4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #99

[Boxer]

The DNA is the best shot they've got, IMO.



Was it confirmed they could see ANY license plate on the videos? Last I heard, there was some rumble about that. The eyewitness description is only credible if what the PCA said is 100% true and there's something about that from the defense POV, isn't there? Define "suspiciously" and I say that because it seems BK's always acted at least somewhat weird, not just after the murders. So does his after-murder behavior deviate significantly from pre-murder behavior? I don't think we know.



There were 22,000 white Elantras in Moscow, ID that matched the description LE initially put out.

12-15-2022 Moscow Homicide Update

90% of the world is not sleeping at that time. First of all, if you really mean the world, then you have to account for time zones. If you mean Moscow, then you're closer, but you have to still account for shift workers and a college town on a Saturday night. As for the percentage of people who turned off their cell phones, that's fine, but that isn't a prerequisite to murder. If BK isn't the killer, then we have no idea if the killer turned off his cell.



We'll see what happens.

MOO.

The vehicle ownership in Moscow ID is two per household average, there are about 10,000 households.
So about 20,000 vehicles total in Moscow.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

The vehicle ownership in Moscow ID is two per household average, there are about 10,000 households.
So about 20,000 vehicles total in Moscow.

You're right. The link I included states "December 15, 2022 (Moscow, Idaho) — Investigators are sorting through 22,000 registered 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantras that fit into the search criteria and thank the public for providing additional information about the vehicle."

It doesn't say all of these are in Moscow, so I'm sure some are national, like the one in Oregon.

I did find another link that said there were 90 white Elantras licensed to park at the University of Idaho. So I don't think it was that unusual a car in the area, regardless.

Idaho murders: 90 white Elantras were registered to park on campus as cops struggle to find vehicle

The University of Idaho has 90 white Hyundai Elantras registered to park at the school, vehicles similar to the one police are seeking in connection with the quadruple homicide just steps off campus, records show.

www.fox10phoenix.com

 

[Karin1974]

Are you thinking he went to his parking spot from the night before.

IMO - I’m not sure but I do feel he returned the next day & then discarded the idea of going back inside the house. MOO

 

[MassGuy]

IMO - I’m not sure but I do feel he returned the next day & then discarded the idea of going back inside the house. MOO

I was open to both ideas (he went back to get the knife, or he went back to see what was going on with law enforcement).

I now strongly lean towards the latter option, for one main reason. Immediately following the murders, I believe he drove to a preplanned site to dispose of evidence. It is at this point I believe he would have realized the sheath was missing (if not before).

The timeline seems to indicate that he returned to his apartment for a few hours (arrived back around 5:30, before again departing towards Moscow around 9:00.

At the absolute latest, he would have realized the sheath was missing upon his return, and it makes no sense for him to wait 3.5 hours or so to make an attempt at retrieval.

So I'm sold on him returning to the scene out of curiosity (to see if police were there). Many of these guys get off on that sort of thing too.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

SBBM Where have you gotten that information, that "so many people" have been through the house before the police came?

I think you are right, SpiderFalcon.
There were not that many people in the house between the time the victims were killed and LE arrived from any account I’ve ever heard. Perhaps just the friends the surviving roommate called when she was freaking out the next morning.
No matter. What really matters is that BK’s DNA should not be in that house anywhere….but yet it is.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This post lands at random.

Thread is not about BARD. If members wish to continue debating the very foundations of criminal proceedings as it relates to BARD, please take it into private messaging.

Thank you.

 

[Charlot123]

SBBM Where have you gotten that information, that "so many people" have been through the house before the police came?

I think it is a known fact that the police was called at 12:11 pm after the students were called, wasn’t it?

 

[jepop]

I think it is a known fact that the police was called at 12:11 pm after the students were called, wasn’t it?

I believe it's a known fact, yes, that police were called after survivors called some friends over. IIRC One (1) person, not resident at the house, made the 911 call re "unconscious person" using either DM or BF's phone. Presumably after seeing XK or EC motionless in XK's room. That person would have been in extreme shock. Jmo

I'm sure there were a few small reports by papers such as Idaho Statesman which reported these basic facts. Media thread is good place to look if interested. Jmo

What's not a known fact, but imo comes from the rumour mill, is that there were a lot (unspecified,) of people running round inside the house before police were called. LE did not and has not released any details to that effect. If you can link to any msm that confirms this, or LE source, please post.

What we do know from MPD updates prior to the arrest, is inner circle and the two survivors were cleared by LE. Only one suspect is arrested. Chief Fry in arrest presser ( see media thread,) said LE confident BK acted alone. Nothing's changed since then. Jmo

Also, jmo there is zero to speculate off, that timing of 911 call had any bearing on the murders; is irrelevant to who, why and how.

Moo

 

[MassGuy]

I believe it's a known fact, yes, that police were called after survivors called some friends over. IIRC One (1) person, not resident at the house, made the 911 call re "unconscious person" using either DM or BF's phone. Presumably after seeing XK or EC motionless in XK's room. That person would have been in extreme shock. Jmo

I'm sure there were a few small reports by papers such as Idaho Statesman which reported these basic facts. Media thread is good place to look if interested. Jmo

What's not a known fact, but imo comes from the rumour mill, is that there were a lot (unspecified,) of people running round inside the house before police were called. LE did not and has not released any details to that effect. If you can link to any msm that confirms this, or LE source, please post.

What we do know from MPD updates prior to the arrest, is inner circle and the two survivors were cleared by LE. Only one suspect is arrested. Chief Fry in arrest presser ( see media thread,) said LE confident BK acted alone. Nothing's changed since then. Jmo

Also, jmo there is zero to speculate off, that timing of 911 call had any bearing on the murders; is irrelevant to who, why and how.

Moo

There were so many rumors in those early days, and I went back to look at them a few hours ago. Many of them were completely wrong.

 

[Charlot123]

I believe it's a known fact, yes, that police were called after survivors called some friends over. IIRC One (1) person, not resident at the house, made the 911 call re "unconscious person" using either DM or BF's phone. Presumably after seeing XK or EC motionless in XK's room. That person would have been in extreme shock. Jmo

I'm sure there were a few small reports by papers such as Idaho Statesman which reported these basic facts. Media thread is good place to look if interested. Jmo

What's not a known fact, but imo comes from the rumour mill, is that there were a lot (unspecified,) of people running round inside the house before police were called. LE did not and has not released any details to that effect. If you can link to any msm that confirms this, or LE source, please post.

What we do know from MPD updates prior to the arrest, is inner circle and the two survivors were cleared by LE. Only one suspect is arrested. Chief Fry in arrest presser ( see media thread,) said LE confident BK acted alone. Nothing's changed since then. Jmo

Also, jmo there is zero to speculate off, that timing of 911 call had any bearing on the murders; is irrelevant to who, why and how.

Moo

I am not even surprised by someone calling a friend instead of 911 because in emergency, the mind occasionally makes illogical decisions. I am just thinking that the scene was difficult to process.

 

[MassGuy]

I am not even surprised by someone calling a friend instead of 911 because in emergency, the mind occasionally makes illogical decisions. I am just thinking that the scene was difficult to process.

It wouldn't be ideal as far as footprints go, but the victim's were apparently killed in the bedrooms. There would have been minimal, if any impact to the processing of those areas.

It's not like they were lying dead, and people were walking around them.

 

[Charlot123]

I'm sorry, I'm not following your logic. Who is going to frame Kohlberger? I'm not disputing him possibly having returned to the scene of the crime. I think that he DID accidentally drop the sheath during the murders. People do leave their phones. Matthew Muller left his at the scene of one of his crimes- that's how he was caught. They also leave them at restaurants. I myself have done that. Didn't see it on the colorful tile in the Mexican restaurant. (I've even left my laptop behind at another restaurant because it was on the chair next to me and I was busy talking to someone as I walked out- 45 min later, after they closed I realized it). The sheath is considered part of the murder weapon because it houses it, just like a gun holster. Even IF it belonged to the victim, (for which there is zero evidence), there's no reason for Kohlberger's DNA to be on it.

Afraid that you misunderstood me. I am not saying anyone is going to frame BK. I wonder if he could have been framed by someone else.

When I was thinking of who could do it in the very beginning, I immediately excluded both ex-boyfriends, and the survivors. On my list, the highest suspect was: - the person who had beef with both XK and MM (KG and EC being collateral victims); - or someone who hated EC (XK by default and the two girls upstairs being removed as the witnesses); or - a lonely killed without any connection to any victims. That option Nr 3 became Nr 1 is surprising. Honestly, I always felt that the murderer had to be closer, to have visited the house before, for example. This being said, if BK is found guilty or additional information is revealed during the trial, I shall not be that shocked.

Now, here is what I see on photos and videos of BK: very tense. Except for one, where he is stopped by a policewoman and he is talking to her. Some people view it as “mansplaining”, I see something very different, he is talkative because he is not so tense.

If I had just one way to explain it, I’d say, he probably relapsed. And also, that sadly, his main drug of choice works so well for him. It happens.

Also, I feel that BK being so horrible to students and then stopping to care could be explained by “pre-relapse” and “post-relapse.”

But being a TA, he probably didn’t want to be caught in WA, so driving to Moscow for “shopping”, this I can see. And maybe he bought the stuff somewhere, and left the sheath, and later that person in whose place he left it came to 1122 Kings Road and was involved in murders and placed it to frame BK.

Maybe it is too complex. Maybe he really planned to kill one person in the house and instead, it turned into a mass murder.

 

[LinasK]

Afraid that you misunderstood me. I am not saying anyone is going to frame BK. I wonder if he could have been framed by someone else.

When I was thinking of who could do it in the very beginning, I immediately excluded both ex-boyfriends, and the survivors. On my list, the highest suspect was: - the person who had beef with both XK and MM (KG and EC being collateral victims); - or someone who hated EC (XK by default and the two girls upstairs being removed as the witnesses); or - a lonely killed without any connection to any victims. That option Nr 3 became Nr 1 is surprising. Honestly, I always felt that the murderer had to be closer, to have visited the house before, for example. This being said, if BK is found guilty or additional information is revealed during the trial, I shall not be that shocked.

Now, here is what I see on photos and videos of BK: very tense. Except for one, where he is stopped by a policewoman and he is talking to her. Some people view it as “mansplaining”, I see something very different, he is talkative because he is not so tense.

If I had just one way to explain it, I’d say, he probably relapsed. And also, that sadly, his main drug of choice works so well for him. It happens.

Also, I feel that BK being so horrible to students and then stopping to care could be explained by “pre-relapse” and “post-relapse.”

But being a TA, he probably didn’t want to be caught in WA, so driving to Moscow for “shopping”, this I can see. And maybe he bought the stuff somewhere, and left the sheath, and later that person in whose place he left it came to 1122 Kings Road and was involved in murders and placed it to frame BK.

Maybe it is too complex. Maybe he really planned to kill one person in the house and instead, it turned into a mass murder.

To me, it's the later. He focused on one girl, didn't expect bedmates/roommates and couldn't stop/leave witnesses. I don't know why the other two roommates survived. Maybe he didn't know about them, maybe he ran out of energy...

 

[Nila Aella]

I believe it's a known fact, yes, that police were called after survivors called some friends over. IIRC One (1) person, not resident at the house, made the 911 call re "unconscious person" using either DM or BF's phone. Presumably after seeing XK or EC motionless in XK's room. That person would have been in extreme shock. Jmo

I'm sure there were a few small reports by papers such as Idaho Statesman which reported these basic facts. Media thread is good place to look if interested. Jmo

What's not a known fact, but imo comes from the rumour mill, is that there were a lot (unspecified,) of people running round inside the house before police were called. LE did not and has not released any details to that effect. If you can link to any msm that confirms this, or LE source, please post.

What we do know from MPD updates prior to the arrest, is inner circle and the two survivors were cleared by LE. Only one suspect is arrested. Chief Fry in arrest presser ( see media thread,) said LE confident BK acted alone. Nothing's changed since then. Jmo

Also, jmo there is zero to speculate off, that timing of 911 call had any bearing on the murders; is irrelevant to who, why and how.

Moo

Police reveal ‘multiple’ friends were in Idaho murder house when 911 call was made​

“At 11.58am, a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person. The call originated from inside the residence on one of the surviving roommates’ cell phone,” Moscow city’s police department wrote in a Facebook post on Sunday without revealing the identity of the caller.

“Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before a Moscow Police officer arrived at the location. Officers entered the residence and found the four victims on the second and third floors,” the department added.

Idaho college murders: "Other friends" were in the house when 911 call was made, police say​

Updated on: November 21, 2022 / 7:39 PM EST / CBS/AP

There were additional people other than the two surviving roommates inside the house where four University of Idaho students were found stabbed to death at the time the 911 call was made, police revealed Sunday. According to Moscow Police Chief James Fry, the 911 call was made using one of those roommates' phones, but he would not confirm the caller's identity.

Police said Sunday they do not believe any of the people who were at the home when the 911 call was made are the killer. A week after the murders, police still have no suspect.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwii34-JpLuLAxWcF1kFHS3LH4EQFnoECBkQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.the-independent.com%2Fnews%2Fworld%2Famericas%2Fcrime%2Fpolice-university-of-idaho-murder-b2229418.html&usg=AOvVaw05Kg66i7s9uUeB2QMg41tQ&opi=89978449

Fry on Sunday said police are not sure exactly how many people were in the home when the 911 call was placed, but that there were "other friends that had arrived at the location" present. He did not specify when they arrived.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwii34-JpLuLAxWcF1kFHS3LH4EQFnoECBQQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbsnews.com%2Fnews%2Fidaho-college-murders-911-call-roommate-phone%2F&usg=AOvVaw20xzvKzVQUgpk3Rebm0Vvz&opi=89978449

Press conference

Press release

City of Moscow Police Department​

November 20, 2022 ·
Moscow Homicide Update
November 20, 2022
MOSCOW, Idaho – The Moscow Police Department is providing the following information to update the public on the known facts surrounding the four murders that occurred on November 13th in Moscow, Idaho.
Updated Information:
• Detectives are releasing that on the morning of November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up. At 11:58 a.m., a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person. The call originated from inside the residence on one of the surviving roommates’ cell phone. Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before a Moscow Police officer arrived at the location. Officers entered the residence and found the four victims on the second and third floors

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiv1oOAp7uLAxX1FlkFHdjlLXYQFnoECBYQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.insideedition.com%2Funiversity-of-idaho-murders-cops-say-other-friends-were-in-house-when-911-call-was-made-78151&usg=AOvVaw2YJQrSFgtRkOnR5sFQLyra&opi=89978449

JMO

 

[LinasK]

Afraid that you misunderstood me. I am not saying anyone is going to frame BK. I wonder if he could have been framed by someone else.

When I was thinking of who could do it in the very beginning, I immediately excluded both ex-boyfriends, and the survivors. On my list, the highest suspect was: - the person who had beef with both XK and MM (KG and EC being collateral victims); - or someone who hated EC (XK by default and the two girls upstairs being removed as the witnesses); or - a lonely killed without any connection to any victims. That option Nr 3 became Nr 1 is surprising. Honestly, I always felt that the murderer had to be closer, to have visited the house before, for example. This being said, if BK is found guilty or additional information is revealed during the trial, I shall not be that shocked.

Now, here is what I see on photos and videos of BK: very tense. Except for one, where he is stopped by a policewoman and he is talking to her. Some people view it as “mansplaining”, I see something very different, he is talkative because he is not so tense.

If I had just one way to explain it, I’d say, he probably relapsed. And also, that sadly, his main drug of choice works so well for him. It happens.

Also, I feel that BK being so horrible to students and then stopping to care could be explained by “pre-relapse” and “post-relapse.”

But being a TA, he probably didn’t want to be caught in WA, so driving to Moscow for “shopping”, this I can see. And maybe he bought the stuff somewhere, and left the sheath, and later that person in whose place he left it came to 1122 Kings Road and was involved in murders and placed it to frame BK.

Maybe it is too complex. Maybe he really planned to kill one person in the house and instead, it turned into a mass murder.

Thinking about your scenario more. If he left the sheath in some store, he left the knife as well. Once again, unless the SODDI wore latex gloves, why isn't their DNA on it, and what's the connection/motive to murder all 4 people and blame it on him? Why wasn't another car besides his spotted in the area and that person just happened to have a cell phone off??? It's just too improbable. Everything points to him.

 

[Charlot123]

Thinking about your scenario more. If he left the sheath in some store, he left the knife as well. Once again, unless the SODDI wore latex gloves, why isn't their DNA on it, and what's the connection/motive to murder all 4 people and blame it on him? Why wasn't another car besides his spotted in the area and that person just happened to have a cell phone off??? It's just too improbable. Everything points to him.

Probably. It is just hard to reconcile two things,

- that in the town, with the victims being well-known. but also, very different and visibly going via divergent paths, with so many people in their orbit, no one is involved,

- and, that a loner in another state, probably training to be a serial killer, instead, choosing not a trail (indeed, to the South of Pulman), but breaking into the house, most likely, planning to leave one body and leaving with four murders. Again, we are not talking about average person, and human behaviors are unpredictable, and maybe he was dreaming of such a scenario through all the Covid time, and the first time he moved out of the house, he tried it. But what a weird mess.

 

[Charlot123]

To me, it's the later. He focused on one girl, didn't expect bedmates/roommates and couldn't stop/leave witnesses. I don't know why the other two roommates survived. Maybe he didn't know about them, maybe he ran out of energy...

I think he was unaware of them.

 

[jepop]

Police reveal ‘multiple’ friends were in Idaho murder house when 911 call was made​

“At 11.58am, a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person. The call originated from inside the residence on one of the surviving roommates’ cell phone,” Moscow city’s police department wrote in a Facebook post on Sunday without revealing the identity of the caller.

“Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before a Moscow Police officer arrived at the location. Officers entered the residence and found the four victims on the second and third floors,” the department added.

Idaho college murders: "Other friends" were in the house when 911 call was made, police say​

Updated on: November 21, 2022 / 7:39 PM EST / CBS/AP

There were additional people other than the two surviving roommates inside the house where four University of Idaho students were found stabbed to death at the time the 911 call was made, police revealed Sunday. According to Moscow Police Chief James Fry, the 911 call was made using one of those roommates' phones, but he would not confirm the caller's identity.

Police said Sunday they do not believe any of the people who were at the home when the 911 call was made are the killer. A week after the murders, police still have no suspect.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwii34-JpLuLAxWcF1kFHS3LH4EQFnoECBkQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.the-independent.com%2Fnews%2Fworld%2Famericas%2Fcrime%2Fpolice-university-of-idaho-murder-b2229418.html&usg=AOvVaw05Kg66i7s9uUeB2QMg41tQ&opi=89978449

Fry on Sunday said police are not sure exactly how many people were in the home when the 911 call was placed, but that there were "other friends that had arrived at the location" present. He did not specify when they arrived.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwii34-JpLuLAxWcF1kFHS3LH4EQFnoECBQQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbsnews.com%2Fnews%2Fidaho-college-murders-911-call-roommate-phone%2F&usg=AOvVaw20xzvKzVQUgpk3Rebm0Vvz&opi=89978449

Press conference

Press release

City of Moscow Police Department​

November 20, 2022 ·
Moscow Homicide Update
November 20, 2022
MOSCOW, Idaho – The Moscow Police Department is providing the following information to update the public on the known facts surrounding the four murders that occurred on November 13th in Moscow, Idaho.
Updated Information:
• Detectives are releasing that on the morning of November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up. At 11:58 a.m., a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person. The call originated from inside the residence on one of the surviving roommates’ cell phone. Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before a Moscow Police officer arrived at the location. Officers entered the residence and found the four victims on the second and third floors

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiv1oOAp7uLAxX1FlkFHdjlLXYQFnoECBYQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.insideedition.com%2Funiversity-of-idaho-murders-cops-say-other-friends-were-in-house-when-911-call-was-made-78151&usg=AOvVaw2YJQrSFgtRkOnR5sFQLyra&opi=89978449

JMO

Sure, the headline says multiple friends. But the actual reports say police haven't specified. Friends at the 'location' when police arrived does not mean that ,'multiple' ( 5 ? 20?, how many?) friends were in the house or had been all over the house.OP originally wrote of how many people were all over the house and this remains rumour,/unspecified imo.

There has to have been at least one other person inside the house who located the "unconscious person' and made the initial call. No doubt more friends may have been called over at that point. Jmo don't see all these kids mulling around in the house. My guess is they awaited outside in shock and horror. Again msm does not specify.

And the main point to me is why does any of this speculation matter? At this point assume the crime scene was processed in accordance with the situation ( whatever that may have been). That's the only relevance imo.

 

[mrjitty]

Thinking about your scenario more. If he left the sheath in some store, he left the knife as well. Once again, unless the SODDI wore latex gloves, why isn't their DNA on it, and what's the connection/motive to murder all 4 people and blame it on him? Why wasn't another car besides his spotted in the area and that person just happened to have a cell phone off??? It's just too improbable. Everything points to him.

The other obvious problem with this kind of theory is how will you get it in evidence?

Will BK testify that he touched a kabar in a store? Counsel can't just make up stuff and put it before the jury.

A lot of these speculative theories also become self referential where "the only evidence against him is the 'problematic' DNA" therefore all these other suspicious facts must have innocent explanations.

But will there be evidence the defendant typically does things like sort his trash with latex gloves on, and put it in the neighbours bins? Or will it just be sock puppet testimony by counsel?

I call this henpecking the evidence - a form of logical fallacy (cherry picking/nutpicking etc)

MOO

 

[Charlot123]

Thinking about your scenario more. If he left the sheath in some store, he left the knife as well. Once again, unless the SODDI wore latex gloves, why isn't their DNA on it, and what's the connection/motive to murder all 4 people and blame it on him? Why wasn't another car besides his spotted in the area and that person just happened to have a cell phone off??? It's just too improbable. Everything points to him.

Not sure it was a store or a Burger King. I strongly suspect (just my assumption, no proof) is that he got himself a dealer in Idaho. Maybe got a dose, slept and left the sheath wherever he was. I honestly think he had a reason to go to Idaho, but I also think he’d never been to 1122 King road. Some other place. Maybe he got psychotic when high.