 U.S. 545, 559 (1977). In fact, "the Due Process Clause has little to say regarding the amount of discovery which the parties must be afforded... " Wardius v. Oregon, 412 U.S. 470, 474 (1973). Rather, it is Brady and its progeny that serve to uphold a criminal defendant's due process rights with regard to discovery. As the United States Supreme Court has explained, "[t}he Brady rule is based on the requirement of due process. Its purpose is not to displace the adversary system as the 2 primary means by which truth is uncovered, but to ensure that a miscarriage ofjustice does not occur." Bagley, 473 US. at 675. Thus, it is Brady that governs the Court's analysis of Defendant's alleged due process rights violation."

Nice of Judge Hippler to process the violation motion correctly, despite the defense presenting it wrong.

"Specifically, the State contends that most of the data is from cell phone extractions and weeks of surveillance video footage throughout the Moscow area obtained following the homicides. It affirmed on the record that it is unaware of any Brady material in those videos other than those specifically identified in motion practice and otherwise throughout the case. Further, the State's experts who reviewed the various devices (including cell phones) and other digital data have disclosed opinions that they found no connection between Defendant and the victims from the devices and data."

Defense said they wanted everything so that they could try to make an alibi. They got everything.

"The State also notes that since this case began over two years ago, it has continuously turned over to Defendant all the information it received from the various investigating agencies in the same format as the information was received by the State."

footnote 6:
"The State explained that all the evidence in this case was routed to it from the various investigating agencies. Once received, the State would copy it and then place it directly on Defendant's server in the same fashion and format it was received. The State has maintained its files in that same format"

"State points out that on September 4, 2024-at approximately the same time as its discovery deadline it provided Defendant with a 320-page index identifying the location of requested discovery, a description ofthe evidence, and the date discovered. In addition, all of the evidence received from the FBI which comprises the majority-was provided to Defendant with a searchable index."

footnote 7
"In his reply, Defendant asserted that the State utilizes an pensive, technologically powerful case management software program called "Prosecutor by Karpel" which has a global search function to search all discovery and case documents at one time, generate reports from such searches and automatically transcribe audio and video files. Because he does not have access to similar technology, Defendant disputes he is on the same playing field as the State. However, at the hearing, the State disputed its evidence software program has any ofthese features. Instead, the prosecutors rely on a self-created spreadsheet to identify and manage discovery."
"First, while neither Brady nor ICR 16 prescribe the form discovery must take, it is well settled under federal law that there is no direct obligation for the government to identify or itemize Brady material for the defense."

"The State received the information from its investigating agencies, labeled the materials and turned them over to Defendant through a shared access drive in the same format as received. This method not only puts the State and Defendant on equal footing regarding discovery review, it also
serves the important purpose of protecting against claims of missing or manipulated documents if the State puts them in a different format or organization or otherwise conveys them to Defendant in a different manner than received. While the State acknowledges that much ofthe discovery is "completely irrelevant," including surveillance videos and data from the numerous phones, computers and other devises, it did not produce it for purposes of padding the file or otherwise attempting, in bad faith, to hide Brady information in its haystack of information. Rather, Defendant asked for "everything" and "everything" is what he received. Defendant cannot demand everything under the sun and then complain about the weight of all the planets."
*slow claps* Sir, I bow to you!

"In addition, Defendant's complaints of being unable to meaningfully review the discovery ring hollow. Defendant has been receiving discovery in the same manner for over two years. In that time, he has not once sought a remedy from this Court to regulate discovery, such as requiring the State to provide discovery in a different format. He has not sought additional resources under ICR 12.2 to hire additional staff to review discovery or obtain litigation document control software to help organize and sort the evidence. His lead counsel insisted that she be allowed to take on a second high-profile capital case despite the voluminous discovery in this case.'° Further, at oral argument, lead counsel indicated that her practice is to personally review all the discovery herself, rather than rely on associates and staff to review materials to cut through the less relevant information and point to what materials need review by lead counsel.
These actions are not indicative of an overburdened defense team. In fact, it is evident Defendant has been able to capably navigate the discovery given his more than robust motion practice, the scope and breadth of the experts retained and the disclosures filed"

In other words--if you are so overburdened, why are you spending endless hours filing ridiculous motions (not all of them are) and insisting that only 1 person can go through the discovery despite that person also having another death penalty case. Ouch!
 
  • #62
I love this line from Judge Hippler found on page 6 -

"Defendant cannot demand everything under the sun and then complain about the weight of all the planets."

:-)
Since JH brought up AT was complaining about time, amount of discovery & her taking on a second DP case, he should take every opportunity to quash defense motions which are in this vein IMO.
 
  • #63
In fact, it is evident Defendant has been able to capably navigate the discovery given his more than robust motion practice, the scope and breadth of the experts retained and the disclosures filed"
RSBM

There we go. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Layeth the Hippler Hammer down!

1745965572018.webp
 
  • #64
@fcavanaugh

Actually, BK's actions have such far reaching effects. Once you are a "ccrime witness", there is survivors guilt, which is absolutely real. PTSD.

Your life is never the same. You jump at every sound for years. I am amazed that Ethan's siblings had the fortitude to complete their studies, many people would have had huge problems with this, due to depression, helplessness.

The ripple effect of crime goes on, like a rock displacing water, when you throw a rock in water. Who knows who else has been affected by BK's actions...the Uber Eats driver? People just going along with their lives, forever affected by this horrific massacre.

And BK, sits in his cell, eating his vegan food, planning his defense strategies. A death of a thousand cuts, finding minutiae items to make huge drama over...his job is basically sitting there, thinking how to walk out of his jail cell...not guilty.
 
  • #65
Cell phones can't do this - track a person's movements in a house. The victims would have had to be recording themselves to get that kind of detail.....or use a fitness app that counts steps. Their texting back and forth has provided more details on their movements depending on what they actually said in the texts.

2 Cents
iPhones are constantly counting steps. Most people are surprised by this when they go into the Health app. It’s optout. Which means it’s on by default.

It’s been used in the rapper YNW Melly’s trial as well as in the Karen Read investigation.

You can go into the health app now and check it out if you have an iPhone. It even breaks it down by time of day.

As far as accuracy? YMMV, I’d imagine.

MOO
 
  • #66
iPhones are constantly counting steps. Most people are surprised by this when they go into the Health app. It’s optout. Which means it’s on by default.

It’s been used in the rapper YNW Melly’s trial as well as in the Karen Read investigation.

You can go into the health app now and check it out if you have an iPhone. It even breaks it down by time of day.

As far as accuracy? YMMV, I’d imagine.

MOO

I do not find anything to indicate my steps are being followed digitally and I have a new smart phone. My fitness app has people give information and sign up.


2 Cents
 
Last edited:
  • #67
Cell phones can't do this - track a person's movements in a house. The victims would have had to be recording themselves to get that kind of detail.....or use a fitness app that counts steps. Their texting back and forth has provided more details on their movements depending on what they actually said in the texts.

2 Cents

When I first got my phone (either this one or the one before that) we checked the location. It had me sitting in the living room 3 feet from where I actually was in the bathroom. Spooky close, showing exactly where in my house I was within 3 ft variance. I felt like someone could drop a bomb on me. JMOO
 
  • #68
I love this line from Judge Hippler found on page 6 -

"Defendant cannot demand everything under the sun and then complain about the weight of all the planets."

:-)
Someone should compile a list of Judge Hippler's best witticisms and one-liners. This is my absolute new favorite, wrestling the top spot away from "It's not a bad act to buy things on Amazon". That is a book that I would buy. JMO
 
Last edited:
  • #69
@fcavanaugh

Actually, BK's actions have such far reaching effects. Once you are a "ccrime witness", there is survivors guilt, which is absolutely real. PTSD.

Your life is never the same. You jump at every sound for years. I am amazed that Ethan's siblings had the fortitude to complete their studies, many people would have had huge problems with this, due to depression, helplessness.

The ripple effect of crime goes on, like a rock displacing water, when you throw a rock in water. Who knows who else has been affected by BK's actions...the Uber Eats driver? People just going along with their lives, forever affected by this horrific massacre.

And BK, sits in his cell, eating his vegan food, planning his defense strategies. A death of a thousand cuts, finding minutiae items to make huge drama over...his job is basically sitting there, thinking how to walk out of his jail cell...not guilty.
Yes exactly, thank you @mickey2942 for describing the total ripple effect of BK’s actions that I was struggling to describe/put into words and stating it so much better than I ever could.

IMHOO
 
  • #70
Good grief. So people's veracity is in doubt because they identified an attacker in their personal home, but due to the fact the person had been drinking, which is perfectly legal, all testimony can be impeached?!

This has such huge implications. So basically we have have to be 100% sober at all times, in case we are witness to a crime?! In our own home?! Bah. Our criminal justice system is disgusting. We have become so convoluted that the law seems to protect criminals far more than victims.
Not at all. But think. Are you as capable of everything as well when drunk as you would be sober? The average person is not and attorneys love to jump on that. It's not the veracity of the person, it the veracity of the recollection, and it isn't the same thing. DM herself said she wasn't completely clear. And in a way, that isn't a bad thing. As an example, if someone said "At 4:19 I ran to the downstairs bedroom" and it was really 4:24, there are some who would pounce on that as if the person was lying, when really everything was so scary and it was after a long night with maybe a few too many drinks and they were just off a little on the time. Some attorneys may try and discredit due to something like that ( and sadly I see that happening from defense in this case), but most real people will see it for what it is, a person's recollection under stressful circumstances.

My own original point is that having extra evidence from other sources that say "Yeah, what she said." would go a long way to helping cement that anything else that was also said that has zero way to be corroborated (you can't get 'bushy eyebrows' from a location app) is also valid. Say DM says, "Had bushy eyebrows, was wearing black and went out the back door. I was so scared I texted BF (can be proven via texts people can see). Then I ran downstairs so I would not be alone (would be nice if it could be proven with location information that people could see)." If you have proof, that people can see, of two statements of 3, the third has more clout for the average person. JMO and why I hope they pull out all stops. Not that I think DM is a bad witness, I absolutely do not. But anything tangible that backs her up makes it easier on her and less likely for Defense to even try to discredit her.

Obviously JMO.
 
  • #71
I love Judge Hippler's trailing footnote -- "the Court continues to strongly urge defense counsel to request additional resources and personnel....."

P. 11, footnote 18

Forever closing the door on that basis for appeal.

jmo
 
  • #72
I love Judge Hippler's trailing footnote -- "the Court continues to strongly urge defense counsel to request additional resources and personnel....."

P. 11, footnote 18

Forever closing the door on that basis for appeal.

jmo
I fully expect AT, at some point, to ask for a continuance, citing a need for more time to prepare. I fully expect it will be denied. Judge Hippler intends for this trial to begin on Aug 11. JMO
 
  • #73
I love this line from Judge Hippler found on page 6 -

"Defendant cannot demand everything under the sun and then complain about the weight of all the planets."

:-)
Wondering if there’s some regret in requesting the change of venue….careful what you ask for! Judge Hippler minces no words!

MOO
 
  • #74
Not sure if this has been posted here, but it’s a longer Banfield interview with Steve. He says the blows inflicted on KG would have been enough to kill her.

If true, I don’t believe he used his fists, but perhaps the butt of the knife. This would be why that defense “expert” is able to claim multiple attackers, even though it’s not necessary.

31:25 mark I think.

 
  • #75
Wondering if there’s some regret in requesting the change of venue….careful what you ask for! Judge Hippler minces no words!

MOO
Yes I think AT & Co. are finding out
the grass is not always greener, and might be regretting asking for venue change.
Hipp! Hipp! Hooray for Judge Hipp!er being on point/not pulling any punches with the Defense. His punches/blows aka majority of Defense motions DENIED, have come fast and harsh, so much so that I can almost hear AT & Co’s ‘OUCH’s’ all the way over here on the
East Coast lol.

Be careful what you ask for indeed!

IMHOO
 
Last edited:
  • #76
  • #77
AT boxed herself in. Requested all of the  planets discovery, then says that there's too much, that she can't get through it, the judge tells her to hire more staff, she says she likes to go through all the discovery personally, the judge says that she knew how much discovery there was, knew her personal preference for going through it herself, knows the trial schedule, and still choose to take on a second DP case.

He keeps reminding her to request more resources/personnel! It's her job to manage her case; it's not his, it's not the State's.

Ineffective counsel she is not. The State's case is rock solid; BK incriminated himself in every way possible. His best bet was probably an early guilty plea in exchange for his life, but my bet is that he has refused and refuses to listen to reason. IMO he doesn't care about the DP and is just generally an unreasonable and disagreeable person, has to be right especially when he's wrong, and wants to ride this out. He's got nothing to lose because he doesn't care. And actually this is just a new theatre for him, he caused all this to be, and I think he finds great power in it.

Twisted.

JMO
 
  • #78
@Megnut excellent observation! BK has nothing else to do but enjoy the drama. I think he is waiting for a "Perry Mason" moment, where he will, with his brilliance, identify some arcane law, that will dismiss all evidence against him, and he will walk out of jail a free man.

Keep dreaming BK.
 
  • #79
AT boxed herself in. Requested all of the  planets discovery, then says that there's too much, that she can't get through it, the judge tells her to hire more staff, she says she likes to go through all the discovery personally, the judge says that she knew how much discovery there was, knew her personal preference for going through it herself, knows the trial schedule, and still choose to take on a second DP case.

He keeps reminding her to request more resources/personnel! It's her job to manage her case; it's not his, it's not the State's.

Ineffective counsel she is not. The State's case is rock solid; BK incriminated himself in every way possible. His best bet was probably an early guilty plea in exchange for his life, but my bet is that he has refused and refuses to listen to reason. IMO he doesn't care about the DP and is just generally an unreasonable and disagreeable person, has to be right especially when he's wrong, and wants to ride this out. He's got nothing to lose because he doesn't care. And actually this is just a new theatre for him, he caused all this to be, and I think he finds great power in it.

Twisted.

JMO
He could plea at anytime during the trial right? Can it be right up to before the verdict?
 
  • #80
Howard Blum has dropped another episode on this case. And, from what I hear, he implies BK was in touch via email with Dr. Ramsland -- both before and after the murders. I do not have article access. Has anyone seen this, have a feel for what he is saying?? TIA
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
69
Guests online
1,529
Total visitors
1,598

Forum statistics

Threads
632,382
Messages
18,625,549
Members
243,129
Latest member
Philta
Back
Top