4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #99

[Cool Cats]

Definitely not advocating for BK here. I am confident he is the guy. I'm just saying his attorney's argument is not as silly or desperate or obviously wrong as it seems on its face. If the judge rules that the DNA sequence from the site is excluded because A. DNA is implied PHI and B. the FBI obtained it under false pretenses, then the whole case against him is gone. The attorney is at a minimum opening up an appellate challenge (and a pretty good one too, IMO).

JMO.

Not gone...will go to Supreme Court in my opinion.

 

[iamshadow21]

RSBM

The FBI, IMHO, is not that culpable but they might have unwittingly opened the door to others, non-friendly, entities. And, they have also created a problem for themselves. Anne Taylor mentioned two other male DNAs being found in the blood. The answer was, their profiles were not found in the CODIS. One can read between the lines, but this undermines the validity of the results obtained for BK. His search was not limited, and the other ones, are.

That is the stumbling block for this case.

Jeff Nye may wish to formulate his words better. A well-known case.

23andMe user data targeting Ashkenazi Jews leaked online

A database that has been shared on dark web forums and viewed by NBC News has a list of 999,999 people who allegedly have used the service.

www.nbcnews.com

The hackers, I hope, will be arrested, but the issue is, that they hacked into a small number of accounts and followed the matches, and if is, theoretically, IGG.

So one can’t broadly say, legal or not. There are many limitations, and in general, DNA laws are long overdue.

Found in what blood? The way you've phrased this makes it seem like there were other profiles right in the thick of the death rooms, when that just isn't the case. The other profiles did not meet the threshold for CODIS.

MOO

 

[Boxer]

Definitely not advocating for BK here. I am confident he is the guy. I'm just saying his attorney's argument is not as silly or desperate or obviously wrong as it seems on its face. If the judge rules that the DNA sequence from the site is excluded because A. DNA is implied PHI and B. the FBI obtained it under false pretenses, then the whole case against him is gone. The attorney is at a minimum opening up an appellate challenge (and a pretty good one too, IMO).

JMO.

Appeal is automatic.

 

[Charlot123]

Found in what blood? The way you've phrased this makes it seem like there were other profiles right in the thick of the death rooms, when that just isn't the case. The other profiles did not meet the threshold for CODIS.

MOO

DNA is found "in blood", presumably, leucocytes. I might wish to formulate my words better, not only Nye, it seems. I didn't mean "blood admixture". But, what is the "threshold for CODID"?
CODIS is where legally LEO bodies' authority over swabbed DNA can be viewed as, say, legal. Also, Gedmatch for those of us who opted into LEO comparison. If CODIS tests for only minimal amount of markers then it is a bad net to start with. But, that still leaves BK at a disadvantage, because obviously, their DNA can't be legally processed? So that's the case of a reasonable doubt. IMHO.

 

[Cool Cats]

Found in what blood? The way you've phrased this makes it seem like there were other profiles right in the thick of the death rooms, when that just isn't the case. The other profiles did not meet the threshold for CODIS.

MOO

YUP

Bryan Kohberger update: New details on DNA at the Idaho murder scene

Kohberger, 28, has been charged with four counts of first-degree murder and one count of felony burglary.

www.newsweek.com

Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger appeared in court on Friday and his defense team laid out new details about possible DNA evidence found at the scene that is not connected to him.

According to Guy Tannenbaum of KHQ Local News in Washington, Kohberger's defense team, led by Kootenai County chief public defender Anne Taylor, asked the prosecution to provide three other DNA profiles that were found at the scene that were not Kohberger's.

"We've given everything we've gotten from the lab. I don't know what else to say. We've given everything that we know to exist," Latah County prosecutor Bill Thompson said in response, Tannenbaum reported from inside the courtroom. "They're asking for something that doesn't exist. We'll put in another inquiry to the lab for other communications, but as far as we know everything has already been provided to [the defense]."

 

[Boxer]

Found in what blood? The way you've phrased this makes it seem like there were other profiles right in the thick of the death rooms, when that just isn't the case. The other profiles did not meet the threshold for CODIS.

MOO

Party house - DNA on bannister and on a glove "found" by a disgraced YT detective.

 

[Charlot123]

It is incredibly concerning because that major hack might have allowed most anything to happen. How is the consumer to know if their DNA data was tampered with or not or even worse, used to build a bioweapon? The issue is significant enough that in 2019 the Department of Defense issued an order to stop the use of these consumer ancestry DNA tests by military. personnel.

Pentagon Leaders Tell Troops to Stop Using Mail-In Genealogy DNA Kits

U.S. troops are being advised to steer clear of genetic-testing kits over what Pentagon leaders say is a growing concern.

www.military.com

Why is this such a serious issue? Read here:

Exclusive: Pentagon warns military members DNA kits pose ‘personal and operational risks’

The Pentagon is advising members of the military not to use consumer DNA kits, saying the information collected by private companies could pose a security risk, according to a memo co-signed by the Defense Department’s top intelligence official.

www.yahoo.com

They are a little bit late with their warnings, but the hack i spoke about was the hack of "nationalistic elements" into 23@me. I posted the link. The problem is, they used DNA of a person/group of a certain ethnicity and then followed matches. So, by law, it is IGG principle. After that, Nye can not just8 issue a blanket statement that IGG is legal or not. Depending on "in whose hands, and for what reason."

 

[MassGuy]

DNA is found "in blood", presumably, leucocytes. I might wish to formulate my words better, not only Nye, it seems. I didn't mean "blood admixture". But, what is the "threshold for CODID"?
CODIS is where legally LEO bodies' authority over swabbed DNA can be viewed as, say, legal. Also, Gedmatch for those of us who opted into LEO comparison. If CODIS tests for only minimal amount of markers then it is a bad network to start with. But, that still leaves BK at a disadvantage, because obviously, their DNA can't be legally processed? So that's the case of a reasonable doubt. IMHO.

From the filings by the defense, it is clear that the DNA other than Kohberger's were partial profiles, that were thus unable to be uploaded to CODIS (not enough genetic material).

Old, degraded DNA samples, won't be a problem here.

 

[Cool Cats]

This is simply not true. We know for a fact this was a complete profile, from a single source (not mixed). It does not get much better than 5.37 octillion to one. Please stop saying it's partial, it is not in dispute.

The only degraded DNA found at the scene is the samples the defense is pointing to as being from some alternate suspect. They could not even be loaded into CODIS as a result, and could never be matched to a specific person if they could.

We know the sample was complete. We know IGG was used. We know IGG led them to Kohberger. We know that Kohberger was a perfect match to the sheath DNA.

Say someone is suspicious about the IGG for some reason. Cool.

One thing matters: BK is an indisputable match to the sheath DNA.
Click to expand...

Police were investigating many various possible suspects. Many of them provided DNA," Logsdon writes. "At least one had his DNA surreptitiously taken from discarded cigarette. Many also had their phones taken and downloaded."

Through the first two weeks of December, investigators put some of their focus on classmates of the victims; they also widened the search to examine a man in another state who had been known to send harassing messages to women but had visited Idaho only twice in his life.

They looked at a woman previously charged with assaults in the region. They looked at a man once accused of wielding a knife. They looked at sex offenders. They looked at a white supremacist. Each turned out to be a dead end.

The DNA on the snap shows beyond a resonable doubt - 5.37 octillion times - that BK touched the snap. The snap DNA matches BK's cheek DNA.

Eileen Holliday and Angenette Levy July 23rd, 2023, 9:57 am
The Law&Crime Network’s Angenette Levy spoke with DNA expert Kristen Slaper about the defense strategy.

 

[iamshadow21]

DNA is found "in blood", presumably, leucocytes. I might wish to formulate my words better, not only Nye, it seems. I didn't mean "blood admixture". But, what is the "threshold for CODID"?
CODIS is where legally LEO bodies' authority over swabbed DNA can be viewed as, say, legal. Also, Gedmatch for those of us who opted into LEO comparison. If CODIS tests for only minimal amount of markers then it is a bad network to start with. But, that still leaves BK at a disadvantage, because obviously, their DNA can't be legally processed? So that's the case of a reasonable doubt. IMHO.

With the greatest of respect, I don't think you understand how CODIS vs DNA ancestry websites work.

CODIS and other databases for those kinds of purposes generally test loci that mark where human beings are most different from each other. It's how they match or rule out suspects.

DNA ancestry sites are looking for connections. They're looking for markers that are shared, that's how they connect individuals who share a family line. They're not just looking for that one guy who did the thing, they're looking for someone you might have shared a great grandmother with a hundred and twenty years ago.

It's a different process with a different set of information needed for each.

Both start with the raw DNA, but they're working with different sections, with a very different approach.

And as for the CODIS threshold, this has been discussed before: 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #95

MOO

 

[Arkay]

But even “DNA inheritance” will eventually be regulated. Ownership of information will be entered into wills.

Perhaps this will be true someday.

On the other hand, as the science advances so rapidly, DNA as it is collected and identified now may be defunct in the future, as today’s methodology could wind up being considered primitive by future standards.

Then it may be more equivalent to my leaving my heirs a horse and buggy rather than my car.

In any event, I often have to remind myself that this trial is not about genealogy companies suing over permission to obtain their results.

It is about the slaughter of four young people; and as I see it, the DNA that has been correctly identified by the state-of-the art science that presently exists in our time.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

Police were investigating many various possible suspects. Many of them provided DNA," Logsdon writes. "At least one had his DNA surreptitiously taken from discarded cigarette. Many also had their phones taken and downloaded."

Through the first two weeks of December, investigators put some of their focus on classmates of the victims; they also widened the search to examine a man in another state who had been known to send harassing messages to women but had visited Idaho only twice in his life.

They looked at a woman previously charged with assaults in the region. They looked at a man once accused of wielding a knife. They looked at sex offenders. They looked at a white supremacist. Each turned out to be a dead end.

The DNA on the snap shows beyond a resonable doubt - 5.37 octillion times - that BK touched the snap. The snap DNA matches BK's cheek DNA.

Eileen Holliday and Angenette Levy July 23rd, 2023, 9:57 am
The Law&Crime Network’s Angenette Levy spoke with DNA expert Kristen Slaper about the defense strategy.

Wow, I hadn’t read that before. It really destroys this narrative that they didn’t cover all their bases here.

It’s beyond silly to believe they’d just ignore other DNA, considering the lengths they went to here.

 

[Boxer]

YUP

Bryan Kohberger update: New details on DNA at the Idaho murder scene

Kohberger, 28, has been charged with four counts of first-degree murder and one count of felony burglary.

www.newsweek.com

Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger appeared in court on Friday and his defense team laid out new details about possible DNA evidence found at the scene that is not connected to him.

According to Guy Tannenbaum of KHQ Local News in Washington, Kohberger's defense team, led by Kootenai County chief public defender Anne Taylor, asked the prosecution to provide three other DNA profiles that were found at the scene that were not Kohberger's.

"We've given everything we've gotten from the lab. I don't know what else to say. We've given everything that we know to exist," Latah County prosecutor Bill Thompson said in response, Tannenbaum reported from inside the courtroom. "They're asking for something that doesn't exist. We'll put in another inquiry to the lab for other communications, but as far as we know everything has already been provided to [the defense]."

Look, we found other DNA in places other than the CS.
This "other DNA" looks just like the alibi "looked at stars on other nights" and is supposed to explain somehow where he was during the murders.

 

[Cool Cats]

Wow, I hadn’t read that before. It really destroys this narrative that they didn’t cover all their bases here.

It’s beyond silly to believe they’d just ignore other DNA, considering the lengths they went to here.

They covered 100's of DNA samples possibly, and isn't it interesting that only BK's is a direct match to a sheath snap left under a victim?

 

[iamshadow21]

They covered 100's of DNA samples possibly, and isn't it interesting that only BK's is a direct match to a sheath snap left under a victim?

Yeah, shows it's relevant, unlike a glove left outdoors on a public street and only found sometime later by a YouTuber.

Context matters.

MOO

 

[al66pine]

Ownership of DNA information.

....
“DNA inheritance...” Ownership of information will be entered into wills....

sbm @Charlot123
Snipped to focus on the one point, as I'm not sure I'm following.

Does ^ refer to a person having an atty draft clause to include in a will or trust to convey their "DNA information" ?

I'd appreciate link(s) if available. TiA. Anyone?

 

[Cool Cats]

Yeah, shows it's relevant, unlike a glove left outdoors on a public street and only found sometime later by a YouTuber.

Context matters.

MOO

And for God's sake common sense matters.

 

[Cool Cats]

Ownership of DNA information.

sbm @Charlot123
Snipped to focus on the one point, as I'm not sure I'm following.

Does ^ refer to a person having an atty draft clause to include in a will or trust to convey their "DNA information" ?

I'd appreciate link(s) if available. TiA. Anyone?

DNA is a complicated colored graft. If my dad's DNA was in his Will I would have NO CLUE how to professionally verify this.

What would lawyers do? Hire scientists? Sounds ridiculous to me.

2 Cents

I would be better off comparing his 23 And Me to my 23 And Me where he is 98% Finnish and I am around 1/2 finish close to 48 %.

2 Cents

 

[Charlot123]

Ownership of DNA information.

sbm @Charlot123
Snipped to focus on the one point, as I'm not sure I'm following.

Does ^ refer to a person having an atty draft clause to include in a will or trust to convey their "DNA information" ?

I'd appreciate link(s) if available. TiA. Anyone?

It doesn't exist yet but the question has been raised many times on forums.

For example: if you remember, when first commercial DNA companies were formed, they were governed by absolutely no rules. The owner of one of them discussed "sitting on a trove of DNAs" during an interview. That was the first backfire - after that phrase the rules were introduced according to which, one had to sign if he/she wanted to be part of scientific studies conducted by such companies, and later, some of such companies sank due to lack of privacy.

But now there are lots of DNA codes, sequences of SNPs, tied to Gedcoms and trees are scattered on the Internet. Access to them for the heirs, as it has been discussed many times, has to be regulated by laws. Inheritance, yes. And they can't be "left unattended" or become ownership of the companies. Otherwise, to think of, any entity can access them, or the company sell them to anyone.

 

[mrjitty]

The FBI knowingly obtaining a non-suspect's DNA sequence under false pretenses, when an expectation of privacy exists both explicitly in the genealogy website's UA and implicitly (DNA is PHI, after all), is not a good look for the FBI at a minimum. I can certainly see a judge throwing all of it out, particularly with the FBI's reputation of late. In my view, this would be akin to the FBI posing as a patient at a doctor's office, covertly downloading all patient health records from said office, and then trying to submit one of them to a court because it had retroactive evidentiary value in a case that was only tangentially germane to it. The only difference in the analogy is a mere technicality; that is, that genealogy sites aren't (yet) considered covered HIPAA entities or partners therein. There will be arguments heard on that in the future I'm sure, and this case could be the catalyst.

JMO.

To be fair, the difference is much more than a mere technicality.

It is explicitly the case the medical records are protected, and difficult for the government to get access them. But the FBI did not access any protected medical records and especially none belonging to the defendant.

While I agree the position could be altered by legislation in the future, currently that is not the case. The Judge must take the law as he finds it. It is in my view quite unlikely the appeal Courts will create a whole class of protected information in this space. That is not their job but rather the job of the legislature.

It is also worth remembering IMO, that many telcos and social media companies have provided information to law enforcement down the years on a subpoena request without a warrant. Such information has not been regarded as private.

I am really failing to see the slippery slope here, and what is the public policy reason to curtail these searches which inconvenience constitutional rights not at all.