Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #199

[TTF14]

@Niner
17/10/24: DEFENDANT'S BRIEF IN RESPONSE TO PROSECUTION’S MOTION IN LIMINE REGARDING COMPOSITE SKETCHES

Defendant’s Response to State’s Motion in Limine Re: Sketches

drive.google.com

Besides some grammatical/punctuation errors.....excellent response, in my opinion. The sketches should be allowed in.

There seems to be a very fine line between confusing the jury with irrelevant information and withholding exculpatory evidence so as not to confuse the jury into acquitting Mr. Allen.

As always, JMO.

 

[Vern]

Are you aware that Richard Allen puts himself at the park and on the bridge?

Do you know what he said he was wearing?

How important are the witnesses when RA came forward freely to DD to say he was there at that time?


The witnesses gave statements in retrospect.

It is not proper for witnesses to report to anyone beyond LE what they saw and heard.

It is not the witnesses place to make conjectures.

Witnesses are not fair game for picking on as all they are asked to provide is what they saw or heard to the best of their recollection.



all imo

NVM that the witnesses all identified the individual they saw based upon his clothing which was similar to the released photo and the video and not his face.

NVM that RA himself placed himself on the trail and on the bridge, at the time of the crime, at the time of the eye witness sightings, and admited himself to wearing very similar clothing to their descriptions. Clothing that by his own description matches that seen in Abby & Libbey's video.

What came first? The clothing identification or the sketchs?

 

[arielilane]

Posted three (8:00 am ET) hours ago

https://twitter.com/x/status/1847247353167655297

 

[girlhasnoname]

What I’m saying is, to the best of my knowledge based on the information we have so far, none of the witnesses who said they saw a man at the trails that day have said it was Richard Allen, after his arrest.

I’m not saying they should have recognized him in the community. Just that they have not recognized him as being the man they saw that day.

Again, that’s based on the information we have so far. But we know the witnesses for a fact that they witnesses who helped create the sketches can’t identify him.

We don't have the State's information about everything the witnesses said or did, especially not for a fact that they can't or didn't identify who they saw as RA.

MOO

 

[TristanP]

I want to hear RA speak his truth...but I think we'll only get to read it? If his audio/video and letters get admitted to evidence does the media get a copy?

They won’t get a copy but they’ll get approximately 22 seconds each to look at evidence after trial each day, during a 15 min block of time Gull has graciously permitted them.

 

[Megnut]

@Niner
17/10/24: DEFENDANT'S BRIEF IN RESPONSE TO PROSECUTION’S MOTION IN LIMINE REGARDING COMPOSITE SKETCHES

Defendant’s Response to State’s Motion in Limine Re: Sketches

drive.google.com

Is the Defense stipulating to the murders occurring prior to 4 pm? (Item 5)

If the sketches come in, I hope the State can show how the defendant has changed his appearance, but mostly, counter the Defense. Sketches aren't photographs.

I don't think ultimately the sketches help or hurt but admitting them has the potential to chew up a lot of precious time.

IMO the sketches Stent on trial. RA is.

JMO

 

[arielilane]

9:05 AM​

Allen’s defense has filed a response to the prosecution’s Motion in Limine Regarding Composite Sketches. Judge Francis Gull is expected to rule on this motion today.


Delphi Murders trial: Day 1 live blog

Updated: Oct 18, 2024 / 09:10 AM EST

 

[girlhasnoname]

Are you aware that Richard Allen puts himself at the park and on the bridge?

Do you know what he said he was wearing?

How important are the witnesses when RA came forward freely to DD to say he was there at that time?


The witnesses gave statements in retrospect.

It is not proper for witnesses to report to anyone beyond LE what they saw and heard.

It is not the witnesses place to make conjectures.

Witnesses are not fair game for picking on as all they are asked to provide is what they saw or heard to the best of their recollection.



all imo

All this and add in the fact that a child killer was still out there not arrested. MOO

 

[Emma Peel]

At this point I'm wondering if there will be eyewitness testimony from the P at all?
Eyewitness testimony was critical for the search warrant and PCA. I guess I thought we'd hear that same testimony from the P's eyewitnesses on the stand in court as well. It's wait and see time. JMHO

 

[joe jones]

I have always had and will always have issues with using jail house snitches to testily, I think I read yesterday they have 18 to testify in this trial, 18 witnesses the state may call to testily is beyond anything I have ever heard happening in trial and IMO goes to the possible lack of witnesses they have to actually testify to probative evidence that points to RA.

If all they still have is the bullet his admitting to being on trail that day, he wears similar clothes to half of Indiana and his confessions then state will have to work very hard to stretch that into a conviction, but again my opinion he will be convicted no matter the strength or weakness of states case. I doubt anyone of the jurors would want to live with people knowing they were part of the jury that didn't convict him. Which IMO is why the defence has been very diligent in getting everything on the record preserved for appeals later on.

We shall see over the next few weeks what other evidence they may or may not have and one last IMO I think one bullet cannot be definitively tied to a gun with any degree of scientific validity, but I also think RA may possibly be the killer but I wouldn't convict him on what I know about the evidence as of today

 

[TTF14]

Is the Defense stipulating to the murders occurring prior to 4 pm? (Item 5)

If the sketches come in, I hope the State can show how the defendant has changed his appearance, but mostly, counter the Defense. Sketches aren't photographs.

I don't think ultimately the sketches help or hurt but admitting them has the potential to chew up a lot of precious time.

IMO the sketches Stent on trial. RA is.

JMO

All true, but there is a stark difference between Young Guy Sketch and what RA looks like. And the witness providing the information for that particular sketch said she gave it a 10 out of 10 for accuracy. It's kind of a big deal, in my opinion. I don't blame the State for not wanting the jurors to know about it.

Memorandum in Support of Motion for Franks Hearing.pdf

drive.google.com

As always, JMO.

 

[Seattle1]

I've just joined to follow on this case. I've been around for a while but I cannot believe this day has finally got here.
I hope those girls get justice in whatever form and I hope the truth comes out.
Seeing the probable cause video and the time the murderer spent with them just makes me feel so sad.

Welcome to WS @BexLuth0r and good to have you supporting the victims and sharing your thoughts.

 

[somequestions]

The evidence I would like to see more of is the pictures of Libby and Abby on the bridge, especially pictures after the one Libby took of Abby that Libby posted at 2:07pm. Are there any more pictures? I would also like to see the entire 43 second video to try to provide some clarity to how bridge guy approached Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

The confessions will probably go a long way towards determining Richard Allen's guilt or innocence. I still cannot figure out how tall the bridge guy is in Liberty German's phone video.

 

[FrostedGlass]

In summary, I think it came down to a desperate attempt by the defense to pull a page from the Karen Read trial to allege corruption by Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland on an unrelated case. McLeland still the lead today so it failed miserably, next... MOO

I haven't seen anything about that, either. None of the fillings I've read have any mention of such a thing; can you link it?

 

[MiniMoo]

Witnesses

With the teenage female witnesses that day on the trail that saw a "creepy man" was it three teenagers only or three teenagers and a child?

Can anyone clarify that at all?

The reason I ask is because RA more or less did mention seeing 3 which is either in the Franks or PCA documents, but I'm sure I saw somewhere else (could be on WSs) that there was also a child only the child is never really brought up.

Does anyone know?

Just my thoughts and wonderings:

If he saw 3 and that group of girls was actually a party of 4 - did RA see a different set of girls that day and that party of 4 ... someone else?

3 is different to 4.

This is another question I hope the trial clears up.

 

[TTF14]

At this point I'm wondering if there will be eyewitness testimony from the P at all?
Eyewitness testimony was critical for the search warrant and PCA. I guess I thought we'd hear that same testimony from the P's eyewitnesses on the stand in court as well. It's wait and see time. JMHO

One would think!

We haven't seen (yet) that they want to actually block their testimony, though, right? Just the sketches?

As always, JMO.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Seems to me initial Tweets/X about the placement of ribbons were misstated:

This case has been a disaster from Day 1. It's nice to see the state is being consistent. Horrible optics.AMOO

 

[minazoe]

I'm left wondering if RA committed more crimes in the 5 years he was free to roam. I guess I'm pretty confident the prosecution will prevail. mOO

 

[gremlin444]

Why would the defense withdraw their request?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846928520053665819

My impression is that they filed to withdraw after all the jurors were selected.

They may have looked at the jurors, made an assessment as to whether or not some of the jurors would have significant issues getting to all the areas, and decided it would not be feasible.

 

[joe jones]

All true, but there is a stark difference between Young Guy Sketch and what RA looks like. And the witness providing the information for that particular sketch said she gave it a 10 out of 10 for accuracy. It's kind of a big deal, in my opinion. I don't blame the State for not wanting the jurors to know about it.

Memorandum in Support of Motion for Franks Hearing.pdf

drive.google.com

As always, JMO.

View attachment 538546

I agree, those sketches were used for years to plead with the public to tip in anybody that resembled them, the younger sketch causes more problems for the state as I have always wondered if the first sketch was drawn post the release of bridge guy video