4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #108

[SteveP]

Do we think Ethan was awake? Really avoid imagining how horrific this all was. I can't erase the word "carve" now that it's there about Ethan's injuries. And, I don't even understand the phrase "attempted to clean up" because that seems impossible in this bloodbath. I guess, attempted to clean up crime scene could just be him grabbing towel to obfuscate bloody shoe print? I hope he got blood in his eyes. Js moo

I do not believe that Ethan was ever awake. I believe, and frankly hope, that he and Maddie were so passed out intoxicated that neither of them ever consciously felt a thing. Kaylee and Xana, though, very likely endured some moments of extreme horror and excruciating pain, though I pray they were brief. JMO

 

[Megnut]

Do we think Ethan was awake? Really avoid imagining how horrific this all was. I can't erase the word "carve" now that it's there about Ethan's injuries. And, I don't even understand the phrase "attempted to clean up" because that seems impossible in this bloodbath. I guess, attempted to clean up crime scene could just be him grabbing towel to obfuscate bloody shoe print? I hope he got blood in his eyes. Js moo

I remember SG did say in one of his interviews that BK may have swiped a garment to wrap the knife on the way out , perhaps that was a towel from bathroom ,as Megnut said. Yet, that would not explain the "attempting to clean up the crime scene". He's all about him so was obscuring some physical evidence he might have left and I can only think that would be a footprint(s) in blood.

Yes, but that is exactly the sort of detail AT would rewrite. A missing towel -- not that it was used to wrap the knife (which IMO is strongly suggested by what DM described as a handheld vacuum, particularly if it was a dark towel) -- but thst the towel was missing because a crew of murderers took painstaking time to clean with it.

So far, it's worked. We're talking about what got cleaned when I think the evidence will show that nothing was cleaned but something was missing, with an obvious explanation. BK five-starred Locard and took a towel.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

Do we think Ethan was awake? Really avoid imagining how horrific this all was. I can't erase the word "carve" now that it's there about Ethan's injuries. And, I don't even understand the phrase "attempted to clean up" because that seems impossible in this bloodbath. I guess, attempted to clean up crime scene could just be him grabbing towel to obfuscate bloody shoe print? I hope he got blood in his eyes. Js moo

I remember SG did say in one of his interviews that BK may have swiped a garment to wrap the knife on the way out , perhaps that was a towel from bathroom ,as Megnut said. Yet, that would not explain the "attempting to clean up the crime scene". He's all about him so was obscuring some physical evidence he might have left and I can only think that would be a footprint(s) in blood.

"Carve" is such a loaded word. If it's true, that is so intentional. It's not cutting, slashing, slicing. Carving. It rather implies a victim who isn't thrashing... it's measured.

And I just can't shake the move his sister was in. With carving, featured in every single murder.

What are the odds of that? That there'd be a suspect in a murder where a victim had carved injuries on top of a fatal one who happened to have a connection to a movie with the same. Does it prove he's guilty? No. Does it mean that's where he got the idea? No. But it's a curious parallel, especially when considered in light of the other parallels. Sleeping campers, re-appearing items....

I don't want to put more emphasis on a D movie than it warrants but it is one that makes me go hmmmmmm.

JMO

 

[Sachi]

Yes, but that is exactly the sort of detail AT would rewrite. A missing towel -- not that it was used to wrap the knife (which IMO is strongly suggested by what DM described as a handheld vacuum, particularly if it was a dark towel) -- but thst the towel was missing because a crew of murderers took painstaking time to clean with it.

So far, it's worked. We're talking about what got cleaned when I think the evidence will show that nothing was cleaned but something was missing, with an obvious explanation. BK five-starred Locard and took a towel.

JMO

Right, At- suggest something enough and..

 

[Boxer]

Yes, but that is exactly the sort of detail AT would rewrite. A missing towel -- not that it was used to wrap the knife (which IMO is strongly suggested by what DM described as a handheld vacuum, particularly if it was a dark towel) -- but thst the towel was missing because a crew of murderers took painstaking time to clean with it.

So far, it's worked. We're talking about what got cleaned when I think the evidence will show that nothing was cleaned but something was missing, with an obvious explanation. BK five-starred Locard and took a towel.

JMO

Agree - no sheath, then a towel will have to do. Why did a 12" knife look like a vacuum?
MOO because the blade was wrapped up in a ball of towel and the hilt stuck out.

 

[Peppery]

What if the “thud” was BK losing his balance and falling onto the chair? Or (fingers crossed) Xana got in a good kick or elbow to his ribs and he got the wind knocked out of him?

 

[seasideForest]

What if the “thud” was BK losing his balance and falling onto the chair? Or (fingers crossed) Xana got in a good kick or elbow to his ribs and he got the wind knocked out of him?

I've always had the feeling that the "thud" was a lot louder than would be produced by somebody falling onto a chair. More the sound of something or someone hitting the floor. But I could be completely wrong.
MOO

 

[Warwick7]

Wow, are we allowed to talk about Gray Hughes 3-D animation? Amazingly done and scared the daylights out of me.

YES we can!!!

 

[Warwick7]

Being that BK apparently sat down in XK's room, could he have been half-witted enough to step out of his coveralls while still in the house? Stripped down to a body-conforming running suit, his shoes uncovered, walking out with his coveralls wrapped tightly around his knife....

It might explain the shoe tread, the "hand-vacuum". You wouldn't think he could be that stupid, but....

JMO

I think he did sit down.
But, I think he had visqueen or ordinary plastic laid out by his car just to stop on, strip down and roll up.

 

[Megnut]

I've always had the feeling that the "thud" was a lot louder than would be produced by somebody falling onto a chair. More the sound of something or someone hitting the floor. But I could be completely wrong.
MOO

I'm just going off memory now, but iirc it had two parts to it. Like a thu-ud. I can't for the life of me think of anything that sounds like that.

I'm so curious to know if DM heard whatever it was.

Did LE attempt to recreate the sounds, tested from inside the house toward that same camera?

If the sounds all came from outside the house, how well would DM hear them? If at all. Easier with the slider open? Even if just in part?

Could BK have exited the house just before the audio starts? Barely 4:17... the garbled part, unidentifiable, the thu-ud his trunk or car door? The barking because of it?

But then what would he be doing for another 4 minutes before speeding away? That would be senseless, practically the exact amount of time it might take LE to respond to a 911 call, if he feared/expected that.

Tripping, falling backwards into a chair that thumps a wall, that would make a sound but...

It would be absolutely eye-popping if the garbled audio is BK saying it's okay, I'm here to help you...

But what are the chances of a ring camera picking up conversational voices in the next house over?

If it can, I need to stop conversationing in my house and start whispering. Holy moly intrusive.

Or were they just neighborhood sounds and not connected at all?

So perplexing.

JMO

 

[SteveP]

I have never thought of this until literally just now, as I sat here looking at mine, but so many people now have Amazon devices in their homes. Pretty much everyone I know has at least one, and most people I know have them in multiple rooms. I wonder if it is possible that unbeknownst to us, there may have been an Alexa listening at 1122 King Road that early morning. Wouldn't THAT be a potential bombshell?? I have to believe that we would have heard about one by now, but who knows. JMO

 

[Peppery]

I've always had the feeling that the "thud" was a lot louder than would be produced by somebody falling onto a chair. More the sound of something or someone hitting the floor. But I could be completely wrong.
MOO

Either is possible imo. Maybe the chair slid into the wall or other furniture. I’m thinking something like a full length mirror hanging on a door that then crashed to the floor could make the two tone sound. I can’t wait for this trial and some answers.

 

[Megnut]

New from GH, 25 minutes long

Theorizes some more on the door dash driver's timing informing BK's driving decisions. Believes LE might have footage of both cars and are withholding it for trial impact.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

"Carve" is such a loaded word. If it's true, that is so intentional. It's not cutting, slashing, slicing. Carving. It rather implies a victim who isn't thrashing... it's measured.

And I just can't shake the move his sister was in. With carving, featured in every single murder.

What are the odds of that? That there'd be a suspect in a murder where a victim had carved injuries on top of a fatal one who happened to have a connection to a movie with the same. Does it prove he's guilty? No. Does it mean that's where he got the idea? No. But it's a curious parallel, especially when considered in light of the other parallels. Sleeping campers, re-appearing items....

I don't want to put more emphasis on a D movie than it warrants but it is one that makes me go hmmmmmm.

JMO

What do you mean by “re-appearing items” in the Amanda Kohberger’s film, “Two Days Back”? Do you think it is similar to BK’s office mate’s keys reappearing?

What are other parallels besides the sleeping campers and carving? Sorry, I realize the film is available for streaming, but I can’t handle watching gory films. It’s bad enough imagining it in this case.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

In case you don’t have access to the televised Dateline episode that aired on Friday, May 9, here’s the audio-only podcast episode that dropped on May 13:

The Terrible Night on King Road

Keith Morrison sets up, then plays the audio of the whimper and thud starting at 46:07.

 

[snooptroop88]

Do we think Ethan was awake? Really avoid imagining how horrific this all was. I can't erase the word "carve" now that it's there about Ethan's injuries. And, I don't even understand the phrase "attempted to clean up" because that seems impossible in this bloodbath. I guess, attempted to clean up crime scene could just be him grabbing towel to obfuscate bloody shoe print? I hope he got blood in his eyes. Js moo

I remember SG did say in one of his interviews that BK may have swiped a garment to wrap the knife on the way out , perhaps that was a towel from bathroom ,as Megnut said. Yet, that would not explain the "attempting to clean up the crime scene". He's all about him so was obscuring some physical evidence he might have left and I can only think that would be a footprint(s) in blood.

Think Ethan was fast asleep (jmo).

I do not believe that Ethan was ever awake. I believe, and frankly hope, that he and Maddie were so passed out intoxicated that neither of them ever consciously felt a thing. Kaylee and Xana, though, very likely endured some moments of extreme horror and excruciating pain, though I pray they were brief. JMO

Yup, agreed.

I've always had the feeling that the "thud" was a lot louder than would be produced by somebody falling onto a chair. More the sound of something or someone hitting the floor. But I could be completely wrong.
MOO

Me too. It sounds big to me, like an object of some kind with hard corners. It's not like a (how do I put this??) anything that would be cushioned in any way. It sounds sharp and somewhat pronounced. I get "hard object," "straight lines," "corners," that type of thing. (Going to listen to it again.)

Much thanks for those giving details on this movie with the sister because it's bad enough to have to watch BK, I refuse to watch this movie. But am extremely grateful to those that are sharing the details, which agreed, might end up being very important. (And which are so bizarre, and so uncomfortably "coincidental," that it's making me increasingly tempted to watch the movie.)

 

[gremlin444]

Either is possible imo. Maybe the chair slid into the wall or other furniture. I’m thinking something like a full length mirror hanging on a door that then crashed to the floor could make the two tone sound. I can’t wait for this trial and some answers.

In photos in the girls' social media, you can see that Xana has a large round mirror hung on the wall directly opposite of her door (on the side wall, not the window wall).

 

[snooptroop88]

Just listened to a few different versions I could find of the "thud" audio. And when I was listening to it earlier, I was trying to place it, what does that sound remind me of?? Because it reminds me of something. And I realized, and I know this may sound a bit ridiculous, but the noise/thud truly does remind me of this: the sound you hear at the bowling alley as a bowling ball collides into the pins. It's fast, it's over quickly. And it's just this loud crash that kind of echoes, like it's in that very small space, and it reverberates outwards.

So right, I am picturing object/s falling. Hard ones, wood, plastic? I don't think metal.

And please forgive the speculation on this, I obviously have no idea what it is, but the thud just genuinely reminds me of that particular sound.

I like the @gremlin444 idea above on a mirror, and if it fell and shattered, I think that could possibly be the source of the thud.

 

[Megnut]

Two Nights Back

Spoiler alert -- I'll summarize.

Premise: a little girl gets lost in the woods, briefly, but while lost, sees a little boy.

Flash forward many years.

A group of activist teens head into the woods, including that girl.

Several times, while they're asleep, an unseen figure hoovers over them, just watching them.

One camper, played by BK's sister breaks camp. As she's leaving, she gets spooked, runs, trips, breaks her glasses. She escapes.

Those glasses reappear in camp, outside her tent.

One by one, campers are murdered, strangled, chests are carved with a design that is actually initials.

A camper is missing, they find him in a ravine, but can't get to him. The murderer emerges, offers to help them. They mostly decline his help and manage to get to the fallen camper, he's dead, murdered, carved.

Down to three campers, two young men and the girl who was once lost as a little girl.

One of the boys gets his leg caught in a bear trap near a cabin, the girl goes inside to look for, I guess, a bandage. Inside she discovers drawings of a little boy and his mom.... and on another wall, a framed article about herself, about when she was lost, but she doesn't find that until later.

Murderer shows back up, she first leans into him, thinking he's a source of protection... but of course he's not. Oh, did I mention, he's kept his dead mother in the cabin... and later the girl wakes up, alone in the cabin, in his mother's dress?

That's my loose recap. It has elements of every psychological thriller ever made, including requisite steals from Psycho, the only thing missing is a shower scene, but the big knife is front and center, that's for sure.

Comparing it to the real life horror at 1122, some things jump out at me.

Sleeping campers and the watching
The big knife
The carving
The murderer showing up "to help"
The glasses reappearing
Multiple murders but one obsession

Even before I ever watched this film, I long thought BK practiced stealth in his own home, feeling powerful watching family members sleep. How much awareness of it they'd have, I don't know. But now I wonder if he didn't purposefully try to spook his sister, the one who played a part in the movie. Taking her things. Putting them back. Messing with her. Because he could.

If he is the person who broke into his colleague's apartment and rearranged her things, I doubt he just suddenly got that idea.
I don't even know that it would have been his first and only time doing it in her apartment. Maybe it was just the first time she noticed.

You tell me. What would be more unnerving -- to be burglarized OR, having been burglarized, to discover those items back where you left them?

Holy creepy to find things arranged in a way you know you didn't leave them, or, like the key, right back where it was missing from.

In the movie, the murderer watches the campers sleep, his knife, sheathed, prominent by day at his belt. Such an invasion, a violation, yet the campers are entirely unaware.

Was 11/13 the first time BK entered 1122?

Or had he been inside before, undetected? Watching people sleep? Taking personal items? Returning them? Rearranging things?
Is it likely? Probably not. But possible? Maybe. 23 visits, some without his phone. Plus there's precedence. Or, I should say, there might be precedence, since we don't know for sure.

I think it's safe to say -- and scary as hell -- that, while life seemed safe and secure for MM, KG, EC and XK, this crime didn't happen out of nowhere. BK was planning and plotting and surveilling for months. It was building. From the time of his Amazon purchase, from the time he moved to Pullman, from the time he first drove near 1122 King Road, they were never safe.

He was already lurking in the shadows.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

In case you don’t have access to the televised Dateline episode that aired on Friday, May 9, here’s the audio-only podcast episode that dropped on May 13:

The Terrible Night on King Road

Keith Morrison sets up, then plays the audio of the whimper and thud starting at 46:07.

Thanks for the link. It queues up for me at 47:30.

That sound is going to drive me mad.

It's not unfamiliar.

I don't think it's a mirror. Not metallic, not glass breaking.

It actually sounds like someone wrestling with a stuck drawer that opens and is slammed shut. While I don't think it IS that, it's the closest I can get in the the rollodex of sounds in my brain. Maybe a door?

If the barking is from a neighbor dog, could those sounds be artifact from that neighbor's home and just pure coincidence?

Try this:

The garbled sound is the dog barking INSIDE a house
The THUD is a door
Now the barking is OUTSIDE

The cadence is the same

JMO