CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #3

[iamafiusny]

Good question, maybe you can read my mind! They said they had no evidence of an abduction……so is that to indicate they do have evidence that the children “wandered away”?…even though apparently nothing such as personal items (ie boots, backpack) have been found yet?

While I know nothing is impossible and there have been very odd results to cases before we have to keep in mind there are two kids. That doubles the chances of being found, especially with the scent of a dirty diaper.

It doubles the chance of finding something. A bag, a boot, a spot the kids clearly sat down to rest. Of course they may have found these things and not said anything.

But you also can't ignore the statistics. Over 50% of missing children are found in 24 hours. Well over 90% are found in a week.

Everything about this is unusual.

Moo

 

[ttjo]

I just believe the police would have done everything possible to find 2 little kids. They have to assess accordingly and use resources appropriately and logically. That search was the best thing they could do, and Im sure all borders were notified. What else could they do given the limited info they had? no identifying vehicle info , no POI.

 

[ttjo]

I also remember them saying on the scanner they found a camera ( trail cam or some kind of camera) and were contacting the owner. Later someone called in saying they could call back to talk about any vehicles that drove by? Was that the owner of the trail cam? I dont know? but if they had a lead they would have followed it.
Is broadcastify airing the calls anymore? I know in my city the police shut down airing on broadcastify a couple years ago due to safety and privacy.

 

[Bigditch]

Good question, maybe you can read my mind! They said they had no evidence of an abduction……so is that to indicate they do have evidence that the children “wandered away”?…even though apparently nothing such as personal items (ie boots, backpack) have been found yet?

.

LE have repeatedly said there has been no evidence of abduction.

And yet,
I've not heard LE say, "No evidence of a kidnapping."

Legal definition between the two terms is confusing.

 

[ttjo]

And yet,
I've not heard LE say, "No evidence of a kidnapping." Legal definition between the two terms just confuses me more.

Im posting this cause I know everyone is going to go search it out, (I did ) lol

Child Kidnapping and Abduction

The terms kidnapping and abduction are sometimes used interchangeably but the Criminal Code treats them quite differently.

www.criminalcodehelp.ca

 

[Diddian]

Some have mentioned that no items belonging to the kids have been found - soiled diaper, boot, backpack, or the like. Those could be found whether the children are alive or have died.

WARNING: This is difficult to consider, so some may want to avoid reading on. I hate to even consider it.

IF the children are no longer alive, which authorities have said is likely if they wandered off so many days ago, then their remains would be decomposing, so wouldn't there also be other - natural - signs, such as scavenger birds gathering in trees and circling near remains? So, if nothing like that has been seen in the area, that could indicate that the children are inside a structure, or they are buried, or they are in a waterway (ETA: Or, they didn't wander off at all)? Wouldn't authorities also be looking for and asking people who live in the area about sightings of anything such as these?

ETA: I remember in the case of Hannah Graham, who went missing from the area around her college apartment, that a local had noticed scavenger birds gathering around a vacant home and property in the rural areas surrounding the more urban area from which she disappeared. And it was there where her body was found.

 

[Sarahlou]

Some have mentioned that no items belonging to the kids have been found - soiled diaper, boot, backpack, or the like. Those could be found whether the children are alive or have died.

WARNING: This is difficult to consider, so some may want to avoid reading on. I hate to even consider it.

IF the children are no longer alive, which authorities have said is likely if they wandered off so many days ago, then their remains would be decomposing, so wouldn't there also be other - natural - signs, such as scavenger birds gathering in trees and circling near remains? So, if nothing like that has been seen in the area, that could indicate that the children are inside a structure, or they are buried, or they are in a waterway? Wouldn't authorities also be looking for and asking people who live in the area about sightings of anything such as these?

ETA: I remember in the case of Hannah Graham, who went missing from the area around her college apartment, that a local had noticed scavenger birds gathering around a vacant home and property in the rural areas surrounding the more urban area from which she disappeared. And it was there where her body was found.

Good points. It is horrible to think about but I think their bodies have been very well hidden somewhere. Depending on when they actually went missing they could be much further away than people think.
The only possible chance they could be alive is if someone took them. Which is unlikely from what's been said.

 

[Diddian]

Good points. It is horrible to think about but I think their bodies have been very well hidden somewhere. Depending on when they actually went missing they could be much further away than people think.

I remember seeing a rapidly rushing (and somewhat muddy looking) stream in one of the photos taken during the search. So, if they are in a waterway (whether because they fell in or were put in), it is also possible that their bodies could be far downstream from where they may have entered that waterway.

I just hope that the current search is successful. And if not that, then forensics quickly leads to answers.

 

[Skigh]

Good points. It is horrible to think about but I think their bodies have been very well hidden somewhere. Depending on when they actually went missing they could be much further away than people think.
The only possible chance they could be alive is if someone took them. Which is unlikely from what's been said.

I think this new search is probably looking for signs of places the children could be hidden .

 

[Sarahlou]

I think this new search is probably looking for signs of places the children could be hidden .

Yes. Good luck to the search teams, I really hope they find them soon.

 

[ttjo]

Some have mentioned that no items belonging to the kids have been found - soiled diaper, boot, backpack, or the like. Those could be found whether the children are alive or have died.

WARNING: This is difficult to consider, so some may want to avoid reading on. I hate to even consider it.

IF the children are no longer alive, which authorities have said is likely if they wandered off so many days ago, then their remains would be decomposing, so wouldn't there also be other - natural - signs, such as scavenger birds gathering in trees and circling near remains? So, if nothing like that has been seen in the area, that could indicate that the children are inside a structure, or they are buried, or they are in a waterway (ETA: Or, they didn't wander off at all)? Wouldn't authorities also be looking for and asking people who live in the area about sightings of anything such as these?

ETA: I remember in the case of Hannah Graham, who went missing from the area around her college apartment, that a local had noticed scavenger birds gathering around a vacant home and property in the rural areas surrounding the more urban area from which she disappeared. And it was there where her body was found.

Im glad you mentioned that, it makes me confident that people know what they are doing out there and what to look for. Even if there are no birds circling, that is still information.

 

[Skigh]

Im glad you mentioned that, it makes me confident that people know what they are doing out there and what to look for. Even if there are no birds circling, that is still information.

I wish they would let us know if they have used or are using cadaver dogs in these searches.

 

[seasideForest]

Lilly and Jack, along with their mother Malehya Brooks-Murray and baby sister Meadow, moved to the community two years ago, into the childhood home of Daniel Martell, who describes himself as the missing children’s stepfather. The children’s biological father has no contact with them, according to their family.

Thanks for bringing up this Globe and Mail quote from May 10th. I was sure that the children's bio father had been mentioned as 'no contact' with them, in a reliable source.

Quite a lot of people further back in the thread were asking about bio father and I wrote I'd read 'no contact, not around'. It's hard to keep up with where you find things, especially for those of us who can't access a source like Globe and Mail regularly.

I wish that members new to a case would read back-threads to find this kind of information. This isn't a case where there are hundreds of back-threads to go through, there are only two so far in fact.

JMO

 

[MarcieM]

Nearly two years there was a major criminal investigation involving my son (he was the victim). We are Canadian and the investigation was conducted by the RCMP and Crown Counsel. Early in the investigation I was told very explicitly to not engage in specific types of online conduct. I was also directed to ensure my settings were sufficient enough to protect my privacy and that of my son (who was an incapacitated minor at the time). I suspect the mother may have been given similar instructions, either by her own counsel or RCMP.

Also consider that if police felt her Facebook acct had/has evidentiary value, they may have gotten a warrant to 'seize' that account for investigative purposes.

Good points. It is horrible to think about but I think their bodies have been very well hidden somewhere. Depending on when they actually went missing they could be much further away than people think.
The only possible chance they could be alive is if someone took them. Which is unlikely from what's been said.

Not to mention if DM has lived here his whole life, this whole area is basically his backyard and he probably knows about places that others don't.

 

[OhDannyBoi]

Thanks for bringing up this Globe and Mail quote from May 10th. I was sure that the children's bio father had been mentioned as 'no contact' with them, in a reliable source.

Quite a lot of people further back in the thread were asking about bio father and I wrote I'd read 'no contact, not around'. It's hard to keep up with where you find things, especially for those of us who can't access a source like Globe and Mail regularly.

I wish that members new to a case would read back-threads to find this kind of information. This isn't a case where there are hundreds of back-threads to go through, there are only two so far in fact.

JMO

It would be interesting to have a running thread that just compiles facts and citations - sort of like a living Wiki on the case as it unfolds where things can be consolidated, listed in an easy to follow format: like a timeline of events, major updates, background information, etc. Something updated with major info dumps that a new user can jump in on and quickly have an idea of the essential details as well as maybe a list of remaining questions not yet addressed?

 

[Andromeda]

The reported other 2 family members living on the property surely would have seen them and they have not come forward to report they have either which imo is telling give how vocal he is

I’m surprised how little support DM has had. Literally no one is seen standing beside or around him in any of his interviews. MBM left the home with their daughter to her mother's and blocked him in the immediate aftermath. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I didn’t see any reports about flyers or community volunteers in the first few days. It seems, the only ones broadcasting about Lilly and Jack were the RCMP who issued the vulnerable persons alerts and media who could extend their reach.

How often does asearch and rescue go from search and rescue to “abduction”? Wouldn’t the typical/expected process be 1) search and rescue, 2) recovery?

Per the linked CBC article below, "'[The RCMP were] taking statements from the very start. They just want to rule everything out before they switch … concerns from being, you know, search and rescue to abduction,' he said in a CBC News interview May 6."

In the same CBC article dated May 6th, the municipality’s mood was described as “tense”, not “worried” or “concerned” for Lilly and Jack, or “hopeful” or “anxious". IMO, this is an odd choice of words. This was before the RCMP announced they were scaling back on May 9th.

[…]'Robert Parker, the warden for the Municipality of Pictou County, said the mood in the rural region of roughly 43,000 people has been "tense" as the search continues’[…].

Maybe everyone feels they know what happened and are impatient for an announcement, but the RCMP have to dot every “i” and cross every “t” because they do not want to lose justice for Lilly and Jack on a technicality.

jmo/moo

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova...en-pictou-county-lily-jack-sullivan-1.7527613

 

[Sailor Bug]

Kevin MacLean, the president of Colchester Ground Search and Rescue, said the RCMP asked him to get his volunteers back together.
MacLean said Friday he was figuring out where searchers would look this weekend.

"It's more than likely to be recovery," he said.

MacLean said the search would focus on areas that didn't get covered "as well as the search teams would have liked to have seen them covered before." https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova...ing-from-pictou-county-home-resumes-1.7537354

 

[iamafiusny]

Maybe everyone feels they know what happened and are impatient for an announcement, but the RCMP have to dot every “i” and cross every “t” because they do not want to lose justice for Lilly and Jack on a technicality.

Rsbm

This is exactly how I've been feeling since the beginning.

Moo

 

[Diddian]

I’m surprised how little support DM has had. Literally no one is seen standing beside or around him in any of his interviews. MBM left the home with their daughter to her mother's and blocked him in the immediate aftermath. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I didn’t see any reports about flyers or community volunteers in the first few days. It seems, the only ones broadcasting about Lilly and Jack were the RCMP who issued the vulnerable persons alerts and media who could extend their reach.

How often does asearch and rescue go from search and rescue to “abduction”? Wouldn’t the typical/expected process be 1) search and rescue, 2) recovery?

Per the linked CBC article below, "'[The RCMP were] taking statements from the very start. They just want to rule everything out before they switch … concerns from being, you know, search and rescue to abduction,' he said in a CBC News interview May 6."

In the same CBC article dated May 6th, the municipality’s mood was described as “tense”, not “worried” or “concerned” for Lilly and Jack, or “hopeful” or “anxious". IMO, this is an odd choice of words. This was before the RCMP announced they were scaling back on May 9th.

[…]'Robert Parker, the warden for the Municipality of Pictou County, said the mood in the rural region of roughly 43,000 people has been "tense" as the search continues’[…].

Maybe everyone feels they know what happened and are impatient for an announcement, but the RCMP have to dot every “i” and cross every “t” because they do not want to lose justice for Lilly and Jack on a technicality.

jmo/moo

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova...en-pictou-county-lily-jack-sullivan-1.7527613

BBM. You may have been aware, but it was unclear to me until I clicked on the link. The statement I have bolded was attributed to DM, not a spokesman for RCMP.

So, it cannot be assumed that it accurately represents RCMP's position.

That may have been your point, but I didn't get it until I became aware those were DM's words.

 

[Andromeda]

This report is interesting for what it is not saying.
Officials have never said there are any independent sightings of the children after they were last seen at school..
To our Canadian members wouldn't the RCMP state the children were last seen by a neighbor or last seen by another relative if this were the case? What would be the reason for officials to withhold this type of information if true?
IMO there are no other independent sightings of the kids. BUT, just because there was no independent sighting of the kids doesnt mean anything nefarious IMO. Since they lived in such a rural area there is a good chance that rarely anyone else saw the kids outside of school unless the kids went with the parents to do shopping or to visit other people.
No independent sighting of the kids could mean nothing or it could be a huge clue.
This case is making me lose what little is left of my mind.
Tricia

Bbm

I think their reluctance to share any details whatsoever, especially “last seen” information, stems from the opportunity for someone to circle back around and cover tracks. IMO, the last seen time is so sensitive it is razor focused.

What I feel certain about is, just going by the time, effort and resources they were using to try and locate Lilly and Jack, they believed there was a chance one or both could be found alive.

JMO/MOO