4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #97

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  • #481
I looked at the T-mobile map and there was total coverage (albeit at 4G) everywhere south of Moscow near Rte 95.

Given this, I think the prosecution is going to try to show that it is unlikely that he lost reception from N of Moscow to S of Moscow only to pick up a cell tower near Blaine.

This is more damning than I initially thought.
 
  • #482
I looked at the T-mobile map and there was total coverage (albeit at 4G) everywhere south of Moscow near Rte 95.

Given this, I think the prosecution is going to try to show that it is unlikely that he lost reception from N of Moscow to S of Moscow only to pick up a cell tower near Blaine.

This is more damning than I initially thought.
The defendant had/has ATT as a carrier not T-mobile. Your coverage can vary from carrier to carrier meaning T-mobile subscriber may not have the same coverage as an ATT subscriber has. Also the T-mobile map that you looked at is based on currently what T-mobile has uploaded and this case started back in Dec 2022 so we have to know like how was the carrier coverage for ATT in Washington State and Idaho during that time, and after LE collected his personal cell phone and when FBI did the test drive in 2023. There could have been more towers added to Washington and Idaho states since then so now there is more coverage. IMO.
 
  • #483
What will be interesting is where exactly he turned his phone back on in relation to the cell tower.

If his phone was CAPABLE of getting at signal 2 miles closer to the cell tower than when it did. (that is, his phone didn't connect with the cell tower until way after it was theoretically within range), then, by inference.. he turned it back on himself.
I want to see the drive testing too.
I wonder if LE took his cell phone out there and did a test near Blaine coming in from the south, just to see where it might connect.
LE did drive testing. SR testified about it and about the missing pieces of it (270 and the house). Like @PinkParis2052 posted, drive testing has to be done near the time of the offense because the towers change.
Actually, I am going to see if I can find the map of the Blaine cell tower and the expected range. if it reached almsot all the way north back to Moscow.. that is something
Have to check what the tower looked like back in Nov 2022.

jmo
 
  • #484
  • #485
Agree.
The D does have discovery though, which is more than what we know.
jmo

It will all depend on if the D has any supporting evidence that is substantial.

And I wonder:
If the D did think there was a possibility that the 270 car is his, why would they be pushing so hard to locate it?
If LE thinks it is his car on 270, why are they not doing everything they can to locate that video and use it? Maybe they have tried?
And
Where is the video? It was submitted into evidence per BP testimony, why is it not there?


jmo
RBBM.
Does BP's testimony or AT herself during that hearing actually confirm defense does not, or more correctly I guess, did not at 30th May this year, have the Floyd's video?

I wanted to clear this up so once again just watched Payne's testimony and AT's questions to him re videos located at MPD depository, but not specifically in D's possession by that date, and just could not find a specific mention of the Floyd's Cannabis business video ( located on 270 between the two towns).

AT imo refers specifically to one video on 270 within Moscow city limits called Red Star Coffee Company, as far as I can tell. She spends the majority of the time asking about videos south on Main Street/Hwy 95. Moo

To double check I also listened to AT later as she went through various items subject to the MTC. Had to listen to that entire section to hear about various video items, and again, no specific mention of the Floyd's Cannabis business video not being in the possession of the Defense. Again, I may have missed it but I was listening out for it. Perhaps the mention is there somewhere?

Jmo, I think defense had Floyd's video at the time of this hearing. And I believe they had it at the time they submitted their additional Alibi info this year in April ( in link you provided in previous post) which is why they mention it.

Moo, in that Alibi response D are claiming it is not BK's car because their client says it's not because he is claiming he wasn't driving on 270 at the relevant time. Of course, this doesn't mean that is the truth. Moo

Imo the Floyd's camera would be distant to cars travelling along 270, so although footage may show a white sedan, even possibly an Elantra, it is probable night time footage is not going to be more detailed than that.

If this footage aligns time wise with previous footage mentioned in arrest PCA which has BK heading towards 270 at approx 2.50am, then that is nonetheless useful for the prosecution's case. Moo. Ofcourse we don't know definitively the timing of Floyd's footage but the fact the defense themselves mention it in 2024 Alibi response makes me think it may be important in the timeline.

Location of Red Star Coffee Company on 270.

1046 Pullman Rd, Moscow, ID 83843, United States

Location of Floyd's On 270 ( notice distance from the Business - entrance is on Airport Drive imo - to the actual main road 270)

5962 Airport Rd, Pullman, WA 99163, USA

ETA my links to google maps locations didn't work out, but Floyd's is about midway between Pullman and Moscow, corner Airport Drive and 270. Red Star is within Moscow City Limits, west Moscow on 270, close to Peterson Road,/ Street intersection.
 
  • #486
The defendant had/has ATT as a carrier not T-mobile. Your coverage can vary from carrier to carrier meaning T-mobile subscriber may not have the same coverage as an ATT subscriber has. Also the T-mobile map that you looked at is based on currently what T-mobile has uploaded and this case started back in Dec 2022 so we have to know like how was the carrier coverage for ATT in Washington State and Idaho during that time, and after LE collected his personal cell phone and when FBI did the test drive in 2023. There could have been more towers added to Washington and Idaho states since then so now there is more coverage. IMO.

yeh, I was assuming the tower was rented out to other companies like most are and that coverage would be available for any carrier. may or may not be the case
 
  • #487
I think there actually is video of a white Elantra traveling east toward Moscow, but the defense disputes that it's BK's Elantra. It's not in the PCA, but in the Supplemental Response to the State's Alibi Demand the defense says:

"Mr. Kohberger intends to offer testimony of Sy Ray, CSLI expert, (cell tower, cell phone and other radio frequency, curricula vitae is attached) to show that Bryan Kohberger's mobile device was south of Pullman, Washington and west of Moscow, Idaho on November 13, 2022; that Bryan Kohberger's mobile device did not travel east on the Moscow-Pullman Highway in the early morning hours of November 13, and thus could not be the vehicle captured on video along the Moscow-Pullman Highway near Floyd's Cannabis Shop."
There's no mention in the motion of the time stamp on this video, but it shows that the prosecution has additional video not included in the PCA. Floyd's is on the route that you would likely take going from Pullman to King Rd. It's kind of interesting that the defense chooses to dispute this video, but none of the ones that we know about in the PCA.

2:42am--BK's phone using cellular resources at his residence

2:44am--vehicle consistent with description of Elantra observed on WSU surveillance cameras traveling north on southeast Nevada St at northeast Stadium Way (not disputed--consistent with movements of phone)

2:47am--BK's phone used resources that provide coverage southeast of residence consistent with phone leaving residence and traveling south through Pullman

2:53am--white sedan observed traveling southeast on Nevada St in Pullman towards SR 270, which connects Pullman to Moscow (not disputed--consistent with movements of phone, but phone has stopped reporting to the network by this point)

Between 2:53am and 3:25am--video of white sedan traveling east on 270 toward Moscow (disputed by defense)

3:25am--white sedan westbound in 700 block of Indian Hills Dr Moscow (not disputed)

3:28am--vehicle westbound on Styner Ave at Idaho State Highway 95 in Moscow (not disputed--in at least one of these videos it appeared the vehicle was not displaying a front license plate)

3:29am--review of footage from multiple videos obtained in King Rd neighborhood showed multiple sightings of the suspect vehicle starting at 3:29am, including three passes by 1122 King Rd. Review of the video showed only a few cars enter and exit at this time (not disputed)

4:04am--seen entering a 4th time, driving eastbound on King Rd, stopping and turning around in front of 500 Queen Rd, then driving back westbound King Rd. Seen attempting to park or turn around in the road, made a 3-point turn at the intersection of Queen Rd and King Rd, then drove eastbound again down Queen Rd (not disputed)

4:20am--vehicle seen departing area of King Rd residence at high rate of speed and next observed traveling southbound on Walenta Dr (not disputed)

4:48am--the phone starts reporting to the network again, using services that provide coverage to Idaho State Highway 95 south of Moscow near Blaine, Idaho. Depending on where exactly that is, it's about 15 minutes south of King Rd--completely consistent with leaving King Rd at 4:20am, stopping somewhere to ditch whatever he needed to ditch, then turning his phone back on as he made the loop back home.

Why does that defense dispute that one video at Floyd's that shows him traveling east, but not any of the video actually near King Rd? It must be the weakest visually, but if the time stamp logically fits with the time the car left Pullman and time it's allegedly seen at King Rd, it's going to be hard to convince the jury it's not the same car.

JMO
Thanks for this summary. Good point regarding the Floyd's video and it's possible significance as far as D's contentions are concerned. Makes sense that it may be weak visually relative to King Road neighbourhood footage, especially when considering the potential distance between the building and 270 hwy, in addition to the speed cars are likely to be doing on a hwy vs neighbourhood back streets.

In fact it was your post here that gave me motive to go through MTC hearing from May this year to try to be sure the d was not saying Floyd's footage was not in their possession. I think it was very likely in their possession because they actually reference it in Alibi response. Jmo
 
  • #488
(Snipped for focus)

The D wants the video on 270 (MTC hearing).
AT was told in order to locate it, she would have to go look for it by watching all the videos.
IMO the D wants the 270 video to show it is not Bks car.


RBBM & RSBM

Moo, AT is talking about Red Star Coffee Company video footage within Moscow limits on 270. I can't find ref to Floyd's in particular during questioning of BP. ICBW and totally open to having missed it, so would really appreciate time stamp where Floyd's is mentioned. Sorry for repetitiveness! It would be good to clear up, appreciating it is often hard to decipher particulars when listening to testimony and counsel questioning which jumps around from one topic to another. Jmo.
 
  • #489
RBBM.
Does BP's testimony or AT herself during that hearing actually confirm defense does not, or more correctly I guess, did not at 30th May this year, have the Floyd's video?

I wanted to clear this up so once again just watched Payne's testimony and AT's questions to him re videos located at MPD depository, but not specifically in D's possession by that date, and just could not find a specific mention of the Floyd's Cannabis business video ( located on 270 between the two towns).

AT imo refers specifically to one video on 270 within Moscow city limits called Red Star Coffee Company, as far as I can tell. She spends the majority of the time asking about videos south on Main Street/Hwy 95. Moo

To double check I also listened to AT later as she went through various items subject to the MTC. Had to listen to that entire section to hear about various video items, and again, no specific mention of the Floyd's Cannabis business video not being in the possession of the Defense. Again, I may have missed it but I was listening out for it. Perhaps the mention is there somewhere?

Jmo, I think defense had Floyd's video at the time of this hearing. And I believe they had it at the time they submitted their additional Alibi info this year in April ( in link you provided in previous post) which is why they mention it.

Moo, in that Alibi response D are claiming it is not BK's car because their client says it's not because he is claiming he wasn't driving on 270 at the relevant time. Of course, this doesn't mean that is the truth. Moo

Imo the Floyd's camera would be distant to cars travelling along 270, so although footage may show a white sedan, even possibly an Elantra, it is probable night time footage is not going to be more detailed than that.

If this footage aligns time wise with previous footage mentioned in arrest PCA which has BK heading towards 270 at approx 2.50am, then that is nonetheless useful for the prosecution's case. Moo. Ofcourse we don't know definitively the timing of Floyd's footage but the fact the defense themselves mention it in 2024 Alibi response makes me think it may be important in the timeline.

Location of Red Star Coffee Company on 270.

1046 Pullman Rd, Moscow, ID 83843, United States

Location of Floyd's On 270 ( notice distance from the Business - entrance is on Airport Drive imo - to the actual main road 270)

5962 Airport Rd, Pullman, WA 99163, USA

ETA my links to google maps locations didn't work out, but Floyd's is about midway between Pullman and Moscow, corner Airport Drive and 270. Red Star is within Moscow City Limits, west Moscow on 270, close to Peterson Road,/ Street intersection.
No you are right.
I was referring to Red Star and not Floyds. My apologies.

Red Star is much closer to 270 than Floyds and would show more than just a distant white car IMO. There seems be a white car that is traveling East on 270.

I specifically recall two videos the D did not have. One on 270 (coffee) and the Construction company headed West toward Pullman (forget the name of the business). The videos heading S on 95 that AT brought up were 5-6AM videos.

jmo
 
  • #490
RBBM & RSBM

Moo, AT is talking about Red Star Coffee Company video footage within Moscow limits on 270. I can't find ref to Floyd's in particular during questioning of BP. ICBW and totally open to having missed it, so would really appreciate time stamp where Floyd's is mentioned. Sorry for repetitiveness! It would be good to clear up, appreciating it is often hard to decipher particulars when listening to testimony and counsel questioning which jumps around from one topic to another. Jmo.
I answered as soon as I saw the post.
 
  • #491
He is too arrogant to take a plea deal- I believe he is one of those killers that thinks he is the smartest person in the room
Yes @ilovewings ….. and for those that followed a certain case in Florida recently, have to wonder if we might have a slight repeat of the case of Sarah Boone. Will be interesting to see how this BK case and trial unfolds. MOO
 
  • #492
No you are right.
I was referring to Red Star and not Floyds. My apologies.

Red Star is much closer to 270 than Floyds and would show more than just a distant white car IMO. There seems be a white car that is traveling East on 270.

I specifically recall two videos the D did not have. One on 270 (coffee) and the Construction company headed West toward Pullman (forget the name of the business). The videos heading S on 95 that AT brought up were 5-6AM videos.

jmo
Thanks for that, didn't see this until after I already posted my second reply. I believe the Floyd's video has significance timing wise because mentioned in Alibi response.

We don't know what the video shows from Red Star Coffee Company. I think it's quite possible Red star had no footage of white sedans at critical time. If it did, I think p would have had it in their own discovery by then ( ie separated from the umbrella repository)Jmo.

There are roads BK could have taken after Floyd's to avoid travelling through central Moscow if that is his car in the Floyd's footage. There are also off hwy routes that will get a person to east of 95/Main St. in Moscow, from Nevada in Pullman, which avoid 270 all together. Moo
 
  • #493
Where was he traveling North from at 2:44?
jmo
270 is less than two miles south of his apartment and traveling south on Stadium Way to get there would make sense. Nevada St is a loop off of Stadium Way on the left right before you get to the intersection of Stadium Way and 270 where you'd turn left to go east toward Moscow. I think he was going north on Nevada there because he was turning around on that loop, likely several times since it caught him going north first and south second. He might have tried to cut through the apartments there to get on 270 or taken the turn early and got confused.
JMO
The D wants the video on 270 (MTC hearing).
AT was told in order to locate it, she would have to go look for it by watching all the videos.
IMO the D wants the 270 video to show it is not Bks car.
That video doesn't really address my two points though. One, that there's no evidence he traveled east from Pullman to Moscow. The prosecution alleges there is. Two, that it's interesting the defense disputes the Floyd's video, but not the video at the actual scene in the all-important alibi response.

At the very minimum the defense has a time stamp on that video (if not the entire video) to be able to claim Sy Ray will show BK's mobile device was south of Pullman and west of Moscow when the vehicle was captured on that video. Otherwise, how could they claim to know via Sy Ray his car wasn't there? They would need the time. And Floyd's is only 3 miles and 8 minutes from the King Rd house. If you have evidence that the vehicle in the Floyd's video could not have been BK, don't you also have evidence the videos near King Rd could not have been BK? If you have evidence he was south of Pullman and west of Moscow in the 3:10-3:15 am-ish time frame, don't you also have evidence he wasn't at King Rd around 3:25am? So why not dispute the Moscow/King Rd video in the alibi response. Wouldn't this have been a stronger alibi response? Why risk it when you know the prosecution is saying your alibi response doesn't meet Idaho code.

If Sy Ray is able to offer testimony that BK's mobile device was not in the area of Floyd's at 3:15am-ish, he should also be able to offer testimony that BK's mobile device was not in the area 3 miles away at 3:25am.

Snipped by me/JMO
 
  • #494
270 is less than two miles south of his apartment and traveling south on Stadium Way to get there would make sense. Nevada St is a loop off of Stadium Way on the left right before you get to the intersection of Stadium Way and 270 where you'd turn left to go east toward Moscow. I think he was going north on Nevada there because he was turning around on that loop, likely several times since it caught him going north first and south second. He might have tried to cut through the apartments there to get on 270 or taken the turn early and got confused.
JMO

That video doesn't really address my two points though. One, that there's no evidence he traveled east from Pullman to Moscow. The prosecution alleges there is. Two, that it's interesting the defense disputes the Floyd's video, but not the video at the actual scene in the all-important alibi response.

At the very minimum the defense has a time stamp on that video (if not the entire video) to be able to claim Sy Ray will show BK's mobile device was south of Pullman and west of Moscow when the vehicle was captured on that video. Otherwise, how could they claim to know via Sy Ray his car wasn't there? They would need the time. And Floyd's is only 3 miles and 8 minutes from the King Rd house. If you have evidence that the vehicle in the Floyd's video could not have been BK, don't you also have evidence the videos near King Rd could not have been BK? If you have evidence he was south of Pullman and west of Moscow in the 3:10-3:15 am-ish time frame, don't you also have evidence he wasn't at King Rd around 3:25am? So why not dispute the Moscow/King Rd video in the alibi response. Wouldn't this have been a stronger alibi response? Why risk it when you know the prosecution is saying your alibi response doesn't meet Idaho code.

If Sy Ray is able to offer testimony that BK's mobile device was not in the area of Floyd's at 3:15am-ish, he should also be able to offer testimony that BK's mobile device was not in the area 3 miles away at 3:25am.

Snipped by me/JMO
There is proof he drove to Moscow. DNA at the murder scene.
 
  • #495
270 is less than two miles south of his apartment and traveling south on Stadium Way to get there would make sense. Nevada St is a loop off of Stadium Way on the left right before you get to the intersection of Stadium Way and 270 where you'd turn left to go east toward Moscow. I think he was going north on Nevada there because he was turning around on that loop, likely several times since it caught him going north first and south second. He might have tried to cut through the apartments there to get on 270 or taken the turn early and got confused.
JMO

That video doesn't really address my two points though. One, that there's no evidence he traveled east from Pullman to Moscow. The prosecution alleges there is. Two, that it's interesting the defense disputes the Floyd's video, but not the video at the actual scene in the all-important alibi response.

At the very minimum the defense has a time stamp on that video (if not the entire video) to be able to claim Sy Ray will show BK's mobile device was south of Pullman and west of Moscow when the vehicle was captured on that video. Otherwise, how could they claim to know via Sy Ray his car wasn't there? They would need the time. And Floyd's is only 3 miles and 8 minutes from the King Rd house. If you have evidence that the vehicle in the Floyd's video could not have been BK, don't you also have evidence the videos near King Rd could not have been BK? If you have evidence he was south of Pullman and west of Moscow in the 3:10-3:15 am-ish time frame, don't you also have evidence he wasn't at King Rd around 3:25am? So why not dispute the Moscow/King Rd video in the alibi response. Wouldn't this have been a stronger alibi response? Why risk it when you know the prosecution is saying your alibi response doesn't meet Idaho code.

If Sy Ray is able to offer testimony that BK's mobile device was not in the area of Floyd's at 3:15am-ish, he should also be able to offer testimony that BK's mobile device was not in the area 3 miles away at 3:25am.

Snipped by me/JMO
I just can't see Sy Ray testifying about anything to do with the so called alibi if BK had his phone turned off between 2.50am approx and 4.48am ie the two hours surrounding the actual crime. Defense used this guy in the MTC hearing but does he locate turned off cell phones? I didn't see that included in his CV attached to D's 4th motion to compel in May. Jmo

Next up all moo: BK travelled from Pullman to Indian Hills Drive between c 2.50am and 3.25am. Imo with his phone off. The quickest route direct down 270 is only a 15 minute drive at that time in the early morning. So if that is Bk's car in the Floyd's footage but there is no white sedan in Red Star 270 footage from west Moscow city limits ( and other business/gas station/traffic etc cameras in central Moscow), then imo he left 270 and took a back road route not long after passing Floyd's. This would account for the extra time it took for him to reach Indian Hills.

Imo Sy Ray is some kind of red herring as far as BK's 'alibi' is concerned. It's video footage or lack thereof that AT is after to somehow show BK was anywhere but Moscow between approx 3.25am and 4.20am. Basically she would want him somewhere at the critical time that allows him to intersect with hwy 95 near Blaine ( ie emerge from some back road) at 4.48am where he just happens to turn on his phone again. Jmo

Moo, the alibi is hopeless unless BK testifies, because I doubt AT is going to find some suggestive footage somewhere west and south of Moscow to even insinuate BK was out of range of 1122 King Road between 3.25am ( SV1 on Indian hills) and 4.20am ( SV 1 leaving Local King Road Neighbourhood). Defense wants the DNA out, but given that is not going to happen jmo I don't think an alibi defense is going to get off the ground.

Although I guess Judge Hippler is a bit of an unknown in terms of how he'll deal with relevant ICR rule. As it currently stands the 'alibi' does not meet basic requirements. Jmo
 
  • #496
There is proof he drove to Moscow. DNA at the murder scene.

It could be argued his DNA was cross transferred or the knife had his DNA from prior the murder scene. Perhaps he gave a lift to the real murderer and is covering for them? I don't believe that but in law they do need to be certain.
 
  • #497
.
Posting this here for info as in the UK, a young male criminology student has perpetrated a murder in order to try and commit the perfect crime and for the notoriety it may bring, there's quite a lot of similarity IMO. It seems to be a real thing that someone kills for no other reason that playing a game :(
.
 
  • #498
IMO, it's because BK has no Alibi, this is the closest thing to one they could come up with and I agree it's weak. In ID the Defense has to state their alibi if they plan on using it in court IIRC?

JMO

Yes - BK had to reverse engineer it around the incriminating evidence. This is where I prefer the UK rules post law reform in that country. In the UK he would have been confronted with the incriminating evidence at an initial interrogation and would have the chance to explain it, but had he not done so, that could lead to adverse direction from the Judge at trial if he later invented a new alibi not disclosed at the time.
I just can't see Sy Ray testifying about anything to do with the so called alibi if BK had his phone turned off between 2.50am approx and 4.48am ie the two hours surrounding the actual crime. Defense used this guy in the MTC hearing but does he locate turned off cell phones? I didn't see that included in his CV attached to D's 4th motion to compel in May. Jmo

Next up all moo: BK travelled from Pullman to Indian Hills Drive between c 2.50am and 3.25am. Imo with his phone off. The quickest route direct down 270 is only a 15 minute drive at that time in the early morning. So if that is Bk's car in the Floyd's footage but there is no white sedan in Red Star 270 footage from west Moscow city limits ( and other business/gas station/traffic etc cameras in central Moscow), then imo he left 270 and took a back road route not long after passing Floyd's. This would account for the extra time it took for him to reach Indian Hills.

Imo Sy Ray is some kind of red herring as far as BK's 'alibi' is concerned. It's video footage or lack thereof that AT is after to somehow show BK was anywhere but Moscow between approx 3.25am and 4.20am. Basically she would want him somewhere at the critical time that allows him to intersect with hwy 95 near Blaine ( ie emerge from some back road) at 4.48am where he just happens to turn on his phone again. Jmo

Moo, the alibi is hopeless unless BK testifies, because I doubt AT is going to find some suggestive footage somewhere west and south of Moscow to even insinuate BK was out of range of 1122 King Road between 3.25am ( SV1 on Indian hills) and 4.20am ( SV 1 leaving Local King Road Neighbourhood). Defense wants the DNA out, but given that is not going to happen jmo I don't think an alibi defense is going to get off the ground.

Although I guess Judge Hippler is a bit of an unknown in terms of how he'll deal with relevant ICR rule. As it currently stands the 'alibi' does not meet basic requirements. Jmo

I guess my problem with following this case, is his alibi is hopeless even if he does testify, because his DNA is at the crime scene, and inevitably all the rest of the circumstantial evidence will shake out from there

I have some kind of academic interest in the Franks/Suppression motions, but the actual factual attempts to get out from under this seem more speculative than real IMO.
 
  • #499
a young male criminology student has perpetrated a murder in order to try and commit the perfect crime and for the notoriety it may bring, there's quite a lot of similarity IMO.

Saadi's name was "Ninja Killer" on Snapchat. Not to make light of things, going around asking people how to commit the perfect crime probably isn't the best way to start.
 
  • #500
There is proof he drove to Moscow. DNA at the murder scene.

I'm with you.

The jury is not going to be diving into the nitty gritty details or what if one small segment doesn't match the timeline. That's sort of what we do.. but really doesn't matter that much in the trial.

IMO, this is only of minor significance if one detail doesn't line up perfectly.

The big things are the DNA, eyewitness report of the suspect in the house and cell phone pings versus location and timeline.
 
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