4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #98

[jepop]

Yes, but wasn't there some mistake with the year, though?

Idaho Killings Suspect Got New License Plate 5 Days After Murders (Published 2023)

Records show that the suspect’s Hyundai Elantra got a new registration in Washington State shortly after four students at the University of Idaho were murdered.

www.nytimes.com

The Idaho police was looking for 2011-2013 Elantra. BK had 2015 model. Not sure if they zoomed in on his car.

The investigation was updated as happens. Nothing to see here. This will be clear at trial. Jmo

 

[INfisherman]

Agree. After Delphi any amount of police, any incompetence by Indiana police would not be surprising...such as being advised that a suspect was passing though and takingbit upon themselves to STOP the suspect.
2x:
First by a sheriff's deputy.
Second by IN State Police,
just out of curiosity.

One bad apple, huh? Quite a stretch bud. No, your first impression probably wasn’t a very good one but I can assure you Delphi was an exception not the rule. Small town inexperience worsened by larger uncoordinated & disorganized multi agencies compounded & magnified the existing issues. I think the spotlight around the case from both social & mainstream media compounded the issues as well.

BK was pulled over twice in an area of metro Indy where most drivers are speeding 10-15+ mph over the posted 55 mph speed limit & not getting pulled over. Unlikely it was routine given the stated reasons for the stops. If no ticket issued for either infraction then quite likely it was surveillance.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

One bad apple, huh? Quite a stretch bud. No, your first impression probably wasn’t a very good one but I can assure you Delphi was an exception not the rule. Small town inexperience worsened by larger uncoordinated & disorganized multi agencies compounded & magnified the existing issues. I think the spotlight around the case from both social & mainstream media compounded the issues as well.

BK was pulled over twice in an area of metro Indy where most drivers are speeding 10-15+ mph over the posted 55 mph speed limit & not getting pulled over. Unlikely it was routine given the stated reasons for the stops. If no ticket issued for either infraction then quite likely it was surveillance.

JMO

Do sheriffs in Indiana work the interstates? Would be unusual in most states

 

[INfisherman]

The investigation was updated as happens. Nothing to see here. This will be clear at trial. Jmo

Hopefully this "expert" doesn’t have to do a Google search like another "expert" did in a recent case.

 

[Cool Cats]

Hopefully this "expert" doesn’t have to do a Google search like another "expert" did in a recent case.

Maybe try Bing or several other search engines. Try some European or Asian or other country's searches.

Probably could get a few 10 year olds to figure it out.

2 Cents

 

[INfisherman]

Do sheriffs in Indiana work the interstates? Would be unusual in most states

Within the county through which the interstate passes, yes, they can but that just leans a bit to support it was surveillance. 2 ISP troopers would be way too obvious. The Indy area counties are laid out fairly easily to explain - Marion is right in the middle, with I believe 8 others surrounding Marion, similar to a tic tac toe grid. If one knew the route he took &/or the highways on which he was stopped, & compare with which county the deputy represented, if reported, a logical conclusion might be easily drawn. If he was pulled over on an interstate which didn’t pass through the same county of which the deputy represented, then it’s highly likely surveillance. Hope that’s not overly confusing.

My experience regarding who patrols where spans commuting 60 miles round trip using a major interstate & a US route 4 lane divided highway for 30+ years. All 3 levels (city, county, state) of LE patrolled them. Beginning & end of the months see more patrols compared to the middle part of the month due to ticket quotas. It’s common for an isolated rural stretch to attract more local LE due to not having much else to do in the area. City/town police are less common on interstates unless the city/town limits include the interstate. Some city limits can be a corridor connecting the city with a rural area where large manufacturing facilities have been constructed nearby. City limits were expanded along these corridors to provide utilities.

BK could have had any number of municipalities involved in surveilling him while passing through Indy. The number of local police is staggering due to all the suburbs & then there’s also IMPD (Indy Metro) as well once he is in city limits. Some police who are off duty or even outside of jurisdictions will on occasion makes stops but my experience it was just them trying to make a point & saying slow down - these days that would be bullying & intimidation.

MOO

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Either he did't know nothing stays in coveralls if you have to exert yourself (not blue collar)

Or he thought one woman no problems. (Incel-ish)

Yes @Boxer …. And one additional scenario perhaps….. (and not my idea, it was way up in the threads months ago… but I won’t be able to find it…. and with apologies to who suggested it then) -

Maybe the individual that left the knife sheath thought it was fully ‘cleaned’ and left it deliberately. A calling card or taunt perhaps? Speculation only. And whether or not that is the case….. may not ever be known….. unless it is revealed? MOO

 

[INfisherman]

Maybe try Bing or several other search engines. Try some European or Asian or other country's searches.

Probably could get a few 10 year olds to figure it out.

2 Cents

How about a genius?

An Apple Genius.

MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

How about a genius?

An Apple Genius.

MOO

Musk is busy being asked by Trump to rescue the 2 space people stranded at I.S.S. But maybe other geniuses will emerge from mom's basement and help us.

Joking

 

[schooling]

Link? I don't remember ever hearing any type of statement from BF?

Thanks

I don't want to speak for the OP, but I believe this was just an accidental mixup of the surviving roommates initials. JMO



That would seem a much more reasonable explanation if everyone in the house was doing it, but it seems that this particular behaviour was isolated to just BK.

No confusion here.

[i removed the link until I find out if the UK Mirror is allowed or not]

Content removed

 

[Swansee]

All MOO

The hearings have shed new light onto the PCA and I suppose for me I am frustrated b/c it creates quite a bit more reasonable doubt in my opinion.

1. Dylan did not say 5'10" or better - she said, "taller than me" (5'8") and skinny. There was no 'athletically built.' Not a match for Bryan, especially since she was unable to recognize him from a photo. In subsequent interviews Dylan said she really wasn't sure what she remembered, and may have been dreaming.

2. Also, that shoe print, which was never matched to BK, was right along the threshold of her door - which is enough off the natural path, and almost stepping on her, that it looks to be her own shoe print after clean-up.

3. If someone did go out the slider, then there is strong evidence of a second perp who exited the crime scene out the front door - there was a blood smear on the railing and the front door was seen standing wide open at around 8am by a neighbor.

4. The glove found in the front lot did have blood which did not match BK - or anyone else.

5. Also of interest is Brett Payne's (he no longer works for MPD,) admission that he only just recently received a letter calling for a hard SWAT entry to the home, when the original order was for a knock and announce.

6. The FBI admitted to violating the terms of service for the private genetic genealogy websites.

7. The PCA mis-stated (according to the state's own records,) the time when BK's phone went out of range, by seven minutes. They did not have the video for that intersection, in that timeframe which would indicate his direction, but instead drew a blue line on a map to suggest he drove to Moscow.

8. <modsnip - not an approved source>

9. Dylan heard Kaylee run downstairs and run back up again. The PCA had everyone in a deep sleep whereby BK could dispatch them quickly and silently - but that was not true.

10. Communications show that they were only able to identify the make and model of the white car from a single image on Ridge (I think,) which was a 2011-2013. Not BK's car?

11. Somehow the dog sat in a bedroom during all of it and never left the room with the door open. Didn't have a drop of blood on him.

12. DM and BF it sounds like were texting each other while all of this was happening. 'If' this is true......did they attempt to text MM, KG, or XC during all of this?


Again, just my opinion and I am not saying BK is innocent.

Thank you for this great summary.

To your number 12: this is a really good question. I have no doubt we will find out. The phones (BK's, the victims', and the surviving roommates') will paint the full picture of what happened that night.
IMO, the outcome of this trial may will end up resting on the digital data. Not just BK's phone that night, but all the devices, cell phone records, browsing histories, app data etc analyzed in this case.
IMO DM's accounts of that night and morning in interviews matter a lot less than what she and BF were texting and to whom. Grainy footage of white sedans matters a lot less than what BK's detailed phone location data really shows.
The devices, IMO, will reveal information that may be even more critical to a conviction or an acquittal than even DNA.

 

[Nila Aella]

The models are virtually identical, and yes the agent blew it -apparently not realizing how many years the model was manufactured.

I don't recall that the SA Imel didn't realize how many years the model was manufactured?

He used an identification program per the P.

For Exhibit S-8, the State disclosed the Vehicle Identification Expert, SA Imel. The disclosure specifies he will testify to his “use of the Forensic, Audio, Video and Image Analysis Program. The Forensic, Audio, Video, and Image Analysis Program was used to determine the make, model, and year of a suspected vehicle involved

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR01-24-31665/2024/123124-Objection-Defendants-MtC-ICR16b7-Material-Sanctions.pdf

What I heard during this last hearing was that there are emails between Imel and LE discussing the year. Each side says something different regarding those emails.
2011-13 or 2011-16.

The Judge will read those emails and know what they say. IMO.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

I don't recall that the SA Imel didn't realize how many years the model was manufactured?

He used an identification program per the P.

For Exhibit S-8, the State disclosed the Vehicle Identification Expert, SA Imel. The disclosure specifies he will testify to his “use of the Forensic, Audio, Video and Image Analysis Program. The Forensic, Audio, Video, and Image Analysis Program was used to determine the make, model, and year of a suspected vehicle involved

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR01-24-31665/2024/123124-Objection-Defendants-MtC-ICR16b7-Material-Sanctions.pdf

What I heard during this last hearing was that there are emails between Imel and LE discussing the year. Each side says something different regarding those emails.
2011-13 or 2011-16.

The Judge will read those emails and know what they say. IMO.

JMO

What I know is when they said they were sesrching for a white Elantra I went to CarMax, AutoTrader, Ebay Motors and looked at Elantras.
I saw for myself at the time that all the Elantras were basically indistinguishable. Hubcaps different. Minor things.

At the time I thought they must have something more to ID the year, such as some kind of year specific radio/gps.

 

[INfisherman]

I don't recall that the SA Imel didn't realize how many years the model was manufactured?

He used an identification program per the P.

For Exhibit S-8, the State disclosed the Vehicle Identification Expert, SA Imel. The disclosure specifies he will testify to his “use of the Forensic, Audio, Video and Image Analysis Program. The Forensic, Audio, Video, and Image Analysis Program was used to determine the make, model, and year of a suspected vehicle involved

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR01-24-31665/2024/123124-Objection-Defendants-MtC-ICR16b7-Material-Sanctions.pdf

What I heard during this last hearing was that there are emails between Imel and LE discussing the year. Each side says something different regarding those emails.
2011-13 or 2011-16.

The Judge will read those emails and know what they say. IMO.

JMO

FWIW, 7 years is usually the norm for car & truck generation life spans over the past 15 years in the US. Euro imports may vary from that. Sheet metal won’t vary much, if at all. Norm is sheet metal is frozen (unchanged for the full generation). Plastic components (grilles, lighting, bumper covers) are usually all that change. I exclude wheels because they can be changed at any point & also not be factory made (aftermarket).

25+ years designing in auto industry.

MOO

 

[Nila Aella]

What I know is when they said they were sesrching for a white Elantra I went to CarMax, AutoTrader, Ebay Motors and looked at Elantras.
I saw for myself at the time that all the Elantras were basically indistinguishable. Hubcaps different. Minor things.

At the time I thought they must have something more to ID the year, such as some kind of year specific radio/gps.

FWIW, 7 years is usually the norm for car & truck generation life spans over the past 15 years in the US. Euro imports may vary from that. Sheet metal won’t vary much, if at all. Norm is sheet metal is frozen (unchanged for the full generation). Plastic components (grilles, lighting, bumper covers) are usually all that change. I exclude wheels because they can be changed at any point & also not be factory made (aftermarket).

25+ years designing in auto industry.

MOO

SA I is the car identification expert working for the FBI that will be testifying in this case.

PCA
Law enforcement officers provided video footage of Suspect Vehicle I to forensic examiners with the Federal Bureau of lnvestigation that regularly utilize surveillance footage to identify the year, make, and model of an unknown vehicle that is observed by one or more cameras during the commission of a criminal offense. The Forensic Examiner has approximately 35 years law enforcement experience with twelve years at the FBL His specific training includes identifying unique characteristics of vehicles, and he uses a database that gives visual clues of vehicles across states to identify differences between vehicles.

Hearing:
1:11:34 AT said that MPDs BOLO was for a 2011-13 HE.
AJ said LE was looking for 2011-16.

According to the hearing, the ID that the P is using against BK is SA Imel's car ID from one image on Ridge Road.

IMO this is the part of the PCA that the emails refer to (below). JMO
The emails were submitted to the Judge.
AT said that SA I felt more comfortable with the 2011-13 ID.

After reviewing the numerous observations of Suspect Vehicle 1, the forensic examiner initially believed that Suspect Vehicle 1 was a 20ll-2013 Hyundai Elantra. Upon further review, he indicated it could also be a 2011-2016 Hyundai Elantra. As a result, investigators have been reviewing information on persons in possession of a vehicle that is a 201 1-2016 white Hyundai Elantra.

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/122922+Affidavit+-+Exhibit+A+-+Statement+of+Brett-Payne.pdf

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Thank you for this great summary.

To your number 12: this is a really good question. I have no doubt we will find out. The phones (BK's, the victims', and the surviving roommates') will paint the full picture of what happened that night.
IMO, the outcome of this trial may will end up resting on the digital data. Not just BK's phone that night, but all the devices, cell phone records, browsing histories, app data etc analyzed in this case.
IMO DM's accounts of that night and morning in interviews matter a lot less than what she and BF were texting and to whom. Grainy footage of white sedans matters a lot less than what BK's detailed phone location data really shows.
The devices, IMO, will reveal information that may be even more critical to a conviction or an acquittal than even DNA.

Respectfully disagree entirely.

 

[girlhasnoname]

The models are virtually identical, and yes the agent blew it -apparently not realizing how many years the model was manufactured.

I don't think the Agent blew it. I think LE had the initial video surveillance from Linda Lane (foggy night) and received additional footage later on IIRC. One was from a gas station (much more lighted area) and then his stop for coffee where BK is also seen on video, but there could also be others.

I still believe LE did not want to come right out and say 2015 white Elantra possibly because they didn't want the suspect to panic and flee the area or commit another crime. I believe that is a tactic that they can use and did so here.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Is it me, or did the Moscow, ID detectives who testified at the evidentiary hearing invoke the term, "I don't recall" WAY too many times while being questioned by the defense attorneys about the very evidence the detectives collected??

For me, an inordinate number of "I don't recall" responses from a witness under oath suggests either evasion, or incompetency - either one likely won't appear well to a jury. They did NOT exude confidence (except the typical degree of swagger exhibited by LEO's experienced in testifying for the state), nor did they come-off (to me) as being particularly compelling or convincing.

In the COPO (Court of Public Opinion), the much easier court to convict an accused - there already seems to be some reasonable doubt, especially surrounding the DNA collection and the cell tower "dump" collection...two things that states case relies heavily on.

This isn't a slam dunk for the state by any means. To leave so little forensic evidence while in the commission of 4 FOUR stabbing homicides, this dude Kohberger (whose parent's home is less-than 1/4 mile from our family's Pocono summer place in PA) would have had to have been excruciatingly talented at concealing murders, or, beyond-statistical analysis lucky, or, not present at the time of the murders.

In my fellow COPP there's been no reasonable doubt created by this Defense. Just a desperate attempt to try and eliminate very damning evidence.

The Defense was on a fishing expedition IMO. It doesn't surprise me in the least the Detectives did not recall every detail. AT was trying to get specifics ahead of trial. The Detectives came across as confident and truthful to me, sometimes correcting both her and EM during questioning. The Defense were the ones that came across as disheveled unprepared, flustered, and the exhibit evidence paper shuffle was unmerciful.

BK is not excruciating talented, or lucky or he wouldn't be sitting in custody awaiting trial. He was a Criminal Justice Doctoral student and knew what LE would be looking for and planned accordingly. Except for leaving his single source DNA on the knife sheath matching him in 5+ Octillion range on the bed near or under Maddie. That had to hurt dude Kohberger's ego big time. It's a huge oops and can't be logically explained away. That's why the D is trying sooooo very hard to get that and the phone records tossed.

I do not think they will be successful in their MTS, but I realize anything is possible. It's just my opinion.

.

 

[pseudo_hum]

It's all good. The agent can easily explain his work process and thought process on the stand at trial. Nothing to see here imo. The jury will get it. Not going to fall for no conspiratorial innuendo. Jmo.

What do you mean, it was not a perfect investigation, like every other investigation? IMO

 

[Megnut]

In my fellow COPP there's been no reasonable doubt created by this Defense. Just a desperate attempt to try and eliminate very damning evidence.

The Defense was on a fishing expedition IMO. It doesn't surprise me in the least the Detectives did not recall every detail. AT was trying to get specifics ahead of trial. The Detectives came across as confident and truthful to me, sometimes correcting both her and EM during questioning. The Defense were the ones that came across as disheveled unprepared, flustered, and the exhibit evidence paper shuffle was unmerciful.

BK is not excruciating talented, or lucky or he wouldn't be sitting in custody awaiting trial. He was a Criminal Justice Doctoral student and knew what LE would be looking for and planned accordingly. Except for leaving his single source DNA on the knife sheath matching him in 5+ Octillion range on the bed near or under Maddie. That had to hurt dude Kohberger's ego big time. It's a huge oops and can't be logically explained away. That's why the D is trying sooooo very hard to get that and the phone records tossed.

I do not think they will be successful in their MTS, but I realize anything is possible. It's just my opinion.

.

This.

Except I don't his ego took the hit. No doubt he blames the sheath not on his failure but on the circumstances/victims who upended the attack he planned.

He'd say he didn't lose control, they did.

He'd be wrong... but IMO BK sees the world through his eyes alone.

I suspect AT herself had been on the receiving end of those intense, staring, invading eyes.

No doubt she's encountered it before, won't give him the satisfaction of reacting (because she's a professional) but on a human level, I bet she finds it creepy as hell.

I do. And I'm not even there.

JMO