Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #205

[Arkay]

Blood spatter expert Major Pat Cicero testified Libby likely cried after sustaining wounds this her neck. He noted a streak of moisture and blood running from the corner of her eye to her ear.

Oh, @Yemelyan, what a painfully bitter detail!

If it wasn’t real before…

My heart. She must have just seen her best friend getting slaughtered, and then the monster got to her...

Justice for Abby and Libby

I had the exact same reaction, @SouthEnd—— my heart!

We never knew these two young girls and yet we find this so unbearable. Of course I think of my own girls in my own family and I cannot fathom the pain of the German and Williams families.


Justice for you, Abby! Justice for you, Libby!

Peace and restoration for your families!

JMO

 

[SouthEnd]

He could have ejaculated inside them while wearing a condom and left no trace.

RSBM

I have seen cases in which the lube that condoms come in, is left behind and was detected... MOO the SA was interrupted.

 

[MiniMoo]

If Abby's shoes had Libby's blood on them does it mean she was wearing them at the time of Libby's death or were they placed on her (one anyway) afterwards.

Is anyone able to clarify for me that there was blood on Abby's shoes at all? If so, where?

AAQ = Asking A Question.

 

[TristanP]

When the ME testified, was the information given as to how much blood remained in their bodies?

 

[New Penny]

The fact that Abby never moved makes me lean into a terrible theory I had.

My read of the killer is that he got cold feet, that he spooked. I think... that while SAing and controlling young girls was his fantasy the reality became extremely stressful.

I think that after he got them to cross the creek and undress, Abby might have said something like, I'm not feeling well, I'm too cold, and that broke his fantasy. He let her get dressed up, maybe he forced Libby to help her and promised to let her go. And then as Abby is shivering, hands inside her hoodie, maybe she passes out. Or maybe he realises that it is too late. They have seen him. Maybe he hears a car passing, at the service road.

I think that's when he attacks Abby, maybe because she is already passed out and makes her even more vulnerable, or the attack and sheer terror makes her pass out. And then the frenzied attack to Libby...

I'm so sorry for dramatising. It's the scenario that makes most sense to me.

All MOO

I have thought all along that at some point one of the girls blurts our “you’re the CVS guy!” At that point any chance of letting them go was non existent.
MOO

 

[fred&edna]

Abby….in theory IF she was unconscious - what kinds of things could make her unconscious but not be detected (assuming nothing was found in her body). Her arms in her sleeves up in a fighting position is what I heard…also that small mark on her chin with no sticky residue….

Could shock cause unconsciousness??

 

[Spartygirl]

If Abby's shoes had Libby's blood on them does it mean she was wearing them at the time of Libby's death or were they placed on her (one anyway) afterwards.

Is anyone able to clarify for me that there was blood on Abby's shoes at all? If so, where?

AAQ = Asking A Question.

you would have to go back and read the CS testimony.

 

[photographer4]

Could shock cause unconsciousness??

I imagine that she could have had a vasovagal syncope (fainting) from fright (moo). This is where stress / fear cause the vagus nerve to contract and one faints due to sudden drop in blood pressure:
Vasovagal Syncope: Symptoms, Causes and Treatment

But I don't have any guesses on how long that might render one out cold for.

MOO

 

[Squirrel85]

We have no idea of knowing how many times he previously visited the area lookin for opportunity. As horrific as the acts were, it didn’t require a lot logistical pre-planning- place iPhone on airplane mode or whatever action needed to hide phone location and carrying of weapons, gun and boxcutter hidden away into pocket areas.

Airplane mode doesn't prevent someone from having their device location stopped. I put my phone in airplane mode and Google still knows which route the airplane had flown.

Battery Saver mode does mess with GPS and certain apps can't track the phone. I am unsure if battery saver mode would prevent the phone from PINGING off of cellular towers.

ETA: If someone took a photo, I am unsure if the location stamp would be there if the phone is in battery saver mode. The same if someone gets a text, phone call, or whatever.

 

[flashy09]

Uh oh——this is making me wonder if perhaps, being outdoors, he did in fact ejaculate, a bit removed from the girls, and covered it up sufficiently?

IMO there had to be a sexual component to this crime or they wouldn’t be unclothed, in whole or partially.

Still I remain grateful that at the least, he didn’t defile the girls’ actual bodies this way.

Not that that gives much solace, since of course they suffered and died in such a horrific fashion.

JMO and sorrowful speculation.

My MIL has been in town and I told her the quick gist of the case and as soon as she heard naked and dressed in the other girl's clothes, she said "what an awful kinky man." That's the heart of this case. Naked kids that end up murdered. I don't have much doubt they had to do some horrific things, even if DNA isn't involved.

 

[photographer4]

My MIL has been in town and I told her the quick gist of the case and as soon as she heard naked and dressed in the other girl's clothes, she said "what an awful kinky man." That's the heart of this case. Naked kids that end up murdered. I don't have much doubt they had to do some horrific things, even if DNA isn't involved.

I don't think we need to speculate on it really. Whatever happened was horrific for these poor kids! I'm not calling you out specifically so pls don't take it that way. moooo

 

[Squirrel85]

I doubt he took his jeans off, again all predicated on whether you believe state witness who testified about enough blood he looked like he had slaughtered an animal

Could rolling the jeans up prevent blood transfer in the vehicle?

 

[gremlin444]

If Abby's shoes had Libby's blood on them does it mean she was wearing them at the time of Libby's death or were they placed on her (one anyway) afterwards.

Is anyone able to clarify for me that there was blood on Abby's shoes at all? If so, where?

AAQ = Asking A Question.

I'm not seeing anything in today's various news reports about Abby's shoes, just Libby's shoe that was under Abby and Libby's shoe that was in the water. Can you post a link for where you saw it so I can refresh my memory?

Delphi Murders trial: Day 9 live blog

Follow the trial of Richard Allen, accused of the Delphi murders, as it continues in the Carroll County Courthouse. Stay updated with WISH-TV's live blog.

www.wishtv.com

"The prosecution shows Bozinovski a black Nike shoe that was found under Abby’s back. She tells the jury there is hair on the shoe, which could be from an animal. She tells the jury the blood on the shoe was partially Abby’s, but the rest of the blood needed more analysis.

She tells the jury the Nike shoe was heavily soiled, but contained no blood or seminal fluid. Only one swab had DNA and it was determined to be Abby’s."

 

[Squirrel85]

Not speaking on Richard Allen’s guilt or innocence I am now 100% convinced in my mind that there was more than one killer.

Libby was listed at 200 pounds on her autopsy, Richard Allen was 5’4 and while in decent shape it would be impossible for him to drag 200 pounds of dead weight 20 feet.

This is the weight of a large front loading washing machine for reference.

That along with the two different manners of death (one a brutal cut that had people describe it as close to decapitation, and one with a one inch deep cut on her neck about 4 inches long) tells me that there is no way this was one person acting alone.

JMO

I think the perp could have dragged Libby by himself... Adrenaline can make people strong because of increased blood flow and oxygen to the muscles.

I am 5'5" and 110 pounds, when my husband (5'2") weighed 145 pounds, I could drag him across a carpeted floor. I am not strong, skinny in a wiry sort of way.

 

[shonyakay]

I think she was very cold because of the water and the fear, and trying to warm up... MOO

This could be a possibility but that clothing was wet too. The pants were wet/damp when the bodies were found and there was a ring around the bottom of the sweatshirt. I think Libby was still in her clothes when they crossed the creek. I think they would have been too baggy for Abby to actually cross the creek in.

 

[arielilane]

@KaitlynReports

The state also wants to enter into evidence gmail search history from Richard Allen. The defense is objecting this.Judge Gull is taking it under advisement.


8:22 PM · Oct 28, 2024

 

[arielilane]

@KaitlynReports

Day 10 in #Delphi continues tomorrow at 9am.We know this week the jury should see the interrogation interviews Allen had with police.Also expected soon is testimony on the alleged 60+ confessions Allen made while behind bars.


8:24 PM · Oct 28, 2024

https://twitter.com/x/status/1851057361668206805

 

[Melted]

I can just imagine it goes something like this and this is all IMO so nobody come for me.. lol

RA: How tall is BG

Also RA let me change my fishing license..

That would be RA changing his height closer to what was being reported as the suspects height though….

 

[Squirrel85]

The fact that Abby never moved makes me lean into a terrible theory I had.

My read of the killer is that he got cold feet, that he spooked. I think... that while SAing and controlling young girls was his fantasy the reality became extremely stressful.

I think that after he got them to cross the creek and undress, Abby might have said something like, I'm not feeling well, I'm too cold, and that broke his fantasy. He let her get dressed up, maybe he forced Libby to help her and promised to let her go. And then as Abby is shivering, hands inside her hoodie, maybe she passes out. Or maybe he realises that it is too late. They have seen him. Maybe he hears a car passing, at the service road.

I think that's when he attacks Abby, maybe because she is already passed out and makes her even more vulnerable, or the attack and sheer terror makes her pass out. And then the frenzied attack to Libby...

I'm so sorry for dramatising. It's the scenario that makes most sense to me.

All MOO

Hypothermia and vasovagal syncope can cause a person to faint/pass out when they become too cold.

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1851060054788546990