4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #99

[MassGuy]

All MOO

Isn't it something like humans shed 200,000,000 skin cells per day? Yet a sheath laying underneath a blanket and a victim only has what 20 skin cells ONLY in the button snap?

Is it possible? Maybe. But in my opinion it's nearly impossible unless the ONLY part of the sheath they actually tested was the button snap.


All MOO

It's not just possible, but makes complete sense. Like I said, even with direct skin contact (which may not even be the case), there's no guarantee it would contain victim DNA. I would think it would be standard to swab the entire item, but the absolute best part to swab would be the part that required pressure to be applied in an intentional manner. You know that's going to be from the killer, as opposed to DNA on other parts of the sheath.

The absence of DNA is not evidence of anything.

 

[CKS]

IIUC, @CKS does not believe that BK or his vehicle was at the house. I don't totally understand why but they have been consistent with that take on the case.

All MOO

That's not exactly what I believe or 'think' but I do believe there's no shot BK fled the scene after murdering four people with a knife in his white elantra. LE tore that car apart and did not find one spec of evidence which in my opinion rules out BK using his car to flee the scene.

Maybe if he shot four people and fled the scene. Or maybe if he had a few hours to clean up and then flee the scene. But that's not what happened. LE claims BK was in and out of the house in approximately 10-12 minutes and somehow only left a few skin cells at the scene.


All MOO

 

[CKS]

It's not just possible, but makes complete sense. Like I said, even with direct skin contact (which may not even be the case), there's no guarantee it would contain victim DNA. I would think it would be standard to swab the entire item, but the absolute best part to swab would be the part that required pressure to be applied in an intentional manner. You know that's going to be from the killer, as opposed to DNA on other parts of the sheath.

The absence of DNA is not evidence of anything.

All MOO

This 'part' that requires pressure is the button. I believe the DNA was found inside the groove of the snap which would be covered due to one's thumb pressing on the button.

The absence of DNA is evidence BK may have never been in that house is what it is.

All MOO

 

[Megnut]

IIUC is not 20 cells that were recovered, but enough DNA to support a single source full profile, matched to 20 alleles.

Or somesuch.

If BK took steps to reduce transfer, I'm not surprised that he was nearly successful.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

I've followed countless cases, and I've become pretty good at reading investigations, and predicting what is coming based on court documents/arguments. I cited specific reasons why this is probably true, which does not involve pointing at certain pieces of evidence and making illogical assumptions because I want a killer to be innocent.

I absolutely believe BK stalked that house, because that's what history tells us, the evidence tells us, and what this crime scene itself tells us.

He was in the area on multiple occasions, at times consistent with the timing of the murders. He knew the victims were in bed, and knew that females lived there. That second part is very important, and goes to stalking in a general sense. His background (numerous anecdotes) tells us that he is not only awkward around women, but hates them. He had either seen one of them before, or his stalking told him that multiple lived there.

 

[Arkay]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Dateline’s report ... it is a well-reputed true crime show with investigative reporting and a long history of exploring cases.

They are not amateurs and have well-placed sources who know much more than we know. It would be libel for them to report on their air something that is maliciously untrue.

I believe @Tricia would not post this if it weren’t properly sourced. After all, she knows the rules here!

JMO

 

[MeadowMuffin]

All MOO

That's not exactly what I believe or 'think' but I do believe there's no shot BK fled the scene after murdering four people with a knife in his white elantra. LE tore that car apart and did not find one spec of evidence which in my opinion rules out BK using his car to flee the scene.

Maybe if he shot four people and fled the scene. Or maybe if he had a few hours to clean up and then flee the scene. But that's not what happened. LE claims BK was in and out of the house in approximately 10-12 minutes and somehow only left a few skin cells at the scene.


All MOO

Chad Isaak in ND lay in wait for employees at a business to show up for their morning coffee meet-up. After the first couple entered, he stabbed and shot them both, even struggling with one of them. When the third employee entered, he stabbed and shot him, obscuring his body behind a workbench. The owner entered, he was stabbed to death. All told, 98 stab wounds total. CI was in the building maybe 20 minutes, because he had to wait for them all to arrive. Medical examiner said each murder would take 1-5 minutes to complete. Not one speck of DNA from CI was left behind. None, after stabbing 4 people, fighting one, knocking things over, hiding one body, etc. Caught because someone reported his strange behavior (wearing a full hunting style facemask in 40 degree weather) when he walked to the local McDonald's to retrieve his truck. They tracked the truck's movement, just like the Elantra. A LEO recognized his truck as belonging to his chiropractor, and CI was arrested. And incidentally, there were at least 3 loaded weapons nearby that the victims couldn't get to in time.

 

[Cool Cats]

All MOO

I don't know how anyone could believe that a sheath laying under a victim for over 8 hours somehow ONLY has a few microscopic skin cells from one person. It's simply not believable in my opinion.

I just hope there is body cam video of LE finding/discovering the 'placed' sheath. I say placed b/c that's what the PCA says.

All MOO

BK single cells on knife. If a juror ignores the scientific evidence he/she shouldn't be on the darn jury.

Death penalty case for crying out loud. Jurors are not allowed to invent evidence.

2 Cents

 

[CKS]

BK single cells on knife. If a juror ignores the scientific evidence he/she shouldn't be on the darn jury.

Death penalty case for crying out loud. Jurors are not allowed to invent evidence.

2 Cents

All MOO

You mean sheath right? you said single cells on knife.

 

[Cool Cats]

SBMFF

Until our laws change to state that one is guilty until proven innocent, I maintain that is not up to the defend to point out exculpatory evidence. This doesn't mean they can't do it. But it is not a requirement of reasonable doubt or a not guilty verdict.

MOO.

I would discuss all my exculpatory evidence with my attorneys. It is the most important thing.

exculpatory evidence​

In criminal law , exculpatory evidence is evidence , such as a statement, tending to excuse , justify, or absolve the alleged fault or guilt of a defendant . In other words, exculpatory evidence is favorable to the defendant. In contrast to it, inculpatory evidence tends to stress guilt.

See also: Brady Rule .

exculpatory evidence

www.law.cornell.edu

2 Cents

 

[StarryStarryNight]

All MOO

Without the transfer DNA on a moveable object LE has literally NOTHING on BK. Nada.


All MOO

This is not a case, and I would argue no case, involves laying all the evidence out on a table and declaring that every single thing on that table, individually and by itself, points to a defendant’s guilt. It’s all the evidence, taken as a whole, that works to that end.
I will add that any DNA on any object in that house, especially one on a moveable object that is used to carry a weapon of a type known to have been used in a murder, is highly suspicious.
I will say it again, BK’s DNA, of any kind, should not be anywhere in that house. Until someone for the defense can explain how it got there, they’ve got a problem.

Opinion

 

[Cool Cats]

All MOO

Without the transfer DNA on a moveable object LE has literally NOTHING on BK. Nada.


All MOO

Nothing?

Should I say it louder?

• 10,000 pages of reports and other written materials
• 10,200 photographs
• 9,200 tips
• 51 terabytes of audio/visual media and digital materials
• Alibi that puts BK in the vicinity of the murder scene

THERE IS ALOT OF EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE

2 Cents

 

[Cool Cats]

All MOO

You mean sheath right? you said single cells on knife.

Yes, Snap on sheath. I do believe the victim's blood was likely on knife.

2 Cents

 

[mmeynstyn]

Snipped by me for focus...

This is MOO. But I believe that during the last hearings AT confirmed (IMO) that LE's video from 1125 Ridge Road has something that can positively identify BK's Elantra. I remember reading in early reporting shortly after BKs arrest that it might have been a Ring camera.

During the hearing AT essentially makes the case that one or two of the videos (ridge, pullman) might be BK but there's no way to say for sure. And that LE only made all of the videos the same Elantra because of IGG. JMO

She's further going out of her way (IMO) to weaponize prosecutors' admission that there's no evidence of stalking.

She wants BK's totally-not-stalking behavior of

• a) previous late night visits to the neighborhood (as assumed by cell tower connections)
• b) being pulled over in the neighborhood late one night
  
  to be conflated with....
• c) BK in the neighborhood on the night of the murders

THEY ARE ALL ONE IN THE SAME the defense wnats us to believe. Benign. Prosecutors jumping to conclusions. Not stalking and certainly not murder. Just a normal night of normal BK driving. Nothing remarkable here. MOO

We've seen this strategy from the defense before. Just like with CODIS vs IGG. Just like with STR vs SNP. Local lab vs Othram. The only place they draw the conflation line is at the 2013 vs 2015 Elantra. MOO.

Sidenote: This is all especially interesting because she seems to concede to positive ID on Ridge Road but makes the argument that BKs car was not pointing towards Moscow in the Pullman video. How did he get to Ridge Road then?

MOO

Edit: Sorry for the barely legible grammatical mistakes this AM

As I also recall in the video, AT was suggested that there were various other videos throughout the area / several other videos. However, I also remember her having a back and forth with JH regarding no license plate was captured on the videos. JH is the one that actually brings up the traffic stop and that it was used to show that there was no front license plate. IMO, JH was trying to point out that the various other cameras cannot show what isn't there.

The "various other cameras / several cameras comment stood out to me. IMO, I think the 1125 Ridge Rd camera was not the only camera on Ridge Rd that captured a White Elantra. We are aware of the circling video in the apartment complex adjacent to 1122 King Rd. We are aware of the gas station video. Now the Ridge Rd camera. I can't help but think that was not the only Ridge Rd camera to pick up a White Elantra, JMO.

AT's admission that "He did go to Moscow; He did drive around" was one of the highlights for me. AT states this @ 1:30:58 of Jan 23. She indicates the phone records will show this. But wait...didn't she use the argument that the car was headed away from Moscow when it was captured on WSU video? IMO, she is contradicting herself. And, what happened to the moon and stars? IMO, away from the city of Moscow would have been better viewing. Oh wait, the cell phone was originally supposed to show he was nowhere near Moscow. Wonder what alibi will be used in trial now.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Probably. It is just hard to reconcile two things,

- that in the town, with the victims being well-known. but also, very different and visibly going via divergent paths, with so many people in their orbit, no one is involved,

- and, that a loner in another state, probably training to be a serial killer, instead, choosing not a trail (indeed, to the South of Pulman), but breaking into the house, most likely, planning to leave one body and leaving with four murders. Again, we are not talking about average person, and human behaviors are unpredictable, and maybe he was dreaming of such a scenario through all the Covid time, and the first time he moved out of the house, he tried it. But what a weird mess.

Right - Who knows what an evil mind is capable of? Yes, I think BK has an evil mind. JMO

Loner in another state was approx 10 -12 minute drive, not hundreds of miles. Plus it was another college campus with oodles of gorgeous young coeds who didn't give BK the time of day. I absolutely believe he stalked that house, and one or more of the occupants which will come out at trial.

The State and Defense have played the name game on the definition of the word 'stalking' not wanting to reveal their hand publicly until trial.

Maybe BK wanted to reenact the C list movie his sister appeared in about college kids getting murdered? Something was very dysfunctional in that household in regards to BK. Proven boundary issues with females from High School (was forced to change electives to all male HVAC - extreme) and College age young women as well. The 'Warning, Danger' is a real gut instinct developed over centuries for survival in some people.

But to believe someone, somehow planted BK's DNA on the knife sheath left at the murder scene, drove his vehicle around the crime scene house while being caught on surveillance and LE, FBI, Othram and NASA set out to frame him up is a stretch even Gumby can't get to.

All JMO

 

[NCWatcher]

What evidence do you have that it's not true?

We know that multiple warrants for specific time periods were executed on Amazon. We know that the Amazon warrants are damaging due to the defense's extensive efforts to have them thrown out.

This came from sources close to the investigation, and has never been walked back by NBC News, nor has it been refuted in any way. They are putting their credibility on the line, and it's not something they would recklessly broadcast without corroboration.

I think the odds of it being true are far more probable than not.

But the dates the warrants cover don't match what Dateline reported (that a purchase was made in April 2022 while warrants for Amazon were reported to cover a week in March 2022 and a fall period beginning in Nov 2022.) Also the info sent to LE because of the warrants was reportedly received in July 2023 months after Dateline reported what it reported.

Idaho authorities probe Amazon 'click activity' for knives possibly connected to college killings

The murder weapon in the quadruple killings has not been found.

abcnews.go.com

NBC's Dateline could be wrong or ABC's reporting could be wrong. Or both. I don't think we know. But I've not seen multiple reports from NBC of the Dateline finding that was purportedly leaked by anonymous sources close to LE.
MOO

 

[MassGuy]

But the dates the warrants cover don't match what Dateline reported (that a purchase was made in April 2022 while warrants for Amazon were reported to cover a week in March 2022 and a fall period beginning in Nov 2022.) Also the info sent to LE because of the warrants was reportedly received in July 2023 months after Dateline reported what it reported.

Idaho authorities probe Amazon 'click activity' for knives possibly connected to college killings

The murder weapon in the quadruple killings has not been found.

abcnews.go.com

NBC's Dateline could be wrong or ABC's reporting could be wrong. Or both. I don't think we know. But I've not seen multiple reports from NBC of the Dateline finding that was purportedly leaked by anonymous sources close to LE.
MOO

An investigative source getting the date wrong doesn't concern me. It's unlikely it was someone currently directly involved (dozens of FBI agents and detectives worked this case, especially early on).

Dateline falls under the NBC news umbrella, and almost certainly follows the same protocols when it comes to the use of anonymous sources (high level of credibility, corroboration from other sources, editorial approval).

We're not talking about the Daily Mail, or NY Post here.

Does it ring true to me? Yes

It makes complete sense that BK would purchase the knife on Amazon, especially considering the date (6-7 months prior to the murders). This would have been part of the fantasy phase, as opposed to a stage where he had committed to an attack, and a target.

The defense's efforts to keep this Amazon stuff out, and the specificity of the warrant time range, tells me that it's very significant.

I give this accuracy confidence of 85%.

 

[Charlot123]

Right - Who knows what an evil mind is capable of? Yes, I think BK has an evil mind. JMO

Loner in another state was approx 10 -12 minute drive, not hundreds of miles. Plus it was another college campus with oodles of gorgeous young coeds who didn't give BK the time of day. I absolutely believe he stalked that house, and one or more of the occupants which will come out at trial.

The State and Defense have played the name game on the definition of the word 'stalking' not wanting to reveal their hand publicly until trial.

Maybe BK wanted to reenact the C list movie his sister appeared in about college kids getting murdered? Something was very dysfunctional in that household in regards to BK. Proven boundary issues with females from High School (was forced to change electives to all male HVAC - extreme) and College age young women as well. The 'Warning, Danger' is a real gut instinct developed over centuries for survival in some people.

But to believe someone, somehow planted BK's DNA on the knife sheath left at the murder scene, drove his vehicle around the crime scene house while being caught on surveillance and LE, FBI, Othram and NASA set out to frame him up is a stretch even Gumby can't get to.

All JMO

I am talking only about the knife. The car, sadly...LE's own consultant put the year wrong, ending by 2014, so BK's car is out of their own margin. (I understand that the car is driving, at night. But ask my kid about any airplane up in the sky, and you'll not get such mistakes. Or maybe it was not a mistake.) Specialists are usually connoisseurs, they'd change travel paths to visit abandoned car museums, they live by their knowledge of cars. I think that car perhaps was of a different year and not BK's. Elantra part is not convincing, tbh. Either LE has to admit, "our specialists are not specialists", or stick with their original definition, 2012-2014, then it is not BK. I bet if one checks the cars of people living around, there'd be some white Elantras, so that's not a proof.

To me, the question stays with this sheath. Maybe they have information they haven't yet disclosed.

 

[NCWatcher]

An investigative source getting the date wrong doesn't concern me. It's unlikely it was someone currently directly involved (dozens of FBI agents and detectives worked this case, especially early on).

Dateline falls under the NBC news umbrella, and almost certainly follows the same protocols when it comes to the use of anonymous sources (high level of credibility, corroboration from other sources, editorial approval).

We're not talking about the Daily Mail, or NY Post here.

Does it ring true to me? Yes

It makes complete sense that BK would purchase the knife on Amazon, especially considering the date (6-7 months prior to the murders). This would have been part of the fantasy phase, as opposed to a stage where he had committed to an attack, and a target.

The defense's efforts to keep this Amazon stuff out, and the specificity of the warrant time range, tells me that it's very significant.

I give this accuracy confidence of 85%.

I follow most of what you said. But I still don't see how Dateline could have the Amazon data before 1) the Amazon warrants were issued and 2) Amazon responded. The time periods and dates of issuance of the warrants ARE very specific. And no matter how close to the investigation the source was, how could he/she know stuff before LE asked for and got the data? I guess it's possible it was unofficial info from Amazon. But it seems even more odd to get the date wrong in that case.
MOO

 

[Jade]

Right - Who knows what an evil mind is capable of? Yes, I think BK has an evil mind. JMO

Loner in another state was approx 10 -12 minute drive, not hundreds of miles. Plus it was another college campus with oodles of gorgeous young coeds who didn't give BK the time of day. I absolutely believe he stalked that house, and one or more of the occupants which will come out at trial.

The State and Defense have played the name game on the definition of the word 'stalking' not wanting to reveal their hand publicly until trial.

Maybe BK wanted to reenact the C list movie his sister appeared in about college kids getting murdered? Something was very dysfunctional in that household in regards to BK. Proven boundary issues with females from High School (was forced to change electives to all male HVAC - extreme) and College age young women as well. The 'Warning, Danger' is a real gut instinct developed over centuries for survival in some people.

But to believe someone, somehow planted BK's DNA on the knife sheath left at the murder scene, drove his vehicle around the crime scene house while being caught on surveillance and LE, FBI, Othram and NASA set out to frame him up is a stretch even Gumby can't get to.

All JMO

Well, he’s just an excitable boy.


imo