4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #98

[BeginnerSleuther]

They zeroed in on a guy who left his DNA on an item directly related to the murders.

And conveniently ignored other sources of blood DNA.

His car fit,

It fit the revised years, sure.

his cell phone data was beyond damning,

In what way was it beyond damning? It didn't help him at all, but not once did his cell phone data place him at the scene of the crime.

and then it got super weird from there (when they dug into his background).

Which is kind of what you'd expect, when you're talking about a quadruple murderer with no connection to the victims.

Lots of people are weird. They're not all quadruple killers.

The process they went through to find him is so logical that it makes my heard hurt that people could argue otherwise. That's the world I live in though, logical reasoning based on evidence. It works.

I also live in that world. Logical reasoning based on evidence is great. No one is saying it isn't. But logical reasoning based on evidence can also extremely myopic and that's how one misses things. This is faaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrr from a slam dunk case.

MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I respectfully disagree in that information builds/create evidence so it winds up being evidential, when verified. That's how I look at it anyway, MO

When it becomes evidence, then it's evidence. But the definition of evidence is very different from the definition of information.

The fact that BK lives in Pullman is information. It is not evidence. BK's DNA on the sheath is evidence.

MOO.

 

[mom2chloe]

I feel badly for the parents of the victims. Their children's killer sits in jail, demanding vegan food, and other accommodations, while his attorney does everything possible to get evidence dismissed.

That would be so frustrating and difficult.

IMO it would be fitting after he is convicted and sentenced to death his last meal should be a steak medium rare. Sorry but am out of sympathy for BK and these families have fought too long for justice. And apologies from the jail because we were out of vegan meals. Justice!

 

[arielilane]

State of Idaho v. Bryan C. Kohberger​

Ada County CR01-24-31665 / Latah County CR29-22-2805

Case Summary (Updated 01/24/25)

• 01/22/2025 Order Regarding Presentation of ICC Evidence
• 01/22/2025 Order Sealing Defendants Supplemental Witness List for Motions hearing on 1/23/25
• 01/22/2025 Order Denying Motion to Unseal IGG Suppression Briefing and Hearing
• 01/22/2025 Notice of Hearing
• 01/22/2025 Renewed Motion to be Heard as Interested Parties
• 01/23/2025 Stipulated Motion to Seal Exhibits - Defendants Supplemental Response to Request for Discovery
• 01/24/2025 Order Authorizing Out of State Witness to Testify via Zoom
• 01/24/2025 Order to Seal Exhibits - Defendants Supplemental Response to Request for Discovery
• 01/24/2025 Order Sealing States Disclosure for Hearing on 01/23/25
• 01/24/2025 Stipulation to Allow Out of State Witness to Testify Via Zoom

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

 

[MassGuy]

And conveniently ignored other sources of blood DNA.



It fit the revised years, sure.



In what way was it beyond damning? It didn't help him at all, but not once did his cell phone data place him at the scene of the crime.



Lots of people are weird. They're not all quadruple killers.



I also live in that world. Logical reasoning based on evidence is great. No one is saying it isn't. But logical reasoning based on evidence can also extremely myopic and that's how one misses things. This is faaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrr from a slam dunk case.

MOO.

This is false. They did not “ignore other sources of blood DNA.”

What they did do, is take DNA that was almost certainly from the killer, and begin IGG with remarkable speed. They are not, in any universe, going to do that with multiple profiles.

What they would/did do, is enter any potential other offender DNA into CODIS.

What else are you expecting exactly?

This “revised years,” is mind boggling to me. This happens all the time. Law enforcement gets better video, and is able to firm up a male/model/year of vehicle. We’ve seen plenty of cases where they’re not even close initially.

That’s why WSU was able to get his name before the FBI even had it via IGG.

Why is the cell phone data damning? Because it just so happens to go dark in the middle of his travels, when the murders would have occurred. That’s a remarkable coincidence, as they could have potentially ruled him out really quickly otherwise.

But that’s the thing. A guy who plans a murder meticulously is going to do just that. What he didn’t realize, is any deviation from the norm is just as incriminating.

That’s why when these CAST experts come aboard, they immediately ask for historical phone data outside the period in question.

Why is the defense trying desperately to keep out Amazon, Google, and Apple records?

Because there’s a lot more when that came from.

Slam dunk, just like several other cases I’ve called slam dunks. Which were, in fact, all slam dunks at trial.

 

[arielilane]

@arielilane ; If LE had more dna or other evidence of BK at the scene, would they have released it by now ?
I'm also assuming prob. not, the prosecution would hang onto it until trial.

Imo, the public know very little of the evidence which will be presented in a court of law. It's going to be incredible though. It won't end well for the defendant. At least thats what I am hoping for, if he's guilty of the crime. moo

edit: BK is accused of crime, corrected my sentence

 

[al66pine]

Stmt by Mr. Goncalves'

Idaho killings: Victim’s father reacts to DNA evidence challenge​

https://www.newsnationnow.com/crime/kohberger-evidence-dismissal-steve-goncalves/

....

“We try to work with the prosecution to make sure that we’re all on the same page...” Goncalves said.

snipped for focus @Cool Cats. Thx for posting link & quote from Mr. G.

Earlier Mr. & Mrs. G. criticized the prosecution on various points, even up to time 1122 King was razed. Maybe beyond?

Now, in a Jan 23 story? "We try to work with the prosecution to make sure that we’re all on the same page."

Try to work with the prosecution. TRY?
What "work" was Mr. G. referring to?

^ Suggests imo the G's may still have some unresolved concerns. ^
A bit puzzling but I may be misinterpreting.

 

[al66pine]

Mr. Goncalves Stmt.

Oh I agree, and I too feel awful for all of them, but my original post still stands. SG was incredibly vocal and didn't seem able to take into account the damage his actions could possibly cause for the State's case, understandle in his grief, but still at least one of the reasons for the gag order IMO.

@Rolypolyoly Yes, good point. Ditto, feeling awful for them.

(Not that I necessarily see gag orders as negative.)

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

This is false. They did not “ignore other sources of blood DNA.”

What they did do, is take DNA that was almost certainly from the killer, and begin IGG with remarkable speed. They are not, in any universe, going to do that with multiple profiles.

What they would/did do, is enter any potential other offender DNA into CODIS.

What else are you expecting exactly?

Maybe that the blood of others at a murder scene be investigated more thoroughly?

This “revised years,” is mind boggling to me.

It's mind boggling to me that more people aren't bothered by this.

This happens all the time. Law enforcement gets better video, and is able to firm up a male/model/year of vehicle. We’ve seen plenty of cases where they’re not even close initially.

Can you please cite a successful case where LE changed a key piece of their case after a potential suspect was identified? I don't follow that many cases and I haven't seen it lead to a conviction yet.

That’s why WSU was able to get his name before the FBI even had it via IGG.

THIS is precisely the problem. Did they change the car dates before or after WSU identified him?

Why is the cell phone data damning? Because it just so happens to go dark in the middle of his travels, when the murders would have occurred. That’s a remarkable coincidence, as they could have potentially ruled him out really quickly otherwise.

It didn't just go dark for the murders. It went dark before and after the murders. And until we know how often his cell phone "went dark," I don't consider it damning. I consider it unhelpful, definitely. But damning? Damning to me would be cell data that puts him at the crime scene, not data that suggests he was out of range or turned it off. I actually think it would be way more damning if his cell phone pinged in Moscow that night.

But that’s the thing. A guy who plans a murder meticulously is going to do just that.

Was it meticulous? Because many, including me, have poked so many holes in the theory that this was in any way a perfect or near-perfect crime or that it was meticulously planned.

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

When it becomes evidence, then it's evidence. But the definition of evidence is very different from the definition of information.

The fact that BK lives in Pullman is information. It is not evidence. BK's DNA on the sheath is evidence.

MOO.

Information builds evidence, even the fact that BK resided in Pullman. It will be critical information to show his premeditated intent at the wee hours of the morning of the murders. It will be where BK's car is introduced into evidence. It's all informational building blocks of evidence. MO

ev·i·dence
noun

1. the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
   
   
   

 

[MassGuy]

Maybe that the blood of others at a murder scene be investigated more thoroughly?



It's mind boggling to me that more people aren't bothered by this.



Can you please cite a successful case where LE changed a key piece of their case after a potential suspect was identified? I don't follow that many cases and I haven't seen it lead to a conviction yet.



THIS is precisely the problem. Did they change the car dates before or after WSU identified him?



It didn't just go dark for the murders. It went dark before and after the murders. And until we know how often his cell phone "went dark," I don't consider it damning. I consider it unhelpful, definitely. But damning? Damning to me would be cell data that puts him at the crime scene, not data that suggests he was out of range or turned it off. I actually think it would be way more damning if his cell phone pinged in Moscow that night.



Was it meticulous? Because many, including me, have poked so many holes in the theory that this was in any way a perfect or near-perfect crime or that it was meticulously planned.

MOO

Ok, focusing on this one "Maybe that the blood of others at a murder scene be investigated more thoroughly?"

What do you mean by this? What specifically did they not do that you would have expected them to do?

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

No this is evidence I am talking about not information but real evidence of which must be disclosed to the defense because it is evidence that will be presented at trial.

AT herself talks about there being a lot of evidence she is getting and also wants to get.

2 Cents

What you said was "There is so much evidence that AT had mentioned having someone help her organize it."

Did AT say she had to have someone help her organize "evidence" or help her organize information? I don't recall her saying that.

 

[MassGuy]

Maybe that the blood of others at a murder scene be investigated more thoroughly?



It's mind boggling to me that more people aren't bothered by this.



Can you please cite a successful case where LE changed a key piece of their case after a potential suspect was identified? I don't follow that many cases and I haven't seen it lead to a conviction yet.



THIS is precisely the problem. Did they change the car dates before or after WSU identified him?



It didn't just go dark for the murders. It went dark before and after the murders. And until we know how often his cell phone "went dark," I don't consider it damning. I consider it unhelpful, definitely. But damning? Damning to me would be cell data that puts him at the crime scene, not data that suggests he was out of range or turned it off. I actually think it would be way more damning if his cell phone pinged in Moscow that night.



Was it meticulous? Because many, including me, have poked so many holes in the theory that this was in any way a perfect or near-perfect crime or that it was meticulously planned.

MOO

The car date is an educated guess. In any investigation, information changes as more data/evidence comes in; investigations evolve with time, at they should. This idea that they miraculously got IGG back in two weeks, identified Kohberger, and then settled on the precise model year, is utter nonsense, unsupported by evidence and common sense.

Can you please cite a successful case where LE changed a key piece of their case after a potential suspect was identified? I don't follow that many cases and I haven't seen it lead to a conviction yet.

Can you please show me that this was the case here? You state this as fact.

A killer was able to massacre four people, slip into the night, and may have gotten away with it if not for a simple error. How is that not evidence of meticulous planing?

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Information builds evidence, even the fact that BK resided in Pullman. It will be critical information to show his premeditated intent at the wee hours of the morning of the murders.

How will him residing in Pullman show premeditation? That doesn't make sense to me at all. Many people live in Pullman. Living there is not evidence nor would it prove premeditation, IMO.

It will be where BK's car is introduced into evidence. It's all informational building blocks of evidence. MO

ev·i·dence
noun

1. the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

His car being an Elantra isn't evidence. It is information. Per the definition you quoted, it's only evidence if it indicates whether a belief is true or valid. His driving an Elantra does neither. It's information. Sure, you can pile on information to make a case, but evidence is information that points directly to the suspect. So for example, HE was driving the Elantra that left the crime scene would be evidence.

MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Ok, focusing on this one "Maybe that the blood of others at a murder scene be investigated more thoroughly?"

What do you mean by this? What specifically did they not do that you would have expected them to do?

Let me ask you something. Let's say that they never found the sheath. Just as a hypothetical. What would they have done with the blood evidence?

 

[sunshineray]

Maybe that the blood of others at a murder scene be investigated more thoroughly?



It's mind boggling to me that more people aren't bothered by this.



Can you please cite a successful case where LE changed a key piece of their case after a potential suspect was identified? I don't follow that many cases and I haven't seen it lead to a conviction yet.



THIS is precisely the problem. Did they change the car dates before or after WSU identified him?



It didn't just go dark for the murders. It went dark before and after the murders. And until we know how often his cell phone "went dark," I don't consider it damning. I consider it unhelpful, definitely. But damning? Damning to me would be cell data that puts him at the crime scene, not data that suggests he was out of range or turned it off. I actually think it would be way more damning if his cell phone pinged in Moscow that night.



Was it meticulous? Because many, including me, have poked so many holes in the theory that this was in any way a perfect or near-perfect crime or that it was meticulously planned.

MOO

It's like trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. There's book smart but that doesn't mean that even a high IQ is infallible. I think there's plenty of credible facts that together will convict a less than perfect PHD'd individual who decided to commit 4 murders. I think he became infatuated and all his learning went out the window. He left tge murder weapon's sheath with his DNA under the body of his victim. He drove his car to and around the murder scene that early morning repeatedly. We'll have to wait for trial to learn the online stuff more thoroughly but I'm doubtful it will help his defense. AJMO

 

[MassGuy]

Let me ask you something. Let's say that they never found the sheath. Just as a hypothetical. What would they have done with the blood evidence?

Run it through CODIS. Compare it to any potential suspects they were investigating. So again I ask, what didn't they do that they should have done?

 

[sunshineray]

How will him residing in Pullman show premeditation? That doesn't make sense to me at all. Many people live in Pullman. Living there is not evidence nor would it prove premeditation, IMO.



His car being an Elantra isn't evidence. It is information. Per the definition you quoted, it's only evidence if it indicates whether a belief is true or valid. His driving an Elantra does neither. It's information. Sure, you can pile on information to make a case, but evidence is information that points directly to the suspect. So for example, HE was driving the Elantra that left the crime scene would be evidence.

MOO

He had to drive a distance to get to where he was going, in the wee hours of the morning, lots of time to reconsider what he planned to do. The Elantra will be in evidence I'm certain. While I understand what you're attempting to do, poking at things (it's what the defense is trying to do) I don't agree that all those things won't eventually wind up helping to convict BK. JMO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

The car date is an educated guess. In any investigation, information changes as more data/evidence comes in; investigations evolve with time, at they should.

I'm not disputing that. What I want to know is was the date changed before or after they identified BK? It makes a difference because it suggests that if they already had BK on their radar, then an argument can be made they changed the date to fit the suspect.

This idea that they miraculously got IGG back in two weeks, identified Kohberger, and then settled on the precise model year, is utter nonsense, unsupported by evidence and common sense.

Well, you may think it's unsupported by "common sense," but given how many posters have now posted this, I completely disagree. I'd also add that I haven't seen anyone post that they received IGG back before changing the date. I asked if they had gotten the tip from WSU before changing the date. That is not the same.

Can you please cite a successful case where LE changed a key piece of their case after a potential suspect was identified? I don't follow that many cases and I haven't seen it lead to a conviction yet.

Can you please show me that this was the case here? You state this as fact.

That they changed a key piece of the case after a potential suspect was identified? I never stated that as fact. I asked it as a question and stated that it weakened the case if that was the case. You said LE changes things all the time, so I'm asking in which other cases have they changed things after ID'ing a suspect and been successful? Because if the answer is zero, then I maintain that it would hurt the case if that's what happened, IMO.

A killer was able to massacre four people, slip into the night, and may have gotten away with it if not for a simple error. How is that not evidence of meticulous planing?

Assuming the killer is BK and BK alone.

MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

He had to drive a distance to get to where he was going, in the wee hours of the morning, lots of time to reconsider what he planned to do.

But that has nothing to do with him living in Pullman. If that proved premeditation, then every killer who didn't live right next door to their victim would be convicted of premeditated murder and we know that isn't true.

MOO