Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #205

[iamshadow21]

Not speaking on Richard Allen’s guilt or innocence I am now 100% convinced in my mind that there was more than one killer.

Libby was listed at 200 pounds on her autopsy, Richard Allen was 5’4 and while in decent shape it would be impossible for him to drag 200 pounds of dead weight 20 feet.

This is the weight of a large front loading washing machine for reference.

That along with the two different manners of death (one a brutal cut that had people describe it as close to decapitation, and one with a one inch deep cut on her neck about 4 inches long) tells me that there is no way this was one person acting alone.

JMO

We know the site had a steep slope. It would be far easier to drag a heavy object down a slope, where gravity is on your side.

I've moved a washing machine on my own, and I am not an athletic person in any way.

We see cases on here where people move a body on their own every day, and there have been many times there's a size difference, with the victim being larger. The Johnson case is a good current example of a smaller woman killing her larger husband and moving him without assistance.

MOO

 

[Spartygirl]

I highly doubt the FBI would recover evidence that a suspect in the double homicide of two young teenage girls was involved in CSAM and not let the state use it in its prosecution due to an ongoing investigation but that’s JMO

Right !?!?!?

We don't know for sure but it is a possibility

But that's JMO

 

[shonyakay]

Let’s head this off and clarify that he believes she was moved a whole 20 feet.

JMO

He testified at the 3 day hearings Libby was moved 7 to 8 feet.
It is in the transcript.

 

[arielilane]

It's a good thing.

Your reporting has been great, thank you. Did you ever see a jury question as to what they would need for a conviction? I thought I saw that in passing and didn't make a note of their answers.

No, I haven't.

 

[m00c0w]

Uh. I'm female, 5'2", not in great shape, and I have dragged a box containing a 200 lb exercise bike (just went and checked the weight) from the front of my house along the sidewalk to my backyard, which was 30 feet. No doily, no ropes. Just two dinky handholds precut in the sides of the box. Honestly, it would have been easier for me to drag a dead body because it would be easier to grab and pull on wrists than it was to maintain a grip on that box.

Yeah, a washing machine is a pretty bad example because of how the weight is distributed and how it’s all in one cubic small area. The weight being spread out over 4-5 feet allows you to partially pick up the person and reduce surface area causing friction with the ground, while still not carrying the entire 200lbs. The angle formed by the body being lifted from the ground also makes it much easier to clear obstacles.

JMO

 

[arielilane]

Indiana Jury Rules

rules.incourts.gov

 

[ClearAhead]

Thank you for finding the source! I guess I'll just assume that LE speculated (for whatever reason or maybe it was just a guess) the killer used a backpack (or the like) to dispose of evidence after the murders.

IIRC something about if anyone had noticed a hitch-hiker passing through….another nothing burger.

 

[fred&edna]

Maybe RA knew how to do this...

 

[m00c0w]

He testified at the 3 day hearings Libby was moved 7 to 8 feet.
It is in the transcript.

Thanks, I was just reporting what was said upthread from today’s testimony.

 

[photographer4]

While it was winter, it was an unseasonably warm on February 13, 2017 reaching a temperature of 43 Fahrenheit by 1:59 pm and overnight it never dipped beneath freezing. The following day, the 14th, when the bodies and clothing articles were found, temperatures were even warmer by several degrees.
Weather in February 2017 in Delphi, Indiana, USA

While the cooler temperatures meant DNA could potentially have survived longer than on a summer day, it appears, based on testimony that did not happen in this case.

Q: Did le take the temp of the water in the area where the clothing was found? I'd have been interested to know that. Ty. Not moo. Its an actual question. Ty

 

[arielilane]

The only witness Monday morning was Stacy Bozinovski. She has worked as a DNA analyst for the Indiana State Police for 18 years. She started the morning by explaining what DNA is and giving examples.

Delphi Murder Trial Day 9: What DNA evidence did investigators find?

It's day nine of the Delphi double homicide trial for suspect Richard Allen.

www.wthitv.com

 

[Web_Sleuth]

Abby….in theory IF she was unconscious - what kinds of things could make her unconscious but not be detected (assuming nothing was found in her body). Her arms in her sleeves up in a fighting position is what I heard…also that small mark on her chin with no sticky residue….

 

[Damarna]

I have no idea I’ve never been hunting but I’m sure there’s someone here that could help us with this answer.

Totally doable. I've gotten 1 deer and drug it alone 40 yards. Granted, he was only 170 lbs. As a woman it was a bit difficult being slightly up an incline in one very short area. The rest was pretty much even, grassy terrain which helped. Trust me, it wasnt a world record speed!

 

[MassGuy]

Her feet/could have been tied imo

I've a always thought the clothes swap between the girls happened while they were alive and made to change their clothes by themselves imo. Imo I have thought the girls were attached in some way. Either by cuffs, zip ties or rope. Hands or legs. Imo He kept them calm by telling them they would not be hurt if they do what he says. Once the change of clothes occurred, they were reattaced and Abby was either killed or knocked unconscious, making it hard for Libby to run or get very far.
These are just opinions, I certainly could be wrong. Full disclosure I have not kept up with this case in a while. I started back up a few days into the trial. So come for me

Restraints would make Abby's condition make a lot more sense (no blood on hands), but there was no evidence of that on the bodies. Normally there are telltale marks (just from what I've seen on past cases on here), or residue and marks in the case of duct tape.

I don't believe they were tied together at the time this occurred, because Libby's body was initially like 20 feet from Abby's. I think she likely attempted to flee once the attack began.

Logically it makes sense to me that Abby was attacked first. She suffered fewer stab wounds, and it appears that Libby suffered a more extensive attack (perhaps indicating he had more time). I also think Abby would be killed first because she was the biggest threat of escape based on her smaller build.

 

[shonyakay]

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/allenciceroaug1-pdf.530077/

 

[photographer4]

Abby….in theory IF she was unconscious - what kinds of things could make her unconscious but not be detected (assuming nothing was found in her body). Her arms in her sleeves up in a fighting position is what I heard…also that small mark on her chin with no sticky residue….

Did LE do a tox screen? If so, has that been testified to as yet? Ty in advance. Not moo that is a question.

 

[BUF]

As far as Abby maybe being restrained somehow….the ME testified about a mark around her mouth where no adhesives were found.

I had thought that maybe he came up from behind her and put his hand over her mouth, maybe enough where she passed out.

 

[ClearAhead]

Not speaking on Richard Allen’s guilt or innocence I am now 100% convinced in my mind that there was more than one killer.

Libby was listed at 200 pounds on her autopsy, Richard Allen was 5’4 and while in decent shape it would be impossible for him to drag 200 pounds of dead weight 20 feet.

This is the weight of a large front loading washing machine for reference.

That along with the two different manners of death (one a brutal cut that had people describe it as close to decapitation, and one with a one inch deep cut on her neck about 4 inches long) tells me that there is no way this was one person acting alone.

JMO

Was it said if It’s it’s believed Libby was drug downhill, uphill or on flat ground? It would make a difference before determining if it was possible.

 

[Arkay]

Different people are going to have different opinions on what the evidence shows that is why I am only looking at the MSM coverage of this. No youtubers. It is difficult to tell what is their opinion and what was actually shown because we don't have audio to hear ourselves. Even court transcripts leave out a lot of nuance that can be interpreted in different ways by different people.

Agree.

Anyone can create a YouTube channel so I ignore those completely. I’m also not into more reputable podcasters, such as MS and GH, because I don’t have the patience. I much prefer reading news by trained journalists, particularly when it comes to investigative journalism.

Side note…..apologies, I’ve spent the last two days in a casino and will never catch up, so I’m reading every other page.

I send likes and loves to all the terrific posts I won’t be able to read.

 

[MassGuy]

Did LE do a tox screen? If so, has that been testified to as yet? Ty in advance. Not moo that is a question.

It's a standard part of the autopsy, but don'ts appear to have been come up yet.