Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #199

[sunshineray]

If he is, then there should be a public uproar imo! Considering how much this has / will cost the tax payers, who don’t even have access to the trial they’re paying for… they should be mad as heck if the State fails to prove their case Bard and RA is acquitted. To be clear - before anyone comes at me - I am not in any way suggesting any vocal or physical assaults towards the people involved on either side, nor towards the court staff, LE or jurors!! I am only positing that an acquittal should make people mad and in turn should make people really consider arrests more carefully in the future. Mooooo.

What would make you think LE and the Prosecution didn't carefully consider RA's arrest? It was in no way a rush to judgement in arresting RA. The investigation was very thoroughly done. MO

 

[24Roses]

IMO-this trial is a little like the Wagner/Rhoden trail in Ohio where the witnesses could opt out of audio and video during their testimony. It drove me crazy that we couldn't hear directly what Jake and Angela Wagner were saying.

 

[sunshineray]

And to be clear - not suggesting arrests shouldn’t be made. More saying if the State wants a conviction and to spend millions in trials / housing in prison or jail pre trial etc they should be certain of their case before they arrest someone is all. Maybe the State is certain and maybe they have the proof… I hope they do. Moo

Mistrials happen for a variety of reasons, a lot having to do with the jurors themselves, not the case being brought. There is that aspect of it too.
MO

 

[sunshineray]

This Bob Segall seems like quite the legal warrior. Good on him. In my opinion only.

I think KG from TMS will make sure he'll get to view them. They mentioned not being considered media by the court, they get no media passes. I think he was instrumental in getting the document dump, IIRC

 

[girlhasnoname]

And to be clear - not suggesting arrests shouldn’t be made. More saying if the State wants a conviction and to spend millions in trials / housing in prison or jail pre trial etc they should be certain of their case before they arrest someone is all. Maybe the State is certain and maybe they have the proof… I hope they do. Moo

I feel confident the State does have exactly that.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Oh, interesting! I wonder what they do in a case like this?! Maybe they have someone assigned to collect their ballots and deliver them to all the polling stations? It probably rarely happens.

I think the Court would have to allow for the jurors to cast a ballot in the election, if the trial isn't over by then. JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

That was the reason Diener gave, but I don’t think it was the real reason he wanted out.

They (Internet Cranks) doxed his family online, I think it was definitely the reason he wanted to recuse himself. JMO

 

[Niner]

Thursday, October 17th:
*Jury Sworn in & Motions Hearing (@ 9am ET) – IN – Abigail Joyce Williams (13) & Liberty Rose Lynn German (14) (Missing Feb. 13, 2017, found killed Feb. 14, 2017, after walking on a local hiking trail & were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the Monon High Bridge Trail, Delphi) – *Richard “Ricky/Rick” Matthew Allen (44 @ time of crime/50/now 52) arrested & booked (10/26/22) into the Carroll County Jail & charged & arraigned (10/28/22) with 2 counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims. Plead not guilty. Held without bond.
Amended charges (1/18/24/granted 3/18/24): 2 counts of felony murder (knowingly & intentionally), 2 counts of murder (while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims). Transferred to White County jail from Carroll County for security reasons. And was transferred (11/2/22) to IN. DOC at Westville Correctional Facility at a more secure facility. Was awaiting transfer to Westville Correctional Facility but Judge Gull denied move (6/15/23). She plans to take the arguments under advisement & will make a ruling on whether or not he will be moved out of Westville at a later date. Judge Gull denied move (7/5/23). On 12/6/23 Allen was transferred from Westville to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility (long term segregation). Allen was booked (5/6/24) into the Allen County Jail [for hearing on 5/7/24]. Allen back (5/7/24) to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility. Judge Gull granted transfer of custody to the Carroll County Sheriff [instead of IDOC] but will be held in Cass County jail until trial [8/1/24]. Carroll County
Trial began with jury selection on 10/14/24 (thru 10/16) & Trial reset to begin on 10/18/24. Jury will be sequestered.
Mondays thru Saturdays from 9am to 6pm. 12 jurors & 4 alternates [11 women & 5 men].
Allen County Judge Frances C. Gull presiding / Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland & Special Prosecutor James David Luttrull, Jr.
Andrew Baldwin & Bradley Rozzi are Allen’s public appointed attorneys & added Jennifer Auger [addressing the circumstances surrounding digital forensics].
Gull confirmed Allen’s trial will take place six days a week — Monday through Saturday — if there are no religious objections from any of the jurors.
Charges, case & court info from 4/19/21 thru 10/11/24 & Jury Selection Day 1 (10/14/24) reference post #704 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ers-richard-allen-arrested-198.725801/page-36
10/13/24 Docket updates: Defendant's Notice of Submission of Supplemental Witness & Exhibit List to the State filed by Allen. Motion in Limine - sketches.pdf filed by State.
10/14/4 Docket update: Motion in Limine - IPAS.pdf by State [See post #979, page 49, thread 198]. 10/15/24 Docket update: Verified Motion for Certificate of Appearance Regarding Out-of-State Witness filed by Allen [see post #936, page 47, thread 198]. Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland told the court in a motion in that the sketches should not be admitted for the reason that ‘a composite sketch is not relevant, admission would result in undue prejudice, confuse or mislead the jury, or is impermissible hearsay & the witnesses who participated in the preparation of composite sketch(s) will not be presented by the state for the purpose of in-court identification of the defendant.’ [See post #946, page 48, thread 198].
10/14/24 Docket update: Order issued. Court orders defendant's pleading, Verified Motion for Certificate of Appearance Regarding Out-Of-State Witness & accompanying Order, to be made a confidential pleading as counsel has included personal address information of a witness. Counsel ordered to file a redacted pleading removing the address filed by Judge Frances Gull. Noticed: McLeland, Baldwin, Rozzi, Luttrull, Diener & Auger.
10/14/24 Docket update: Order issued. The Court, having had defendant's Motion to Compel Despondents’ to answer Certified Questions, filed 9/23/24, under advisement & having reviewed the State's Response, filed 9/27/24 & the Non-Party Indiana DOC's Response to Defendant's Motion, filed 9/27/24, now denies the Motion to Compel without hearing for the reasons stated in the response filed 9/27/24 (attorney-client priviledge or work product privilege.) Filed by Judge Frances Gull. Noticed: McLeland, Baldwin, Rozzi, Luttrull, Diener & Auger.
10/15/24 Tuesday, Jury Selection Day 2: Jury selection for the #Delphi murders trial will wrap up today in Allen County. Judge Gull is expected to rule today on whether jurors will be allowed to visit the Delphi crime scene.
*3 Jurors have been dismissed. A mom with childcare issues, a professor with diabetes issues & working to confirm why the third juror was dismissed. Number of jurors is now at 11 [7 women & 4 men].
*15 jurors have been selected as of 11:45am [10 women & 5 men]. One more juror needs to be chosen.
*As of 1:15pm 16 jurors have been selected. BUT, Special Judge Fran Gull says juror selection “will continue” — it’s unclear why. We will be back in session at 2pm. At about 3:45pm 16 jurors have been selected – 12 jurors & 4 alternates [11 women & 5 men]
For more info see posts #818 [page 41] & #858 [page 43] & #912 [page 46] & #951 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ers-richard-allen-arrested-198.725801/page-48
Wednesday will be a day off. On Thursday, 10/17/24 jurors sworn in & pending motions discussed & trial begins on Friday, 10/18/24 @ 9am.
10/16/24 Docket updates: Order issued. The Court having had defendant's Motion to incorporate evidence presented at the 8/1/24 pretrial hearing into Offer of Proof at Trial, now grants the Motion with hearing. Defendant is authorized to incorporate the evidence admitted at the 8/1/24 hearing on the State's Motion in Limine regarding alleged third party suspects & alleged connections to the Norse Pagan Religion & the Odin Religion as an offer of proof regarding the issue at trial for purposes of judicial economy. Signed by Judge Frances Gull. Noticed: McLeland, Baldwin, Rozzi. Luttrull, Diener & Auger. Order issued. Pursuant to the Court's inherent authority to manage the Courtroom to ensure a fair trial & to ensure access to the public & the media, the Court issued this Addendum to the Decorum Order dated 9/30/24 as follows: The Public & the Media are reminded that no food or beverages will be permitted in the Carroll Circuit Courtroom. The Public & Media are reminded that no electronic devices of any kind are permitted in the Courthouse during the pendency of the trial. Press passes to the trial will be distributed at 3pm on 10/17/24 in the Carroll Circuit courtroom. The 12 jurors press passes will be provided to reps of the Delphi Trial Media Coalition as organized by Cydee Hebert on behalf of new media as defined in Indiana Code 34-46-4-1. Press who meets the I.C. 34-46-4-1 definition is invited to contact Ms. Hebert by email to join their coalition to be part of the news pool Disputes among media are previously addressed by the Court's 9/30/24 Order. Signed by Judge Frances Gull. Noticed: McLeland, Baldwin, Rozzi, Luttrull, Diener & Auger. See post #99, page 5, thread 199 for more info.
10/16/24 Docket updates: Order issued. The Court has received a Request for recording of Court Proceedings by News Media from Erica Facey, WISH-TV & denies same signed by Judge Frances Gull. Noticed: McLeland, Baldwin, Rozzi, Luttrull, Diener & Auger. Order Issued. Certificate of Appearance signed by Judge Gull. Noticed: McLeland, Baldwin, Rozzi, Luttrul, Dieer & Auger. [see page 88, page 5, thread 199]. 10/16/24 Docket update: Media to Be Allowed to View Trial Exhibits [see post 161, page 9, thread 199].

 

[girlhasnoname]

Thank you for the clarification. I did not realize Saturday was in session. Thank you also to @TTF14 and @Inthedetails! That schedule is a good find @steeltowngirl. @katydid23 I wouldn’t be so put out if hubby could visit; it would be something to look forward to at least.

The jurors were all aware of the circumstances of their duties before they were selected. Being put out by sequestration for a month is not convenient for sure, but they know this going in, no surprises. This is a serious, high profile case and I believe they will treat it as such. JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I'd have to be sneaking in the smallest smart phone I could manage, in my "prison wallet".

Seriously, I really couldn't be cut off from the world like that.

Respectfully, I'm glad you're not on the jury then. These jurors know what is expected of them and have agreed to abide by those requirements. A juror breaking the rules like that could cause a mistrial, or at the least, they would be replaced by an alternate. They will be sworn in today and transported to Delphi.

Friday will be the actual start of Opening Statements, #Justice4Abby&Libby. Long overdue and much anticipated. I feel confident a verdict will be reached. RA will be no longer be the 'poor fall guy' set up by hundreds of LE, ISP the FBI and others.

MOO

 

[Seattle1]

Many times I've seen opening statements promise or tease something that never comes to light at trial. MO

Very true and the reason why jurors are heavily cautioned by the Court that Opening (and Closing) Statements by attorneys are not evidence being given at trial as this only happens by sworn testimony by witnesses!

 

[Seattle1]

What’s the actual point of sequestering them if they get visitors?

It's not to prohibit them from contact with their immediate family.

Sequestration is extremely rare, but when it occurs it is meant for jurors' protection. It may be used to keep jurors away from the media during a controversial trial where widespread news coverage could influence a juror's decision.

Is Jury Sequestration Actually Effective? - Barry, Taylor & Levesque, LLC

Jury sequestration is still a hot topic, especially in high-profile cases. Contact Barry, Taylor & Levesque, LLC to discuss your case today.

www.bbsattorneys.com

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yes I had forgotten they can file whatever in motions without it being a gag violation. Sure does make me wonder if the evidence shows it was RA or if the state has made it FIT RA. Moooo.

How could the State make it FIT RA? I'm confused here. imo

 

[sunshineray]

Yes I had forgotten they can file whatever in motions without it being a gag violation. Sure does make me wonder if the evidence shows it was RA or if the state has made it FIT RA. Moooo.

They have his voice (maybe his image if they were video calls on the tablet?) and his letters, his handwriting, confessing to killing the girls.
He put himself at the crime scene, at the time, wearing the same clothes as BG.
How does that not fit all by itself, with no help?

 

[zh0r4]

OK, my apologies. My total misread because you brought up the PCA in which sketches aren't mentioned and stated them not testifying would be a win for the state.

My bad; really no biggie.

Bbm

While the sketches are not mentioned specifically in the PCA, one sketch that NM wants omitted is from eyewitness SC mentioned in the PCA (p. 4, PCA linked below). SC met with FBI sketch artist “Plantz” June 19, 2017 to illustrate what she witnessed per the PCA. The D says eyewitness SC’s account (stated in the PCA, p.4 & what sketch #1 was based on), was falsified by TL in the PCA-SC did not say she saw a man in a blue jacket but a tan jacket. She also did not say bloody. (Source 167, p. 116 linked below ‘Find attached a flash drive containing SC’s June 7, 2017, interview with Tony Liggett. It is marked as Exhibit 115. SC describes that the man she observed was wearing a tan color coat/lighter colored coat at the 5:07:30 mark.’).

BB, the eyewitness of sketch #2, met with a sketch artist 3 days after passing a potential suspect (from my understanding she would have passed BG on the bridge), was not mentioned in the PCA, and her sketch was not released until way after sketch #1, although she saw the suspect closer up and said the sketch was 10/10.

Specifically quoted from the D memo (p. 105-108; 115-117) which is linked below:

“BB’s first description of the man she saw on the bridge was memorialized in sketch #2 illustrated on February 17, 2017 (3 days after the girls were found) but not released to the public until April 22, 2019 - following Superintendent Doug Carter's press conference.

On February 17, 2017, BB met with State Police sketch artist Taylor D. Bryant and provided a description of the man she observed from 50 feet away on the Monon High Bridge - the same man that Liggett claimed in his affidavit was the killer. BB told the sketch artist that the man she (BB) observed was:

• A white male
• Age 20
• Had Brown Curly Hair,
• Medium build

Find attached and marked as Exhibit 103 the unredacted "Facial Identification Reference Sheet" (filed as confidential) that contains the description that BB provided to the sketch artist. Also, find attached a copy of the sketch that Taylor D. Bryant produced from BB’s description of the man she observed on the bridge, marked as Exhibit 104. This illustration is also called "sketch #2" (because it was released to the public second). Upon looking at the sketch, BB told the sketch artist that the illustration was a "10 out of 10" for accuracy.

The Unified Command did not release the BB sketch to the public for over two years. Instead, they first released the SC sketch, also called "sketch #1" (because it was released to the public first). The SC sketch was illustrated by FBI sketch artist "Plantz" from Detroit on June 19, 2017, and released to the public on July 17, 2017. Who was the person that SC was describing in her sketch? According to Liggett's affidavit, at approximately 3:57 pm, SC observed a man walking westbound on county road 300 north. SC was headed eastbound on county road 300 N, operating her motor vehicle while simultaneously observing this man walking on the road toward her on the opposite side of the road. This is the same man that SC described for the sketch artist on June 19, 2017. <snip>

Roughly two years later, in March 2019, BB met with Tony Liggett, frustrated that her sketch (sketch #2) had not been released to the public. BB was frustrated because sketch #1, which had been released to the public almost two years before, did not match the man that she (BB) observed on the high bridge. BB even commented that sketch #1 was "wrong." <snip>

During her March 7, 2017, interview, BB was talking with two members of Unified Command: Kevin Hammond and Tony Liggett At this interview, BB told Liggett, face-to-face, that the man she (BB) observed on the high bridge fit the following description:

-The man was slender and youthful looking.

-He was more "boyish" looking.

-The man was in his 20s to early 30s.

-His hair seemed "poofy" just as the sketch portrayed.

-He had no facial hair, that she can remember.

Finally, on April 22, 2019, Unified Command released BB’s sketch #2 to the general public. In fact, upon its release, Superintendent Doug Carter commented that the man in BB’s sketch #2 was "responsible for the murders " Also, at the time of the release of sketch #2, Doug Carter also stated that sketch #1 had now become "secondary" to the investigation.” (page 105-108; 115-117)

All from my understanding of the documents sourced below. Please let me know if I missed something so I can add to my notes!

SOURCES:

Delphi murders: State wants to keep widely circulated composite sketches out of trial​

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-state-wants-to-keep-widely-circulated-composite-sketches-out-of-trial/

PCA p. 4

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

page 105-108; 115-117
https://www.scribd.com/document/672126677/DELPHI-Memorandum-in-Support-of-Motion-

Exhibits cited:

144 Blair's 10 out of 10 comment is memorialized in a report identified as "Incident No. 17-0091-S03. This 10 out of 10 wording can be found in the second full paragraph. Find attached the unredacted report marked as Exhibit 105.

145 Find attached a screenshot from WTHR news (Indianapolis) showing the release of sketch #1, Exhibit 106

146 See exhibit 105 (Incident No. 17-0091-S03) last sentence of second paragraph.

147 Find attached a flash drive containing BB’s March 7, 2019, interview with Tony Liggett, marked as Exhibit 107. BB states that sketch #1 with the "golf hat" is "wrong" at the 11:37:55 mark.

148 Liggett's affidavit, marked as Exhibit 108, and also Exhibit 107 at the 11:42:10 mark.

149 Liggett's Affidavit for Search Warrant.

150 Exhibit 107 at the 11:42:10 mark.

151 Find attached Doug Carters' April 22, 2019, press conference in which BB’s sketch #2 is unveiled to the public. It is marked as Exhibit 109.

152 The fact that SC’s sketch #1 had become secondary to the investigation is confusing, considering Liggett's and Holeman's claim that sketch #1 and sketch #2 are the same person.

 

[Seattle1]

Remember Supt Doug Carter? I always think of this video & updated sketch when I think of this case: May 15, 2019

Video Witness in Delphi double murder likely afraid, investigator says

Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter told "GMA" investigators are "one tip away from success" in solving the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German.

abcnews.go.com

 

[girlhasnoname]

Remember Supt Doug Carter? I always think of this video & updated sketch when I think of this case: May 15, 2019

Video Witness in Delphi double murder likely afraid, investigator says

Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter told "GMA" investigators are "one tip away from success" in solving the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German.

abcnews.go.com

Thanks for bringing that forward @Seattle1, DC says they know much more than the perpetrator thinks and that they are waiting on just "one tip" to connect to that person.

We may all be surprised at what information the State has and how long they've had it.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I personally think if it's a hung jury he'll get bail with home arrest and electronic ankle bracelet. MO

No hung jury IMO, but I thought Indiana was a Murder not being a bondable charge state? RA appears almost happy & healthy in his latest mug shot, and 10+ years younger, except for those dead shark eyes.

I can see how BB might have thought RA looked younger from a distance of 50 feet.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Day Four #Justice4Abby&Libby​

 

[Seattle1]

152 The fact that Sarah Carbaugh's sketch #1 had become secondary to the investigation is confusing, considering Liggett's and Holeman's claim that sketch #1 and sketch #2 are the same person.

^^rsbm

IMO, this debacle with the sketches was one of the biggest disservices done to this investigation. To this date, it makes no sense to me how this was handled. Why ISP could not say Sketch #1 was an error, we have a news on a new suspect -- see Sketch #2, is beyond me...

https://fox59.com/news/indycrime/in...-released-new-sketch-in-delphi-investigation/