Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #205

[shonyakay]

I just wanted to point something out here that a lawyer pointed out to me... just because LE did not locate the phone that RA had on him when he was at the bridge that day does not mean that RA does not have it. He is not required to provide it to them. You'd think that if there had been anything worrisome on it though he wouldn't have handed it to Mr. Dullin when they met in the parking lot imo. I don't find it all that weird that LE didn't find the device - perhaps they missed it or perhaps RA lost it or traded it in or whatever. Its really not that odd so much as unfortunate if he doesn't still have access to it and it could have potentially helped clear him. MOOOO.

Maybe Dulin asked for RA's phone to get that information. RA couldn't have refused without looking suspicious imo. Dulin already thought it was a red flag that RA didn't want to meet at his (RA's) home or the police station.

 

[flashy09]

Will the second hand confessions be allowed in the trial? Like the inmate that heard RA say he used a boxcutter and threw it away at the CVS dumpster?

 

[Cedars]

I’m not as sure LE knows, and everything brought up at trial by the P is presented in the way that makes RA look as guilty as possible because that’s their job - but only my opinion

And it's the job of the defense to show he got rid of lots of his phones.

JMO

 

[EllaMinnowP]

I just wanted to point something out here that a lawyer pointed out to me... just because LE did not locate the phone that RA had on him when he was at the bridge that day does not mean that RA does not have it. He is not required to provide it to them. You'd think that if there had been anything worrisome on it though he wouldn't have handed it to Mr. Dullin when they met in the parking lot imo. I don't find it all that weird that LE didn't find the device - perhaps they missed it or perhaps RA lost it or traded it in or whatever. Its really not that odd so much as unfortunate if he doesn't still have access to it and it could have potentially helped clear him. MOOOO.

Why would he have it, and not want to turn it over, especially if it could prove exculpatory by corroborating his earlier-than-first-remembered departure from what later in the day became a crime scene? If he knows the whereabouts, yet elected not to share, I shudder to think what he doesn’t want seen. It’s at least odd, imo.

That he simply got rid of the phone when it was time for a new one, is a tough pill for me to swallow, given everything that had happened already.

I appreciate reading everyone’s opinions, and it’s nice when members share what has helped them to either form/ solidify their opinions.

My opinion on this particular facet is that it IS weird that his phone from the relevant time period cannot be discovered. If he’s innocent of this crime, it REALLY is too bad!

I am trying to put aside my frustration with the investigation and any misgivings I have about actors on either side of the legal representation, my feelings about the imprisonment, and everything else that may have biased my view. This trial is unique to me because it’s the first one that I’ve watched where I question the guilt of the defendant. I’ve seen some that I worried what the jury would decide, but I had no doubt about the guilt of the accused. I do want the real truth of whether RA murdered Abby & Libby.
Guilty vs Not Guilty verdict, and appeals process aside, I personally want to be convinced by the evidence to the point of being comfortable with believing it’s RA. I’m feeling less sure of him as an innocent bystander at this time.

Just my humble opinion, and thanks for sharing your opinion with me.

 

[Cota332]

This is specifically to prevent police from convicting innocent people.

JMO

RSBM

I stand corrected! lol thank you

 

[Deleted member 296739]

And it's the job of the defense to show he got rid of lots of his phones.

JMO

I’m not sure that’s the job of the defense- but IANAL-

I was commenting on OP saying that only one thing was missing- and the fact that I don’t know that at all- no clue what all he got rid of and or what if any explanation for the missing phone is -

I’m guessing he destroyed it/got rid of it in 2022 after the second interview and said something like I was going to give you my phone but… and maybe there will be an explanation as to how and why - but I don’t know- hasn’t been publicly addressed yet I don’t think - but just my own thoughts- I don’t know what happened-

but the trial isn’t over, so I do know that more information and evidence is yet to come - so maybe many of the unknowns will become known in time-

 

[sunshineray]

Have we had evidence to support this? I know you used the word "may" so I'm just seeking clarification is all. Ty in advance. Not moo - asking a question.

I don't believe that testimony has happened yet?

 

[statt#1]

Hopefully RA's own words will make clear and confirm a lot things. We may finally get to hear, via MM and others, what RA has to say, in depth, this week!

I try to imagine the jury deliberation in this case. We have the lack of direct evidence that BG is RA, no clear photo of him on that bridge. We have the lack of direct evidence that BG murdered the girls, no DNA, and no witnesses to that fact. We have what some will say is questionable science in terms of the bullet identification. We have some discrepancy in witness accounts of what BG was wearing, his height, his vehicle, etc.

Yet we have RA's own words saying he was on that bridge. Is that not direct evidence? We have RA saying he saw those three girls. And soon it appears we'll hear RA admitting in his own words that he killed these two girls, how he did it, why he did it, and some little tidbit of information he revealed in his own words that only the killer would know. Is that too not direct evidence? We have him in his own words describing his attire of that day, which seems to match eyewitness accounts. Is that not direct evidence?

I'd imagine some jurors will take his words, his admission of guilt, as fact...others may think they were coerced, or given under some sort of duress. I think right here is where the rubber will meet the road in terms of guilt or lack thereof. If the jurors are, or can be convinced, that his admissions of guilt in phone conversation and/or elsewhere are sincere, it will be hard to ignore. Assuming he did reveal a fact unknown to the public about the crime scene, unless one thinks he fabricated the fact, on a wild guess, came up with a tidbit of information about the crime scene that only LE investigators would know, or somehow was clued in to that fact, where does the doubt come in from that fact?

One thing I strongly feel is difficult for all who are interested in this trial is the fact we only have bits and pieces of what's going on in that courtroom, I just think a lot of testimony is missing from what is currently the public record.

Another bothersome thing for me, personally, having followed this case from the early days, is that a killer may be set free. You see, there is simply no other person that I'm aware of that can be, or ever was, named as the person suspected of being on that bridge on that day at that time. Lots of ideas, persons of interest, and speculation bantered about ad nauseum, lots of finger pointing, lots of discussion relative to investigative blunders, but for sure, in my opinion, had any REAL evidence come to light that pointed to someone other than RA being BG, we would have heard about it.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I don't believe that testimony has happened yet?

For the record the gag order, no streaming for the trial and strange leaks/theories in the case along the way are really frustrating- I hate that the girls are getting lost in the middle and the poor families have been through so much over the past 7.5 years without closure or a conviction… moo

 

[sunshineray]

I’m not as sure LE knows, and everything brought up at trial by the P is presented in the way that makes RA look as guilty as possible because that’s their job - but only my opinion

To me it's not so important if RA got rid of that phone, curious yes. What I think is very important is if his phone doesn't show up as connecting to the tower or any surrounding wifi showing him at the trails area that day because RA said he was there and using his phone. MO

 

[Boxer]

That was my question earlier- if they would have to disclose it if they planned to use it? But not disclose just that they had it …

Hmm. Good question. If it was exonerating they would use it, if it is not and they are hiding it then they are interfering with an investigation and possibly abettiing a double murder.

The Ds B&R are not the FBI with it's deep electronic investigative capacity so they would not know what is contained deep within the phone, the related apps (Yellow for example), cloud and tower.

 

[raja]

Playing devil’s advocate again. I have a bunch of my family’s old phones but I don’t have my last one or two because I got money back from Apple towards my new phone when I returned the old one to them in the mailer they sent with the new one. I do hope the P has checked on this just in case. Surely there would be records of this one way or the other.

 

[MassGuy]

Playing devil’s advocate again. I have a bunch of my family’s old phones but I don’t have my last one or two because I got money back from Apple towards my new phone when I returned the old one to them in the mailer they sent with the new one. I do hope the P has checked on this just in case. Surely there would be records of this one way or the other.

That’s the thing. If he traded it in, that’s one thing. If he said “I don’t know,” well that’s just not believable.

His phone company should be able to provide information that shows exactly when the device changed.

So I’m interested in the timing of that, as well as what ultimately happened to it.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

To me it's not so important if RA got rid of that phone, curious yes. What I think is very important is if his phone doesn't show up as connecting to the tower or any surrounding wifi showing him at the trails area that day because RA said he was there and using his phone. MO

Agreed- I’d want to know if that phone pinged the tower if he was using it- it had to be connected to something… moo

 

[AliceSprings]

This article states that Abby & Libby were wrapped “in clean white sheets”. It is not clear if that is something the detectives did after their bodies were found or if the girls were discovered that way. It is also said Libby was nude and Abby was in Libby’s clothes, so it’s hard to tell if that was under white sheets or if the sheets were added after they were found.
Does anyone know when the white sheets came in? This is reminiscent of another crime scene I am aware of.

Gasps and tears as graphic images of Abby and Libby are shown to jurors at Delphi trial

Graphic images from the crime scene were shown to the public for the first time as the third day of testimony in the Delphi case wrapped up.

eu.jconline.com

 

[MassGuy]

Agreed- I’d want to know if that phone pinged the tower if he was using it- it had to be connected to something… moo

I've always assumed this to be a lie, and he didn't have his phone on him that day. No one's watching fish. No one is walking along outside looking at stocks that update every several seconds. Richard Allen is not a day trader.

 

[sunshineray]

For the record the gag order, no streaming for the trial and strange leaks/theories in the case along the way are really frustrating- I hate that the girls are getting lost in the middle and the poor families have been through so much over the past 7.5 years without closure or a conviction… moo

Sweet darling girls, Abigail and Liberty <3

 

[Boxer]

Will the second hand confessions be allowed in the trial? Like the inmate that heard RA say he used a boxcutter and threw it away at the CVS dumpster?

I have not heard of this inmate statement, where can I see it. Trash is indexed at landfills.
It seems worthwhile to try and find the box cutter.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I've always assumed this to be a lie, and he didn't have his phone on him that day. No one's watching fish. No one is walking along outside looking at stocks that update every several seconds. Richard Allen is not a day trader.

I would not assume those things to be true either,

—do I know BARD them to be false - not at the moment

Do I think that they are profoundly unlikely- yes, absolutely- moo

 

[Warwick7]

Out of curiosity, do we know if the LE used a metal detector to sweep the crime scene area where the kids bodies were found? I know the bullet was NOT found by use of a metal detector per testimony last week - just curious if one was used or not at all. Ty. Not moo - an actual question.

"He said investigators searched the scene with metal detectors and recalled a dive team conducting another search."

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-day-3-of-testimony-includes-graphic-crime-scene-photos/