Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #205

[MiniMoo]

The witness is a ballistics expert. The judge wouldn't allow the metallurgist to testify. He absolutely does not believe in the "science" of took marks.
Yes, RA was in the NG and his wife said he always kept his hair short.
MOO
Musings on his escape? Interesting.

Am sure hoping the ballistics expert for the Defense has photos or videos as it seems the expert for the State had nothing to show and that may have not gone down so well.

I would think images or videos would demonstrate what was done to determine certain findings and provide visual comparisons and proof.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[Vern]

IMO he's talking about the private drive without saying it.
[snip]
"The session ended with two questions from the jury. The first question asked if there was a way bridge to get where the girls were without crossing the bridge, and Holeman answered, “There’s an unapproved way.” Ultimately, Holeman said everyone was on the bridge."

Delphi Murders trial: Day 8 live blog

The trial of Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen continues Saturday. Follow WISH-TV's live blog for updates.

www.wishtv.com

Oddly though, by the actual evidence presented both of the girls crossed the bridge ... as did BG who was caught on video coming up behind them on the bridge.

Down the hill.

 

[joe jones]

Yes because the stated timeline is central to their case, the reason why we are in court.

And it’s the one that has to be proven.

The state needs to prove it and so far, changes or not, they have failed to do this imo. Even worse, state witnesses have not only not evidenced the states timeline their testimony contradicts it.

The state has a big problem here.

JMO

Agree, it is not his timeline that the jury will need to focus on it's the states, they have to prove he was where they say he was for him to have had time to commit the crime, and as you say the witnesses are not helping,
And I still think one person alone could not have done all that needed doing, IMO

 

[Deleted member 296739]

If it was a frame job, it sure took a heckuva long time to come to fruition.

Perhaps he was part of something or involved in something and at the beginning his file was purposefully “lost” and interviews deleted and “mistakes” were made to keep something out of the investigation (for whatever reason, to keep RA from disclosing some or to give time to delete video and loose notes and RA didn’t do it or because he did or who knows…)

and then later when his file was found he was railroaded and framed or evidence of his guilt came to light

Or none of the above… but still stuck on the fact that they asked for folks to come forward, RA came forward- acted within the bounds of just being an innocent bystander giving information and a witness statement and then the detectives never followed up, his file remained mislabeled, it was marked cleared, buried in mountains of evidence (which would not have existed at the very beginning AND the most critical interviews at the earliest stages of the investigation were lost and witnesses have changed their stories…

All of that is independent of the other circumstantial evidence of RA’s guilt or not -

Just all feels off - in my opinion- hence my noncommittal on guilty/ not guilty since at this point I personally don’t have enough info for BARD given what’s been introduced at trial so far

And nope, I don’t have an explanation for the information that we do have, I don’t watch/listen to YT or podcasters about cases, but in my opinion there’s a lot more going on and I don’t know if RA is BG and if BG was a witness or accomplice or killer - all my own thoughts

 

[Jade]

Why? I think the State's timeline works out exactly to the information RA himself gave about being on the trails from 1:30 to 3:30. These are approximate times not down to the exact minute and seconds and testified to by witnesses and video.

MOO

Exactly.

A loner sexual deviant planned and committed a solitary murder of two girls leaving no living direct witnesses, the deviant a pharmacy tech trained in biological controls and sanitation habits, the state had a problem from day 1 from the miscreant.

That the state even has to deal with the pervert is the problem not their case.

Simplest explanations are closest to the truth.

Simple crimes are easier to carry out.

Simple pharmacy worker at cvs on his day off takes a gun, scares two girls down the hill, plays out his fantasies like the plethora of perverts just like him who trade their lives for a few minutes of perversion, thinks he’s clever and inserts himself, almost got away with it but for his hubris.

All imo

 

[Vern]

We shall see. As good old Andy likes to say, "We’ll just have to take your word for it then."

The juror’s shall decide, regardless of my opinions.

The State's timeline has digital evidence to back it up.

Photos with DTG and location data by the the juvenile girls,
BB's statement and Fitbit data,
The snapchat photo,
The down the hill video,
The Mears' Farm video footage.

All is well with the timeline.

RA is still on that bridge.

 

[smamda]

And he advised his wife to get a lawyer but not himself. Very odd.

Right?! My thought is at that time, he was still trying to give his wife a vibe that this was all a mistake and they'll be going home soon... Maybe he just wanted her out of there due to shame, so suggested a lawyer so she could leave and not be with him there. Perhaps her presence was making him even more UNcomfortable than at ease? JMO would love more thoughts on this!

 

[INfisherman]

Am sure hoping the ballistics expert for the Defense has photos or videos as it seems the expert for the State had nothing to show and that may have not gone down so well.

I would think images or videos would demonstrate what was done to determine certain findings and provide visual comparisons and proof.

JMO MOO JMT

BBM

Respectfully,

"Oberg displayed images showing “areas of agreement” in marks. Her testimony included various photos of Allen’s gun, the marks in question and the gun’s ejector and extractor."

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-forensic-firearms-examiner-discusses-toolmark-methodology-unspent-bullet-evidence/

 

[joe jones]

The State's timeline has digital evidence to back it up.

Photos with DTG and location data by the the juvenile girls,
BB's statement and Fitbit data,
The snapchat photo,
The down the hill video,
The Mears' Farm video footage.

All is well with the timeline.

RA is still on that bridge.

Bridge guy is on the bridge, not one person who saw BG has done an in court identification that it was RA, neither have the state proven BG was the murderer, neither have they proven RA is BG
So they have lots of work yet to do, as jury cannot just assume RA is BG the state has to prove it, and they have to prove BG did the murders,
So for me they have to move the needle to prove RA is BG first, the confessions and ballistic evidence for me is nothing if they can't prove RA is BG

 

[ClearAhead]

Right?! My thought is at that time, he was still trying to give his wife a vibe that this was all a mistake and they'll be going home soon... Maybe he just wanted her out of there due to shame, so suggested a lawyer so she could leave and not be with him there. Perhaps her presence was making him even more UNcomfortable than at ease? JMO would love more thoughts on this!

It seems to me as if it’s a highly unusual arrangement, not sure what to make of it. Especially if sat quietly throughout the entire time without interjecting or defending him, that would take a huge amount of self control. It does makes me wonder if her presence forced him to stick with whatever he told her previously regarding that day. MOO

 

[smamda]

New friends, thanks for caring and keeping up with this case as much as I am! I believe the thought-provoking posts here have made me consider the evidence in this trial more clearly (including just not factoring some evidence into my opinion at all). I'm sure most of you have been invested in justice for these sweet baby angels since 2017, like me!
Still waiting for the confessions plus environment in which they were generated. Still waiting for more details on how many other possibilities were seriously considered and ruled out by LE. And of course, dont forget we are all still waiting on the Defense's entire case and closing statements. So much more to come.

 

[Bbgiraffe]

Perhaps he was part of something or involved in something and at the beginning his file was purposefully “lost” and interviews deleted and “mistakes” were made to keep something out of the investigation (for whatever reason, to keep RA from disclosing some or to give time to delete video and loose notes and RA didn’t do it or because he did or who knows…)

and then later when his file was found he was railroaded and framed or evidence of his guilt came to light

Or none of the above… but still stuck on the fact that they asked for folks to come forward, RA came forward- acted within the bounds of just being an innocent bystander giving information and a witness statement and then the detectives never followed up, his file remained mislabeled, it was marked cleared, buried in mountains of evidence (which would not have existed at the very beginning AND the most critical interviews at the earliest stages of the investigation were lost and witnesses have changed their stories…

All of that is independent of the other circumstantial evidence of RA’s guilt or not -

Just all feels off - in my opinion- hence my noncommittal on guilty/ not guilty since at this point I personally don’t have enough info for BARD given what’s been introduced at trial so far

And nope, I don’t have an explanation for the information that we do have, I don’t watch/listen to YT or podcasters about cases, but in my opinion there’s a lot more going on and I don’t know if RA is BG and if BG was a witness or accomplice or killer - all my own thoughts

If only they did follow up they could have figured out his story didn't match if his phone wasn't on the tower dump and this would have been over within days. You know, because if he wasn't looking at stocks on his phone what was he doing and why did he lie about that. Now THAT would probably be a fun interrogation to watch such a shame it didn't go down like that.

 

[WildHuncher]

Bridge guy is on the bridge, not one person who saw BG has done an in court identification that it was RA, neither have the state proven BG was the murderer, neither have they proven RA is BG
So they have lots of work yet to do, as jury cannot just assume RA is BG the state has to prove it, and they have to prove BG did the murders,
So for me they have to move the needle to prove RA is BG first, the confessions and ballistic evidence for me is nothing if they can't prove RA is BG

RA put himself on the bridge. On the trail, checking stock tickers. On the bridge, watching fish.

No he hasn’t been on the stand himself. But that was the story he gave LE and the jury has heard it.

He is indeed on the bridge.

 

[Vern]

Bridge guy is on the bridge, not one person who saw BG has done an in court identification that it was RA, neither have the state proven BG was the murderer, neither have they proven RA is BG
So they have lots of work yet to do, as jury cannot just assume RA is BG the state has to prove it, and they have to prove BG did the murders,
So for me they have to move the needle to prove RA is BG first, the confessions and ballistic evidence for me is nothing if they can't prove RA is BG

Respectfully, RA put himself on that bridge at the date and time. No need for the jury to assume anything IMO.

 

[joe jones]

One thing I have always wondered is why when somebody asks for a lawyer do they not put suspect in cell and get a lawyer and then question them with a lawyer present, even if they choose to not answer questions LE still get to ask
In England you can have your solicitor (lawyer) when being questioned and they will ask questions and show suspect evidence even if they are refusing to answer "no comment" is the answer most give,
and all interrogations are recorded, nothing off the record, and one more question are there time limits in how long you can keep a suspect in police custody before they must be either charged or released? or as in England they have to go to magistrate (judge) to ask for more time

 

[ClearAhead]

Bridge guy is on the bridge, not one person who saw BG has done an in court identification that it was RA, neither have the state proven BG was the murderer, neither have they proven RA is BG
So they have lots of work yet to do, as jury cannot just assume RA is BG the state has to prove it, and they have to prove BG did the murders,
So for me they have to move the needle to prove RA is BG first, the confessions and ballistic evidence for me is nothing if they can't prove RA is BG

The P could hardly display a 5x8’ photo of RA taken in 2017, asking each witness on the stand if that’s who they saw. That would never happen, it was the BG photo from Libby’s cellphone, not a wanted poster of RA, that prompted the witnesses to contact LE. At the time they didn’t know RA had placed himself on the bridge. They didn’t know their sightings collaborated with his statement to incriminate him.

We can’t change what LE has to work with and maybe there will never be the sort of indisputable proof that you might expect but that doesn’t mean a jury can’t draw conclusions from what they’ve been presented with. It’s not over yet. MOO

 

[INfisherman]

One thing I have always wondered is why when somebody asks for a lawyer do they not put suspect in cell and get a lawyer and then question them with a lawyer present, even if they choose to not answer questions LE still get to ask
In England you can have your solicitor (lawyer) when being questioned and they will ask questions and show suspect evidence even if they are refusing to answer "no comment" is the answer most give,
and all interrogations are recorded, nothing off the record, and one more question are there time limits in how long you can keep a suspect in police custody before they must be either charged or released? or as in England they have to go to magistrate (judge) to ask for more time

Not all LE offices have holding cells.

ETA LEO to LE

 

[joe jones]

Respectfully, RA put himself on that bridge at the date and time. No need for the jury to assume anything IMO.

Only on it up to watch fish, then he says he left, so state has to prove he didn't leave, and so far IMO they haven't
I can't wait till they play the interrogation, it hopefully will clear up what he did say about which route he took to trails, as it is a huge factor in states timeline that his car was caught on video

 

[Knitty]

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[TristanP]

The State's timeline has digital evidence to back it up.

Photos with DTG and location data by the the juvenile girls,
BB's statement and Fitbit data,
The snapchat photo,
The down the hill video,
The Mears' Farm video footage.

All is well with the timeline.

RA is still on that bridge.

BG is still on that bridge.

They have yet to prove RA was on it.